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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th or 5th
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Message started by Jagndeke on 06/01/06 at 17:25:53

Title: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th or 5th
Post by Jagndeke on 06/01/06 at 17:25:53

'96 Savage with 10K on it. Overall runs great. But I noticed that occassionally when shifting into 4th or 5th sometimes it doesn't shift up first time around. Sometimes I'll have to pull the clutch in again and shift it again for it to finally shift up a gear. Most of the time though it shifts up nice and smoothly. No problem with the lower gears at all.

Any thoughts as to why? Gears or synchros getting worn? Guess I should check the clutch play but off the top of my head the play seemed okay when I rode it earlier today.

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by MacAttack on 06/01/06 at 19:03:02

Out-of-adjustment linkage? That would be the hope, but lower gears are ok... hmmm... sounds like worn shifting dogs to me. Tech folks???

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by steelwolf on 06/01/06 at 19:04:29

Read this thread...http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1146182925;start=15#15

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Jagndeke on 06/01/06 at 19:26:08

steelwolf wrote:

Read this thread...http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1146182925;start=15#15

Much obliged. I'll check it out this weekend and if I find anything I'll post back. If anyone else has any ideas, fire away. I might as well check as many things as I can while I'm at it this weekend.

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Reelthing on 06/02/06 at 09:54:09

How much have you ride'n th bike? - seems your foot learns over time as well

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Jagndeke on 06/02/06 at 14:06:59

Reelthing wrote:

How much have you ride'n th bike? - seems your foot learns over time as well

That's a good point. I've only had the bike for a week now. And it's the first bike I've had in over 20 years. Used to ride daily for about 15 years but then life got in the way and biking was put on the back burner for the past 20 years.

So, yep... maybe my shift timing's a little off. I plan on putting quite a few miles on it this weekend so I'll pay a little more focus on the shifting action and see what happens.

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Jagndeke on 06/05/06 at 17:24:58

Thanks for the feedback folks. Seems it's just my out-of-practice shifter foot afterall. Once I focused and put my mind on the task at hand (shifting) I didn't have a single problem. Guess I've got to spend some time retraining my shifter foot!!!

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Reelthing on 06/06/06 at 10:20:17

took me 5k miles in 3months to stop missing gears on the moto guzzi - real different shifting beast that one - it just takes some time for the foot to learn - once it does you'll shift it without hardly knowing you did it

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Digger on 01/05/07 at 20:16:20

A tip:

One of the "easy fixes" to improve shifter action is to lube your clutch cable. It really works, try it!

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Fido_the_Cat on 01/12/07 at 19:42:51

Some thoughts from the other side of the fence......
Based on my own experience, or the lack of it. I tried to haul my bike to the dealer for some repairs, (not having access to manual or Cymers yet). I strapped it down while the bike was still in gear. Major DON'T DO!!! I think the shift fork was bent during the attempted haul (never happened). Now I'm to chicken to do a tear-down to examine it. And like you I've adjusted my shift style and it rarely happens anymore. So until I get more free time and gutts to go looking for trouble, it's not broken.

Long version of my .02

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/13/07 at 16:24:38

I read that last post & went on. Thought about it & came back. I don't understand how being in gear & strapping it down could hurt the shift fork. Seems trying to shift w/engine turned off might bend it, or speed shift, no clutch might stand a chance, but just shoving the bike around in gear ought do nothing but drag the rear tire some or turn the motor over. Best I can tell anyway. Anyone else?Unles maybe it wasn't quite all the way in gear? I haven't even been in the tranny & might not undesttand it if I saw it. BUT, there's my thought. All .02, free!

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by barry68v10 on 01/13/07 at 18:11:37

I quit using the clutch at all for 4-5 shifts. I noticed a "problem" shifting when I changed riding boots. They were taller than the old ones so if I kept my foot under the shifter between shifts it wouldn't "reset" and therefore not grab the next gear. Figured the problem out quickly and adjusted my shifting technique accordingly. As mentioned many times, every bike has it own little quirks.

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by riptide_fl on 01/15/07 at 06:49:28

I had the same problem as Barry, new boots wouldn't let it shift properly because my toe was not letting it return to the reset position...I adjusted the shift linkage to raise the shift lever slightly and everything is fine now !!..Good luck with it !!..John

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Fido_the_Cat on 01/15/07 at 18:11:45

justin_o_guy wrote:

I read that last post & went on. Thought about it & came back. I don't understand how being in gear & strapping it down could hurt the shift fork.

