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Message started by klx650sm2002 on 11/02/04 at 03:22:59

Title: Spark plug
Post by klx650sm2002 on 11/02/04 at 03:22:59

I'm going to go on about spark plugs again, strongly reccommended is the iridium if you can find/afford one, if not platinum comes a close second.
They can be gapped at max std or + 4 thou and will give better starting,response,torque and power.
The down side is the price.
I got mine for christmas last year !!!

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Greg_650 on 11/02/04 at 03:50:30

klx650sm2002 wrote:

Might make a good ornament on your Christmas tree ::)

You really like those plugs, eh?

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by klx650sm2002 on 11/02/04 at 03:54:05

Yes I do.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Greg_650 on 11/02/04 at 04:54:24

Well, okay. I've decided to try some different "things" this winter. My general rule has been to do what I know works, but others seem to think some (unproven to me) products are beneficial. So....

I will explore the use of some of these "performance" plugs. I don't have any reason to expect any difference, but a new plug can't hurt. So why not? If you recommend it, I'll give it a go.

As well, in the 4 years since I experienced clutch slippage with synthetic oil it appears that more and more manufacturers are producing oils that clearly state compatibility with motorcycle wet plate clutches. That was NOT the case when I last tried it. So this time around, I'll try that again too.

I already have new filters anyway.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by klx650sm2002 on 11/03/04 at 07:20:22

I'd be interested in what You learn about oils.
Thanks.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Greg_650 on 11/03/04 at 07:56:27

First thing that I learned is that they taste bad.....

....oops that was a really long time ago :D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Savage_Rob on 11/03/04 at 10:39:55

FYI...

I just went out to www.ngk.com and the appropriate NGK iridium plug for the Savage is the DPR8EIX-9. I was planning on changing my plug out and adjusting valves sometime in the next couple of months, so I thought I'd try the iridium.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Greg_650 on 11/03/04 at 13:12:21

Savage_Rob wrote:

They better work, or there'll be 2 of us doing a little "Kaw tippin'" in England, I think" ;D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by klx650sm2002 on 11/04/04 at 04:05:21

Same part number as the KLX.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/04/04 at 10:58:11

How about a Bosch Platinum +4. About $6.00, suppose to be the greatest plug since cotton candy Just install, no gapping necessary or required.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/04/04 at 11:36:17

I've contacted Bosch USA to see if they make a plug for the Savage/S40 application. I'll let you know how I make out.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Savage_Rob on 11/04/04 at 12:03:11

NGK also makes platinum plugs but, according to what I've read on their site, iridium is considered far superior. They have a Spark Plug 411 (http://www.ngk.com/sparkplug411.asp?kw=Iridium&mfid=1) that is pretty interesting. The iridium plugs I ordered were $6.95 each.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/04/04 at 12:20:46

Iridium? $6.95? Don't sound like a bad deal to me considering that you only change plug once a year, max. How many ground electrode does it have? The easiest path to ground is the one of least resistance, so if a plug has 4 electrodes any one of them will be the path of least resistance but not always the same one, consequently having the optimum spark at all times.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Savage_Rob on 11/04/04 at 13:06:50

Sgt_Mike wrote:

How many ground electrode does it have? The easiest path to ground is the one of least resistance, so if a plug has 4 electrodes any one of them will be the path of least resistance but not always the same one, consequently having the optimum spark at all times.

It has a single ground electrode and they cover that topic (http://www.ngk.com/sparkplug411.asp?kw=Multi%2Dground&mfid=1) too, though they state multi-ground plugs often perform worse than others unless in an engine designed specifically for them. I don't think I've ever actually seen one in real life but I've never worked on anything but fairly basic engines either. To that point, I'm so easily impressed that when I spent some time one summer as a teenager working on Mac trucks, I thought glo-plugs and timed fuel distribution (vs spark distribution) on a diesel engine were just neater 'n hell. I still think it's kinda cool.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Greg_650 on 11/04/04 at 16:24:11

Could I see a picture of Iridium, please?

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/04/04 at 16:59:28

Therefore a multi-ground plug will not perform any better and may actually perform worse than a traditional plug, unless the engine is designed for a multiple ground plug.

The above statement is from the NGK website

I dont believe that engineers design an engine around a spark plug. I do believe that spark plugs are designed to fit the application based on the technical data of the engine.

I base my statement on the fact that we at Mack Trucks Power Train Plant ask vendors to design fuel injectors, turbos and sensors to fit our application and not the other way around.

So, if the spark plug is designed to fit the application, a 4 ground electrode plug will out perform and out last a single ground plug designed to fit the same application.

I've had a set of 4 ground electrode plugs in my car for over a year and approx 17,000 miles now and they perform great. But then again, they were designed for the application.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Savage_Rob on 11/04/04 at 20:03:06

Yup, that's part of what I read there. I don't know. I don't design engines and multi-ground plugs were news to me just today. I am just reading and passing it along; that's why I included links in the previous posts. My take from the NGK site was that some combustion chambers (they specifically mentioned rotary engines) were designed in such a way as to require the ground electrode to be to the side of the center electrode instead of below/above it like traditional plugs. They said that this tends to hasten erosion and lengthen gaps, causing misfires (if built with a single ground). The idea behind having multiple grounds is to prolong the plug life by by spreading that erosion around between them. At least that's how I understand their description of the purpose in the design.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Savage_Rob on 11/04/04 at 20:24:01

Greg_650 wrote:

Could I see a picture of Iridium, please?

They have "illustrations (http://www.ngk.com/sparkplug411.asp?kw=Ultra%2Dfine&mfid=1)" of the various plug features on their site but when mine arrive on Monday or Tuesday, I'll post a photo. I gather the main thing is that a standard plug has a 2.5mm center electrode, the platinum is 1.1mm, and the iridium is 0.7mm. Thaey say this reduces the voltage necessary to jump the gap and also reduces what they called "quenching". While you may already know the term, I did not. For anyone else to whom it's new, it is explained on their site at the above link better than if I tried to repeat what I read.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by PRH111 on 11/04/04 at 22:13:59

All of the +4 and +2 plugs are designed the same with just a gap that matches the application. They do not specifically design each plug for every possible head/engine combination on the market.

Benefits: if one path has more resistance there are still other paths for a spark to fire. You don't have to worry about "indexing" the plug to face the opening towards the inlet for best combustion.

Disadvantages: multiple electrodes will increase resistance to the spreading flame front (more than the singular electrode does). You CAN'T index the plug for planning the best ignition point in reference to the inlet.

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/05/04 at 05:39:01

PRH, your statement is correct because many engines from different manufacturers have the same characteristics therefore the spark plug requirements are the same. You can't index the plug for the best spark, you don't need to, electricity always seeks the path of least resistance to ground, the plug will index by itself. Rob, you also are right, the rotary engine is a totally different animal, it required a 2 electrode plug because the combustion chambers were/are lubricated by a engine oil mister which tends to foul a plug. I guess this topic can be controversial, like engine oil or tires, or wax, etc, etc. Have a great day .

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/09/04 at 04:21:18

Hope this helped.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Spark plug
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/09/04 at 05:29:47

What I am sugesting with the DPR8EIX-9 is to turn it into a DPR8EIX-10, ie go from 9/10ths of a mm plug gap to 10/10ths of a mm gap, or 36 to 40 thou.

Clive W :D