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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> downshifting 06 s-40 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1155347596 Message started by starmom on 08/11/06 at 18:53:16 |
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Title: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/11/06 at 18:53:16 for those of you with the newer model, im not sure if its the bike or its just me. in noticing that when im ridin lets say in 2nd-3rd gear and comming to a light, now im trying to downshift, i get to the green light (netural) and i cannot kick down again without pulling in the clutch first, sometimes it gives me trouble and im thinking im downshifting to first and i never see the green light, then im at the light my hubby is giving me nuts that i should have been in first long before i stopped etc. the other thing is if im approaching a stop at 40-50 miles an hour i find if i downshift too quickly the engine kinda jerks and groans, its this bad for the bike? what strategy should i be using? my upshifting is not a problem, i can get from a start and be moving along quite nicely in moments, im also having the occasional stalling at the lights still, much better since we tweaked the idel just a tiny bit. my husbands harley nor my friends honda shadow have this downshifting issue, they can just kick down right thru neutral without getting the clutch too involved in terms of having to pull in and out before clicking down to first ...... would appreciate some insight to this problem that im having. otherwise have been doing some ridin since the very hot temps have gone away "thank god" and otherwise i think my skills have improved alot! sue |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by babbalou on 08/11/06 at 19:28:13 Could be that the clutch cable needs to be tightened up a bit. That might explain the groaning noise too while downshifting. Around 2,900 miles mine started shifting a little sloppy & needed the lever pulled back to the grip to shift right. Also, at a stop some bikes are a little stubborn getting back into first without rolling the bike a little forward or backward with the clutch pulled in. Every bike I've owned did that to some extent. I used to pull the clutch in & out until it dropped into first, now I just push back a little with my right foot with the clutch in & shift into first. Clicks right in. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Dynobob on 08/11/06 at 19:49:54 Shifting on the Savages can be notchy. They typically don't like to shift while sitting still. Downshift while slowly rolling to a stop. Engage a lower gear when your reach an appropriate speed. If you downshift too soon, you'll see some high rpms (fast running engine) and squeak your tires. If you rev too high...yes you can hurt your engine. You should be nearly stopped before downshifting to first (maybe 10mph or slower). Shifting from neutral while stopped can be tough. Rocking the bike a bit while trying to shift down may help. I don't know how many miles you have on yours, but the more miles I put on mine, the smoother the shifting gets. Don't stomp down too hard on the shift lever. There's a rod that can be bent fairly easily. It is outside the engine so it's not too hard to fix. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Savage_Rob on 08/11/06 at 19:54:16 When downshifting it definitely helps to do it while still moving. If stopped, let out the clutch enough to allow the current gear to engage and then pull in the clutch and downshift. If you stomp on it, you'll bend the linkage. You may want to take a peek and see if that rod in the linkage (it's 5 or 6 inches or so) is bent at all, because it could make it more difficult to shift now if it's bent at all. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by steelwolf on 08/11/06 at 20:12:53 Sounds like you are saying you are shifting without the clutch. Is this the case? If so you must match the road speed (mph) with the engine speed (rpm) to keep the groaning and jerking from happening. If you are using the clutch then it sounds like you may be shifting before getting the bike slow enough to match the gear you are going into. Also ease out the clutch when shifting so you don't have a sudden jolt from the transmission being engaged. This will cause the rear tire to skip as it catches up. Not a big deal but if you are not expecting it, it can surprise you. And your hubby is right. Get to first before you stop. The gears mesh much easier when they are moving. The ocaisional stalling at the light is probably just a matter of exprience. The more you practice with the friction zone of the clutch the better it will get. The wet clutch in your bike can be "ridden" so to speak without harm so don't worry about burning it up like a car. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Keith_B on 08/11/06 at 20:26:36 :-/ i may be wrong, but i don't downshift with out using the clutch. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by azjay on 08/11/06 at 21:23:31 i dont use the engine/transmission to slow the bike as a general rule, brake pads are less expensive than chains,sprockets,clutches,transmission parts,engines, and i always use the clutch lever for every shift on every bike, up or down. my stopping technique is to pull the clutch in, slow the bike with the brakes, downshift while holding clutch in, try to match gear select to bike speed, in case the light turns green, etc. on debby's '96 i have noticed it prefers to be much slower when down shifting, than road speed would dictate, otherwise it tends to crunch a little. it may need a clutch adjust, but it seems to work pretty well the rest of the time. its good to hear that you're gettin some saddle time, the more you ride the better it gets. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by gary_ona_savage on 08/11/06 at 21:34:32 I've noticed the gears are more clunky on a savage than other bikes I've ridden, especially between 1st and 2nd. You need to be deliberate in your shifting without stomping on the shifter. When you down shift to 1st, it will want to stop at neutral. Make sure you keep pushing till you are all the way through neutral. Same with upshifting. You don't want to hammer it or yank on it, but you need a firm, deliberate move with your foot till it stops all the way. Also, downshifting to first you can check to make sure it's there by stepping on it again. If you notice the shifter doesn't move, it's there. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by SavageDude on 08/11/06 at 22:33:15 Practice make perfect. I had the same problem down shift at first from 2nd to 1st. Now I found the right time to shift down when the bike is still moving slowly to a complete stop without any grief from the transmission. Starmom you have to pratice and find out where that sweet spot is on your bike. Eventhough mine is new as your, each bike is broken in differently and might behave differently. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/12/06 at 06:00:26 Hey all and thanks for responding........ Ive gotten only about 350 miles on her so far (been tough with a 7 yo at home and my teen in sleep away camp to get time out on the road) I look foward to school starting again so my days off are free again! b.t.w. that headlite upgrade to the silverstarl is amazing! we were out wed evening and the high beam was so white and bright! I do use the clutch as much as possible when im shifting up or down and you are all correct that i need more time in the saddle. My recent rides have been with hubby and his H.D. 1200 which he claims will be my bike in a few years (he is thinking even bigger may be better for him) I like my savage, will never get rid of her regardless. I worry about the sheer weight and tipability of the HD especially the sporty. as it is i have a shoulder injury that didnt get repaired right two years ago that im gonna give another doc a try at fixin this october. So at this point if im on a hill and my suzi rolls back alittle on a stop it hurts my shoulder, couldnt imagine how that would feel with another 300+ lbs of bike to hold. I will get some saddle time in on my own so i can concentrate on my "skills" without trying to keep up with hubby or be under scrutiny of how im doing things. I did on my own realize (never had a car with a clutch in my life, this is my first) that one mistake i was making was not having the clutch totally disengaged (pulled in) when i was stopped and trying to get her into first so i was "getting alittle tire" from the stop. Im working it. The heat here in NY was totally blowing me away a few weeks ago, I dont know how you all in the southern or south western states handle the heat, not only was it like l00 but the humidity was around 80%! Im a girl that would pass out practically with all my gear in in that environment. (im in my 40's and have my Own personal heatwaves occasionallyl) I simply refused to ride during some of that period of around 2 weeks. But what is strange is that I have has a moment or two where I had been comming to a stop and clicking her her down to first and not seen the green N light and tried to continute to click down and then up and not sure what gear I was in "warm engine", that I really hate because with a cager behind me if i stall they are NOT expecting that, Ive gotten very quick to restart and take off fairly quickly when that happens but i cannot wait until that is no longer an issue for me. Thanks for taking the time to read and for your responses you all are a great group of internet buddies! |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/12/06 at 06:04:47 One more thing re: downshifting...... when im in traffic i find that if im downshifting that getting the bike into first has me going slower than the cages and that also makes me nervous which i think is why im finding myself going from second to N and then finding first at the light. cars slow down at a much faster speed than the suzi, i dont want to abruptly slow down and get knocked from behind. Again I guess its a matter of practice and getting a smoother slowing down and getting thru the gears better from 2nd to lst. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by SavageDude on 08/12/06 at 06:55:13 You can be in 1st with the clutch in so the the bike still rolling without the engine slow it down. And if you have to, upshift to second and let out the clutch and goooooo! It is way easier to upshift on our bike than to downshift to 1st. The main thing is to make sure you are in the right gear at the right speed to get away from the cager when needed. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by bikingb on 08/12/06 at 07:04:44 I have 3700 miles on my 2006. Yes that's right 7000 miles for the year between my first 2002, my new bike, and the ninja. I'm kinda happy about that. This is only my second year riding. I'm thinking that the more you ride, the better it will get. The only difficulty I have shifting into first is when I am in nuetral at a stop. Sometimes I need to give my left hand a break or zip or un zip something at a light. When the bike does not readily go into first, I ease the clutch out and pull it back in and then shift down. No problem. On my old bike I would stomp. Not so good. As far as riding along in nuetral in traffic. I wouldn't feel safe doing that. I'd just hold the clutch in as I was slowing and shifting down. That way if I needed to I could move forward with power immediately available. I might try tightening the cable. Sometimes there is a clunk sound when she goes into first and sometimes there is not. Also, shifting into 5th. Sometimes it feels like there is a double click up and sometimes only a single when shifting up. I don't know why. I'm so grateful for this forum. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Paladin on 08/12/06 at 08:21:06 starmom wrote:
Every bike has it's own sweet spots that are slightly different, even from other bikes of the same make and model. As you ride you adjust your handling of the controls to mesh with the bike and you will become smoother and smoother until you are no longer thinking about controlling the the bike, you simply do. I'm not sure when I did so, but it was somewhere in the 8500 miles I've done since I've gotten Thumper. My Method of Procedure: Stopped, in first gear, declutched. Twist throttle/release clutch/accelerate. Momentary roll off throttle with firm (to pass by neutral) toe up pressure on shifter. Repeat, but not as much pressure needed. Again into fourth, one last time into fifth and roll off throttle to cruising. Being a Big Single, the Savage has a lot of compression braking available. Coming to a stop am completely off the throttle. A momentary blip of the throttle as I toe down the shifter. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. (you can repeat again but nothing happens.) I'm into first gear somewhere between 20 and 10 mph. Just before stopping grab the clutch. Return to the top of this paragraph. The downshifting happens before any brakes are applied, except in those few cases where I was not looking far enough ahead. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by DianeS. on 08/14/06 at 13:51:09 Hey Starmom!!!! When I come to an intersection, I start gearing down and braking so that I'm in first gear before I stop fully at the light. Now, if I'm going too fast to gear down, I use the brakes to slow myself down so that it's a smooth transition into each lower gear. I have found that if the bike is in neutral, it's difficult to then shift down to first if you are stationary - so I always shift to first before I stop. Now, if I ever stop and go into neutral (to check a pocket etc.) then I sometimes let the clutch out, and bring it back in - to drop down to first more easily. I did drive mostly standard cars, so shifting up and down are pretty natural for me - in terms of engine revs and speed etc. Yet, it just takes practice. Safe riding!!! ;D DianeS |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Reelthing on 08/14/06 at 13:59:45 or one of these babbies http://www.mccserv.com/savage/dscf0065.jpg |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/14/06 at 16:42:49 You all are so awesome! Thanks for sharing your though processes with me. I think that I had kinda already realized that if it wont go down from "N" that pulling in the clutch makes it seem to work. I only get out once a week or so on the bike, I need some more alone time in quiet areas where I can practice getting a rhythum to getting into first without stopping , and without hearing noises that i dont like. Its the noise that I hear when I do get there from letting out the clutch too much/ too fast, maybe I need to let it out halfway, because the bike is going slower than the engine thinks it should or would like . I really do well, this is just technique stuff that sometimes gets in the way and messes with my ride, its embaressing to stall at a light. I can start up immediately and get going, but I want to get my chops down so its inate behavior and no longer something I have to think about. you all rock! Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Reelthing on 08/14/06 at 16:52:52 Couple hundred hours in that seat and a couple thousand miles you won't even think about whats where or how to do it |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Ed_L. on 08/14/06 at 18:53:10 The bike is still new and a bit tight, after a thousand miles or so the downshifting will get smoother. Have the same problem downshifting from neutral into first but doing it while rolling really helps. Get some more saddle time, it becomes second nature after a while. When downshifting just let the clutch out slowly till you feel the engine rev, don't just dump it and chirp the rear tire. Riding gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter, gotta love it. ;D |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/14/06 at 18:58:21 thats what happens exactly sometimes only.... i guess "i dump it and chirp the back tire" and so this is a result of lettng out the clutch too quickly.......... its getting clearer and clearer what im doing wrong..... gosh i feel kinda dumb.......... Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Roadie on 08/15/06 at 06:22:23 starmom wrote:
