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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Exhaust design (open pipe) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1165925834 Message started by klx650sm2002 on 01/27/05 at 07:56:51 |
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Title: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 01/27/05 at 07:56:51 RPM vs. length 3000 = 78" 3500 = 67" 4000 = 59" 4500 = 52" 5000 = 47" 5500 = 43" 6000 = 39" 6500 = 36" Where lengths are too long to fit half them, only if you have to. I've been measuring my std. carb (40mm CV) and if you take the area of the butterfly spindle off the carb area you will have the equivalent area of a 37mm slide carb (my formula is based on slide carbs). So all you guys with std. carbs should use a 38mm (1.5") i.d. header with the lengths shown above for what revs you want + 32mm (1.25"). Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/03/05 at 07:21:24 I know this is of limited interest to most of you but if anybody has any questions about their exhaust I'll do my best to answer. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/04/05 at 00:02:04 Not at all … thanks! There is no mention of diameter so resonance is the only function of this good old straight pipe? While cruising in the pits, most headers seen now use a two or three step primary pipe w/ increasing diameter to prevent reversion. Then, most use a megaphone w/ a 2nd taper or reverse cone at the end. How do they calculate all that stuff? ??? I remember reading an article on 2-stroke expansion chambers that seemed to explain some of this. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/04/05 at 07:44:18 I've been designing pipes for a pro race team + customers for more than 10 years. I've done pipes for 1,2 and 4 cyl two and four stroke. I don't want to divulge my formulas, but would like to help those thinking of having a pipe made. The thing I think should be kept in mind is that the Savage is a road 'bike in a low state of tune, not a race 'bike. I do state an i.d. based on carb size and tube available (if you can find a tube with 37mm i.d. there would be no need to add the 32mm to the overall length). When I'm designing a race pipe I use tapers in the headers and steps in the tailpipe (mostly fours) With it's tame cams and a small bore pipe there is no reversion worth talking about. A reverse cone mega is a V good race pipe but disastrous as a road pipe where it's sharply defined powerband and poor running both above and especially below the powerband make it very difficult to live with. Thanks for your time Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 00:16:33 Cool, across the pond "Savage" racing would not be a living. What sort of racin' would that be? |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 00:49:29 Sidecar F1 + F2 and classic solos mostly. Like drag racing. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 00:55:48 ...like with the "monkeys!? :)" |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 00:59:52 You wouldn't call a turbo 'Busa a road bike in a low state of tune. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 01:04:21 Yes monkeys is one term for them. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 01:08:24 I have only seen side car racing on video. :-/ Looks like fun. There twould'nt be any drinkin afterwards amongst monkeys and drivers would there be?! ;D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 01:16:21 There are "drinking teams" but ours isn't one of them. the team boss builds sidecar chassis for a living, he's building an F1 (long 'bike 1000cc) and is racing an F2 (short 'bike 600cc) we are just over 200bhp/liter with the F2 and more to come. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 01:26:17 I'll bet Your drag racer puts out a darned site more than 200bhp/liter. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 01:30:07 What qualities make a good "monkey"? |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 01:38:02 Light weight 130 to 150 lbs athletic and not easily scared. Tony (the boss) has a daughter who passengers for another team and she's good. The passenger can steer the 'bike quite a lot. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 02:05:39 klx650sm2002 wrote:
I dunno 200/l is good, when you put it that way. It's in the wee hours here and we are a drinking team and the team was out during the off season tonight! I would fiddle w/ the calculator but the marguaritas are taking effect now, so I leave it to you. :P 1350hp/532 c.i. (would just as soon break something as go straight). Motor is not state of the art but competitive. Have a new set of carbs to set up yet. The big Dominators were not compatable w/ current running gear. cheers :) |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/05/05 at 02:19:16 No substitute for cubes, your engine is 8.7 liters and makes 155bhp/liter, whats the valve sizes and cam timing. We have 150cc cylnders with 40mm throttle bodies 2* 25mm inlets, 2* 22mm exh with 280 degrees for both, can't remember the lifts. What fuel do you run ? Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by lordzamize on 02/05/05 at 10:21:11 Just a quick question regarding exhaust design. Anyone know if there are issues in removing the baffle and plate from a 97 savage? I've already tapped two holes in the plate, and the bike has a great sound. I'm curious if removing the baffle and plate all together will affect the bike in a negative way. Z |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 10:55:04 Fuel is VP C-25. http://www.nhra.com/media/1999/121602.html Steve Schmidt builds the motors, http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/ssr_003.htm |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Mr 650 on 02/05/05 at 11:51:33 lordzamize wrote:
No problem, but there is still some restrictions in there. 1st thing I did, took a long 1/2" service/entry bit and drilled through mine until I could see daylight straight through the muffler. I was dissappointed, it still sounded sorta like a lawn mower. It was apparent that it needed packing like the "Hartman modification". I have 2 or three mufflers sitting around and plannned to try the Hartman mod sometime. I lost interest after installation of the Supertrapp. I wanted to open up the muffler, and pack the rear baffle like the Hartman then have both the head pipe & "Hartman" modifed muffler coated, but then the 'Trapp seemed to do the trick w/o the work and you can swap the end caps from open (bike night) to closed (touring) as needed. ;) |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by lordzamize on 02/05/05 at 12:45:13 So, technically, I could get away with it, and the bike wouldn't be harmed. The only issue is that there are restrictions left over, even after doing what I stated before. Kewl. Z |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/06/05 at 01:27:28 On My KLX the std. silencer had an exit diameter of 20mm. I put a slightly bigger header on and a new (stainless) silencer with a 40mm outlet. Modifying the exhaust is a cheap option and will give good results. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Max_Morley on 02/13/05 at 19:47:30 Clive, have a follow-up question to your straight pipe chart. When using a muffler with a center baffle (HD FXD glasspac, at point of sale claimed to be Screamin'Eagle, but has a 80dba rating so I doubt it) on my Savage with a Original RAASK headpipe, what effect (besides noise reduction) doe the center baffle have? The setup works well and is not obnoxious, but I have been thinking about a chambered muffler to enhance the deeper tones. Also at onetime a responder on Bert's forum indicated (if my memory serves me) that glass packs have more resistance than standard muffler as engine speed and exhaust flow goes up? Can you either explain or deny this? Thanks Max |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/14/05 at 09:19:11 Sorry I'm not familiar with the term center baffle. I allways use absorption type silencers (perforated tube,glass pack.Is this what You mean). The i.d. of the silencer must be at least 12% greater than the i.d. of the header (I use 23% on KLX). There are two reasons for this, good flow and the step is retained at the end of the header (I use two steps 3" apart on KLX to spread the power out a little) I intend using two chambered silencers on my SR/XT project but it's many months till i hear that run. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Max_Morley on 02/15/05 at 20:22:13 Center baffler = stop (restriction) in the the middle of the muffler that forces the exhaust through the perforations in the front half to come out the perforations in the back half before exiting. So your experience has been good using "glasspacs" of the proper diameter and you have not experienced high RPM restrictions? I was not able to envision it causing restrictions but am not an engineer so the science of that I've not studied. Max |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/16/05 at 02:53:52 I like "glasspacks" and as long as the i.d. is big enough (at least 12% more i.d. than the header,more is ok but definately not less) they are not restrictive. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/17/05 at 05:00:36 If you have fitted your glass pack and are looking for a touch more silencing you could fit an insert into the exit of the silencer reducing it's area to that of the header, 38mm i.d. in this case. Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by klx650sm2002 on 02/20/05 at 02:16:58 If it were my Savage I would use a 1.5" i.d. 44.25" long header mated to a 1.875" i.d. silencer (should be able to get a step pipe from a exhaust shop) with an insert as stated above (need to know someone with a lathe). Clive W :D |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by vroom1776 on 12/11/06 at 13:51:07 KLX, What would you suggest as the best glasspack for savage w/ 1) stock carb and head pipe? 2) stock head pipe and roundslide carb? Assume that all carbs have KN filters directly bolted to them... Presently I'm running a 1.75" ID (all the way through) with a 38mm mikuni VM roundslide with a stock header pipe, but wrapped. Thses are the GPs I have easy access to. (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_10001_10002_13797_-1_10265) Now, just for S&Giggles, what if the cam had been reground a bit, say like lancer's (or do you need specific #s for this?)? Thanks, V |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by vroom1776 on 12/12/06 at 09:45:18 yeah, this was in the tech section as of yesterday (dec 11, 2006)...? mods? KLX, thanks, that is the kind of info I am looking for! yes, those exhaust ports do need "some" work, to say the least! |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by Savage_Rob on 12/12/06 at 11:28:54 I moved it because it turned into a conversation. That forum is for technical reference materials and the posting guidelines clearly state not to post questions there. Discussion, questions and comments of materials in the tech ref forum belong in either the RSD or Cafe forums. If pertinent information comes up in conversation, it can be added to a thread there but the idea is to avoid having to wade through all the talk to get to the main info like you do in the other forums. The choice came down to deleting all of the talk or moving the thread. I opted to move the thread. Then choice info can either be boiled down or excerpted from it to a new thread in the Tech Ref forum. |
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Title: Re: Exhaust design (open pipe) Post by vroom1776 on 12/12/06 at 11:32:01 okay! just seemd strange as it moved all of a sudden. There is a good deal of useful info in here. |
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