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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> auxilary fuel tank? updated some more /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1216739554 Message started by firedawg on 07/22/08 at 08:12:32 |
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Title: auxilary fuel tank? updated some more Post by firedawg on 07/22/08 at 08:12:32 Hi all. New to board, new to savage. I just bought my wife an '05 s40/savage for her first bike. I road it to work a few times and love it. It feels like a toy compared to my bike (VTX1800) but is a blast to ride and gets much better mileage. The problem is the short fuel range, my commute is 110 miles and range is 100 miles. I have in mind to remove the stock air box and install the performance air filter and I thought where the air box is/was would be a great place for an aux. fuel tank. I think I could build a tank that would hold another gallon or so. My problem is this would be lower than the carb so it will not feed by gravity. If I understand the fuel valve correctly, fuel is actually "pumped" through by the vacuum diaphram. So my question is if I allowed the stock tank to feed into the aux. tank by gravity then moved the fuel valve to the lower tank will it pump with sufficient pressure and volume to feed the carb? By the way great forum, I read through it thouroghly before buying. I build most of my own custom parts from scratch and I love to read how others have modified thier bikes. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/08 at 08:24:33 Its gravity to the carb, vacuum is used to open the diaphragm to allow the fuel to flow. No pumpy action. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by firedawg on 07/22/08 at 08:28:17 Thanks for the help. Maybe I could find a small electric pump. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Moofed on 07/22/08 at 08:43:12 Is it 100 miles until you hit the reserve? If so, then the tank should have about another half gallon or 25 miles in it. If not, then you ought to be getting better mileage from the Savage. ;) |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by firedawg on 07/22/08 at 08:53:45 Yes 100 miles to reserve. I'm just used to more plus I can't make it round trip to my favorite (cheapest) gas station . I found out I can get a mikuni vacuum operated pump like from a snowmobile on ebay for around $20 which makes building the tank the hardest part of this job . |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by buttgoat1 on 07/22/08 at 09:36:00 We have been having the great tank expansion wants for a while. I thought of that too, I have a gas golf cart with a vacuum pump. I figure that a low mounted tank with a pump would do it. Put a tee into the gas line above the fuel filter (good idea if you havent done it already) and a valve in the vacuum line. When you hit reserve, open up the valve allowing the vacuum to actuate the pump. It should actually refill the gas tank with the excess fuel the carb doesnt need. Then just close the vacuum valve again. you would also need a check valve so the main tank would not overfill the aux tank. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by firedawg on 07/22/08 at 09:51:00 Buttgoat (whats with that name?) sounds good but more complicated than I have in mind. I'm thinking of running fuel line from the stock fuel valve (set to prime) to the top of the aux. tank, then installing another fuel valve in the bottom of the aux. tank to the pump. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/08 at 11:45:45 I've thought of the same thing, but didn't find the vac op pump. Look at oil reservoir tanks. There was a clear sided one, but everyone wanted to put something else in there. :o And I would think the best way to go about it would be to refill the stock tank after you've run it to reserve. Then turn on the pump and drain the reserve. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by mpescatori on 07/23/08 at 00:51:22 1st question that springs to mind, what's your cruising speed? Chances are, fitting a small fly screen and/or cruising a mere 5mph slower will improve your mpg. 2nd question, tire size? If you're in for a new rear tire, try a slightly oversize tire, a 3-5% increase in rolling radius will improve your mpg by just as much. 3rd question, have you considered a HD oil tank fitted to the handlebars? I had come across a website (I think it's the same that advertise a $350 chromed springer front end) KCINT.COM that sell steel chromed cylindrical oil tanks, if they have a crew top and you fit a petc0ck you could easily have those extra half gallon you're looking for... |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by firedawg on 07/23/08 at 14:26:01 mpescatori I cruise about 75 on the highway. A windshield is in the plans as soon as it's in the budget. Can't justify a new tire (even though I would prefer a metz) this one looks brand new. That oil tank is a great idea. They're about $145 on the cite you mentioned. 3.5 quarts |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Roadie on 07/23/08 at 18:23:06 Or you could just order one of these and save the headache... http://www.tourtank.com/ Though someone might think you are on the way to a kegger.. But that's ok. ;) |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/08 at 19:09:44 For $145.00 seems some bags & a 1 gallon container with gas in it would be easy & less $$$.Then, Youd have bags for running errands, trips for a few groceries & the gas could stay home. & you should have a few bucks in the pocket. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Gort on 07/23/08 at 19:49:51 Robert Fulton traveled the world in the '30s, using a hand made aux. gravity feed gas tank mounted on the rear of his Douglas Twin. He had no problems with it. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk80/tlukatch/fulton.jpg |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Jack_650 on 07/23/08 at 19:50:53 I did the four gallon tour tank on the back. You can set it up for a quick removal if you like. Then later replaced the stock tank with a five gallon off of a Harley SoftTail. Now I can go 400+ miles if needed between fuel stops. It comes in handy on the 4k+ mile trips I've done on the little 650 that can. There's another guy on here who's just done the stock tank swap with a Harley cop cycle that sounded easier than my conversion did by a bit. http://bikepics.com/members/jazzcarter/00savage/ Jack |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/08 at 21:29:17 That guy was wearing that huge coat & shorts??? |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Gort on 07/23/08 at 22:38:55 3D2224233E3908380830222E65570 wrote:
In typical British fashion, shorts were worn with knee socks, in cold weather. I believe he got the coat somewhere in Arabia during his trip. You should read his book: "One Man Caravan", by Robert Edison Fulton Jr. Its available on the 'Net. In 1932, this man drove a Douglas Twin motorcycle through 22 countries ( Arabia, China, India, etc.) , over 40,000 miles, on the worst road conditions possible, with no major breakdowns. He brought with him a 35mm camera and large tins of film, and this footage may be seen on his DVD, "Twice Upon a Caravan", also available on the 'Net. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/08 at 23:25:45 023F31343935500 wrote:
Good looking tank and a variety of sizes. Is the rear mount the only option for these? My ponderous personality is about all the rear end can take, can the tank be mounted up front? Over the headlight? |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by mpescatori on 07/24/08 at 01:19:39 Back to the original query. Cruising at 75mph is nice, but it's fast IF you haven't got a fairing (which is much more aerodynamic than a windshield) 75mph = 120 Km/h, if you slow down by 5mph you might not really notice the difference (depends on how much traffic there is on your stretch). The Tourtank WAS nice,m when they had that 2 gal. cylinder you could fit over the fhandlebars, in "sleeping bag" fashion. The newer 3 / 4 gal Tourtanks are just too bulky. A 4 / 5 gal Fat Boy or Road King tank would make an ideal solution, I think KCINT sell fat Boy repros at $99. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Roadie on 07/24/08 at 18:50:06 263522233C3137353E61500 wrote:
Good looking tank and a variety of sizes. Is the rear mount the only option for these? My ponderous personality is about all the rear end can take, can the tank be mounted up front? Over the headlight?[/quote] One of us here has one mounted to the back luggage rack. They ran the tube from the "keg" back under the pillion seat. Forget who did this. Looked nice. You have to purchase another petcock (which they sell seperately) to switch the aux tank. If I was into long distances this would be the way to go honestly. Alot of bang for the buck... |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Hard Corps on 07/24/08 at 19:20:21 6A41434B7F161510200 wrote:
Wow, Jack. That's awesome! It looks great with the matching paint and the superman logo. If you get time you should add a step-by-step of the mod to the tech section. Thanks for sharing! |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by FreeSpirit on 07/24/08 at 19:29:54 What kind of seat is on that yellow bike? Seems like I knew at one time,but I forgot! Need to write it down :) |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/24/08 at 21:09:36 6054434375564F544F52260 wrote:
If you're talking about Jack650's bike, it is a V-star seat if I remember correctly. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by FreeSpirit on 07/24/08 at 21:16:58 685E5F44597055584258310 wrote:
If you're talking about Jack650's bike, it is a V-star seat if I remember correctly.[/quote] Aw...thank you! Now that youve said it....that sounds right :) |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Jack_650 on 07/25/08 at 09:13:15 Somewhere scattered around in here is the chatter about my mods to the "Thunder Bee". I'm not sure how the search function works in here or what it looks for term-wise, but if you go back a couple years (from when I signed up here) you'll find it all. And I will answer specific questions if there're cloudy issues in what I've written up here before. V-Star seat SoftTail tank Second party Harley floorboards Sportster muffler Stock speedo on the handlebars/ longer speedo cable Tour tank Trailer hitch Windshield Powder coat finish Jack |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by firedawg on 07/27/08 at 08:09:32 Ok the jury has returned. My panel of engineering experts which include you guys has come to the following conclusion to be implemented as soon as funding is procured: 1)the battery shall henceforth be relocated to an area in front of the downtube and place in a black powdercoated battery box of my design 2)furthermore a 2 gallon tourtank shall be purchased and located neatly in the area formerly occupied by the battery and stock airbox displacing in the process the stock side covers. The tourtank fill cap shall be sealed permanently to prevent overfilling due to gravity from the stock tank. Tourtank filling is to be accomplished via a reverse flow through the transfer tube and tourtank is to vent into the stock tank via a return tube to enter stock tank through a new port to be braized in place. 