I commute with my Savage, and everyday I have to stop on a decent grade hill. This is what I do. (I'm sure it's bad form or something.) Sit at light in first. I hold down the front brake. Light turns I roll out with a light (VERY LIGHT) amount a brakes to keep from rolling back (and only for a sec). Basically use the friction zone to your advantage and pull your self up. (BTW: I'm sure this is bad form, but this works for me.) Always use your clutch for shifting. Clutch plates are ment to be used up. Transmissions are not. You'll get better at shifting with more saddle time. Heat's an issue with an air cooled engine in my opinion. I don't ride when it gets blazin' hot out. (Ed's oil cooler would help!) If its a matter of personal comfort, buy a Joe Rocket Pheonix Down jacket. Worth every penny. Can be found at newenough.com.... - Roadie |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Trippah on 08/15/06 at 16:00:41 Downshifting is all about practice -sounds like your well on your way. When you pull in the clutch lever and push down on the toe lever, blip the throttle faster then let out clutch slowly, the engine has to speed up to mesh comfortably with the lower transmition gear. As far as intersections, I gear down to nuetral, then if I can shift up to second and take off. If I have to stop, I gear down to Ist. pull in the clutch and wait. If a long wait, and a couple cars line up behind me, then I shift up into neutral and await the light change. A little roll forward by footpower does make getting into 1st easier. On a hill stop/start- different plan :D.. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by RadarORiley on 08/16/06 at 09:16:39 Starmom, you might check into getting a cool vest & bandana filled with the cool crystals to ride in. They give you a wet T-shirt but make it possible to ride in 100+ weather here in Texas. I keep mine in an old dishpan in water so I can grab it for a ride whenever the mood hits me. I understand the heat issues because beside being 63, female & fat, I have lupus, so the temperature is a real problem for me. The vests are not too expensive, I've even convinced my hubby to wear one while moving pastures, & he swears by them now. And don't worry about using the clutch when you shift, if your hubby & friends tease you about it, you don't have to ride with them ;D The time will come when you "Hear" when it is time to shift & it will come to you automatically. It will not come as easy to you as to riders who are used to a clutch. For now, shift, it's better than ruining your bike trying to ride their way. |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/17/06 at 17:14:18 Hey all; I took my "suzi" out for a 40 miles ride today. Did some errands and then took a nice three lane road to visit a friend 20 miles north. I figured it would give me nice flat terraine to be at stop lights and figure this thing out. What I discovered was that "suzi" perfers to go from N to lst at around l0 miles an hour and most of the time likes to stay at N during the down shift, I dont beleive that I have been able to get her to go thru N directly into lst much without an additional pull or more of the clutch, sometimes i have to pull in and release more than once, I kinda sorta watched to see at what speed it would work, def around 20 it will not go from N to first. I dont want to on purpose go to "N" and stay there, its always been the quest for lst at a complete stop. if im in 2nd and im approaching a light if there is not one behind me i just slow down and see if i can coast at a safe speed for traffic and hopefully the light will change and i can just continue, i have great balance so barely moving i can keep my feet on the pegs for a good long while. (my motorcycle teacher told me i would do well at a rally where that is a skill in a game) it appears that if i am in second and almost stop that sometimes the engine is alittle chuggy from the start (need to work on my friction zone there?) or pull in clutch, give alittle throttle ,release slowly and given throttle. The ride went great! I was on my own so I could think about what "IM " doing and not trying to keep with up anyone else. I experienced NO STALLING the entire ride.......Yippee!!!!! (its so embaressing!) Thanks for reading.......and caring :) sue |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by Trippah on 08/17/06 at 17:41:19 Yeah! and you are right, you'd have to ride the clutch a bit if accelerating in second from 1-4 or 5 mph, some shuddering to be expected (and not all that desireable), drop into first if you can, then back up to second. ;) |
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Title: Re: downshifting 06 s-40 Post by starmom on 08/17/06 at 18:00:54 "shuttering" is a great description of it, i dont like it, suzi doesnt like it much either, but with every ride im figuring it out, up to 359 miles now. |
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