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Message started by mikedasavage on 06/28/05 at 17:25:05

Title: Green Light Trigger
Post by mikedasavage on 06/28/05 at 17:25:05

anyone know if this really works? cus man i sure hate those left turn signals ;D i sat at one for five lights till i decided to pop a U and cut through a parking lot.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4558458582&category=34284

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/28/05 at 17:55:28

I found a bar magnet glued to the bottom of my bike - I think it's one of those things... I don't think it does squat.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by red2k1 on 06/28/05 at 20:37:49

I have one of those things and Savage_Rob is correct. It is a magnet and "it doesn't do squat." You need a stronger magnet.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by mikedasavage on 06/28/05 at 20:41:15

well thats great to know

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by sluggo on 06/28/05 at 21:08:12

mikedasavage wrote:

well thats great to know

it's been discussed ad nausem and no they don't work.

if you wait more than one cycle, just go. explain it to the judge.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by vroom1776 on 06/29/05 at 08:32:51

red2k1 wrote:

You need a stronger magnet.

So, would a really strong magnet work?

I can get grade N35 to N42 (b]really[/b] strong) magnets of various sizes (some cheap, some not so). Pretty much N32 and above can break your hands or fingers if you are not careful with them... I've thought of sticking a spare N37, 4" diameter to the bottom of the my savage to see if it works (and yes, I did nearly brake my fingers [twice! ouch!] with just one of these guys..)... Maybe I'll try it out and report back...

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by bentwheel on 06/29/05 at 08:45:44

Hey if you are going to use a really powerful magnet under there, be sure and check it for loose change. ;D

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/29/05 at 09:00:23

bentwheel wrote:

Hey if you are going to use a really powerful magnet under there, be sure and check it for loose change. ;D

And maybe store some spare tools too!

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by vroom1776 on 06/29/05 at 10:48:05

Actually, I was also wondering if it could have any benefit for pulling loose chunks or metal to the bottom of the engine... good or bad?

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/29/05 at 11:09:17

vroom1776 wrote:

Actually, I was also wondering if it could have any benefit for pulling loose chunks or metal to the bottom of the engine... good or bad?

Actually, there are a couple of things for that on the market. One I've seen for the Savage/S40 is the Magnetic Drain Plug (http://www.magneticdrainplug.com/). The guy selling those has pledged to donate $1 for each one sold to this site in another thread. Another, though I haven't seen it for the Savage/S40 is a magnetic ball that fits into the oil filters on some bikes.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by mikedasavage on 06/29/05 at 11:52:58

I'll explain it to the judge and he'll say you darn motorcycle riders think you are special? i dont care if you had to wait 10 lights the law is the law. ;D nah i dont know i think an austin judge would be ok with it but a williamson county judge would have me excuted.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by SavageDude on 06/29/05 at 17:55:52

mikedasavage wrote:

It does work only if you know how; but you have to look down on the ground and find those d**n magnetic loops which suppose to turn on the light :-/

These loops can be either square, rectangle, circles or whatever shape the guy/gal want to lay them down on the road. You have to somehow riding that tiny magnet over right of left of the longest edge of the loop ::)

But with enough pratice, it can be accomplished instead of taking chance of getting a ticket for running the red light(a few hundred bucks >:( ouccccccch.

SavageDude

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by sluggo on 06/29/05 at 18:34:29

it has been my experiece that you can,
a. convince the cop not to write 8)
b. tell it to the judge, he/she will generally let of. ;D
c. go back to offending intersection, with video camera document the lack of turn cycle, plead not guilt, get let off. ;)
d. send footage to local/state department of transportation and request readjustment, this if it's near your home and you use the interstection often. >:(

an associate at the dot here in washington, just laffed when i mentioned the magnets, and said he wished he would have invented them. they don't work but, a good money maker for the inventor though.

personally i don't give it a moments thought. wait one cycle then go. i have and will use my social skills if caught.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by WD on 06/29/05 at 19:21:20

Just run it. I used to use my headlight to force the light to change, but, that trick isn't working anymore. >:(

Be careful if you add a powerful magnet to the undercarriage of the bike. This thing is CDI fired...CDI is a small computer...computer plus magnet equals something bad...
-WD

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Jim_R on 06/29/05 at 22:43:31

yeah i was thinking some magnetic field wouldnt be too good for any electronics on the frame or regulating the engine.

i've seen the magnet thingy and even some form of remote u point at the light. i doubt they work at all.

