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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1140404968 Message started by The_Newstrums on 02/19/06 at 19:09:28 |
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Title: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by The_Newstrums on 02/19/06 at 19:09:28 I just purchased my 2005 S40 with under 400 miles on it. I've been riding over ten years, and this is my sixth bike. I really like everything else about this bike, except for the barely adequate braking. It almost never backfires and handles very nicely. Can someone please tell me what the reason for the poor braking is, and how I can go about improving it ??? I need better brakes! Thanks for your time, Sarah |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Max_Morley on 02/19/06 at 20:18:03 Possibily the brakes were never bedded in when new, in which case you could sand the disc brake pads and then do 20-30 medimum stops with time for the brakes to cool off between stops. We used to do cars about a mile and then use the brakes down to almost a stop then back up to speed to cool things off. Also I put a stainless steel wrapped brake hose on my 96 and I feel it made a positive difference in the linear feel of the front brake action. Max |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by babbalou on 02/19/06 at 20:51:23 My brake pads were nearly gone at 2,000 miles & I switched to SBS 581HF brake pads. I noticed a little more power in the front brake. I put on a braided stainless steel brake line & that helped some too. Since it's a single disc/single piston design it could use some help. After this I'd bleed the brake line & get out any bubbles. My rear brake seems OK. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by AussieSavage on 02/19/06 at 21:13:49 Hi Sarah, I have ridden alot of bikes in my time and also feel the Savage has a very average braking system, compared to some of the sports bikes and cruisers around. But then again the Savage uses the old rear wheel brake drum system, so you would expect that. I use heavier front disc linings, rather than the softer compound linings. Just seems to pull the bike up a bit quicker. Sure you can modify the brakes on the Savage, but you will only get a slight improvement.They will never be perfect. Bit like changing the spark plug and having to remove the tank:)) The seating that gives you a sore AAA after an hours ride:) Thats what makes it a Savage, a great little bike with faults that you live with and learn to enjoy:) Cheers from Aussie Savage |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by The Newstrums on 02/19/06 at 21:15:27 I figured that putting ceramics on would help. I looked up the application at Dennis Kirk and saw that the newer S40's don't yet show pad application (only the rears and those were Kevlar). Am I wrong in thinking that the brakes are the same as all the other year Savages? I'm thinking of just upgrading (just start off fresh) with ceramics front and rear and the EBC rotor. Whadya think? Ethan |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by babbalou on 02/20/06 at 00:26:48 Any brake parts for the Savage are the same as the S40. I've never upgraded rotors so I'm not sure what gains can be had there. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/20/06 at 04:01:55 E.B.C. front disc + pads give 17% more friction than std. On KLX I went from a 12.7mm to an 11mm master cylinder, this gives 33% more line pressure for the same lever pressure. The draw back is 33% more lever travel. Stainless braided brake lines are an all round good thing, less lever travel better feel. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Savage_Rob on 02/20/06 at 05:58:37 The single disc up front and the drum in back would be minimal braking for a heavier bike but are pretty decent for the Savage/S40. Changing the pads on mine did make a noticeable difference and I plan to put on the braided stainless hose later this year. I'll probably replace the rotor at some point but mine's fine now so those funds can go elsewhere... like gas for riding! |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Reelthing on 02/20/06 at 06:43:59 The '95 has the ebc rotor installed (even have the holes pointed in the correct direction!). The rotor business here http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1130383912 It does work better than the oem rotor that was on the '95 but it was near the bottom of service spec - the down side is it's a low carbon steel - not stainless - so while this gives it more bite it also will flash rust fairly quick around the saltw@ter air - the rotor is one piece -so what I did after a few hundred miles was brush on hi temp stainless pigment paint on all the non-contact areas. I have a stainless brake line in the box to install - and this seems like a good day to do that. I expect the brake line to do more than the rotor as the rubber line was install 11/94 and has >20k miles on it. How much better that almost New Stock I can't say. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Reelthing on 02/20/06 at 16:11:43 D@mn bleeding the front brake from scratch is a pain in the arse - 2 hours and at least 2 brews.... well I might lost count of both - it was a holiday! .... later and it now has a stainless line, low mileage master cylinder and caliper - seems to work |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Savage_Rob on 02/21/06 at 07:31:22 I decided I'd try the Mityvac Brake Bleeding Kit (http://www.toolsource.com/ost//product.asp?brand_id=&sourceid=NO%20SOURCE&dept_id=500&pf_id=65745&mscssid=9HAV6M5XP8B18L21MSD9UCX069RX42LB). It got a pretty decent write-up in Motorcycle Classics recently. http://www.mityvac.com/hq_images/06820.jpg |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Reelthing on 02/21/06 at 08:35:45 I used a 2 oz syringe the walgreens sold me for .50 and some tube'n - seems to pull a good vac to get it all started - if I was just swaping fluid it's not a difficult task but man starting from scratch was a different deal - that looks like it has a check valve that might make such things easier - what's that sack of stuff run you? |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Savage_Rob on 02/21/06 at 08:43:20 Well, I have the $2 version from Harbor Freight (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37201) and they have several others too - as well as the Mityvac above. This looked much easier to use and likely to be less mess. I thought I'd try it. Gotta be careful with brake fluid. That stuff'll strip paint off darn near anything. The link in the above post is the best price I saw at $31.50 for the full kit. