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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Clutch Disks Brand /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1133788808 Message started by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 05:20:08 |
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Title: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 05:20:08 Anyone have a good or bad time with the different manufac - of clutches holding up - EBC, Barret, oem, or ? Slavy, when you've added preload on these springs how thick of washers have you used? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by slavy on 12/05/05 at 07:05:17 About 1.5-2 mm (1/16"). Doesn't seem much, but if You think- this is like adding one more plate. I have done this too , but on a different bike- I had access to more steel plates and put 1 more. My clutch was slipping before that and was not after. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by slavy on 12/05/05 at 07:09:36 The clutches that I use like a replacement are always EBC, because this is what I have an access to. No problems so far. One important issue is the cable- make sure it is in good condition. A bad clutch cable WILL make wour clutch slip. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 07:43:06 thanks Slavy, it's a new cable - and it doesn't slip much just under heavy throttle in 4th or 5th at low rpm's - and since it's coming apart for a new cam chain seems reasonable to replace the plates at this mileage. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 11:42:41 Reelthing, do me a favour and mic your friction plates and springs before you discard them. Use your torque wrench when removing the 32mm nut on the clutch basket and let me know what the torque figure is. I'm trying to figure why Savage's are hard on clutches. I currently have mine apart and I am curious if there are similarities. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 12:07:45 i have mine apart too,i'm going to do the washer thing when i put it back together.i'm going to use suzuki plates.i dont know why savages are hard on clutches...i wish there could be more fiction surface on the plates :-/ as for the torque of the nut,i have no idea,we couldnt budge it with the torque wrench,we had to use a air gun.and the manual is out in the shed and its raining like hell,so i have no idea whats its supposed to be. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 12:09:37 we'll do and take a few pics along the way - but remember this one's not real bad - but I can make it slip - say going about 40mph in 5th and a quick WOT will do it - also 20w-50 vtwin mobil 1 in this as well - anyway may not be typical. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 12:17:31 Reelthing wrote:
thats what mine did for about three months,and it just kept getting worse,until one day it slipped in first when i was just starting out of the driveway. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 12:18:05 Say Torque, can you mic your old friction plates as well as the new replacements. I am going with Barnett. Reelthing; thanks for the effort. My clutch symptoms are similar to yours, it is rideable but can be made to slip, also I use 20W50. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 12:25:18 i'll try to take some pics as soon as i get jim-r over here,i dont know why but i can never bring my self to buy a camera,i guess thats what freinds are for ;D x-mas is comming ...hint,hint ;D |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 12:34:28 Torque, you know I'm asking for measurments right. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 12:37:53 no i didnt , do u need to know how many thousandths,and crap like that? i think the old plates were like 15 thousandths beyond the sevice limit ::) i dont have the new plates yet . |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 12:44:22 Yeah, if you have the use of a micrometer, I want to know the thickness of the used and new plates. I am working on a theory that Savage clutches slip well before the plates are used up. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 12:49:39 when my dad gets home i'll measure them with his caliper. already did this once, but like an idiot i didnt write anything down,now i cant remember a thing ::) |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 12:55:30 OK, that would be good. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 13:17:14 mic all the drive and driven plates if you have time |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 18:22:37 ok i found out that my dad does have a mic,the old drive (friction)plate is 137 thousandths,and the driven plate is 64 thousandths . |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 18:38:53 can you measure the preasure springs - the service limt is 1.30" 130 thousandths |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 18:42:58 they are 135 tousandths, not worn much at all. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 18:44:40 torque wrote:
by the way .137 is still with in the service specs for plate #2 almost new in fact - how about the thinner plate #1 ? |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/05/05 at 18:49:59 i'm sitting in the dark, trying too stay awake ,i'll measure everything tomarow. i trully dont know what plate i grabbed :-[ |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 18:59:21 torque wrote:
Wonder if they are down on their "elastic strength" - service manual suggests you can infer this from their length - I'm not so sure about that - so in comes Slavy's preload washers - that maybe all we need to do to these clutches that are just slip'n a little |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 19:34:07 Here are my clutch plate measurements. Friction plate #2 (thick one) 0.146" Friction plate #1 0.119" Steel plate 0.062" Springs 1.378" All of these values fall well within the standard range and are not within Suzuki's replacement range yet the clutch does not operate properly. BTW the fingers on the clutch basket were only notched slightly but I filed them flat. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/05/05 at 19:40:33 I may just pull the cover shim up the springs and see what happens |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 19:56:29 I would like to see everyone who takes their clutch apart, to post their plate and spring measurements here to see if in fact our clutch is failing with good spec plates or not. Perhaps the problem is not plate related but a different clutch delivery culprit. Maybe the recommended springs are too weak. The only other anomaly I discovered on the dis assembly was the clutch nut was hand tight only (about 1 ft. lb. torque). Thank goodness the retaining washer held. I have to assume the previous owner is responsible, but I do ask others to determine the torque prior to removal. It should be 36-50 ft. lb. of torque. I doubt this is a common problem but we can eliminate this one quickly if we can get a few more responses. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 12/05/05 at 20:08:17 Reelthing wrote:
Yes, that would be a good test. I would do the same but I think the snow is here to stay. Slavy also confirms this theory so I will be curious to see how you make out, especially in the long term. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by torque on 12/06/05 at 17:28:01 ok here it is friction plate#2= 3.5mm friction plate #1=3.0mm claw width#2=16 mm claw width#1=16 mm its really strange because they are all way in side the service specs.i believe the heat glazes the plates making them very hard and glassy,and the heat also weakens the springs,imo :-/ |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Reelthing on 12/15/05 at 16:53:35 Ok the parts came in today - if I can get to it this weekend - going to replace the cam chain, tensioner, rear chain guide, while im there ... I ordered in new clutch springs - going to replace these and add preload washers - and leave the clutch plates alone - going to be hard to leave along as I managed to get a NOS basket for $25. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by bentwheel on 01/01/06 at 17:39:47 I am still waiting on a replacement pressure plate before I can reassemble the clutch, so I measured the new Barnett plates. Guess what? They are the same thickness as the old plates I am replacing. I knew the old plates were still within normal ranges but I expected new plates would stop the slipping. Maybe so, but I now highly suspect plate wear is not an issue for the Savage, with the real culprit being insufficient spring tension on the clutch pack. Another thing that surprised me was the free play in the clutch basket when all the plates are inserted. There is easily room for one more friction disc and possibly another steel one as well. Rather than put in extra plates this time, I will preload the springs with washers I have made up. The replacement Barnett springs are 2mm longer than the old ones but use a slightly thinner coil. BTW I am replacing my pressure plate because I found cracks in the boss right where it attaches to the plate. I doubt this has anything to do with the slipping problems of the clutch plates . I am changing it now for reliability reasons. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by Tim Krantz on 01/04/06 at 22:08:02 Don't know if this will help or not, but I was having a wail of a tme keeping A RD400 Yamaha's clutch from slippng after doing some engine mods. I miked the steel and fibre plates,and all was well within specs, did the shims,as suggested on another site, but the slippage continued. This was during heavy acceleration at drag strips. Finally I took a tip on another site and swapped 3 of the 6 pressure springs out of a factory roadracing model, and the problem was cured, with just a little more effort at the clutch handle. It seems to me(and I've been wrong about things,more than right) that shimming doesn't put more pressure on the plates, unless the springs are progressive rate springs, hence the shimming didn't work?????? Anyhow, maybe alternative springs may be the answer???? |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/05/06 at 03:05:11 Had clutch slip with my tuned 350 LC, fitted 3 TZ 750 springs and the problem was cured. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by slavy on 01/13/06 at 09:57:01 I came to a VERY interesting statement wich actually makes a lot of sence. It states that the main reason for the clutch slippage in the mc is the sludge and crud build-up on the clutch plates. The build-up is caused by the products of the oil degrading. The higher the temp. and the harsher the rider, the more build-up. The article is"More Oil Advice" and it is written by a guy name Mike Guillroy. Please, read it and You will not be sorry for the time. |
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Title: Re: Clutch Disks Brand Post by azjay on 04/19/06 at 07:35:55 has anybody tried the clutch set from the 650 enduro(ds650) ? i would assume it is the same motor, and when i asked the service guy at our local suzuki shop, he looked up the part #s and description, the enduro uses more clutch plates, obviously a different part#, when i asked him about the swap, i got this "deer in the headlights look", ??? |
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