I have even been ignored by the light sometimes several cycles in a row. I turned around and went another way. Honestly I dont think anything is worth a ticket. Find a way around, besides ur having a good time on ur bike right? why spoil it with some ticket that u'll have to pay when u could spend that $ on some of lancer's items 8)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by sluggo on 06/30/05 at 01:13:01

look at it this way. if you've sat an intersection alone through several cycles, there aint' no cop around to ticket ya. and oh what an exciting feeling civil disobedience can be..

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 06/30/05 at 07:54:47

Okay....this subject was discussed in another topic. Don't remember where. Anyway....

I know the problem well, as I've sat at busy intersections with cars waiting behind me, and I've gone so far as to wave for the cars to pull up over the roadway sensor wire behind me....and I have just run the light a few times, too.

First, the green light trigger is a magnet. Yep. And it is fastened under the bike, too. It is one of those things that I wish that I had dreamed up, because people will buy them and I'd be laughing all the way to the bank :) Of course, people won't buy more than one when they find out it doesn't really help....but if you sell just one to every biker...hmmm. Eventually it will go the way of the pet rock.

Second, a magnet will not effect the bike's ignition system...unless it is a good bit more powerful. But in that case, you'd be pulling man hole covers out of the street... Don't worry about that....

Third, here is the real truth....for when you get to the point that you want to run the red light. The wire in the roadway is part of a sensor that uses an electrical property called the "Hall Effect" (if my old mind remembers correctly). What that means is this....there is electrial current in that buried wire and when current flows it creates a magnetic field in that area. Then when something electrically conductive passes through this magnetic field, the magnetic field strength is changed which also effects the current flow in the wire. This change in current flow (though really small) is detected by transistorized devices in a box somewhere which in turn triggers the traffic light change....but a motorcycle doesn't always have enough mass to create enough change. So what can you do?

Try this....Grab the kill switch! Kill the engine and restart the bike. Yep. As the starter runs, the electrical current from the battery, starter relay, and starter motor will create your very own magnetic "pulse".... and your magnetic pulse will interrupt and effect the roadway sensor. Works most of the time...

....and, of course, for those few moments that nothing seems to work....look both ways, and run that darned light. As they say, "it is often easier to ask for forgiveness, then to ask for permission"

8)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by vroom1776 on 06/30/05 at 08:47:09

It's actually not the Hall effect (though the Hall effect realated to magnetism), it is the Faraday effect, for anyone who cares what it's called. Basically it's what Greg 650 said.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 06/30/05 at 09:56:49

vroom1776 wrote:

It's actually not the Hall effect (though the Hall effect realated to magnetism), it is the Faraday effect, for anyone who cares what it's called. Basically it's what Greg 650 said.

I care. Refresh my rusty memory, please. I work with sensors all the time, but might need an update. Didn't Faraday work with electro-magnets? Geez, it's all getting fuzzy.....

Hey, maybe I can call this the "Greg Effect"....what a starter motor does to a traffic light sensor. I'll be rich and famous 8)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/30/05 at 11:10:29

Faraday Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_effect)

Hall Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by vroom1776 on 06/30/05 at 17:09:28

Alright don't want to get into a mess...

the equation that governs the change in current due to a change in magnetic filed is the the Faraday equation (the "curl" of electric filed = charge density + change in Magentic induction with time (more or less). The curl basically means what it sounds like... Basically this equation says that a changing magnetic field (in time) causes a voltage which in turn causes a current to flow if a wire is nearby. The change in current within the buried wire is what is measured and triggers the green light

A hall probe measures magnetic field and gives out a voltage due to the hall effect (see above). The greg described it above does not involve a hall probe... ugh. don't want to start a flame war...

Magnetism, electricity, and time (and space, and the weak force) are inextricably interwoven

Try this to see what the heck we are talking about: get a permanent magnet (NOT a refridgerator magnet), an insulated wire, and an amp meter (sometimes call ammeters (sp?) or galvanometer... a DMM should work too). Actually, a small light bulb should work too... Make the wire into a bunch of closely packed coils like a spring. Move the magnet back in forth in there and watch the light flash! Note: if it doesn't work, or barely works, rotate the magnet to a different side and try again... this is essentially how one generates electricity... spin a magnet inside a coil.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by sluggo on 06/30/05 at 17:31:10

vroom1776 wrote:

MOVE TO STRIKE YOUR HONOR AS UNRESPONSIVE, THE QUESTION WAS AND IS. DO GREEN LIGHT TRIGGERS ACTUALLY WORK.

ONE ;D FOR YES
ONE :( FOR NO
ONE 8) IF YOU PRACTICE THE AGE OLD TRADITION OF CIVIL DISOBIEDENCE.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/30/05 at 17:37:56

.....and the square-root of pi multiplied by the speed of dirt equals the temperature of yesterday's leftover mashed potatoes.....