3)a Mikuni vacuum operated pump shall be installed to transfer fuel from the aforementioned tourtank to the stock fuel tank and simultaniously the carburator via a tee fitting installed between the stock tank and the fuel filter along with a shutoff valve to be opened at the time of engaging the "reserve" The budgeting department is requesting a requisition form filled out in triplicate, and anticipates funding to be available within the next month. Battery relocation, air fiter change and carburator rejet is to begin this week. I will keep you guys posted and try to learn how to post pics. Thank you for your input it was very helpful. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/27/08 at 08:41:14 Man, I need your budgeting department to call my budgeting department and set up a lunch. Mine gets all hung up in the mire of "groceries, shoes, mortgage, blah, blah, blah" to the point that nothig important ever gets done around here. :) |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? Post by Gort on 07/27/08 at 08:42:25 6669726564617767000 wrote:
If the Mikuni vacuum pump pressure + the 'head' pressure of the main tank is more than the needle/seat assy. in the carb bowl is designed to resist, you may cause gasoline to push past the seat assy. and flood the bowl. Remember, the seat assy. was designed to resist a set amount of fuel pressure. Have you calculated the combined PSI of the Mikuni pump and the head of the main tank, and compared it to the PSI rating limitations of the bowl needle seat assy? Also, if you are teeing the pump into the main tank, how will you displace the air in the tank as the vacuum pump pressurizes it? Assuming the cap is on, even if it is vented, it may not be vented enough to release air pressure as fast as the pump in transferring gas into it. Under those conditions, the pump will try to then pressurize the carb bowl, which may overcome the needle.seat assy's ability to resist it, and flood the bowl. Have you considered all of this? |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by firedawg on 07/27/08 at 13:15:23 Gort The pump in question is the same one as my snowmobile. It is not a transfer pump but actually feeds the carb which is also a mikuni. Head pressure =not a problem. As far as pressure in the tank vs. vented gas cap goes the vented cap is designed to let air so as not to cause a vacuum but not to let fumes out. The vent tube I will install from the auxilary tank to the stock tank will alow the air from the stock tank to enter the aux tank as it is emptied. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by Gort on 07/27/08 at 15:51:59 5D52495E5F5A4C5C3B0 wrote:
How about taking digital pics of the steps you take to do this, and then posting the whole thing on the Tech Section? |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by KWKaletta on 07/27/08 at 15:59:28 Why a tour tank how about a small beer keg :D And you get to drink the beer!!!!!!!! 8-) |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by Paladin. on 07/27/08 at 18:39:24 Someone asked about this before. Good idea until you look at the thickness of the aluminum of the tour tank vs. the disposable beer mini-keg. Rupture a beer keg and you'll be sucking beer off the ground. Rupture that same keg when it's full of gasoline you could emulate T Quang Duc. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by KWKaletta on 07/28/08 at 06:51:02 Thought I had another reason to get beer oh well! ;D |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by T Mack 1 on 07/28/08 at 11:04:20 Don't they make flexible fuel blatters for boats. Maybe you could find one small enough to strap between the bars .... or in between the windshield and bars. When resreve starts to run out, switch over to the blatter. Found a 6 gallon one on Yahoo, but it was rectangluar ugly thing. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/28/08 at 19:48:19 I looked and looked for those bladders. They were all huge, and hugely expensive. |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by Jack_650 on 07/28/08 at 21:05:43 The company that makes the tour tanks used to do them in the two gallon and such sizes in a plastic. They don't anymore. Might have something to do with safety during collisions. I don't think I would like to get caught under a bike with a ruptured plastic gas tank of some sort dribbling around the accident sight. But hey, that's just me. Jack |
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Title: Re: auxilary fuel tank? updated with decision Post by firedawg on 07/29/08 at 11:34:13 So here it is. The 2 gallon tour tank is awful tight. So I decided on a 1 gallon tank but I'm cheap so I shopped around and found a new 1gal. air tank (6inch diam 12inch L.) for $32. Bought it. I found a mikuni vacuum actuated fuel pump also new $20. Bought it. Waiting on UPS man. Also came up with a simpler delivery system with only one valve to switch at reserve level. Also think I can reluse stock chrome battery box retaining the tool kit storage. I will continue to update and include photos when I get the parts and begin fabrication. |
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