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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the minute /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1272816081 Message started by Starlifter on 05/02/10 at 09:01:21 |
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Title: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the minute Post by Starlifter on 05/02/10 at 09:01:21 ...but, but, all the Repub campaign ads I'm seeing right now = "gov't BAD" I'm confused. These GOP Tea Bag wanna-be wingnut legislators are all running on the 'private industry/free market good -- Obama & Pelosi's socialist librul federal gov't bad' mantra, calling for smaller gov't and lower taxes etc. But wait ... here's Bobby Jindal - not pleading for BP to get THEIR asses in gear and clean the mess they're making in the Gulf - but for the FEDERAL GOV'T to do it. So, big gov't is only 'good' when private industry screws up and causes a catastrophe it never planned to fix/doesn't want to pay for? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/02/10 at 13:07:47 Lifter, my Friend - BP's CEO has already publicly announced the company's intent to pay compensation to all those whose interests had been harmed by the spill. So your statement that they won't/don't want to pay is in error. As Col. Pescatori said, there are means to stop/prevent these spills in use in European offshore wells. So, require the same thing here. To quote the old saying, "don't toss the baby out with the bath water". We cannot continue to depend on unreliable and expensive foreign oil, and be at the mercy of OPEC or South American nuts like Chavez. We simply need to think and act rationally - solve the prevention problem and continue drilling. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/02/10 at 13:12:40 7C737F757E7378747364717364160 wrote:
Ohh, but the knnee jerk reaction is so much more emotionally rewarding in that it keeps with the agenda. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Charon on 05/02/10 at 15:24:42 I'm a little curious why you call it "Lake Palin." Sarah Palin (presumably the namesake of the lake) was Governor of Alaska, a far piece from the Gulf of Mexico. She resigned that office a while back, and is in no public office now. It is very difficult for me to see how she could be held in any way to blame. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/02/10 at 15:30:28 Lot of people complained about GWB but he always used his head. ;D |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/02/10 at 16:53:49 4D666F7C61600E0 wrote:
that was one of her stupid sayings,"Drill baby drill" that is why they call it lake Palin,make sense now ? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by tcreeley on 05/02/10 at 17:49:49 I like that - Lake Palin- The biggest oil lake found above gr :Dound anywhere in the world. Why worry - it is a potential realestate hotspot. Chop it up into some investment derivatives, could make a killing - oh it has? 13 dead? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by JohnBoy on 05/02/10 at 21:04:46 6F606C666D606B676077626077050 wrote:
I'll believe that when I see it!!! Doesn't Exxon, the company that made 36 billion last year, still owe 17 million to the EPA (25 years later)? Wait two years and then try to buy Gulf shrimp at your local Red Lobster...if they are still in business. What is the cost to the country over say 30 years...and is BP going to be there? We are cutting the manned flights of NASA at a time when we should be building solar farms in space and microwaving electricity back to the grid. We had the people and the technology in place since since 1969, when Nixon closed the space program down. And yet we have fought three wars and had an oil crisis in '73,'79, and 2008. We didn't have money to go into space and get cheap energy, but we had money to go to war? Starlifter, you are dead on! I have a question for you though. Why is it that on day one of this disaster they mentioned BP and Halliburton in the same sentence and I haven't heard the name Halliburton since then? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by cornfuzed on 05/03/10 at 09:56:01 http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/dailybriefing/2009_11_06/Statoil_partners_with_CNOOC_in_Gulf_of_Mexico.html ::) your choice i guess, we drill our own or we buy from china who is gonna drill there..... |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/03/10 at 12:50:47 THE Gulf of Mexico oil spill may be growing five times faster than previously estimated and is in danger of accelerating out of control, it was claimed yesterday. Experts said satellite data indicated the oil was gushing from BP’s sunken Deepwater Horizon rig at 25,000 barrels a day. Previous estimates had put the leak at 5,000 barrels a day. Professor Ian MacDonald, an ocean specialist at Florida State University, said the new estimate suggested the leak had already spread 9m gallons of heavy crude oil across the Gulf. This compares with 11m that leaked from the Exxon Valdez tanker when it hit a reef off Alaska in 1989. The reality is that this spill may well not be contained not for 3 mos. but 6 mos. As things are now, oil will reach all around the Atlantic, including into European waters. I can see good portions of the Atlantic being slick with oil. If the piping blows, that is it. We are done. People are not seemingly getting it, are they? If that hole blows, we do not have the means to stop it. The US Navy's subs are designed for nautical warfare, not for plugging holes. At the moment, the oil is coming out at 1 ton/sq inch. Even if you could get a device close enough to it to cap it, you'd need to contend with the force of pressure as well as the heat. The current effort on BP's part to create some caps is with the piping still somewhat intact in mind. They will seek to cap the piping. If the hole blows and detaches what's left of the piping, there is no known means to cap the hole. At 1 mile in depth, where you cannot see anything and have nothing that can handle the depth like it can even at .5 mi, what are they going to do? All our technology over the past 200 years has had one focus, with little exception, in mind: developing the surface world. We are way behind on developing or working in the sub-sea-surface world. The only machines we have to manage the sub-sea-surface have been made to do two things mostly: fight and explore. Some have been designed to plunge holes into the sea-bottom, but not to un-plunge them. We cannot come up with the right technology in time to save our bacon from this disaster. If those pipes blow, and if it's true they blew the first time due to a mix of natural gas and oil (and heat), then it's likely they will, and thus it is entirely possible the whole Atlantic and part of the Pacific will end up covered THICK in oil. There will be no way to clean it up and the oceans will die, along with our planet. And all CNN talks about is the dumb bomber, this is a huge catasrophe. Are you people paying attention? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/03/10 at 12:57:00 JohnBoy, in answer of your question: >snip< Investigators delving into the possible cause of the massive gulf oil spill are focusing on the role of Houston-based Halliburton Co., the giant energy services company, which was responsible for cementing the drill into place below the water. The company acknowledged Friday that it had completed the final cementing of the oil well and pipe just 20 hours before the blowout last week. In a letter to to Halliburton Chief Executive David J. Lesar on Friday, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Beverly Hills) chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, and Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, called on Halliburton officials to provide all documents relating to "the possibility or risk of an explosion or blowout at the Deepwater Horizon rig and the status, adequacy, quality, monitoring, and inspection of the cementing work" by May 7. Investigators delving into the possible cause of the massive gulf oil spill are focusing on the role of Houston-based Halliburton Co., the giant energy services company, which was responsible for cementing the drill into place below the water. The company acknowledged Friday that it had completed the final cementing of the oil well and pipe just 20 hours before the blowout last week. Wherever Halliburton goes, so goes the war machine, and vice versa. From no-bid and no-account contracts in Iraq (and post-Katrina New Orleans, by the way) to a massive corporate presence in the Gulf region, these folks seem to have an acute capacity for making a buck on cataclysms of all sorts. Perhaps more to the point, they appear to be at the nexus of most disaster zones, including the erstwhile Bush Presidency and now the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/03/10 at 13:18:57 Hey, Palin. How's that "drilly - spilly" thing workin' out for ya? You stupid f**king twit. >:( |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/03/10 at 13:26:13 Lifter - Be nice, now. The sky isn't falling, and the planet isn't dying. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/03/10 at 15:06:29 222D212B202D262A2D3A2F2D3A480 wrote:
