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Message started by roughrider on 08/09/05 at 08:47:19

Title: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by roughrider on 08/09/05 at 08:47:19

I am compiling information regarding the backfire problem with the S-40 Savage/Boulevard. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I need websites and any hard core evidence not just chat regarding this problem. This backfiring problem could be fixed properly without decreasing the horsepower or the handing of the bike. I find it rather "Silly" that we the consumers are trying to modify the carb. on these bikes. Improper modifications by the consumer to the bike voids the warranty. Some states won't approve safety inspection on theses bikes. They check for hydrocarbon emmisions out the exhaust for inspection purposes. This is why the dealer and manufactuer refuses to resolve this issue. If they make the modifications that some of you are making they the manufacturer and dealerships would be liable. Suzuki being forced by the E.P.A. to meet certain emmision standards chose the less expensive way to meet those standards. I have ask a consumer recall group to study this problem. Your help could force Suzuki to modify the bikes in a recall old and new. This is not a (class action suit) This is only a method to jointly compile information that the manufacturer and the dealers don't want you, the consumer to know. Thank You

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Dynobob on 08/09/05 at 10:38:20

All the late model LS650 and S40 Suzukis backfire but I seriously doubt a recall is warranted. Here's the best description of the problem I've seen:

http://www.heise-workstations.de/ls650/Reviews/BrucesReview-e.html

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by red2k1 on 08/09/05 at 11:04:01

This condition has been known for years. It is always useful to do research before a purchase and not afterward. Good luck with your project though, it is just that I have no sympathy for it.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by rkutzner on 08/09/05 at 17:57:11

It's not a 'Suzuki' problem. Almost every non-FI bike purchased by my friends has had the same issue......singles seem to show it more. The problem is NOT Suzuki, it is the tree huggers. It is simply a lean condition caused by a federally mandated idle setting to meet a specified emission standard.

And adjusting the idle mixture screw, especially throughout the seasons, is the MOST NORMAL CARB thing known to mankind. No different than when you buy an ATV, depending where you live, weather and ALTITUDE depending, you need to rejet them, too, to get max performance. This mod does NOT decrease power, but INCREASES it.

People have modified and improved vehicles since the wooden wheel was invented.....you would be better off spending your time learning to fine tune a carb. My S40 SCREAMS now with a K&N, 2 2 1/2" holes in the baffle, the proper idle adjustment, a little needle adjustment, and a bigger main jet. Same stuff you get when you buy a performance exhaust for a Yamaha or a Harley...........really.....

Now I don't mean to get on you, I really do welcome you to the Savage world. ;D It is a great bike for those who wish to, or don't wish to, modify. But at least turn that idle mixture screw out 1.5 turns. Just about every carb, bike or car, that I ever worked with was made to run around that setting. My S40 from the factory was less than an 1/8th out. No carb was made to run with the mixture screw almost closed !!! And readjust it with the seasons......it's a 'carb thing'.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by roughrider on 08/09/05 at 19:35:12

your modifications void your warranty.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/09/05 at 20:23:48

Most bike warranties expire so quickly it's almost comical. Only a few offer more than a year.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by lancer on 08/09/05 at 20:26:35

It only voids the warranty for the first 12 months.................

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by shawn_b on 08/09/05 at 20:29:17

there not much of a warranty on these bikes pluse for 4,000$ new it's the best thing out there for the money with or with out the backfire

shawn ;D

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Richard Amirault on 08/10/05 at 07:34:42

roughrider wrote:

I am compiling information regarding the backfire problem with the S-40 Savage/Boulevard.(snip)

Just what "problem" are you refering too??

The Savage / S-40 will backfire. As I understand it, it is common for single's to do this. The Savage / S-40 is a single. What is the problem?

Richard in Boston, MA, USA

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by PerrydaSavage on 08/10/05 at 12:24:03

8)My '03 LS farted quite a bit when new ... mostly on decel when going off throttle ... also, engine used to cut out from time-to-time when backing off throttle while getting ready to downshift ... someone suggested increasing the idle by turning the set screw at the carb (near choke L.H. side of Bike) ... which I did, increasing the engine idle slightly ... Bike doesn't cut out on decel anymore and hardly ever farts!

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Mr 650 on 08/10/05 at 13:50:06

RR,
The Savage/S40 is one of, if not THE LAST carbed bikes for sale U.S. w a decent size motor.
The same EPA problems were experienced by the Big 3 30 years ago and is why they began to convert to EFI 25 years ago. Same for bikes now. Remember how your old 70-something would vapor-lock, run-on, sneeze through the carb, sink/burn valves and such?? (reference movie Uncle Buck- 70's Merc)
I think most Savage owners are aware of this.
The EPA specs percentages, not amounts/weights of smog/ vehicle.
As such the S40/Savage is not a 'bad guy' even w/ a proper tune up.