Yeah, yeah, haven't read any of that stuff since BE/E school in the Navy.

Ride, just ride.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by sluggo on 06/30/05 at 17:57:03

Savage_Rob wrote:

.....and the square-root of pi multiplied by the speed of dirt equals the temperature of yesterday's leftover mashed potatoes...

r u dissin my dearly departed mama's mashed po tae toes.

thems be fighting words round here.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by vroom1776 on 07/01/05 at 08:44:30

Hahaha...

8) Civil Disobedience...

Just tryin' to figure out how this stuff works so we can determine if they do work! ....so we ride, just ride!

Anyway, I put the largest & stongest permanent magnet I had on the bottom of my savage. I haven't seen any definite results yet, but I will post when I have made a reasonable "study" of the situation...

Jed: "Boy, you been goin' to school. Say somethin' smart, say somethin' mathmatical."

Jethro: "pi r squared." (pi * r^2)

Jed: "I gotta disagree; cornbread are squared, pie are round."

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Paula71 on 07/01/05 at 17:25:47

Hey what ever causes the electrical mashed potatoes or square pie, hitting the kill switch and restartin her just worked for me!! woo hoo I aint waitin at that one no more. nuh uh ;)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by mikedasavage on 07/01/05 at 17:38:15

yea i acutally tried that last night and i'm not sure if it worked or if it was the car behind me. I came up to the light hit the switch and the dont walk signs started flashing (usually means the light is going to change) then a car pulled up so not sure yet.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Paula71 on 07/01/05 at 17:52:06

mikedasavage wrote:

No car behind me or across the way, so I feel like it was my Thumper to trigger it this time, usually I rely on someone pullin up. One time may not be enough to be sure but I will be back to that one soon

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Frost on 07/01/05 at 21:01:58

8) Life's too short..(be safe too) :P

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/02/05 at 06:36:02

sluggo wrote:

r u dissin my dearly departed mama's mashed po tae toes.

thems be fighting words round here.

Can't we have an intelligent, stimulating, educational, and spirited discussion from time to time? Is it so bad to learn something occassionally? Is the search for truth and understanding lost in this forum?

Geez, you guys all sound like a bunch of bikers ;D

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/02/05 at 06:50:44

vroom1776 wrote:

Believe it or not, I got an "A" in my daughter's science project several years ago with this very same experiment.....

....to clarify what you mean. I though the "Hall Effect" was different than a "Hall Probe" as in the effect that a conducting material has on an existing magnetic field. We know that current flow in a wire, creates a magnetic field, but this is about how other objects effect that field when they pass through it....

In our case these roadway sensors are designed (and calibrated?) to sense cars with their big steel chassis and more powerful electrical systems, but bikes have a smaller "foot print" and are often made of materials that are non-magnetic...aluminum and plastic. So their effect is much less...below some transistor base, I guess.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/02/05 at 07:09:16

Paula71 wrote:

Hey what ever causes the electrical mashed potatoes or square pie, hitting the kill switch and restartin her just worked for me!! woo hoo I aint waitin at that one no more. nuh uh ;)

There you go....straight to the results. Who cares why, as long as it works? That is what I had intended, before we started probing square potato roots and mashing our Pies.

It does work. Maybe not ALL the time, but it does work. Sometimes it may have to do with your position over the sensor, and whether you are in the center, over a wire, or partially beyond it. But at least this gives you one option to try, before you run the light....

Of course, if you eat a lot of pie and taters before you ride that may also help....anyone tried flatulence, yet?

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by sluggo on 07/02/05 at 14:41:29

Greg_650 wrote:

Of course, if you eat a lot of pie and taters before you ride that may also help....anyone tried flatulence, yet?

flatulence, on a savage seat. not after monkee butt sets in. thats why i went with a chopper seat.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/02/05 at 14:48:23

sluggo wrote:

flatulence, on a savage seat. not after monkee butt sets in. thats why i went with a chopper seat.

Good point. After monkey butt sets in, a fart could be embarassing.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Ed_L. on 07/02/05 at 16:20:10

Farting with monkey butt could cause gorilla butt. That's monkey butt with a racing stripe :o. Oh yeah, shutting off the bike and restarting her triggered one of the problem lights so it seems to work,trying to get back to the orignial thread here. ;D

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/03/05 at 06:36:25

Ed_L. wrote:

What about Baboon butt. Very colorful.

So, the restart trick worked for you too? Cool.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Bluejeanz on 07/04/05 at 13:21:25

Well, I found out today that three bikes in the same lane can trigger the mechanism.

