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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
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Message started by Rockin_John on 12/15/06 at 01:26:16

Title: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by Rockin_John on 12/15/06 at 01:26:16

Hi Folks,

Short questions: Does anyone know of any 4 inch or so longer 15cm diameter fork tubes that will fit into the stock triple trees and lower legs of the Savage? Am I right that shocks from some model Suzuki or others are a bolt-on fit and are an inch or two taller? (I know Progressive makes longer shocks, but I'm trying to poor-boy this project.)

I'm considering raising the overall ride height and fork length of my old '87 (The Ox). My intent is to do this without changing the 35-degree rake angle. I hope to work through the calculations and anticipate what handling characteristics to expect. Higher center of gravity, or course, but I don't think a couple of inches of that will hurt the Savage much. Especially with my big self squishing the suspension down. ;)

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by lancer on 12/15/06 at 07:19:51

The shocks are easy, just pick up a set of longer Progressives on ebay (it may take a few attempts to get what you want at the price you want ... just be patient and bid bid bid). The 14mm inserts to make it possible to mount the Progressive shocks to the Savage are part #5011-051, and will cost about $12 + shp.
If you want to raise the front end and do it cheaply then do not replace the forks, just replace the fork springs with a longer set. Progressive fork springs retail for about $50. Take out the stock springs and measure them ( diameter and length) and then call Progressive with the info of what you need.

You should be able to do front and rear for less than $200, maybe even $150.

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by luken on 12/15/06 at 07:30:16

Could you document what you end up doing? That is high on my list of things to do.

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by Rockin_John on 12/15/06 at 11:09:00

luken wrote:

Could you document what you end up doing? That is high on my list of things to do.

I'll post whatever suspension changes I eventually make.

Here is what I've already discovered through figures input to a frame geometry calculator: Since the Savage has 5.8" trail as stock; If the fork legs are lengthened 4" without raising the rear end, the "trail" will increase to about 7" and that is beyond the 3"-6" figure that is considered desireable for good handling on the street.

I figure raising the rear a couple of inches with shocks and a bigger tire will decrease the rake angle by a couple of degrees, and therefore decrease the trail a bit also. (Or at least keep the raised front from increasing the rake and making the trail beyond reason.)

As an interesting sideline: I've discovered that the folks who have put longer shocks and big tires on the back of their Savage, probably have had positive handling results as opposed to a "big mistake" and messing up the stock geometry as one rider was told by a dealer. That is if you prefer a bit more nimble feel to your steering. I don't mind that feeling myself. Just increasing my handlebar width to 32" made my Savage handle a great deal better IMO. Your Mileage May Vary.

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by lancer on 12/15/06 at 17:35:03

I have 12.5" Progressive 418's on the back and it did result in a noticeable improvement in steering quickness/response which I like a lot.
Once I have the Ceriani forks mounted I will be able to make some significant changes in the geometry since the fork tubes will slide up and down in the triple trees 6-8" ... and that is a lot where this is concerned.

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6lQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXPJo%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0Qeo0elJ0oqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPJo%7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,332,442

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXPJa%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0Qeo0elJ0GqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXPJa%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/16/06 at 00:42:37

If you look closely you can see there is about 30mm of ride height adjustment on the forks and preload adjustment front and rear.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o147/klx650sm2002/SR500nopipe.jpg
Clive W :D

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by Rockin_John on 12/16/06 at 02:28:18

lancer wrote:

I also see that the t- tree's fork tube to steering neck offset looks like about 1.5" as opposed to the 2.5" on the stock Savage tree. That's going to change geometry a lot too.

Man that sliding adjustment on the forks looks like an ideal situation. Get tired of the handling on one setting, just change it for a while!

But here is a warning: If that tree offset is really only 1.5" or less, you are looking at taking your trail figure way out of range, especially if you jack the front end up a few inches.

I made some previous guesstimates on your probable resulting trail geometry, but I forgot that you are changing wheel sizes too... What will your new wheel and tire sizes be?

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by Rockin_John on 12/16/06 at 02:49:38

klx650sm2002 wrote:

That should prove really handy for fine tuning handling. I remember you saying that your mono-shock swingarm was from an RD400? I had a couple of friends with those, but I don't remember that setup. Even back then, when my friends were crazy for the super quick Yamaha RD bikes, I prefered the SR500. It was just a really fun bike to ride.

Went on a test ride on a brand new one in 1978, and remember that was the first street bike I ever got the rear wheel off the ground with by grabbing a big handfull of front brake! :o

Eventually did own an SR in the late 80s after having had every one of its big brothers in the XS line at one time or another. Still wish I had my XS650 Special II twin :(

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/16/06 at 03:00:02

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o147/klx650sm2002/SR500nopipe.jpg
The wheels,discs,swingarm(50mm shorter) and forks are all yamaha TZR250, the monoshock is RD350LC.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Substitute Longer Fork Tubes and Shocks?
Post by lancer on 12/16/06 at 05:17:45

Here is the profile view

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6lQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXP0e%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0QeolneoonqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXP0e%7CRup6aQQ%7C/of=50,332,442

Top view

http://render2.snapfish.com/render2/is=Yup6aQQ%7C%3Dup6%3DzqH%3AxxqUD7qRUrKxzX7BHpUUKxgXP0l%3F87KR6xqpxQQQaxJQexJlGxv8uOc5xQQQ0QeolneoPJqpfVtB%3F*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXP0l%7CRup6lQQ%7C/of=50,590,442