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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad!
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Message started by bmwpowere36m3 on 09/29/06 at 06:41:06

Title: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad!
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 09/29/06 at 06:41:06

Hey guys, I'm new here...I was looking at this bike for sale; it’s a '87 LS650 with 16K miles on it. The only problem seems that the starter gear is busted and so is the side cover/crankcase. I haven't seen the bike in person yet, but I have read that this problem isn't uncommon on these year bikes.

I've searched and found some info on broken starter gears, electronic unit to activate decompression on shut down and start up. The question I have is how many have had this problem and fixed it. Especially if the case is busted...then I would have to either JB weld it or actually weld it...or new crankcase.

So either way how much do you think it would be worth? Thanks.

Title: Re: '87 LS650 Starter Busted...Need Help!
Post by vroom1776 on 09/29/06 at 13:06:52

Not much. KBB on an 87 in $965, retail. (note, KBB is higher than NADA). If you really liek wrenching go for it if you can get it for less than, I don't know, $350?

Case repair can suck, esp if you mess up, get a sudden oil leak on the road, and wreck the engine you jsut put all the work into. I would not use the JB weld. The decomp. contoller is a separate unit from the ignitor. I bet one off a newer model would work, but i'm not sure. I checked Bikebandit.com, but could not find the unit quickly.

Starter motor: Wherea re the gears broken? Inside the case? or is it just the rod?

Shoot, buy it for a parts bike and sell them to us! Lancer bought one (Torque's) w/ a cracked (okay, exploded) case and broken conrod for $650, I think, and sold us the parts... it was a 96, with abouth the same mileage.

Oh, one more thought on the cracked case... there are three parts of the case which are repalceable w/o pulling the engine... oil filter covver, rigth side cover which hides the clutch, timing cover. These parts may be expensive to replace...

Also, at 16k miles, the cam chain and tensioner is probably ready to give, too.

Title: Re: '87 LS650 Starter Busted...Need Help!
Post by SAMM on 09/29/06 at 13:15:41

When I pulled my side cover to replace a leaking gasket I was surprised to see that my case had been repaired ( welded ) and redrilled.. If I had it to do all over again I would have searched for a newer bike without the case problem !!!

Dont get me wrong I still love my mistress ( so my wife calls her ) ;D

Title: Re: '87 LS650 Starter Busted...Need Help!
Post by Trippah on 09/29/06 at 15:14:34

this is the bike on ebay?? Seems like unless you can get it dirt cheap, i'd look elsewhere - but then again I'm not a mechanic. As a parts bike to help fund another bike has some real potential.

Title: Re: '87 LS650 Starter Busted...Need Help!
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 09/29/06 at 21:06:29

Thanks guys...well i can get it pretty cheap, it seems that either I will try to rebuild it somehow, or sell off the parts of the engine and buy a used one. I haven't seen the bike in person yet. I have to see the damage myself first before I make a decision.

However, can someone who went thru this problem of a broken starter gear/case give any more input of possible repairs? Thanks.

Title: Re: '87 LS650 Starter Busted...Need Help!
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 09/30/06 at 19:27:36

Calling Owners With Similar Problems: Dogpoo, SAMM, & theikeman...from this thread:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1137870192

Also: lebarle...from thread:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1121341906

And!: trickbikeman & Derek...from thread:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1120507478

Pls Help

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by vroom1776 on 10/02/06 at 07:19:21

you may also want to look through the old Heise forum. It's down, but you can still search thru the backup directory. Also, you may be able to use babblefish.com to translate into german, and back, and go talk to the germans (whoown savages). There is also a yahoo group, Be_Savage, I believe. If I recall correctly, too, one of the starter gears was changed in after a couple of years of production...

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 10/02/06 at 07:54:55

I can't seem to find the backup for the Heise Forum, other than a list of probably every single post ever...I just joined that group Be_Savage as well. I just thought that there were more people with this problem. Thanks!

vroom1776 wrote:

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by vroom1776 on 10/02/06 at 09:11:55

yeah, that's how the heise forum worked...