Thank god ,Jerry knows a way to fix the hole in the sea floor. Go to it Jerry,we shall await with baited breath . |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Reelthing on 05/03/10 at 15:56:03 Rather interesting account of what happened from the view point of an operator that was there - claims are the radio show did verify the guy is who he said he was - likely has a muzzle on now: http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article.asp?id=1790422&spid=32364 |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/03/10 at 19:17:48 The most comforting thing I ve heard in a long time |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/03/10 at 20:15:00 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
I would like to know how that gives you comfort ? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Reelthing on 05/03/10 at 20:38:12 Seems a nefarious action wasn't involved - either a procedure wasn't followed, or a bit of equipment failed, or sh!t happens sometime and the earth just snuck in a bigger gas bubble than could be handled. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/09/10 at 16:03:49 BP Plan B? -- Golf Balls, Shredded Tires. Bp’s plan B? A “Junk Shot.” U.S. Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen explained today on CBS’s Face the Nation. “They are actually going to take a bunch of debris — some shredded up tires, golf balls and things like that — and under very high pressure shoot it into the preventer itself and see if they can clog it up to stop the leak.” What luminary genius thought of that? sortta like the "stopping gully erosion on the old Kentucky homestead" move. "Let's put the Model A and some old mattresses in there and see if that slows 'er down!" ::) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/09/10 at 20:30:47 5A7D687B65606F7D6C7B090 wrote:
I guess with the golf balls it will be like getting a few million hole in ones,I wonder what kind of putter they will use ? And who will be the perfect candidate for putting all those balls into a hole ? Oh sh1t I was going to say Tiger Woods ,but I don't think he does black holes. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/09/10 at 20:31:17 A BP insider, providing information to OpEdNEws.com, reports that scientists and engineers, fearing the worst, have envisioned a worst case scenario, "It could very well be that the entire Gulf and the East coast of Florida could become dead zones, with no aquatic life at all." BP is not just the oil company with the worst safety record in America. It is also a criminal company, currently on criminal probation, with numerous other offenses as well. Any human with this kind of record would be jailed. Part of the reason this situation now exists is because BP secured a release from being required to use back-up acoustic coupler shut-off valves from thingy Cheney and the Bush administration, in 2003, when Cheney held secret meetings with energy executives-- the one the Supreme Court protected the secrecy of. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/09/10 at 20:54:29 perhaps we should use D1ck Cheney,George Bush,and BP execs, and Halliburton execs, to plug the hole ? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/09/10 at 22:00:47 Yeah, and add Rush Sarah and Glenn in the pipe. But then there are enough toxins in the water already. Send Joe the plumber down there with a pony tank? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/10/10 at 18:00:00 I can't believe there is not more being said about this environmental disaster. Oil leak is 5 times greater than reported by officials Source: Pensacola News Journal The amount of oil gushing from BP's Deepwater Horizon oil disaster is five times more than what the oil company and the U.S. Coast Guard are currently estimating, said a Florida State University oceanography professor on Saturday. At an oil spill environmental forum at the Hilton Pensacola Beach Gulf Front, Ian MacDonald said the blowout is gushing 25,000 barrels a day. The Coast Guard and BP estimate 5,000 barrels a day of crude is spewing into the Gulf. MacDonald said his estimate is based on satellite images and government maps forecasting the slick's trajectory. Read more: http://www.pnj.com/article/20100510/NEWS01/5100314 I don't think we will ever know how much is actually spilling. It is so far down and they are putting so many dispersing chemicals out. The dispersants are making it look better than it is, and it LOOKS BAD. The chemicals are sinking the oil so that what we see on the surface could (I don't know) but could be the tip of the iceburg. And do we know what effects those chemicals are going to have on our environment? And nobody in the media wants to mention the true possibilities of this disaster. Nothing to worry about folkes, move along, nothing to see here. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Serowbot on 05/10/10 at 18:04:52 7B5C495A44414E5C4D5A280 wrote:
It's the "Put a cork in it," plan... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by JohnBoy on 05/10/10 at 19:32:00 504F494E53546555655D4F43083A0 wrote:
The Miami Herald reoprted a meeting between FL Senator Bill Nelson and BP chief Tony Hayward dated May 4th Bill Nelson -- who is pushing legislation that could put BP on the hook for $10 billion in damages -- said BP's chief "dodged" the question of whether it's going to be liable for economic damages beyond the current $75 million max -- which the company expects to exceed. "When I pressed him, 'Was he going to be liable for the economic damages, he said it will be something we determine in the future," Nelson said of BP chief Tony Hayward. Yhis is starting to sound like EXXON all over again. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/10/10 at 22:20:27 7F5A5D5B775A4C350 wrote:
The Miami Herald reoprted a meeting between FL Senator Bill Nelson and BP chief Tony Hayward dated May 4th Bill Nelson -- who is pushing legislation that could put BP on the hook for $10 billion in damages -- said BP's chief "dodged" the question of whether it's going to be liable for economic damages beyond the current $75 million max -- which the company expects to exceed. "When I pressed him, 'Was he going to be liable for the economic damages, he said it will be something we determine in the future," Nelson said of BP chief Tony Hayward. Yhis is starting to sound like EXXON all over again. [/quote] you guys keep forgetting Halliburton ,they are the guys that built the bloody thing, Halliburton execs including D1ck Cheney, GW Bush, BP execs should all be hanged until dead, Thats how they do it in China, perhaps we can learn something from them. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/11/10 at 09:24:39 WASHINGTON — May 11 2010 Top executives from Haliburton (involved in the Deepwater Horizon oil rig disaster) will face a barrage of questions on Tuesday from angry senators eager to make it clear they intend to hold someone responsible for a blowout that killed 11 and continues to spew 210,000 gallons of oil each day into the Gulf of Mexico. Yes, folks, Halliburton is mixed up in this. They are the primary culprit that their flaws in the cementing process caused this disaster. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by BurnPgh on 05/11/10 at 10:46:42 wait...first it was 5 thousand barrels, then 25 thousand, now its 210 thousand? Since it keeps changing Im willing to bet its actually abou a million barrels a day gushing out. If thats the case its already surpassed the exxon valdez and 3 more months of that before they get a releif well? Id say thats about it for the gulf. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/11/10 at 10:52:37 My question is rather simple: Realizing that no human endeavor will ever be totally accident free (why do most of us wear helemts and a good number wear ATGATT), what is the alternative to deep water drilling for the foreseeable future? Sure, we should learn from this one and do everything possible to reduce the accident rate, but I presume most of use know that the accident rate in everything we do will never be zero. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/11/10 at 11:12:20 The alternative is alternative energy but the oil companies are too greedy and are making too much money off of oil to want to switch. The power companies are working with wind and solar power. Look at the billions oil companies are making in profits. The oil companies should be made to invest in alternative energy. The only way to turn this country around is FIGHT GREED!!! |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/11/10 at 11:30:34 Midnight - Are you aware how much "oil companies" are presently investing in alternative research and development? A ton. Remember, these aren't just "oil companies". They are energy companies, and like all private businesses, are in business to sell the most they can to the largest numbers of customers. Only a fool would restrict a company to oil alone - and they are not. The problem is, though, you can't power cars, bikes, airplanes, trucks, trains, etc. on electricity for the foreseeable future - transportation runs on oil, and will continue to do so for a long time yet. So, given that, from where do we get this oil? That's the meaningful question, not a hypothetical debate about solar, wind, or atomic energy to produce electricity. Electricity won't replace oil on a meaningful scale for a long time, and not until a revolution occurs in technology. The race is on to do that, but it's a marathon, not a sprint. So, please answer my question - from where do we get the oil we have to have without deep water drilling? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/11/10 at 11:40:41 76525F55525C534F49525F5E493B0 wrote:
which is what part of the cap and trade/tax bill is about, but that bill makes me nervous because power companies and any other company that is taxed by that bill will just pass it on to the consumers so, that's not good. and we don't have the money to subsidize anyone to create new tech for new ways of energy. course we could just sit here and wait while the free market moves. and they are working on electric motorcycles, cars and natural gas busses Quote:
that's really all we can do now, it's just that Haliburton or BP takes the risk and when accidents happen other people, in this case Louisiana residents and industries, are suffering. BP is standing up and saying they'll do the right thing but we'll see, probably waiting or some loop hole so they won't have to pay. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/11/10 at 11:47:31 626D616B606D666A6D7A6F6D7A080 wrote:
there's Alaska, there's the middle east, there's south america. . . are they running out yet??? there's still oil in Texas, cost to much to get to for some reason. and why not drill even deeper out in the ocean?? 70% of this planet is covered in ocean, bet there's lots of oil we haven't even seen yet. but it's still a good move to move away from oil, it's kind of a greasy business ;) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/11/10 at 13:47:22 I watched something on PBS about the sh1t load of oil up in Canada,they don't drill for it ,it's laying on top of the ground in what looked like shale, or small black stones,it was to expensive to extract the oil at $40 a barrel ,but now it's viable, I was in someone elses house at the time so I couldn't turn it up ,I just got the jist of it, has anyone heard of the stuff ? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/11/10 at 13:54:43 I don't know about oil in shale but I know there's natural gas in shale and they have just recently figured out a way to extract it, that's why some poeple are pushing for natural gas, there's new tech to get it now, it's some huge amount too, not sure how they measure natural gas, it's not barrels though |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/11/10 at 15:54:05 3F303C363D303B373027323027550 wrote:
I know how much Exxon made last year, you or I would call 1% of that a ton but thats not enough. Oil companies are not just "oil companies", thet are evil crooks, the Valdez spill proved that. Look how Exxon tried to handle that. How many lies will BP flood us with before this mess is over. I've seen the results of the power companies efforts, the oil companies have yet to show me anything other than destroying the planet and starting wars. Give the CEO and upper management of BP life in prison for criminal negligence and you wont have to worry about any more accidents, BUT DRILLING IS NOT THE ANSWER!. Cut back and quit burning the stuff. All the European countries are ahead of us when it comes to oil conservation just like they are with Health Care. Jerry their trains are probably a lot faster than your airplane. My car gets 33 mpg. Most of the time I ride my 250 Ninja all I can which averages 69 mpg. I put an efficient heating system in my home that heats my house with around 250 gallons a winter, Theres 4 schools wihtin 2 miles of my home. When school is in traffic is deadlocked in my neighborhood. Empty schoolbuses go right by all these kids homes yet 90% of the parents drive their kids to school. How many people are bitching about the oil spill but doing absolutely nothing to conserve it. The answer is NOT to drill more in our oceans but start using what we have left like it is a non renewable resource. More money should be spent by the oil companies in developing alternative energy instead of conning us out of our tax dollars trying to take over the Middle East. 90% of our fragile economy depends on the price of oil, its time we quit being stupid. In the meantime we will not have to be worrying about destroying our planet. |
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Title: Drill baby drill! ...The essay. Post by Stimpy on 05/11/10 at 16:37:32 Where do we get the oil we have to have without deep water drilling? "we have to have" this says it all, if anything, this is a wake-up call, a big one; all this is very complex, SO darn complex in fact that it's ridiculously easy to solve, the answer to the toughest questions are often hiding in plain view; this may be a simplistic view of it all but these are my thoughts: There really isn't any other source of mass quantities of oil anywhere AND even if there was it wouldn't solve anything for too long anyway and we would be right where we started soon enough. Now ask yourself the following: Why on earth would anyone and/or any corporation in their right mind (even assuming that "peak oil" was a scam) would be deep-drilling for oil (up to 40,000 feet down!) in the poles, in the exorbitantly expensive deep-sea and other hard to reach spots, etc, if oil was readily available in convenient spots right on your backyard (and not your neighbors)???! Even worse is the fact that hosing down oily sand with steam to extract very little low-quality oil over in canada and other spots that causes a monumental environmental mess because of the runoffs, what gives?! ...now: - Eolic power requires a lots of infrastructure, is unreliable because of changing wind conditions and can usually only be utilized locally because channeling that power requires more infrastructure. - Hydroelectrics are excellent but again require very large infra- structure and the worlds water routes are changing dramatically. - Solar is a good alternative but with similar problems to eolic but with the advantage that the energy produced can easily be stored locally and are good for "small" domestic use and installations and for remote locations. The batteries required to store this power on the other hand are VERY pollutant because of the mess left behind while mining for the required metals and from the industrial chemical plants that make the acid and plastic casings. - nuclear, needless to say, is a mixed blessing and has its own problems. - hydrogen and bio-diesel (and all others like them) are all a HUGE joke because they both require more energy and resources to make than they produce so it's all BS, trust me. - Internal combustion technology has gone unchanged for a century and the only reason cars now have more power is because they consume more gas period. Fuel-efficient japanese cars have light materials and high compression small engines in their advantage and do produce good results but they still require gas. - Hybrid owners, i have really bad news for you... it's a scam. Yup, sad but true but your dirty prius is way more pollutant that a filthy hummer because of the industrial and chemical processes that went behind creating your techy death trap's space-age components along with it's 80,000 "AA" batteries it uses... and what do you think will happen to those batteries when they eventually will have to be replaced, you think they will be "properly disposed off?" suuure they will, you just keep telling yourself that everytime you push that pretty button to start moving that 2-ton tank around, ok? It does seems however that Nikola Tesla and others had a few pretty good ideas on how to deal with alternative energy sources but were all promptly taken care of by the same people that brought you the Deepwater Horizon Pay Per View Reality Disaster Porn 2010! So what's you point stimpy? listen, I am not a pessimist nor do I see the glass half-empty and I don't have all the answers either, I'm just a realist that is half-aware and half-informed, struggling with duality same as everybody else, but all this lets me see things the way they really are and things are not so good right now so let's not sugar-coat them, ok? The truth is that in the last 200 years or so, somewhere, somehow we sealed the deal and we all lost our way for good, we turned dumb, lazy and smug, addicted to comfort, somehow believing that life, the world and others owed us something and that "rules", hard work and common sense were all made for your neighbor but not for ourselves because we are all so darn special and so are our children, right? but guess what, they're not. The truth is that we are all part of a species that somehow divided itself in to imaginary sub-species and sub-classes and created imaginary borders and divided the bounty and resources we thought were no one