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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> stalling and hesitation /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1113012296 Message started by tarheel365 on 04/08/05 at 19:04:56 |
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Title: stalling and hesitation Post by tarheel365 on 04/08/05 at 19:04:56 i came up w/ two issues today... 1) after warming the bike up w/ the choke partially out....the bike stalled out. after 5 minutes and fiddling around w/ the idle speed and mixture screws(i turned it in a half a turn) it finally started and ran. I did a quick 3 mile ride around the area and found... 2) that in 2nd gear i was gettin a bit of hesitation while accelerating almost as if it was about to run out of gas...but then I would shift up to 3rd and it would run fine. (by hesitation i mean that during acceleration the bike didn't accelerate in a consistent manner...like i was pumping the throttle) my questions are why did it stall out? and why is it hesitating during acceleration in 2nd. never got to test it out in 3rd gear cuz of traffic. bike ran perfect aside from those issues. i also left it uncovered while it was raining but i don't think that has anything to do w/ the issues(but u never know). And it ran perfectly before it rained. thanks |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by lagagnon on 04/08/05 at 19:50:14 hmmmm ....I had a similar problem, especially the 2nd gear hesitation stuff and conking out when one of the battery terminals was slightly loose. Just an idea... Larry |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Greg_650 on 04/09/05 at 07:09:30 tarheel365 wrote:
At what point did you turn off the choke? What I read is that you warmed it up with a partial choke, it stalled, you messed with the mixture and idle, it started, you rode it, it hesitated, and you went home....no where do you mention turning off the choke. Uncovered in the rain shouldn't hurt anything besides the appearance |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by tarheel365 on 04/09/05 at 13:16:40 oops i turned the choke off after the bike died. by then the engine was warmed up. at first i was only able to start it while turning the throttle a lil. happened this afternoon again. the bike started fine this morning, and this time I pullled out the choke all the way and let it warm up for like a minute then turned the choke off. on my way to work....no hesistation bike ran perfect. after work, i turned on the choke for like 10 seconds to start the bike and warm it up. then i turned it off and rode out....at the stop light my revs started to go back down and it stalled out. i managed to start it again while turning the throttle. i had to maintain a lil pressure on the throttle to keep it from stalling and i could feel hesistation during 2nd gear for only a little bit....after about 5 minutes i could let go of the throttle and it would idle fine. oh yah! while I was trying to start it at the stop light(it was red....thank goodness) turning the choke on did not help at all..... am i running too lean or rich? upon shutting off the bike i got a lil backfire.....not too loud just a nice pop. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by WD on 04/09/05 at 13:46:18 Lean, back the mixture screw out 1/4-1/2 turn over where it is set now. Thumpers shake hard enogh where sometimes pieces can seem to change settings at random or at will. -WD |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Greg_650 on 04/10/05 at 08:01:15 Thought so.... Since you found the issue with the choke (leaving it on too long) now you may need to put the other adjustments back the way they were in the beginning of all this. Adjust the air screw to the highest idle speed, and then adjust the idle speed back down to about 1200 (lowest smooth running speed, if you don't have a tach) |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by william Hutt on 05/04/05 at 08:50:28 I have the same problem with my bike. Mine is intermmittent. I can ride all morning long no problems, then when I get back on it in the afternoon, i'll be riding along about 45MPH start to feel some bucking(surges) as though its not getting gas pull in the clutch and it dies. I then have a hard time starting it. I have tried high octain gas, no help. Remove white spacer and adjusted carb, no help. Found a bad spark plug, replaced it, Problem still there. Replaced ignition module(ignitor), Problem still there. Reversed the white spacer and carb adjustments due to black smoke produced after the spark plug was replaced, smoke went away but problem still there. I am starting to think that maybe the fuel filter in the tank may be getting restricted or trash in the carb bowl. Anyone have any other ideas? |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by sunny on 05/04/05 at 09:34:22 unless you added a fuel filter there isn't one. it does sound like a loose electrical connection. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by russ_g on 05/04/05 at 10:10:16 While i didn't have the exact problems you're having it may be worth checking the diaphram and or the "plunger" in the carb. In my case the plunger had some gunk built up on it that was restricting it's movement. Mine was intermittent as well. I just removed it and cleaned it up with some gas and it's been fine ever since. Or you might want to check the diaphram closely for a small hole. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Reelthing on 05/04/05 at 10:10:41 william Hutt wrote:
Easy thing to check is the connections to the coil, these connectors can get a bit lose and cause odd running however as described and since you have had the diaphragm/slide out of the carb this sounds like a hanging slide to me. It dies and is hard to start when you pull in the clutch because it floods the engine because the slide did not close the needle jet as much as it should because the slide is hanging toward the bottom of it's travel because the spring the was not centered on the cover, or the slide was a little dirty, say from oil on your hands, when it was reinstalled or the rubber was not seated correctly in the grove. I would pull the slide back out of the carb and with a clean paper towel rub it down real clean and wipe out the tube the slide fits in - if that paper towel is dirty when your done it'd bet that was the root issue - this does get worse was the bike gets hotter - I guess the slide expands more than the aluminum tube it fits in and the tolerance closes. Chased this down twice now you'd think I'd learn! |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Mr 650 on 05/04/05 at 10:26:00 switch on Carl-from-Slingblade-voice emm...Ain't got no gaes in it, switch on the reserve ..sorry I couldn't resist, ;D tarheel365 wrote:
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by William Hutt on 05/05/05 at 06:00:04 I believe it is the vaccum line to the gas thingy and this is why. I was riding last night when it started stalling and hesitating. I reached down and put the tank on prime, this bypasses the vaccum line which is required on reserve and main settings. In other words, no vaccum no gas on those two settings. It took mabey 10 seconds and I was rolling again. I switch the tank back to main several more times and ended up switching back to prime to keep me rolling. If nothing else its repeatable. I am going replace the vaccum line and see if that helps. I am thinking(hoping) that the line is colapsing from heat or age. The bike is a 1998. Any thoughts? The above was done on a full tank of gas, gas filter cleaned, flushed gas tank, added clear gas line to make sure gas was getting to carb, Cleaned vent holes in gas cap, made sure vaccum line was open on carb end, made sure I could not suck gas from the gas thingy end, and carb vaccum line to gas thingy secured. If your wounder if there was gas in the line when it started acting up the answer is yes. Remember when you where a kid and you stuck a straw down in a glass of water then put your finger tip over the end then pulled the straw out of the glass. The water would stay in the straw until you took you finger off the end. The same thing appears to be happening here. When the gas thingy is on Main or Res it requires that the finger be removed(vaccum present) to let the gas flow. This explains why there can be gas in the line but can't get into the carb when there is no vaccum present at the gas thingy No Vaccum at gas thingy = Finger over end of straw. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Mr 650 on 05/06/05 at 07:01:14 switch on Carl-from-Slingblade-voice Ya reckon it was suckin flat? Needs a new 'un. ah-ight den ;D |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by woodworker on 05/06/05 at 14:51:25 sunny wrote:
I'm sorry Sunny, but Mr. Hutt is right. There is a built in fuel filter inside the gas tank attached to the end of the petc*ck |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Reelthing on 05/06/05 at 15:02:54 As well as a little screen in the carb above float needle - but I've not had to go that far into the carb yet - |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by william hutt on 05/09/05 at 06:31:48 Since my last post I have done the following: Remove the petcock and cleaned the filter and gas tank. There was some residual rust from the tank at the base of the filter but I did not see anything which would restrick the gas flow. Replace the vaccum line. When neither of those improved the bikes performance. I removed the carburator and disassembled it. Cleaned and