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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Pilot jet sizes /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1205100361 Message started by YonuhAdisi on 03/09/08 at 15:06:01 |
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Title: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/09/08 at 15:06:01 Is there a pilot jet size between the stock 52.5 and 55? After rebuilding the FireLizard's engine I had to put the stock 52.5 pilot back in because it was flooding it with the 55 and of course that gave me the usual shot gun blast back firing on decel. I just tried to put the 55 back in and it floods it out. Is there a jet between those two sizes? I have run a search but could not find an answer. By the way, I have tried to adjust the pilot screw to no avail. Right now I am running half spacer, 152.5 main, and at the moment I have the 55 pilot in it. I am at approximately 4500 to 5000 ft ASL (Above Sea Level). Any suggestions if there is no in-between jet? |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/09/08 at 19:13:35 Apparently, I have been researching this all day and I reckon there isn't an in-between pilot jet size. I wonder if I replaced the white spacer with some washers to go back to the original thickness if that might take care of it. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by JakeB on 03/09/08 at 20:07:05 The idle mixture screw is meant to fine tune the idle circuit, so it is the "in between" jets. But if you absolutely think you need to, and you have a large drill index you could drill the 52.5 out just a little bit. The white spacer affects the mixture between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle, so it doesn't have anything to do with the idle. If your running rich in that area then definately find some way to make that spacing thicker. So basicaly, if the mixture is off in the closed to 1/4 throttle range, adjust the idle mixture screw in (leaner) or out (richer) (up a pilot jet when 3 turns out, down if 0 turns out.) If it's off in the 1/4 to 3/4 range then add (leaner) or remove (richer) thickness on the white spacer. If it's off in the 3/4 to WOT range then go up a main jet size (richer) or down a size (leaner). JakeB |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by LANCER on 03/09/08 at 21:17:02 Quote:
If you are not getting any change/response when you adjust the pilot air screw then you have some clogged passageways inside the carb. Pull it and clean it from the inside out ... every tiny hole ... then it will work properly when you turn the screw. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/10/08 at 15:54:59 707D727F796E2E2B1C0 wrote:
This is especially directed at you Lancer since you're the carb guru around these parts. An ol' boy came by the house while I was trying to tune the carb and said pretty much the same as you about some passages may be clogged, but here is where I need confirmation or denile. He told me that I could clean the carb by getting a couple of gallons of high octane mixed with about a cup of rubbing alcohol and run it through my tank. He said it would clean the carb very well. Now this guy says he usually works on twin cylindered bikes. Would this actually work or would it destroy something? |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by JakeB on 03/10/08 at 16:21:44 You can also buy the fuel additives that are meant to clean carbs and fuel injectors, but the way I see it is if the passage is blocked then it would take a long time for those additives to dissovle the gunk in there. I've had jets that were so gunked up that I couldn't stick a piece of wire through them, I had to burn it out by heating the jet up with a torch, and I don't see why if it could happen to a jet, it couldn't happen to any passage in the carb. JakeB |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by bill67 on 03/10/08 at 16:53:38 High octane gas is suppose have some cleaners in. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by Max_Morley on 03/10/08 at 17:07:10 All fuel has cleaners/deposit preventers/removers in it. From what I've read there isn't necessarily more in premium fuel, but they would like you t think there is. I think Sea Foam* works well and if you let it sit in the carb bowl it may -may being the operative word- loosen and dissolve the material in the air bleeds in the carb upper 1/2 that are not exposed to liquid normally. When the air bleeds are partially or wholly plugged the carb circuit doesn't operate as intended and usually richness is the result. * Sea Foam is available at most auto parts houses and Wally world usually. It is a liquid concentrate usable in both the fuel and lubrication systems. My only experience and recommendation is for the fuel system. It is a winter fuel stabilizer also so mine gets a dose in the Fall and again in the spring and averages 50-55 MPG with me and all the hard bags and fairing hitting the wind. So far I've experienced no negative effects from it. Max |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by LANCER on 03/10/08 at 20:23:46 Can't say about the mixture the guy recommended, but I do know that if you want to BE ABSOLUTELY SURE that the jets and passages are clean and free flowing NOW, there is only one way to do it and that is to remove the carb...take it apart and manually clean it. I have had to use wire to remove the gunk from jets and passages before. Waiting for a fuel mix to dissolve it could take forever. Taking a carb off the Savage, cleaning it and putting it back on can be done in an hour. I mean there is just not that many parts to the thing and it is down right simple, so working on it is very easy. Besides, it is a great way to learn how the carb goes together and works, which is something that is always good to know. Just go ahead and jump in with all 3 feet, you will learn good things and have fun to boot. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/10/08 at 20:28:15 565B54595F48080D3A0 wrote:
That is what I will be doing once I get enough time to do it that does not interfere with the honey-do list. Which means probably next Wednesday. I was just curious if this guy knew what he was talking about or if he was full of sh*t. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/17/08 at 17:06:42 Well, I have the carb completely torn apart and now just waiting for the wife to return with some carb cleaner. (gonna use some of her fine craft wire to snake the passages. Yes, she gave me permission, she wants the FireLizard running as perfect as possible as well) Right now I got all the parts separated on my work bench and covered (dang cats that love to steal small parts and lose them) so I should return to the garage with everything still there. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by LANCER on 03/17/08 at 19:03:37 Oh boy, we're having some fun now ! ! ! :D |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/19/08 at 10:30:14 I was putting my carb back together after cleaning it (all passages clear now) and noticed that the o-ring underneath the pilot air screw is missing. I have no idea how long it has been gone because when I removed the old pilot screw all that came out with it was the spring and washer. If I am correct, the missing o-ring may be most of my carb problem. So question is, am I correct in that the missing o-ring could be most if not all of the problem I have been having, or is it insignificant? I will be going to the hardware store today to get some allen head bolts (finally going to replace those soft as heck phillips head screws) and was wondering if any one knew the size of that rubber o-ring. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/19/08 at 18:09:05 Okay, put in new o-ring, and bolted carb back together with allen head bolts. Bike fires up nice but I still can't tune the SOB. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by JakeB on 03/19/08 at 19:36:20 Without that o-ring a little air could be sucked into the idle circuit, and could possibly affect the tuning. Make sure the o-ring you get is resistant to gas, not all o-rings are created equal. Have you taken the idle mixture screw out and looked at the end? Maybe the end got messed up/broken off, it's not difficult to nick them up turning them in too far. JakeB |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/19/08 at 20:23:32 I have replaced my old pilot screw because of being stripped. The one I have in now is maybe a couple of months old and in perfect condition. The o-ring I put in there was from Lowes, I will probably have to fo ahead and order one from the Suzuki stealership after all as the one I have in now is not exactly a perfect fit. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/20/08 at 14:33:00 I think I might have finally got the carb tuned. At least to the best of my ability. I will find out for sure here in a little while. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/22/08 at 10:09:00 Well, that didn't work, I am now flooding out and my pilot air screw is not turned out that far. All I can think is just order the actual o-ring that goes behind it instead of the one I got from Lowes and see if that will help it. If not, I may just need to get a new carb all together. I know I don't need to go down a pilot jet size. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/24/08 at 14:03:33 Just picked up the proper o-ring from the stealership and it is just a tad bit smaller in both diameter and thickness than the one I had picked up from Lowes. Gonna swap it out soon and will report back on the progress. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/25/08 at 21:02:41 That didn't work either blast it!!! The carb is really starting to anger me. I have replaced the oring, cleaned the carb, and everything I can think of and that blasted carb is still flooding out on me. Would the slide sticking cause the flooding out problem? |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by verslagen1 on 03/25/08 at 22:57:45 52.5 pilot gave me shot gun blast back firing on decel. 55 back in and it floods it out. By the way, I have tried to adjust the pilot screw to no avail. I have replaced my old pilot screw because of being stripped. Just wanted to go thru the symptoms it might point you in the right way. 1st, shot gun blast, it does it on decel, also shut down? When my header leaked (loose bolts) I got the blast on decel and sometimes shifting, and shutdown (if I remember correctly, it's been a while) Tightening the header bolts resulted in the normal poof on shut down. ;D 2nd, floods out, only at idle? 3rd, you have replaced the pilot screw, was it the right one? Sounds like there are 2 different types from what another has said. Did the ends look alike? same length? etc. I would say check the header gasket and the muffler connection for leak (candle flame sounds like a good way to check) You can drill out the 52 to match the 55 or some where inbetween. Personally, I wouldn't do this, but only as a last resort just before you get the shotgun. ;D I think either you got the wrong 55 or the pilot screw is the wrong one. But check the header 1st. ;D |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by JakeB on 03/26/08 at 07:10:45 Try checking your compression. Low compression can create some wacky symptoms that can look like fuel delivery problems. JakeB |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by Reelthing on 03/26/08 at 07:27:10 7147465D40694C415B41280 wrote:
you bet, big time - when it goes back together it needs to be very clean and it's bore - no oil no greasy finger prints - otherwise the slide will push all the grime to the bottom of the bore - form a little ring and prevent the it from seating all the way - this in turn leaves the needle a little high in the needle jet tube and will flood the engine at low rpms |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by JakeB on 03/26/08 at 08:34:38 If the slide was sticking wouldn't it be impossible to adjust the idle? I can see that it would let in more fuel, but it would have to let in more air at the same time, which would make the bike idle very high. JakeB |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by Reelthing on 03/26/08 at 09:02:58 not really as the throttle plate on the intake side would be closed |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by JakeB on 03/26/08 at 12:58:32 Right you are. Don't you have another savage? If so, and it runs well, why not try switching the carbs and see what happens? If the problems follow the carb then it's the carb, if not then at least you won't drive yourself crazy trying to fix the carb when the problem is elsewhere. Just throwing that out there cause it seems like you've tried just about everything on the carb. JakeB |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 03/26/08 at 21:12:41 1B303A3413510 wrote:
No, I only have the one Savage. But after riding back and forth to work for a couple of days, I have decided the FireLizard is afraid of the dark. Riding to work, 12:00 or 1:00 o'clock she runs fine, coming home 9:30 or 10:00 at night she floods out as soon as I reach my drive way. I'm thinking slide is sticking in the cooler air at night or there is something going on about air density. I have been racking my brains to figure it out. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/01/08 at 17:33:54 Okay, got the carb tore apart again in an attempt to find the gremlin bell immune gremlin. If I find that little SOB I am gonna wring it's scrawny little neck and feed it to my cats. I priced a new carb at the stealership and they want 500 bucks for it. I can get a brand new Holley double pumper for my truck for a lot less than that. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by Reelthing on 04/01/08 at 18:13:25 6C5A5B405D74515C465C350 wrote:
wow - stay away from the stealing dealers on such a thing the online folks aren't a lot better $363 hopefully it won't come to that |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by verslagen1 on 04/01/08 at 19:46:56 There's one one ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/S7-SUZUKI-SAVAGE-CARB-CARBURATOR-650-LS-CARBS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ50462QQihZ025QQitemZ380012782835QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW and you do a lot better with lancer than the darn stealership. They'd give you the carb in a box and maybe say thank you for your money. lancer will give you cables, fuel filter, manual, jets. Yeah, maybe you'll have to do some tuning, but you'd do that anyway. ;D |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/02/08 at 19:22:15 I don't want to say this too loudly but I think I got it. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by verslagen1 on 04/02/08 at 19:28:03 eyew |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by Strafford_Guy on 04/02/08 at 22:43:53 YonuhAdisi, did you get the carb issue resolved? If so what worked? ~Strafford~ |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/02/08 at 23:29:54 I should know for sure tomorrow if I actually managed to resolve the carb issue. Gonna take it on a longer run to the next town and see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/03/08 at 13:49:06 Well, can't take that ride to the next town because I got called in to work. But maybe the ride to work will be a long enough test. Will report back when I get home on how it did. If it worked, I will say what I did to the carb. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/03/08 at 20:47:38 Okay, a little more tweaking of the pilot screw and I should have it just about perfect. Here's what I did. I took the carb apart again as you know and this time I took some very fine emery cloth to the slide. I sanded it lengthwise along the slide and then shot the snot out of it with carb cleaner. I then completely pulled out the pilot screw and re-installed it making dang sure the oring seated properly. That's pretty much all I did to it. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/07/08 at 17:31:22 Just replaced the spark plug and dang, was the old one black, it had all kinds of carbon on it. I also found out that for what the stealership charges for one plug, I can get two from advanced auto. |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by LANCER on 04/07/08 at 19:51:26 DOIN GOOD ... KEEP AT IT UNTIL IT SUBMITS IN HUMBLE OBEDIENCE. :D |
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Title: Re: Pilot jet sizes Post by YonuhAdisi on 04/07/08 at 20:14:54 Oh I plan on it. I think there may be an off spring of the gremlin I just fed to my cats, but I will chase it down too. Right now, I can fire the bike up without even touching the throttle and it idles without having to sit there and warm it up. No back fire on deceleration but I do still get a backfire on shutdown though. (sounds about like an angry black cat firecracker in a mailbox.) I still get a slight stutter on the low end, but otherwise it is doing a heck of a lot better than it was. |
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