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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Road Race / Cafe Savage?
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Message started by Kurlon on 04/16/10 at 10:00:27

Title: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Kurlon on 04/16/10 at 10:00:27

Has anyone attempted to road race a Savage?

Yeah, random off the wall question, I know. I'm a nutter with a predilection for doing things the wrong way, and after mentioning the idea as a joke, it started some gears turning and now I can't drop the concept.

Basic theory would be drop the front with shorter forks off a modernish 600, picking up a 17" wheel and modern caliper/rotor setup. Jack the back end up with a 17" wheel and longer shocks, aiming for a 10 deg swingarm angle, and ideally something resembling 26 degrees of rake in the front. Rig some rear sets, chop the frame off behind the shock mounts, and put a cafe/race tail on, clipons, etc.

My initial back of a napkin plan makes it look like the geometry could actually work. Plus starting with a bike that only weighs 340lbs dry means it's going to be nice and light to finish.

Question now is weather or not the motor is up for the task. 30hp at the rear wheel just isn't going to get the job done in either modern (CCS ULSB) or vintage (USCRA F1 / F2) classes even at a technical track like Loudon. For it's size that engine needs to be making 45hp minimum, I'd be happier with 55hp+.

I know the bike's are choked at both ends with a tiny carb and poor exhaust out of the crate, and see people have done mods to both, but I haven't seen much for numbers showing what people have gotten out of those changes?

The engines appear to be DR600 derived, is that true? Anyone know what size valves they run?

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Kurlon on 04/16/10 at 10:00:57

http://www.x386.net/TTR/media/misc/savage-cafe.jpg

Very VERY bad photochop I did up as part of the original conversation. As bad a job as it is, the lines are 'right' for a proper cafe racer... Modern Norton Manx?

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 04/16/10 at 10:07:55

Someone has a build going on now. Should be multiple pages back.

He was using a different frame and fab'ing the engine mounts.

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by dasch on 04/16/10 at 10:50:05

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1264727267

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Kurlon on 04/16/10 at 11:12:19

Hrmm... the swingarm angle looks really flat in that build, might be a stumbling block.

Otherwise that is one hell of a custom build! : )

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by smokin_blue on 04/16/10 at 11:14:34

740D6D41434B11200 wrote:

Someone has a build going on now. Should be multiple pages back.

He was using a different frame and fab'ing the engine mounts.

I believe that would be me. I moved my website and finally got all the pic links corrected so here is the history from this forum. I need start documenting it on my website. I am also due for an update. I am starting to make progress towards running this summer!

here it is with the most current on the bottom. If you like the first link then work your way back in time by going down through the links. If anyone has questions best bet is to email me as my time on the forum is limited.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1257039622/0

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1237084786/7#7

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1196943498/0

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Kurlon on 04/16/10 at 11:33:20

That is a gorgeous build!

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by smokin_blue on 04/16/10 at 11:42:38

It is slow but it is getting there. It is really coming together and I have some great concepts that once created I think you will like it even more.

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Truckinduc on 04/16/10 at 13:27:11

Im building one with sportbike suspension but its a bobber. My father and I are also building a cafe version, frame and all.

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Truckinduc on 04/16/10 at 13:31:40

dads

http://i40.tinypic.com/2vvuz43.jpg

And I see someone has already linked my build.

http://i44.tinypic.com/214edzb.jpg

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Phelonius on 04/16/10 at 13:53:59

Put in a DR 650 engine. It will start out wih as much HP as you can get from a modified Savage. Then there is much hop up stuff available for the DR if you want more.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Kurlon on 04/16/10 at 15:30:17

6C545950535255494F3C0 wrote:

Put in a DR 650 engine. It will start out wih as much HP as you can get from a modified Savage. Then there is much hop up stuff available for the DR if you want more.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by smokin_blue on 04/16/10 at 16:28:23

734D4A545756380 wrote:

[quote author=6C545950535255494F3C0 link=1271437227/0#10 date=1271451239]Put in a DR 650 engine. It will start out wih as much HP as you can get from a modified Savage. Then there is much hop up stuff available for the DR if you want more.

Phelonius

I was actually thinking a hybrid, Savage save for the head which would be culled from a DR650. Looking at what they squeeze out of them I'm not impressed though, seems they don't like showing 40hp at the rear wheel either...[/quote]

With this much displacement from a low reving single you are pretty much dealing with a torque monster instead of shear HP. On the street I expect mine to be a couple of pounds one side or the other of 300 lbs which should still scoot pretty well.

(if I want HP I just grab Bad Attitude 8-) (check out my site if you want to see a 135 hp asphalt shreder ;) )

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by LANCER on 04/17/10 at 16:31:14

replace stock carb with dedicated performance unit
regrind cam for more character for the engine = attitude !
rebore cyl w/ silicone carbide treatment for cyl walls for less friction, heat and mre power/durability
97mm forged piston with 10.5: compression to pump it up to 694cc
build custon exhaust for max power
exhaust ports need attention to make it work
absolutely replace forks, shocks, brakes and wheels

If you get the engne work done and tune it well then you will
have 50+ hp, maybe even close to 60 h

need hvy duty clutch pk w/ springs to hold on to her

the process of redoing the bike will get the wt down to less 300, I think mine is about 280-290 lb

mine was making 45 hp before this teardown and mod's so 55-60 hp is not unrealistic.

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Kurlon on 04/17/10 at 19:38:44

7D707F7274632326110 wrote:

the process of redoing the bike will get the wt down to less 300, I think mine is about 280-290 lb

mine was making 45 hp before this teardown and mod's so 55-60 hp is not unrealistic.

Those numbers make this a viable project.

Do you know the valve diameters in the stock head? Based on the pics it seems like the exhausts are awfully small for the displacement.

I also noticed the DR650 heads are already setup for dual spark, might not be a bad thing seeing as the bore is approaching 100mm.

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by mpescatori on 04/18/10 at 15:10:57

A few words.

The LS650 engine is wet sump, the DRs are dry sump, so NO, the Savage is NOT derived from the DR enduros.

The LS650 engine has the cam chain con the right side of the cylinder, IIRC the DRs have it on the left ? So NO head swap.

Even if the cam chain were on the same side...
- LS is a 650
- DRs are 600, 750, 800, so it'll be a real hard time to find a head/cylinder compatibility,

My advice is to go on the lookout for a DR750/800, it alòready has all the ponypower you need to go along with the frame rebuild, then find the hardware required to turn that ponypower into brawny horsepower !

PS IIRC DRs 750/800 alreadly had a rear disc brake too 8-)

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by Phelonius on 04/18/10 at 16:29:14

504D584E5E5C49524F543D0 wrote:

I would differ with you. My DR 650SE is a 650cc 2006 model.
The lower engine block very much resembles the S-40 engine.
It is an over square engine, ( short stroke). 100mm bore.
The cam chain is on the right side.
The places it mounts to the frame look very much like the mounting spots on the S-40. I think it would fit.
It would need chain drive to the rear wheel.
It would need the oil cooler.
Having owned two s-40s and the DR650 at the same time, I have had ample time to stare at them side by side. I have shop manuals for both models and read them a lot.
My DR 650 is a wet sump engine.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Road Race / Cafe Savage?
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 04/18/10 at 17:20:25

7C5A5D4B4341464C5D4B280 wrote:

ive been asked to post this bike build up. SOOO here it is. Started as a beat up 2001 savage.

So far.

Nope

4957555153546558564F5F3A0 wrote:

[quote author=740D6D41434B11200 link=1271437227/0#2 date=1271437675]Someone has a build going on now. Should be multiple pages back.

He was using a different frame and fab'ing the engine mounts.