Thanks for giving it some consideration. What I can tell you is what knew at the time. I strapped down the bike, front and rear( through the rim) with it in gear, then the bike fell over. I'm pretty sure the front seals are shot, if not from me then the previous owner. They go down to easy.
When I took the bike off the truck (abandoned the trip) their was a whining coming from the engine that I had never heard before. Over time it disappeared. But that's when the 5th gear miss began.
Again, if I shift it slower and smoother it falls right in place.

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/16/07 at 02:17:31

generally, I th9ink the tranny is very well done. Not too clunky, can shift w/o clutch very easily. I have had probs with missing 4th & 5th, but, a previous post pointed oout my erroe. I wwasn't letting my toe down far enough to let the shifter cycle. So, when I am thinking I have no problem at all.
One thing I have noticed is that going into 5th it doesn't feel like the shifter travels all the way unless I leave my toe on it & give it another good shove. Doesn't seem to matter whether I do it or bot, cuz it never pops out & drops to 4th even if I don't force it. Also, if I just go on & run it, then try to hit the shifter adain, it feels fully engaged in 5th, so, whatever is causing the thing to not want to travel all the way isn't seeming to be a p[roblem. Just curious if anyone elses does that..

Sometimes clutchless shifting, it will pop out of 2nd when the torque climbs & I'll suddenly be in neutral. I don't blame the tranny. I expect thats hard on it tho.

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by barry68v10 on 01/16/07 at 14:08:58

justin, i've experienced many of the same shifting "quirks". I STRONGLY RECOMMEND using the clutch for ALL 1-2 shifts. 2-3 encouraged. 3-4 your call. Failure to use the clutch for 1-2 shifts could shell your tranny which = bad day all around :(

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/16/07 at 14:18:48

Yep, I've decided on 1st - 2nd usin the clutch, just because it seems smart. I can make 2nd to 3rd every time, no jump back down, ever, If I roll all the way out of the throttle I can make 1st to 2nd as long as I don't roll back in too quick, heck, may as well get the clutch then,,

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Phelonius on 01/18/07 at 12:29:28

Since Jappanese motorcycles do not have synchros in the tranny, it won't be worn synchros. Check closely that your clutch cable is in proper adjustment. Possible worn dogs is another thing that could do this.
When shifting, always use the clutch. Shifting without the clutch is not only possible it can become a lazy habit once you get good at it. However it does put more wear on the engaging dogs not only creating the possiblity of missed shifts, but eventually popping out of gear. Unless you are not concerned about longivity so much as drag racing or ego enhancement, I reccommend using the clutch on every shift.
BTW, Jackrabbit starts and sudden applications of torque may feel good but they shorten spoke life too.
For the tiny fraction of a second that it increases your shift time, the benifits to overall drivetrain life are worth doing it right.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/18/07 at 12:42:26

AAArrrggghhh, you mean that while I am riding foolishly & behaving as if I am invincible & thrashing the absolute crap outta my bike I am inducing more wear than if I was riding calmly & responsibly!!??? Eaux Neaux! I hadn't considered the spokes yet tho, thanks for the heads up there. A failure there hangin in a turn would be large & extreme suckaciousnous in action.

Thats Suk Ay shus ness, or, the act of sucking to the max,

Title: Re: Occassional "miss" shifting to 4th o
Post by Phelonius on 01/19/07 at 12:23:19

justin_o_guy wrote:

Not really, It's all a matter of choice. It stands to reason that mechanical things last longer when not clashed.
Other than when I have to use generous amounts of acceleration to escape a bad situation, I generally try to change gears in such a way that if I had a passenger aboard, they would not be aware of the change of gears.
In my youth, I was into wheelies and as fast an acceleration as I could for the thrill of it. I found I was replacing spokes, tires, gears, and clutches a lot more than my friends. Since I now pride myself on smoooooth gear changes and even when accelerating hard, I let the clutch engage fully and the accelleration begin before opening the throttle fully. My machines thank me for this by lasting much longer now. Like I say, if you prefer to enjoy the surge of power and the jarring engagement of gears for your riding enjoyment that's OK by me but it will wear out parts faster. It' all in what you want from your ride.
P.S I am an old geezer now, and no longer have the reflexes to ride the way I used to. That may have something to do with my change of riding habits.

Phelonius
Note, My first learning indication of the stretched spokes was an unexplained speed wobble that I barely avoided crashing from. If you continue to enjoy aggressive riding, Learn to check and tune your spokes properly. It ;D can help prevent pionting your oil drain plug at the sun, which is something I have always considered bad luck to do while rideing.