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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Intermittent start problem... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1165357451 Message started by justin_o_guy on 12/05/06 at 14:24:11 |
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Title: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/05/06 at 14:24:11 You folks have seen me whine about this before but now I have a few more clues. Maybe someone will know where I should look next. What it does is: Always, without fail, cranks cold. Sometimes after running a while will not restart. No click, no nothing. The light dies when I hit the start button. Does that mean the start button is working? When it Does finally fire the solenoid it cranks as if it is all full of life. Not dragging around barely cranking over. I have bypassed the kickstand switch & clutch switch. Is there another switch I need to bypass? |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by grandpa on 12/05/06 at 14:49:26 Have only had my bike about two months so I am not real familiar with the mechanicals. If it were a car I would say your solenoid sitch is bad. It sends the power to the starter when the key is turned. Should have a solenoid switch of somekind but don't know if it's in the starter or seperate. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by vroom1776 on 12/05/06 at 14:51:42 What you need to do is to get another bike... one to ride, one to fix... if the headlight is dying on start, you have a short... wait, maybe not, what year is it? |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/05/06 at 15:04:09 It's an 05 Boulevard. It's sposed to kill the light when the starter is running. Since it is does that mean the starter switch is doing its job? If the solenoid was bad it would click & not turn the starter? Like when the car solenoid went south? I can't even hear the decomp solenoid pull, but that doesn't mean it isn't. It might be pretty quiet. Thanks for the thoughts. P.S. Vroom, please send second bike. Will ride Immediately! (Better be a Savage or an Italian bike, yes beggars CAN be choosers.. ;) ) |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by vroom1776 on 12/05/06 at 15:30:32 yeah, sounds like the starter switch is working... if yout ake off the left side engine top cover (it's purely cosmetic), you should be able to see the decomp lever. when you press the starter switch, you should see the lever move. I do not recall offhand how much noise the starter relay, not solenoid (okay, maybe it's a solenoid...? but it functions as a relay) makes. I seem to recall that it should click. I doubt it is broken, though, but it might be. SO... if it's not clicking, it's prolly no good, or not getting juice itself. You may want to take off the starter motor and test it. be careful, it likes to spin! You can directly connect the hot/red lead of a 12V batter to the little post, and the other/black/ground/cold lead to where it bolts to the engine. If it spins like crazy, it works, assuming you have a good battery. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by ND on 12/05/06 at 15:32:55 My '04 did that and the problem was that an electrical connector under the seat was getting pinched between the seat and the frame when I sat on the bike. Apparently this caused a break in the current. I moved the connector around so that this couldn't happen and I've had no more problems. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/05/06 at 15:55:44 I have poked around a bit more & here's what I am seeing. The decomp is noisy when it gets power. That IS the click I hear when the starter engages. Gonna find the solenoid next. I have found the decomp controller. When it gets power it can be felt, like any relay. IF it gets power it works. IF the decomp solenoid gets power it works. I will look for any wires that I have crushed, tho in my studying this thing I think I would have spotted it, but I will make a conscious effort now. The starter switch on the handlebar dims the headlight BEFORe it sends power to the decomp controller. I am starting to wonder about the starter switch but the fact it always cranks cold makes me wonder how it could be the switch when it seems like the "fail to crank" problem is related to having been run & that switch is far from heat . I am baffled! BTW, doesn't even almost upset me to be having this problem. That doesn't mean I don't want help, just that I am learning a lot about this bike I wouldn't learn if I didn't have any problems. I will share what I learn so if anyone else finds this problem maybe this will help. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by Paladin on 12/05/06 at 17:16:52 justin_o_guy wrote:
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by thumperclone on 12/05/06 at 17:20:26 Paladin wrote:
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/05/06 at 19:00:56 You had no noise? Not a hint the start switch was pushed? I have had it with the prob. The battery is at 12.25 v after several times of just clicking & not starting. I was messing around, not starting it just clicking & cranking then thought to check voltage. So I beat it down then checked it at 12.25. I need to check after I run it a while. I won't get shut down again. I installed a switch under the right side of the frame to make it start. It will crank without a key in it. Lets see if this gets it to start when it's being a pain,, he he he ,, thanks for the input, Please respond to tjhe question Paladin . If your bike clicked like it was trying to start, there is a difference. Maybe I should pull the battery again.. I did it about 2 months ago.. Thanks all! |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/07/06 at 04:12:19 OKay, it wouldn't crank when I tried to leave a restaurant yesterday. Hit the start button & NUTHIN, no click, nada. Hit the little button I added & it fired right up. Conclusion? Since the clutch & kickstand switches are bypassed & since my button fires the decomp timer & not just the starter solenoid, the only thing it can be is the starter switch itself. Or a busted wire or bad connection, which I will look for one day, but for now my problem is solved. Thanks for the input, I hope this helps someone someday. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by vroom1776 on 12/07/06 at 10:20:43 where'd you stick the switch? what current rating did you use? I imagine a 6A switch ought to handle it. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/07/06 at 10:39:59 6 a?? Naaahhh. I ripped a tiny little switch off the control panel of a dead dvd player. Ran a wire from the input of the decomp solenoid to the switch, ran the other lead to the red wire under the seat. It is always hot & it will turn over without a key in the ignition when I push the button. I stuck the switch, still on a section of the circuit board, in 2 fingers , one inside the other, of a nitrile glove for waterproofing. Naturally liberal amounts of electrical tape were used. To connect to the decomp solenoid & the red wire I used automotive fuse taps. I used zip ties & mounted the switch under the frame rail on the right side with one tie in fron of & 1 behind the bar the tank mount bolts run thru. How long will this miniature switch take the punishment? No idea. All I did was isolate the problem & give myself hope of getting home. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by vroom1776 on 12/07/06 at 10:50:36 you may want to try something more like this: Light switch mod (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1130526053;start=2#0) The swithc will be a little more durable. I've broken 1 so far, but that's mostly cause it's a hard tail, switching it while hitting a nasty pothole. I'm still debating the practicallity of removing the starter relay myself. you've been in there recently. Any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/07/06 at 11:13:18 U mean pulling the solenoid & just jumping a hot wire straight onto the starter manually? Like an old truck with the floor switch ? I thot of that, too.. ;D Not out of the question. But, I do think it's easier & just as practical to used a solenoid. They rarely just up & fail w/o warning.Thanks for the link, haven't gone there yet. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by vroom1776 on 12/07/06 at 11:22:05 yeah, that's the idea. I simply want to get rid of the relay for the sake of getting rid of it. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/07/06 at 11:44:39 Hech, I spose a guy could stick a rod up on the threads coming out of the starter & have a spring loaded pivot mounted on the metal filler plate rear of the starter with a hot wire on it. All you would have to do is rest a toe on the right engine case & let your heel drive it down & make contact. If I ever rat this thing I will do that. I guess a crown nut on the starter stud would be a good deal. Signed,,,, Les Izmore |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by Reelthing on 12/08/06 at 05:28:45 justin_o_guy wrote:
Might want to check that battery voltage first thing some morning after the it's been sitting over night with out any charger on it - under 12.3v the ign doesn't fire properly if at all |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by mornhm on 12/08/06 at 06:01:53 Justin_o_guy If you do some searching you'll find a discussion of me troubleshooting and then repairing my starter switch. Basically the contacts were pitted and needed "dressed." Be careful when you take the switch apart, there are fiddly bits inside. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/08/06 at 07:45:37 Thanks,Mornhm. I am gettin myself "In the mood" for diggin in that switch. Fiddly bits & I have a long history. I didn't say it was always a successful history.. ;) But I have a fair batting average. REELTHING, I will check it but I just got back from a seriousl chilly ride, so the bike is all warmed up & the battery isn't stable. When I left it was about 25. I was wearing about 15 pounds of stuff on top of just plain clothes & I STILL got pretty cold. I am gonna have to get some dedicated motorcycle cothes..Gonna have to start a thread on that & get somne advice,, |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by justin_o_guy on 12/08/06 at 08:34:15 Mornhm, I have spent more than 1/2 hour trying to locate your post. I (unless you can help me find it) will just have to forgo the "leg up" you experience would offer me & walk off in it. I have repaired copiers & cash registers with very little training. Sometimes I did finish them off , tho, sad when that happens,, ;)That's the beauty of workin on busted stuff. Sometimes it just doesn't fix.BUT, this bike is gonna get fixed. I would like access to a used start switch before I go into this just in case I tank it. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by mornhm on 12/08/06 at 10:58:14 I searched for topics started by me (changed the number of days to 5000) that contained dress and it popped right up. Unfortunately I don't know how to put a link to a topic in a post. Anyway the topic was: Hey, something new happened to me I started it back in September of 2005 Hope this helps. Edited to add: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1127418695;start=11#11 |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by SeeAPierce on 12/08/06 at 13:59:50 I just determined that my kill switch is intermittent giving me the same result: headlights dim ('06), but no start. :-/ I'll be digging into that switch soon, I just don't want to spend the $$ to replace the entire assembly for one switch. I may just bypass it... :P |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem... Post by Steve530 on 12/08/06 at 16:49:58 You may already know this, but loose or corroded contacts will create more resistance in the circuit. The increased resistance will drop the voltage. So if your battery is at low voltage and there is added resistance, there might not be enough voltage to trigger the solenoids. Also, as the circuit heats up, the resistance increases. This might explain one of the symptoms you're having: cold starting alright, warm starting difficult. Since the "kill" switch carries current anytime the motor is running, it seems to be a likely candidate in this scenario. You might want to start there. |
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Title: Re: Intermittent start problem...SOLVED!!! Post by justin_o_guy on 12/09/06 at 18:33:45 I found the start button had some kind of grease on the contacts. That button is easy to disassemble & repair. It's almost as if they expected it to need work. I did notice while I was in there that the kill switch looks like an easy to crap out piece. Thanks all for the sugestions. Since the start circuit seems a bit flaky I am very glad I have added an emergency start button. I will leave it right where it is. |
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