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Message started by Chopped on 04/04/08 at 05:25:02

Title: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/04/08 at 05:25:02

I am in the process of getting a previously running 2000 Savage running right. Here is what I have done and what I need help on.

I bought it with a small oil leak around the Head Gasket and the oil plug that has been mentioned entirely way too many times before. It had a bit of a back fire when the motor was under strain, ie, downshifting or deceleration. I pulled the spacer out of the carburator and adjusted the idle screw as mentioned in here. I pulled the head cover and head off, replaced gasekts and cleaned where appropiate. Now it is leaking more oil from the aformentioned areas. I tightened the bolts back to spec by what the dealership told me (which may have been wrong, cause I don't have a manual) and put the rest of the bike back together.

Now, not only am I leaking oil, but it doesn't really backfire anymore, it deisels when I pull the clutch in. By deiseling, I mean it sounds like I have 10-15 small backfires in my pip when I let of the gas. It will even do it when I pull on the throttle in nuetral. I think the timing may have been boogered up a bit when I took the Head off. I just want to fix this darn think so I can ride it to and fro as I see fit. Oh, I used a straight edge to check and see if my head may have been warped and only saw a minor spot in it that would still fall within specs.

here is what I am looking for:

Head bolt tightening order

is it the timing or spark related to my deiseling.

On a side note, I am going to be putting this motor on my Chopper when I get the frame done. Can't wait. i will post specs when I get a chance

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by skrapiron on 04/04/08 at 06:15:50

When you replaced the head gaskets, did you replace the oil plug in the head as well? That is the most common source for oil leaks. Unfortunately, it means removing the head to get to it.

As for tightening the head bolts, there used to be a recommended torque guide on the old Savage site. I can't find it on the new one. Anyway, the bolts should be torqued down to 20ft/lb (I may be wrong... Sluggo or other more experienced wrenches can correct that).
When tightening the bolts, do so in a cris-cross pattern, not a circular pattern. Once all the bolts are torqued to spec cris-cross, then you can go back and check them singly, in a circular pattern.

When assembling a head, I tend to use a little RTV sealer on both mating surfaces (not so much that it squishes out and gets knocked into the head) but just enough to 'glue' the gasket to the cylinder and hold it in place. It also fills small imperfections in the mating surfaces and can prevent pinhole leaks.

As for your backfire. That is most likely cause by an exhaust leak. Either from the header pipe (where it comes out of the block) or where your muffler and header meet. Tighten the header bolts (again, I don't recall the correct torque. Ask Sluggo) then loosen the muffler clamp, push the muffler FIRMLY against the header pipe, reposition the clamp so it fits over the crush gasket, then tighten the clamp FIRMLY.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by thumperclone on 04/04/08 at 07:04:31

you removed the white spacer completly? if so re read carb tuning section you needed to shave it not remove it..

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by vroom1776 on 04/04/08 at 07:09:16

get a manual!

tigthen the head in a crosswise fashion.

also, see the tech sect table of contents. some where torque specs are listed.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/04/08 at 07:20:41

I will work on this when I get off work tonight! I have to get it running right for a MSF course on the 18th. I am just frustrated. I think I am just rusty at working on these things. Its been about 8 years since I really woked on a bike. Oh, can I get an exhaust pipe gasket at the local auto parts store, or should I order one online?

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by verslagen1 on 04/04/08 at 07:28:44

1st, you need a manual, there's nothing being able to refer to instructions and follow step by step instructions. There're on-line copies available, although not complete.

Did you take the head off or just the head cover?
There are instruction here on the correct cam timing (see tech section).

20 ft-lbs for the header bolts is correct.

What sealer did you use and exactly where is it leaking?

I had one bolt leaking after I did mine. Retorqued it and leak went away.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by demin on 04/04/08 at 07:31:24

The MSF class you are taking,is it the BRC or the Erc?If it's the BRC that one they provide the bikes.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/04/08 at 08:01:53

Its the BRC but they don't provide the bikes where I am at. I am on a military instilation and the course is free. They aren't as funded as the courses you recieve out in town.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/04/08 at 08:03:22

I used high temp auto silicone around the gaskets, and I did take the head off. I will review the tech sheets again for timing notes.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Max_Morley on 04/04/08 at 09:29:39

Use a new gasket on the head to pipe surface as a leak there is a common cause of backfiring. Max

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Robertomoe on 04/04/08 at 10:36:14

how much do those run?

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by verslagen1 on 04/04/08 at 11:21:28

$4 last time I got 1

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by goon73 on 04/04/08 at 11:38:57

go here.... http://blackbears.ru/index_en.php?get=manual look under suzuki and download a savage manual.... that will help a ton

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by sluggo on 04/04/08 at 14:54:42

when i order them i generally get three or four. good to have in parts bin.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/04/08 at 15:46:24

Ive gotten sarted pulling the head off again to tighten back to specs and inspect. I noticed that the head gasket had sepperated so a new ones on order. I will have my hands full this weekend! Can't wait!

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by T Mack 1 on 04/05/08 at 09:16:57

42756C6C54757270696E000 wrote:

hands full of grease.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/05/08 at 14:10:12

Well I put the head back on. Put a new header gasket on and tightened down the muffler. I may weld it on tomorrow. I just need to get the head cover back on and put the rest of the grease trap together. It will hopefulling run right IN-SHAL-ALLAH!

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/05/08 at 22:01:01

Weld? You might wanna wtah your electrics/

* wtah is swahilli for watch..

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by verslagen1 on 04/05/08 at 22:27:00

243B3D3A2720112111293B377C4E0 wrote:

* wtah is swahilli for watch..

You mean swahillbilly don't you?

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/05/08 at 22:35:27

It's bad when the corrections are wrong, too.. I give UPPP!

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/06/08 at 18:20:01

Well I found out what the problem was. It seems the last people to work on the bike stripped the threads on one of the exhaust manifold bolts. Now I just have to figure out how to fix it. I was thinking some liquid steal, or just use a tap and die to put in a bigger bolt....

ANY THOUGHTS?

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by gj859 on 04/06/08 at 18:23:43

If you drill and tap, measure the depth of existing hole very carefully, and then use a bottom tap. You also have to drill perfectly straight, which can be hard to do.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by T Mack 1 on 04/06/08 at 18:25:01

Exh manifold bolts get real hot. The best thing to do is put in a heli-coil. Auto-Zone carries some metric sizes.

I'm not sure a bolt large enough to work would fit thru the holes in the bracket/clamp thingy on the pipe.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Rockin_John on 04/06/08 at 23:24:37

I agree. The Heli-coil is probably a much better fix in this area. They make a pretty good fix for even stuff such as head bolts/studs.

Title: Re: I am going to shoot something
Post by Chopped on 04/09/08 at 04:51:08

OK..... Well I changed the head gasket to fix the oil leak. I put hightemp silicone around the infamous head plug to keep it from leaking, put the hightemp silicone around the rim of the Head cover as a gasket.... and the darn thing is still leaking oil. Mind you its no where near as bad as it was, but what the crappity smack! I am just more pissed than anything.

I fixed the eshaust leak to almost 100% It still does it, but that may take some welding to fix. The Heli-Coil nuts worked great considering I didn't have a tap to fit! I got real creative and drilled out the hole... and screwed a larger bolt in to make the threads I needed. Worked like a charm! Little trick I picked up from my Granddad! I may have to do it to the other side.

By the way, what size gasket fits on the exhaust manifold, engine block conection... I can't figure it out to save my life. I guess you could say DDDEEEEE DDDEEEEE DE!