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Steve530 on 02/21/06 at 09:03:03 I have a Mity-Vac brake bleeding kit that I've used for cars. My kit came with a vacuum gauge installed. It's been used for several thing in the past. I think it would work well for this application, but I've not used it for the Savage. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by MacAttack on 05/24/06 at 13:07:52 Poor braking: What is poor about it? That's important for two reasons: 1. we have a new '06, and the brakes are fine - I can lock up the front wheel; 2. is the lever spongy? Excess force required? Vibration? Squeal? I'll take a crack at it, if you could be a bit more specific. thanks, Mac |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by 911radioman on 05/24/06 at 16:22:16 I don't know, but mine is a 2002 and it brakes fine. Yeah, its old braking technology, but I've just gotten used to it and I see no problem with the Savage braking system. It's not like you're stopping a Sherman tank, as its a very lightweight bike. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Savage_Rob on 05/25/06 at 06:50:21 I know I put it into another post somewhere else, but just to follow up from my posts above... The Mity-Vac works VERY well for draining old fluid. In fact, it almost works too well for this application. It pulls fluid through so easily you can drain your MC really fast. Also, the pull can cause you to get small bubbles in the drain tubing from its connection to the bleed nipple. At first I though I still had some air in the brake line and kept adding more while pulling it through. In short, I ran a lot more fluid through the brake line than I needed to before I realized where the air came from. For larger jobs, the Mity-Vac is nice. For the Savage/S40, I'd stick with $2 kit from Harbor Freight and pump it through the old-fashioned way. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Digger on 01/02/07 at 20:18:13 Savage_Rob wrote:
For the record, the Mityvac works better if you first take out the bleed nipple and wrap the threads with a bit of teflon tape. This will stop air from seeping in from around the threads. Learned this one the hard way! |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by georgekathe on 01/02/07 at 21:09:36 i put new fluid in mine (did not know how long it had been changed) but yours is much newer than mine with less miles so can't see that making a difference. replaced line @ same time as fluid (also likely to be old on mine) with steel line & ebc pads & shoes front & rear (though ones I took off were oem but looked in good condition). there is a part on tech section on changing lines - though you won't have too old fluid in yours when you replace line (if you go that route) you'll have to replace fluid. I did not use a fancy thing to suck fluid out - just buddy working the cable with me sitting on ground, holding jam jar with fluid in it, hose from nipple dipped below surface. can't really quantify which mod made the (most) difference but think they all contributed. I'm happy with my braking now. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by geo on 01/02/07 at 22:08:25 I don't have to use brakes that agressively with this bike under normal use. The reason being the tremendous compression breaking I get with this engine. You could probably survive OK with only the rear brake if there were no 4-wheelers out there. Beware of the 4-wheeled sheet metal covered things out there. Be especially aware of the sport utility tanks (SUT). They care about nothing, and will gladly bury your ass into the pavement while they are talking on their cell phones. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by barb36jack31 on 01/03/07 at 14:27:36 I agree with GEO - I don't have to jump on the brakes all that often. Coming up on a curve? Tap her down a cog or two and you have all the deceleration you need. Nail the throttle coming out of the turn and the feel and sound are good for the soul. Of course all this is while riding the two-laners in rural Maine. Not much traffic! (Also the SuperTrapp helps with the sound part!) Jack H. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by verslagen1 on 01/30/07 at 21:58:39 I just seen these on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270083817259&rd=1 anybody try them? |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by justin_o_guy on 01/31/07 at 01:50:45 As the clock approaches 14,000 I am seeing the front brake get better. EBC's went on the stock rotor at 5,000 miles. Not ceramics, so they are what? Organic? Owell,, either my arm is getting stronger or what? I decided I was tired of the brake being lousy & I started really working it hard. I was squeezing so hard I was afraid something would pop,, It got to where it would slide the tire just before I came to a stop. Now I can grab & haul down on it & make it chirp at 25 or 30. I doNOT want it any better than that. Well, it would be okay if it did it with less effort. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by Savage_Rob on 01/31/07 at 05:32:30 When I last changed my front pads, I put on sintered metal pads. They seem to be working pretty well. I have front and back sets of ceramics on a shelf for the next change. By then I may decide to put on a new rotor as I've heard the sintered pads can wear the rotor faster. However, I'm not seeing anything that looks abnormal wear to me yet and it's been somewhere between 18 and 24 months since I put the sintered pads on. |
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Title: Re: Why do the brakes on my 2005 S40 suck? Post by EntropyofMe on 01/31/07 at 08:31:13 911radioman wrote:
ditto. i've got a completely stock 2006 and i can definitely lock up the brakes with ease. i'm also with the school of thought that maybe some more compression braking could be used instead. i definitely do this myself, and often use just the rear brake to gently coax it to a complete stop. i've definitely had emergency situations that required max braking from both, and keeping it from locking up, and it came to a stop PDQ, kept me out of the passenger side of an SUV. edit: actually... maybe, as per a previous thread about improving performance, these would help: http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/fundri/zbs972 ;) or just put duct tape on it somewhere, that's a guaranteed all around performance increase. ;D either way, be safe and good luck. |
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