I have often sat at this one particular light until my brain boiled in my helmet and then gave up and went on.

Today, hubby was riding with me (Savage and Intruder) so we sat side by side at the light. It still didn't trigger. After two cycles, a guy on a Honda Shadow showed up. We waved him between us so he pulled up as close as he could between us and sure enough, the next cycle, we got our turn arrow.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/04/05 at 15:46:22

I had the opportunity to test the kill/restart method and it worked like a charm. Good info!

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Susan on 07/04/05 at 17:43:00

Hey Flash, Did you try the kill switch method? Just curious...

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by mikedasavage on 07/05/05 at 15:46:26

I tried the kill switch again and it didn't seem to work :( maybee it was my postion on the bike but i did it like three times and moved the bike to different spots. finnaly i just ran the freakin light :D Civil Disobedience ROCKS

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Paladin on 07/05/05 at 17:56:11

Leaving work out the main entrance the gate sensor sees me just fine. East gate also. Except I normally hit the left edge so I can exit as the gate starts to open. Today I was about 3 feet closer to the center and it didn't open. I was not over the buried sensor wire. Duckfooted back, pulled forward over the line marking the wire and the gate opened. Tomorrow I'll try the starter trick.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by gandalph40 on 07/06/05 at 07:55:11

Well, I got stuck at one of these lights on Tuesday and the kill switch method did NOT work. I tried it a couple of times and then gave up and...well, civil disobedience took over...However, in fairness, I think I was not in the best possible place within the trip box. I'm not giving up on the technique yet.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Paladin on 07/06/05 at 11:36:03

Try it at the same light with the bike over the sensor wire.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Bluejeanz on 07/06/05 at 16:00:02

Susan wrote:

Hey Flash, Did you try the kill switch method? Just curious...

No, I didn't know about that until I read this thread...which was AFTER the incident at the light. I will try it again, though, even though others have said it didn't work...never know. What have I got to loose? An opportunity for civil disobedience? ::)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/08/05 at 07:07:37

You think that we got it bad? I hadn't thought about it, but what if you don't have any electrical system?

Last weekend, the spouse and I sat behind a group of about 10 bicyclists in a left turn lane (we, in a cage) when suddenly they all turned left on the red arrow. At first we wondered what they were doing, but after a moment I realized that they were invisible to the sensor too....civil disobedience on 2 wheels!
:D

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Mr 650 on 07/10/05 at 03:00:57

Yo, we got a biker state senator in TN.
Legal to 'stop and go' at a red light for bikers now. :)

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Paladin on 07/10/05 at 04:36:21

Paladin wrote:

Managed to test again last Friday. You can see a rectangle in the pavement where the sensor wire is buried. Pulling in two feet in from the left edge the gate did not open. Shut down/restart -- still no open. Back up, pull forward over the sensor wire -- gate opens. This is just one sensor. Will test others as I find them.

But tenative conclusion is that placing the bike over the sensor wire (placing what little metal you have closer to the trigger) seems to work better than the small EM field from the starter.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/10/05 at 07:19:10

But don't forget...all sensors are not created equally as someone has to calibrate the base or threshhold.

Now, someone needs to buy the Green Light Trigger just to test its reliability, too.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by SavageDude on 07/10/05 at 09:07:35

Greg_650 wrote:

Now, someone needs to buy the Green Light Trigger just to test its reliability, too.

I bought one but so far it a 50/50 chance at the light. I guess it depends on how sensitive the loop was set up.
Will inform more when more test is done.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by freerider23 on 07/10/05 at 09:15:47

i always thought they were like scales--put 500 lbs on it and it triggers the light switch. wow guess i got some reading to do

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/10/05 at 09:54:54

Greg_650 wrote:

Now, someone needs to buy the Green Light Trigger just to test its reliability, too.

There's one on the bottom of my bike from the previous owner (or at least it was there about 3000 miles ago) and, from what I can tell, it does nothing. Of course, it's possible it does work and I just wouldn't know it until I removed it. Hmmmmm.

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Greg_650 on 07/10/05 at 10:16:13

freerider23 wrote:

i always thought they were like scales--put 500 lbs on it and it triggers the light switch. wow guess i got some reading to do

Nope ;D

Yep ;D

Title: Re: Green Light Trigger
Post by Paladin on 07/10/05 at 10:46:09

Savage_Rob wrote:

Only one way to find out. Pull it off, glue on Velcro fuzz and loop to bike and magnet. Leave off until you find a signal you cannot trigger. Back away, apply magnet, reapproach. Other than the one exit from the parking lot I have yet to find a trigger Thumper doesn't trip. But then, it is rare that a cage isn't on my tail.