soaked with carb cleaner even thought the card looked new on the inside. The filter on the inside of the carb was clean no rust ect. I inspected each component of the carb as I reassembled it. I found the "Pilot Air Jet" to be completely blocked. I removed the blockage reassemble and road about 100 - 150 miles with out any problems that couldn't be fixed without adjusting the choke. Got back on it last night, the problem showed back up when the throttle position was 1/8 to 1/4 turn. If I open the throttle I have good response. With the throttle position between 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I adjusted the choke from full to half. It would get better for about 30 sec. then it got worse. Adjusted the choke again back to full, better then worse. Swiching from main to pri on the petcock reduced the stalling/hesitation but, didn't get rid of it completely. I could still feel a small amount. Swiched back to main and the stalling/hesitation got worse. After riding for 20 to 30 min the choke was off, the petcock position was in the main position, the stalling/hesitation felt like it did when the petcock was in the pri position. The bike was running good again. I adjusted the pilot screw an additional 1/2 turn out from base at one point in this adventure thinking that it would affect the running of the bike when the throttle position was between 0 and 1/4 turn. It kinda sorta did help a little. I am wondering what part of the carb circuit affects the bikes performance between 0 and 1/4 turn on the throttle. The pilot screw does for idle. Does the needle position(white spacer) have an affect how the bike performs between 0 and 1/4 turn? I am wounder if adjusting the white spacer thickness will reduce the stalling/hesitation 0 and 1/4 turn. I also noticed that the stalling/hesitation seems to occure when it is a little cool out. Any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by sunny on 05/09/05 at 07:23:22 woodworker wrote:
i stand corrected. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by klx650sm2002 on 05/09/05 at 08:17:00 On my FCR mix up to 1/4 throttle is dominated by the parallel portion of the needle. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by william hutt on 05/09/05 at 14:44:34 I just got back from another test ride in which the bike ran great. The only difference was in where the choke was set. In my previous post I wrote that it was set to full, half and no choke. I looked at the choke knob in those positions only to discover that what I was calling full choke didn't quite look right. The ring(not literally) on the choke shaft was on the outside of the rubber boot. I don't think that this is a valid choke setting but can't find any detail information on the BS40 Mukuni to confirm this. I then pushed the choke all the way in and then proceeded to pull it out until I felt the first click(what I called half choke). I started the bike and it ran great. I pushed the choke knob in all the way after a couple of mile(when the rpms didn't drop as fast as I thought they should when I pulled the clutch in to change gears). Is there only 2 choke positions on(1st click) and off(pushed all the way in)? This would kind of co-inside with clymer calling the choke a starter system(bottom of Pg 188). |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by william hutt on 05/09/05 at 14:46:26 Bottom of page 188 of the clymer manual. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by nabulldog on 05/09/05 at 14:50:06 Its page 186. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by WD on 05/09/05 at 22:26:20 The Mikuni BS40 is a hunk of junk. You should have 3 or 4 choke settings in addition to off (no choke). Run a couple tanks of fuel with 2-3 ounces of two stroke oil mixed in. If the bike runs better, your problem is the all too common "galled" AKA "FUBAR" carb slide. The newer replacements have a better nitride coating than the older (pre-2K) ones. -WD Don't get the wrong impression, other than the carb, I pretty much love my 98 custom. Oh, and change the fuel and vacuum lines at least once a year. Cheap insurance. And run two stroke oil at least every other tank. Or else. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by william hutt on 05/10/05 at 05:42:43 Has anyone replace there BS40 with another type of Carb? If so, what was the carb and how is it performance? An Ebay seller has a performance carb for sell, has anyone tried this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35597&item=4548966265&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW#ebayphotohosting Has anyone replace their petcock with a different type( honda, kaw, yam, ect)? I have been looking for a replacement only to find I can't find the same one. I guess the dealer the only one that has it. Thanks for the two cycle oil suggestion I'll give it a try. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by woodworker on 05/10/05 at 06:01:08 WD wrote:
Hey WD; I got the impression from one of your previous posts that you did not work on carbs! My "Hunk of Junk" BS40SS constant velocity carb has given me absolutely flawless, maintenance free service for the past 20 years. Since I rebuilt the engine and added some modifications: i.e. Punched out cylinder and installed .120" oversized piston, Installed large K&N pod filter, opened up exhaust and installed very free flowing (tuneable) muffler, I had no choice but to rejet the carb. Through small increment increases in main jet, pilot jet, and pilot air jet sizes, and raising of the jet needle in .025" increments, and most important of all - READING A NEW PLUG - after each test drive, was I able to "PROPERLY" dial in the carb. All of this applies to any make of roundslide or flatslide constant velocity carb. As a point of interest, the following is what I ended up with: main jet - #175, pilot jet - #52.5, pilot air jet - #75 midrange jet needle raised .085" Nothing in town will touch it up to 150 km/hr. including stage 4 HD's (that is as fast as I've had it up to and it still pulls like hell at that speed) All I'm saying here is that if you take the time, and take advantage of all the resources available on the web, the Mikuni (roundslide) BS40SS constant velocity carb can be dialed in and compete easily with any of the newer generation flatslide carbs, including Khein, Edelbrock, Mikuni, etc. The BS40 has been used in the Savage since day one! Why change a good thing. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Savage_Rob on 05/10/05 at 06:11:35 william hutt wrote:
That's Lancer. He was selling those carbs on The Marketplace forum on this site over the past weekend to give us first shot before he posted on eBay yesterday. He also sells pretuned Edelbrocks sometimes. He can probably answer your questions about it. I think Bobo ordered one of the Amals too, so you'll be able to hear from him how well he likes it. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by WD on 05/10/05 at 07:55:39 I've opened up 4 BS40s in the past week. No choice, they were customer carbs. Every single one of them had a galled slide. 2 1998, 1 1996, one 1995. Ended up sending them to the Internet to order replacements, as the Suzuki dealer closest to work is horrible. They carry Suzuki, Honda, and Polaris. They know the Honda and Polaris stuff real well, but their Suzuki customers are treated terribly. What ever happened to normal motorcycle carbs? With a throttle butterfly flap and no slide? Like old Linkerts? Or Del'orto, Weber, SU, most S&S? Or the cable operated slide Amals? Mikuni has made some very good carbs in the past, but even the big bikes that run modern Mikunis have stumbling issues. Dollar for dollar, if you're going to run a CV carb, the Keihin units are better quality than the Mikunis. As for the fuel tap, the VS800 Intruder mechanical unit should be a direct swap. FWIW though, even the one replaced under RECALL on my wife's Intruder leaks, and it is the "updated" version that shouldn't leak. As for working on the carb, if you have the patience to go through the needle swap and test procedure(s), more power to you. My 98 pops like it is lean, but the plug comes out showing rich. ??? Who knows, I sure don't. -WD |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by sunny on 05/10/05 at 09:05:31 as to lean vs. rich. you're right, i think it's both though i have no clue why. i had fouled plugs often. but doing the airmix adjustment AND the jet swap fixes the backfire and eliminates the plug fouling. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by william hutt on 05/31/05 at 09:34:48 I have found my problem to be the vaccum petcock. For the past 2 - 3 weeks I have had the petcock in the Pri(prime) position. That position doesn't require vaccum to allow fuel to flow into the carb. I have not had any stalling or hesitation problems since I did this. I have modified my petcock in accordance with the following forum link and am still problelm free. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1113631600;start=3#3 |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by lancer on 05/31/05 at 22:30:54 WD wrote:
The Amal's are alive, and running well. As for running lean and popping, and having a plug that looks rich...the popping is from a lean pilot system, and the rich looking plug from the needle and main jet system. |
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Title: Re: stalling and hesitation Post by Reelthing on 06/01/05 at 07:27:13 WD wrote:
You change out that air filter yet? I believe it was called filthy |
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