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by Kropatchek on 10/03/06 at 07:53:20

You may also find some usefull information on page 2 of the following thread:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098969517

Look up the specific pages of ronayer.com for the proper partnumbers.

Greetz
Kropatchek 8)

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 10/03/06 at 09:34:00

Thanks, but not much help...I know there was a change in starter gear design over the years. I'm wondering if its worth fixing what's broke, is it possible to fix the broken gears and case, and if any one else has had this happen and what they did?

Kropatchek wrote:

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by vroom1776 on 10/03/06 at 12:39:57

One can fix a case, but one'd better know how to weld. Fixing I gear? I doubt it, unless you have extensive maching experience. Replace it. A lot of chopper type mags run how to articles. I recall one in the Horse Backstreet Choppers on case repair.

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 10/04/06 at 06:12:08

Well with regards to the case I know it will need to be welded or "glued" w/ JB Weld...gears on the other hand, I know will need to be replaced. There's no point in machining them because you would still have to harden them afterwards anyways. I tried looking up the mag article with no luck...do you remember where you found it? Anyone else???

Thanks!

vroom1776 wrote:

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by vroom1776 on 10/04/06 at 07:51:57

It was in a friends copy of the mag. I will try and get a hold of it again, and let you know the issue #. I bet other mags may ahve that type of article inthere... If you end up looking a thte news stands, look for ones that feature older bikes.

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by bmwpowere36m3 on 10/04/06 at 11:10:03

Anyone else have an opinion good or bad, here's the deal...

I think that the owner had this bike for a while and the starter gear went...along with the case. Went to a shop to get it fixed and they probably told her she needed a new case, which is $$$. Motorcycle shops or any other shops for that matter, don't like to bother with stuff like that. Too much work for results that might not work. She figured that a new case was not worth it, which it
isn't...unless you get a used one and now wants to sell the bike.

It has all the papers and is in really good condition... minus the starter gears. KBB value is $1500, but there price is never right.

What are guys paying for bikes this old in good condition and running?

She's asking $300 obo. In any case I believe that even if I don't buy this bike to fix it, I can part it out for more money. I see a lot of guys looking for parts for these bikes, because new parts are unavailable or really expensive.

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by SAMM on 10/04/06 at 14:29:17

I paid $400 for my mistress ( so my wife calls her) 87 Not so good cond when I bought her but she is a Beut now... Look at (Show us your ride) ... Mine is the first bike.. 2 to$300 its worth that for parts, if the case is to bad to weld.... They welded my case while it was still assembled... You just need to find someone up for a challenge !!

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by Rockin_John on 10/05/06 at 02:09:41

bmwpowere36m3 wrote:

You're probably right about the owner's shop experience. Sometimes they'll do that crap to a girl, or non mechanically inclined guy; then make them a low ball offer on the bike for "parts."

The case can be tig welded good by someone that really knows their stuff.

JB weld is a waste of time on parts under real stress. Only useful if not under hard use. I recently used it to do a temp repair on a clutch lever perch, and it failed within a couple of hours of riding. However, had that been an emergency road repair, I would have been very happy to make it to the next shop! It's the duct tape of the glue world ;-)

As for price: for a 1987... I paid too much for mine a couple months ago. Only 6k miles by two old men over 65, but kinda rough looking. Embarrassed to admit giving $1200, but I didn't want to spend $2500+ for a late model low mileage; when I was pretty sure that I'd be be cutting it up to my tastes. Plus, I was getting tired of waiting for a bargain to come up locally. Didn't feel like driving 500 miles through Texas or something to get a bike for a couple hundered less. Gas cost too much for that crap nowadays.

Anyways, if I came across a deal like that local to me, I'd have my wallet out so fast they'd thing I was a gun slinger ;-)

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by barry68v10 on 10/05/06 at 04:09:02

I paid $1775 for my 98 with 697 miles on it...and one slight rub mark on the front fender.

Title: Re: Broken Starter Gear & Case...Need Help Bad
Post by vroom1776 on 10/05/06 at 07:22:37

The Horse Backstreet Choppers #60 has the article on case repair. You can get it from their website for $10. They are on #63 now...