Now will Suzuki install EFI & catalytic converters on your bottom feeder of the Boulevard line to make you happy, no way, Jose. They sure don't carry many accessories and the same bike has been around 20 years.
Maybe stop shipping to the U.S. or just kill it tho. vs. some class action expendatures.
If they kill it, new parts go away in ten years.
That is why my 1st new bike- '83 GS750Es is gathering dust now, no parts thank you very much.
I am a biker, not a consumer when it comes to MY Savage 8)
What state do you live in, BTW?

roughrider wrote:

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by CHRIS on 08/10/05 at 15:20:39

I totally understand that when you buy something "new" you'd like to have it perform perfectly at least until the warranty expires, but like others have been saying, this is a well known fact with this and other singles. I'm just not sure what you're trying to accomplish by doing this... If Suzuki has to recall every savage and S40 made this will most certianly be the end for the machine. I'm with others in saying you do the research before you buy, and if you didn't, don't go around crying that you got ripped off!!!!

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by DavidV on 08/10/05 at 16:25:13

What's the big deal? The backfiring is pretty easy to fix. It only took me one lazy afternoon to rejet, change the white spacer and adjust the idle mixture. I'm sure you've got a buddy who can do it for the price of a burger and a few beers.

This defect is nothing like those Chevy Vegas that came with free rust, right off the showroom floor.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by sluggo on 08/10/05 at 17:34:42

DavidV wrote:

.

This defect is nothing like those Chevy Vegas that came with free rust, right off the showroom floor.

free rust, my dealer charged me for it. ;D

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/11/05 at 05:35:39

I think I tend to agree with Mr 650 on this. You have an inexpensive, no-frills bike here. If you make enough noise about improvements, it will become cost-prohibitive very quickly and they will simply cease to produce it; or at least cease to market it in the U.S. In my opinion, it has no chance of producing a desirable result and is simply a misguided idea. While there are plenty of causes out there that can use a champion, this isn't one of them.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by WD on 08/11/05 at 07:02:05

My wife's 1996 Intruder pops on decelleration much worse than the Savage does. 2 cylinders, 2 pipes, 2 carbs. In essence, two LS400s sharings a common crankcase.

My friend's 1982 Honda FT500 Ascot pops the same as a Savage.

So do my 1949 Dodge truck, 1969 Dodge truck, and 1985 Ford truck.

If the engine is "carbon dated" ::) it's going to make some funky noise on decel and shut down unless/until every minor component is perfect. And considering that 10 degrees or 100 feet of elevation gain/loss change the carb tuning requirements... I see it as "character", and it's one of the reasons I'm buying a Shovelhead with non-baffled pipes.
-WD

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by lancer on 08/11/05 at 09:51:40

No need to rejet for altitude changes if you choose to go with an Edelbrock Quicksilver. The times I have had one on my Savage it worked perfectly. Never once coughed, sneezed or farted....a perfect gentleman the whole time!

By the way, has anyone played with the idea of using a 100mm piston out of a DR650 for the Savage? In 1995-96 or 98 the DR and the Savage used a common piston and wrist pin, and there is a 100mm DR piston available. I have an extra cylinder for a little R&D work and I thought I would try it on for size. Any thoughts or even better...experience in this area?

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Digger on 08/12/05 at 21:31:23

I tried to fix my backfire problem by removing the white spacer and adjusting the mixture screw a few years back when I lived in Houston (sea level). The bike ran too rich and I fouled two plugs before I wised up and put the spacer back in the carb.

Now that I'm living in Colorado Springs at 6500' elevation, my Savage runs much better!

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by sluggo on 08/12/05 at 21:55:00

Digger wrote:

it's my understanding that you should reduce the size of the spacer not remove it completly.

Title: Re: Research,S-40 Backfire Issues
Post by Reelthing on 08/12/05 at 23:26:35

lancer wrote:

By the way, has anyone played with the idea of using a 100mm piston out of a DR650 for the Savage? In 1995-96 or 98 the DR and the Savage used a common piston and wrist pin, and there is a 100mm DR piston available. I have an extra cylinder for a little R&D work and I thought I would try it on for size. Any thoughts or even better...experience in this area?

If I remember correct woodworker did a .120" overbore or about 3mm - that's 97mm piston - is there enough meat in the cylinder to bore it a 1/4 inch over stock?