elses' and were there for the taking but the truth is that everything already had an owner and a perfect balance existed everywhere but since we consider any other species as "inferior" to us we destroyed the all habitats constantly finding new uses and applications for all the new resources, exploiting everything with no remorse and eventually became dependent on all these things and exactly HERE is where things went wrong because soon later the population exploded simply because something else was doing all the work (fossil fuels) reaching our highpoint with the pathetic and contagious presidential phrase "greed is good" and here we are today thinking that we are special and truly believing that we have the power to "save the planet" when we cannot even love and take care of each other in the most basic ways. In reality the planet is not going anywhere, we are; the planet will survive just fine and the ecosystems will eventually recover their own way and life will go on and this failed experiment will be forgotten and the race to the top of the food chain will begin again. The truth is that we are multiplying spoiled comfort junkies fighting for the last few doses all while still ignoring the many many warnings that we are given every day showing us the right path to follow wondering what went wrong and why... well DUH! So finally, what IS this simple answer to solve it all? As I said, it's very simple: We don't. We don't look for new places to drill but look for a way to get our priorities as a species in order because the more we wait the more it's gonna hurt when this downward spiral we're all in finally hits bottom. There is just no other way. Yes, an utopic society is impossible to achieve but the least we can do for the meantime while we figure things out is go "back to basics" and back to simple living and stop wanting and wanting more and more and more comforts and stuff all the time and UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NEED AND WANT and get our asses in gear asap, educate yourself and your children and understand that ALL sentient being have a right and a job to do here and the right not to suffer unnecessarily and there is no reason in the world why YOUR existence should change this in any way, and yes, this includes your neighbor. And all I know is that I'm doing my part. Want not, waste not. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/11/10 at 16:57:05 When the USA was smarter than they are now, back in the 1970s they lowered the speed limit,There is no reason they can't do it now. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/11/10 at 17:12:59 73787D7D2726110 wrote:
Because the oil companies run the goverment, why the hell are we still in Iraq? Why did we go there in the first place? Haliburton created the war now they have destroyed the Gulf Coast. How much more damage are they gonna do? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by forrest on 05/11/10 at 17:24:10 Jerry, do make a living defending the big companies? Although we do need them they would f#%k over their own mothers if it would line their pockets. Social responsibility for major oil is for brochures and not reality. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/11/10 at 17:51:10 7F766B6B7C6A6D190 wrote:
Amen. The CEO's and upper management have to have 500 million dollar salarys and golden parachutes. In order to do that they have to screw somebody, their own employees and the consumer. Two guys I work with did missionary work in Alaska a few years ago. They worked with oil refinery employees. My friends were told by the refinery employees that the vast majority of the oil they refine is sent to Japan. Why does our Alaskan oil go to Japan? Because our oil companies can sell it to the Japaneese for more money than they will get for it here. Thats what oil companies call good business. Makes money for upper management and the shareholders. Thats what its all about. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/11/10 at 18:34:49 ...but but Rush says it's the ecology preservation folks who made the spill happen! "Rush Limbaugh pointed out that the explosion occurred on April 21st, the day before 'Earth Day.' He also reminded us that Al Gore had previously encouraged environmental nutjobs to engage in civil disobedience against the construction of coal plants that don't have carbon capture technology. 'Eco-terrorists' exist and have done millions of dollars worth of criminal damage. Fire is one of the main tools of their evil trade. I'm not claiming the Deep Horizon was bombed by eco-terrorists, although I don't believe it's out of the realm of possibility. But, it would take some serious money and ability to pull off an attack like that, so I would tend to think much bigger than college hippie eco-wackos with some money-backing -- a foreign government, perhaps. Of course, before I could finish writing my thoughts here, I just heard Michael Savage posing the same questions. He also said there is a theory on a Russian website that claims North Korea is behind this. The article claims that North Korea torpedoed the Deepwater Horizon, which was apparently built and financed by South Korea. Torpedoes would make sense for the results we see.... There are a number of international 'suspects' who might want to do something like this. They range from Muslim terrorists to the Red Chinese, Venezuela and beyond. Remember that China and Russia are drilling out there, as well, and they would benefit from America cutting back on our own drilling." |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/11/10 at 18:49:50 Stimpy,and midnight,you guys are right on the money. We should try public transportation, It works in big city's like London Paris,Rome use thousands of bycycles,so does Portland Oregon, New York city does well also, people are so mucking lazy,that is why 60% of Americans are over weight, I doubt the US could raise an army at the moment,Start riding your bikes guys ,even your Savages get 45,or 50 MPG,my miata gets just over 30. And we grow 1/4 the food we eat.We all have to do something ,we cant listen to Rush Limbauer, and wait for his drug induced advice. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/11/10 at 18:52:21 Very disturbing video of the oil slick from the air....Sit down before you see it. Video is from Alabama resident John Wathen as a volunteer pilot flew him over the area where the oil rig sank. Officials have stopped guessing at the amount of oil leaking although some speculate it may be closer to 1 million gallons per day. Don't let BP spin this into something trivial. "It's not a leak, it's a volcano spewing oil" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=did-S6XbpMM Why is corporate media (R) covering up this disaster? Totally 1984. No one does investigative reporting anymore. They just repeat propaganda they are told. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 06:00:36 Midnight - Thanks for a well thought out reply. I too am an energy saver. Because we live in a rural area without natural gas, we heat half our home ( the old part) with fuel oil, and the other half (addition put on in 1985) with an electric heat pump. In winter, we use about 300 gallons total. We keep the temp at 65, max, and wear sweaters. Sweaters are a lot cheaper than utility bills. Same for the heat pump part of the house; set to 65 max. While Mick likes to give me grief for driving a BMW, it gets 34 mpg. I refuse to drive an automatic transmission, because a manual not only gives me proper control of engine rpm, but also saves a little gas, even though automatics are now getting very close to manuals in efiiciency. I ride my bike as much as I can in the decent weather, some for the fun of it, some to save wear and tear on my car, some to save gas. But since my job requires me to wear a suit and tie several days per week, motorcycle transportation isn't practical for me most of the work week. I've preached about trains before. They make sense in Europe where major cities are often less than 100 miles apart. But, American business can't live with train travel from New York to Chicago, or Columbus to Denver or Dallas - you get the picture. Our country is just too large to depend on trains to get us thousands of miles between major centers of commerce. I agree with conservation. How many people drive dual wheeled pickups at 15 mpg, max? How many of them have a real need for such a vehicle? Darn few. That's one reason I also preach that our gasoline is too cheap. If you want Europe's conservation, the first way to get there is to adopt their prices for gas. $7 or $8 per gallon makes a person conserve; our $3 doesn't. But will you get on that wagon with me and advocate European fuel prices? Few will. Conservation is easy to preach, but how many of us will bite the real bullet that it takes to accomplish it? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 06:22:14 Jerry its a shame the majority of the American public is too self centered to cut back at $3 a gallon. Looks like its gonna take huge price increases to make them realize this stuff isnt going to last forever. The problem there is its gonna hurt the lower income people and wreck our fragile economy. I'm not really sure what the fuel prices have done to Europe economically, but European countries are smaller and they dont have to transport goods and services as far as we do. This spill has opened my eyes, there is no telling what the long term effects of this disaster will be. Hurricane Katrina is a drop in the bucket compared to the damage this is going to do to the Gulf. Thousands more will be without jobs for years and years. I dont like the idea of giving up gasoline, I'm a red blooded American male who loves to smell burning rubber and nitro. But its time we started thinking of others and future generations. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Charon on 05/12/10 at 06:45:12 "We have met the enemy and he is us." Each of us who removes the white spacer to richen the midrange is wasting a little more fuel. Each of us who buys the V6 instead of the 4 is wasting fuel. Automatic transmissions use more fuel, but over 90% of US cars have them. Each of us who exceeds the speed limit wastes fuel. Even driving at the limit is more wasteful than running slower. Each of us has said, in effect, that getting there a little sooner is more important than conserving. Each of us who luxuriates in a prolonged hot shower wastes energy. Each of us who lives in a larger house than necessary wastes energy and resources. Each of us who leaves the lights or the TV on in an unoccupied room wastes energy. The list can go on and on. Each of us thinks our little bit doesn't matter, but in the aggregate it all adds up. Conservation doesn't start with Government edicts - it starts with each of us. And the result of each of us using energy is a continual effort to find more. The latest oil spill isn't the first, and won't be the last. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 06:46:16 Midnight - Another thing the Europeans do is price gasoline well above diesel fuel. Then, you are compelled to consider diesel cars, which today, are just as clean, if not cleaner, that gasoline engines. We could solve the cost of business transportation of goods very easily - a huge discount for legitimate business use, and a high price for purely personal use. Sure, there would be cheating, but that's a different matter. All of this is fun to talk about, but Americans would never go for it. Few are as smart about it as are you - most would never consider giving up their V-8 gas engines, pickups, vans, SUVs and all other sorts of wasteful consumption. And it doesn't really take $7 or $8 gas to get people to save. Back in 2008 when gas went thru the roof, remember how sales of SUVs stalled? My prediction is that just $4.50 to $5 would change American habits very quickly. But yet, when gas does go up, people scream about oil execs being thieves (didn't you make a simialr comment a few posts back?). You just can't have it both ways. Americans just like to complain, p!ss and moan, but when it comes to paying for conservation, no way. And oil company (energy company, really) profits have to be viewed as a good thing, to encourage more investment in energy production. Yet again, so many of us like to just b!tch about it, and call them scroundrels for making money that attracts investors to do likewise. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/10 at 07:07:28 Ive seen some of the smaller, diesel offerings they have access to in You Rupp. Id have me one of them in a flash. O course, someone has to drive a gasoline powered vehicle. Its gotta get used on something. You cant take crude oil & just make diesel. Theres asphalt, naptha, & all weights in between in oil. Some is nastier than other oil, its not all the same. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 08:08:59 Jerry if oil went to $5 a gallon and the profits went to the oil company I would be the first one screaming. This country has too many rich self seeking millionaires who are destoying our way of life. If the extra cost went to developing alternative energy sources I can live with it. If enough emphasis is put on alternative energy we can do it. I fly radio control airplanes. All my planes are electric. Ten years ago that was almost unheard of. More efficient small electric motors and leaps and bounds in battery technology made this possible. Now there are more electric rc aircraft than nitro. The same can be done for personal vehicles if enough emphasis is placed on it. I realise it will be a long time before we can power trains, trucks and airplanes with alternative fuels, but its not impossible. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/12/10 at 08:17:16 Jerry your right on that Oil companies view profit a good thing.The more profit the better the view.The have had the best view for along time now. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by buttgoat1 on 05/12/10 at 09:22:09 3C37323268695E0 wrote:
thats why I put my 401 k in energy stocks so I can share in the wealth |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/12/10 at 10:02:47 1F343D2E33325C0 wrote:
well said Charon, I try very hard to do all the above,but I am guilty of removing the washer, I do drive a 4 cylinder stick shift car,I hate automatic. and I am guilty of speeding,very often,and have two tickets and higher insurance rates to prove it,all the rest I stick to.Now if the price of gas whent up to $5 a gallon that might slow me down a tad. I find that 55 or 65 mph makes me want to sleep ,so every time I see a nice deserted road I will take her up to 90 or so, that really wakes you up.If every one drove at 65 why would they make cars that do 180 mph ? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/12/10 at 12:41:30 "I've preached about trains before. They make sense in Europe where major cities are often less than 100 miles apart. But, American business can't live with train travel from New York to Chicago, or Columbus to Denver or Dallas - you get the picture. Our country is just too large to depend on trains to get us thousands of miles between major centers of commerce." Jerry. Jerry my friend, you consistently make statements that contradict. You hope for VERY expensive gasoline to discourage use and conserve fuel, and then you say that trains don't make sense in America because the country is too big. So how do you propose that people travel from place to place??? Trains are very very fuel efficient. One locomotive can pull up to 100 cars or more taking all those gas guzzling one occupant cars off the road. Aircraft guzzle fuel, but serve to facilitate cross country or international travel. Who can put up with the costs, delays, and security hassels for shorter trips anyway? You state that in Europe cities are 100 miles or less apart. So too are the major cities in the eastern half of the US and the west coast. Today most families are scattered hither and thither around the country facilitating a great deal of traffic for that reason alone. The greyhound bus company two years ago eliminated 2500 small towns in rural and sparsely settled parts of the country. 70 years or so ago the nation was crisscrossed with train service, passenger boats served the great lakes, interurban trolleys. Commuter trolleys and local bus service served nearly every community in the nation. Yes, jack up the price of gas to European levels and then bring back a fast, clean, efficient, national train service. Indeed one of the reasons that gasoline is so expensive in Europe is because the high taxes on gasoline go toward national transportation systems. Also European drivers are much more of aware of motorbikes, scooters, and bicycles sharing the streets and roads. BTW did anyone watch the oilslick video through it's entirety?? No comments?? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 12:46:23 Midnight - Electric cars have a long way to go before they become practical for anything other than short errands. I just returned to my office from a lunch meeting with a client in a town 75 miles away. That was a 150 mile drive on a nasty rainy day that required me to drive with headlights on and wipers working. No way could I have done that in a present technology electric car. Hybrids aren't the answer either. The batteries are horribly expensive to replace when they wear out, and the battery pack takes up a huge amount of trunk space. Plus, you still have a gasoline engine to pay to maintain. Diesel is practical today. A VW Jetta TDI will deliver close to 45 mpg, and even a large Mercedes E class diesel will approach 40 mpg. Bring in the smaller European diesels and you'll see close to 60 mpg. A buddy of mine is also into electric r/c model airplanes. Seems a lot simpler too than flying the old nitro powered ones. Some day we'll have all of this alternative energy stuff at a practical level, but I doubt I'll live to see it really become the ordinary. In the meantime, I'll remain a vocal proponent of diesel transportation. JOG remarks that you can't make only diesel, and that's true. But a refinery can modify the process, even right now, to make a lot higher percentage of crude into diesel than they do presently, since they have to make so much of the crude into gasoline to satisfy current demand. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 12:57:12 Star I watched it, its sad. I also watched this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pBcf0o444&feature=related If this is true thingy Cheney and BP execs should get life in prison. Major corporations are the enemy. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Gort on 05/12/10 at 13:04:40 Strange how GM came out with a working prototype to the energy crisis 44 years ago, drove it around, and then just gave up on it. Gee, you'd think they would be able to solve its safety issues and downsize the power plant dimensions after 44 years. But then, why would they want to reduce the profit margins of Big Oil? Yes yes, I know....its fashionable to have conspiracy theories these days. Maybe they should have given the design to NASA. After 44 years, NASA would have had it fully road safe AND able to orbit the earth as well. http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/gm-electrovan.htm http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk80/tlukatch/general-motors-electrovan.jpg |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 13:07:40 Lifter - I agree with you ( imagine that? ) about trains on the east coast. But I don't live there. From my office, the nearest big cities are Cleveland and Cincinnati, each about 120 miles away. Next is Pittsburgh and Indianapolis, each about 180 miles away. Go next to Chicago and St. Louis, and we're looking at 350 miles. Beyond there, and we're really into long distances. Dallas is 1100 miles. Read my post to Midnight - could I have left here, driven to a train station, waited on the train, ridden to another train station, gotten to my lunch meeting, back to the train station, ride back to the Columbus train station, drive to my office, all in 5 hours? No way. Sure, I could take all day and make the same trip by this hypothetical train, and bill my client for 10 to 12 hours rather than 5. You wanna pay that? Life is much faster paced today than in the age of inter urban cars and great lake ferry boats. I go to Chicago about once a month for a couple of days. I can actually drive it in the same time it takes to fly by airline, door to door. But the beauty of driving is that when my meeting is over, I'm on the way back home; not heading to the airport to wait 3 hours on the flight. When I go to a smaller town, a couple of hundred miles away, say like Lansing, MI, I can jump in a general aviation airplane, be there in 1.5 hours, do most of a day's business, and be home for dinner. No train could match that. If you have lots of time, trains may work. But no way for a busy business person transacting business 1000+ miles form home, or even 500+ miles at that. Next idea? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 13:11:35 Gort - That thing's a monstrosity - look at it carefully. Where do you put anything other than front seat occupants? I'd hate to be in it if it got hit from behind and blew up. Back to the same old thing - it wasn't practical to build it, because at $1 for gas back then (maybe it jumped to $1.50 during the oil embargo then) people just drove their gasoline cars. Simple; no conspiracy needed or present. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 13:15:02 626D616B606D666A6D7A6F6D7A080 wrote:
Jerry you can have video conferences and meetings over your computer, the technology is already there. Youre running a business and are always concerned with cutting cost, why drive 150 mi? Or is it easier to drive 150mi and cut back on your employees benefits? Thats exactly what I'm talking about. If the money being spent on destroying our oceans was being spent on battery research we would soon have lightweight efficient batteries for electric vehicles. Give the money that its gonna take to clean up the Gulf to the right person or persons and you'll have an efficient electric vehicle. Jerry watch this video and tell me about how great the oil companies and big business are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pBcf0o444&feature=related |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 13:34:34 Midnight _ We do some video conferences. Last year I took a deposition of a witness in Paris (not Paris, KY) by video - what a nightmare. I had to start at 3 AM due to the time difference, and the connection broke up several times. Again, the technology is there, but far from perfect. When you're in my business, you need to see many folks face to face - sizing up a witness in person is often as important, sometimes more so, than what they actually say. You'd be surprised how a jury will pick up on body language and facial expressions. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/12/10 at 13:38:06 If the price of gas goes up everything you have to buy goes up.It did a couple of years ago and when gas came down some the prices on other things didn't.To me they could and extra tax on any car or truck that doesn't get 22 mpg.I was in construction all my life never had a 4 wheel drive.My son and my 3 son in laws all have 4 wheel drive,My sons average 12 mpg,It got big wheels,going down the freeway at 70 mph it shows 12 mpg. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 13:51:12 Bill - You hit the nail on the head. Of course, where you live in Wisconsin, aren't your winters fairly snowy? But of course, far less construction is done in the winter, I'd suppose. There is presently a Federal gas guzzler tax, but it's only on cars; not trucks. And 22 mpg is far too low. Any normal car, driven by normal, middle class people, should get 30+ mpg. Last week I did see Labron James' Maybach. I'm sure it gets around 8 mpg, but then there's only one Labron James. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/12/10 at 14:00:37 We still worked all winter but didn't need a 4 wheel drive. 22 for regular pickups and 30 for cars. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/12/10 at 14:04:46 4E414D474C414A464156434156240 wrote:
and Obama says: "The Obama administration finalized the first national rules curbing greenhouse gas emissions Thursday, mandating that the U.S. car and light-truck fleet reach an average fuel efficiency of 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016. The new fuel efficiency standards, issued by the Transportation Department and the Environmental Protection Agency as the result of a May 2009 deal with the auto industry, represent a peaceful end to a contentious legal battle over how to regulate tailpipe emissions. At a time when it remains unclear whether Congress can pass climate legislation this year, the new rules also mark the White House’s most significant achievement yet in addressing global warming. [...] Environmentalists hailed the move, saying it will transform the American auto market in the years to come. [...] “This is the biggest step the federal government will have ever taken to save oil, cut greenhouse emissions and save consumers money,” said David Friedman, research director of the clean vehicles program at the Union of Concerned Scientists." Did Jerry and Obama just kinda agree on something???? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 14:15:19 LA - You'd be surprised how much I agree with the President. I also vehemently disagree with him on a few things, too. So far into his presidency, Obama has impressed me as a fine man with a good heart and a sharp mind. What he lacks is business experience, having never even run a lemonade stand. That doesn't mean he's bad, just that he doesn't understand all aspects of every issue, particularly, business issues. Of course, I don't understand all aspects of all issues either, but I don't think I'm in the running to be president. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/12/10 at 14:16:12 "If you have lots of time, trains may work. But no way for a busy business person transacting business 1000+ miles form home, or even 500+ miles at that. Next idea?" Midnightrider is correct! Why are business people forever flying around the country for business meetings anyway? To pad expense accounts and have fun? As MR alluded to, with today's technology I should think that 90% of business could be conducted via multi-person teleconferencing and that sort of thing. Maybe the other 10% of business really needs to be person to person. There are actually advanced medical doctors who conduct delicate surgeries in far away places with physicians on the receiving end doing the work. The cameras are THAT GOOD. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/12/10 at 14:16:39 Because of wind resistance it would be hard for pickup to get that mileage. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 14:24:11 Midnight - I meant to add that your comment about cutting employee benefits so I could drive to a meeting was out of bounds. First of alll, clients pay auto mileage reimbursement. Second, our benefit package is mighty nice. We recently hired a young lady as a secretary here, and she was flabbergasted that we pay the full cost of employee's health insurance for a Cadillac plan. Of course, since Obama's health care bill will tax Cadillac plans, maybe we'll have to reduce that benefit some - who is ultimately responsible for that? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 14:26:33 Bill - Not if it's a reasonable sized pick up with a diesel engine and a manual transmission. If it's a huge 5+ liter gasoline engine with an automatic, you're right. Tell them to give up the huge truck ,the gas engine, and the automatic transmission. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 14:33:22 Star most businessmen believe they have to get their clients drunk before they will do business with them. Ever notice most meetings are over dinner and drinks? Big business can justify anything but its up to the poor working Americans to make all the sacrifices and cutbacks. Goverment is not your enemy. Goverment was put in place to help and protect the average citizen. Big business is the enemy. Big business is greed and coruption. Big Business is now controlling the goverment thanks to the Bush administration and for the most part Obama is playing right along with it. Obama made the statement 2 weeks ago Wall Street and Main Street America walk hand in hand. 20 years ago that statement could have been true but now nothing is further from the truth. We're still at war, whats that all about? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 14:34:58 Lifter - Were you ever a salesperson? Making a sales call by video conf. is about as effective as dating by video conf. And what I do is sales - I just sell stories, not goods. When I'm on an airliner, often monthly, the person sitting next to me is more often than not a salesperson or sales manager. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Reelthing on 05/12/10 at 14:41:38 Don’t worry the carbon gangsters are trying to strengthen and bring to power their Mafioso right now which “necessarily would cause electricity to skyrocket” as well as a higher cost of anything else related to energy and its use soon. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/12/10 at 14:50:08 4374747D6579787F76110 wrote:
do you have to be so drama queenish when you make a point Reelthing??? and could you stop taking your acting lessons from Glenn Beck ;D |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 14:52:46 The power companies are building carbon free plants and investing in wind and solar power. You can see their results. Jerry claims the oil companies are spending a ton of money investing in alternative energy. All I see are record profits each year. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 14:53:22 Midnight - What have you been smokin'? Aren't you aware that many large corps. now don't reimburse expense accounts for alcohol at all? I have clients whose counsel guidelines clearly state that expenses are only reimbursed for coach airline fare, moderately priced hotels and meals, and no alcohol. Before you make blanket accusations, please learn the facts first. Before long, alcohol will be going the way of smoking at business meetings. MADD is ruling that part of the business world. Getting drunk is no longer "in" with the business world, and hasn't been for years. Many a career has been ruined for the person who gets tipsy at even a company Christmas party, let alone in the everyday setting. What is it with you guys who attack business at every turn? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Stimpy on 05/12/10 at 15:00:03 http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/12/10 at 15:06:06 busineeses don't treat everyone nicely Jerry, it'd be nice if they treated everyone fairly but that's a rarity too. I'm assuming you dont' have much experience working, like lower level jobs for businesses,( assuming is dangerous I know, you'll probably come back and surprise me with a story of how you worked for 5 years on minimum wage working 3 part time jobs with no benefits until you pulled yourself up by your boot straps all by yourself and became the great human being you are today) you seem to be at the top of you game with everything you do, which is good for you, but doesn't mean you understand everything about being an employee. and working low level jobs doesn't count when you were a teenager and living off mommy and daddy, you've worked hard and been rewarded for it, some of us have worked hard and been discarded for some bottom line mentality . . . |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Stimpy on 05/12/10 at 15:15:35 Remember what I told you guys a week ago? Putin's Russia is proposing the use of an atom bomb to "plug" the oil spill created by Halliburton and BP: The Nuclear Bomb? Don't laugh, Russia's daily publication Pravda says we should nuke it. True/Slant's Julia Ioffe translates the piece: "In Soviet times such leaks were plugged with controlled nuclear blasts underground... the underground explosion moves the rock, presses on it, and, in essence, squeezes the well’s channel." http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/9-Ways-to-Fix-a-Catastrophic-Oil-Spill-3568/ & http://trueslant.com/juliaioffe/2010/05/04/nuke-that-slick/ ...in the meanwhile D.C. is saying: Oil spill may be hyped Democratic Congressman Gene Taylor took a mocking from our intellectual and moral superiors when he assured his constituents along Mississippi’s Gold Coast that the oil spill would be cleaned up naturally. :-? "No Plan B" All hope lays now on a 70-ton steel containment box while BP is facing a barrage of lawsuits and clean-up costs soaring above 10 million dollars a day... the 4 story "bell" failed. ...and starlifter is dead right, the media is NOT reporting this at all. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 15:20:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pBcf0o444&feature=related Jerry watch that video and comment on it. If I make bad investments is the goverment going to bail me out like it did the brats on Wall St? When big business cuts back they lay off Americans and outsource foreigners for slave wages. Yet the CEO's are still making 500 million a year. Remember 20 years ago Walmart trucks had written on them All our products are made in America? Big business was good. That is no longer true. Major corporations like Haliburton, Goldman Sachs and BP are destroying this country. Unemployment percentages will not drop unless the goverment creates jobs and that is not the answer. Harley Davidson is a corporation we are all familiar with. Upper management OKed millions and millions of dollars in bad loans. Thats why the company is in trouble. They have a meeting with the line employees threatening to move the operation overseas if they dont take a cut. Yet upper management is responsible for the mess Harley is in. Buell was making money but the idiots shut it down because they needed immediate cash flow. Jerry you try to blame Harleys mess on a union. I can go on and on and everything I just said can be verified. Jerry I wish you much sucess and happiness in life but there is another side you refuse to see. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/12/10 at 15:40:28 LA - Your assumption is partially correct. During undergrad, I was a flight instructor at Ohio State University's Dept. of Aviation, part time. That income and my ROTC check paid for school. I never lived off of "mommy and daddy" after high school, except my widowed mother allowed me to live in her rented house, rent free. Then, after college, gov't employment for a while ( U.S. Army). During law school, I was a construction laborer for 6 months, then I sold early generation estimating computers in the construction industry. Then I worked for another construction company as a corporate pilot about 2 days a week, and spent the other 3 days in an average week doing finance work for the same company. After that company went broke, and we were all summoned into a meeting to tell us we'd seen our last paychecks the week before, I got a job with the City of Columbus as a legislative aide for City Council, and then passed the bar exam and went into practice. That was for about a year, and gave me my disdain of civilian gov't employment. So, call those experiences whatever you will. I have no really meaningful comment about Harley's problems - I'm not a manufacturing guru - some might say I'm not a guru about anything. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 16:14:14 Jerry everything I said about Harley is true and can be verified. Harleys troubles are a direct result of upper management screw ups and yet the line employees are going to have to suffer for it. Is that fair. You did make the statement blaming it on the union's high wages as being the reason. You wonder why we hate big business. I use Harley as an example because this is a motorcycle forum. You try to convince me oil companies are investing in alternative energy but BP and Haliburton are trying to save $500,000 by not installing a safety switch. They just proved how much they care about the envirement. I apologise for accusing you of cutting back employee benefits, but that is the norm for big business. It creates more money for upper managemement and shareholders just like outsourcing. If you are going to try and defend major corporations in this day and age good luck. A worker who has worked for a company for 20 years gets his job outsourced by a CEO who has been there 6 months making millions of dollars a year. The CEO will leave in 3 or 4 years with a golden parachute and make millions the rest of his or her life. Happens everyday all the time, happens a lot on Wall ST, wait a minute arent those the companys we bailed out? Jerry you are an intelligent man, how can you just sweep all this under the rug and pretend its not happening. Jerry I smoke Pall Malls because I can no longer afford Camels LOL. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Gort on 05/12/10 at 18:53:17 7D727E747F7279757265707265170 wrote:
Of course the prototype was a monstrosity. Prototypes are just that, an experiment to see if it will work. 44 years more of R&D and it would have been pretty with leather reclining seats and AC. Gas averaged 32 cents a gallon in 1966, but when the Arab oil embargo happened in 1972 with subsequent rationing of gasoline, and cars lined up for 1/4 mile down the street trying to get a maximum of 10 gals. of gas on even or odd days, development of this technology should have been a priority. But our government did nothing. 44 years of advancing technology would have solved the issues they are now only recently addressing with this 50 year old technology. I find it difficult to believe that Big Oil did nothing to discourage our worthless politicians from making development a priority. Or perhaps the Pols didn't act responsibly because they knew Big Oil would heavily fund the Pols' opposition candidate's campaign funds. But whatever the reason, government failed us once again. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/12/10 at 19:11:24 Goverment is no longer for the people, by the people. It is now for big business, by big business. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/12/10 at 20:48:00 America . . . RIP . . . Killed by Capitalism. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/13/10 at 05:33:01 OK, you nay sayers, answer this question: Before I pose the question, I think all of us would easily accept the fact that all politicians like to be heros, and go down in history as such. If there were an easy answer to the energy question, do you really believe that every president since the early 1970s - Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bushes I and II, and now Obama wouldn't jump on it and become forever known as the president who solved one of the biggest issues of the last 100 years, maybe other than WW II? It's so easy for us to p!ss and moan, but remember that simple answers are usually reserved only for the simple problems of simple people. Interesting that some of you are now saying capitalism ruined America, when there is no doubt that we are still the only super power in the world, and not just from a military point of view. If any of these other, competing economic theories were superior to capitalism, why aren't the practicioners of those theories the super powers? Maybe some of you would prefer to live in Britain, which 100 years ago was a true super power, but we see where they are now with their all powerful gov't and social programs. The same can be said for all of the former powers of Europe. We obvioulsy know where communism got the USSR, East Germany, Poland, etc. during the run of that economic system. And it's only since the Chinese have begun to embrace the profit motive that they have emerged from poverty and backwardness into the spotlight. Profit is not a dirty word - it's the engine that drives economies. Even Obama said about a year ago that it will be business, not gov't, that will take us forward. One of the reasons I respect the man. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/13/10 at 06:53:04 Jerry capitalism was the best thing ever until greed took over. Company managers are now fueled by greed. Jerry you look after your employees, thats one of the many reasons I respect you, but that is no longer the norm. Twenty years ago it was and we didnt need a national health care system. Then along comes computers and global economy. American businessmen are back in the slave market working Asians for $1 a day. Slavery is alive and well in America again. Jerry youve made the statement American workers want too much money but we deserve to be able to buy a home, a new car every several years, send our children to school and maybe be able to buy a motorcycle. I'm not asking to be rich, but I want decent jobs available so people can support their families. Big business no longer cares about their employees. Companies are controlled by get rich quick management and shareholders. America is the land of the middleman, we no longer produce anything. Harley is even threatening to move overseas, NOT because of union employess. Its because upper management tried a get rich quick Wall St scheme and they failed. I'm tired of American workers being punished all for the sake of big business. The company I worked for quit giving annual raises and took away benefits while upper management recieved 50% bonuses. Now they are outsourcing every job they can. Jerry if you are a decent lawyer you should be able to put yourself in the defendants shoes and see their side. Everything I say is the truth and deep down inside you should know it. Most of the people on this forum did what I did, scrimped and saved to come up with $2000 to buy a used Savage. 15 years ago there were 3 new European motorcycles in my garage. I dont need 3 European motorcycles anymore but it would be nice to be able to afford one. Jerry pull your head out of the sand and look around, there's another world out there besides yours that most of us on this forum try to survive in. Greed is now controlling capitalism and it is destoying this country. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/13/10 at 07:14:03 capitalism is fine, just keep it out of govt. it's when capitalistic interests corrupt the govt system we have that ruins the country, there shouldn't be tax breaks for any company for anything. there should be reasonable tax rates though. I don't want govt crippling growth with taxes, but I don't want govt encouraging growth through taxes either. that's not a free market. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/13/10 at 07:20:41 Midnight - I respect the dilemma you talk about. Remember that I come from working stock - even though my father was a military officer, it was in the days when the military paid very little. My mother was a payroll clerk in a factory for most of her working life, and they never owned a home except for a brief time when I was about 10 years old. Greed is bad - no argument with that. Like all questions, this one has a scale. Where and when does a healthy profit motive morph into greed? I sure don't know. But to paint a broad brush and say that all big business is driven today by only an immoral greed is unfair, and not true. I can't reveal the name of the company, but one large American clothing manufacturer has about 100 factories world wide, many in Asia. They also have a large corporate flight department comprised of some biz jets with transoceanic range. This company flies into the factories, totally unannounced, with inspection teams about once a year for each one - the teams are looking for any unethical working condidtions like child labor, forced overtime, shortened meal breaks, unsafe machinery, or other practices that are expressly forbidden to the contractors who own and run these factories. This is a Fortune 100 American company trying its best to raise the standard of living for its workers. Is that a part of the world wide greed of which you speak? No. Why are the factories in Asia? Sure, cost of labor is a big part of that answer, but so is proximity to emerging markets. Cessna Aircraft Co. is one company to which I'm fairly close. They are manufacturing a whole new airplane in China - why? Because they recognize the immense potential of such a large country as a market for their aircraft. Sure, it'll be a while yet until China opens its skies to really free use by civilian aviation, since all aviation in China has heretofore been controlled by their military. But Cessna sees sales of about 500 biz jets a year in China within a decade, and those jets are made in Wichita, not in the relatively small Chinese factory that produces a tiny, 2 seat airplane for the training market. By building this little trainer in China, Cessna learns how to do business in China, how to adapt to Chinese culture, and where the market there is really going. Just a small example of what can be viewed as "outsourcing American jobs" that, if things go just half right, will enhance American employment in the long run. We'll continue to respectfully disagree about a few things. But our mutual disdain of greed is a common ground. Just please don't paint with such a broad brush and accuse every profit motivated business of dealing with greed as its only goal. Try to see the long term effects, like Cessna has, and maybe your views will moderate a bit. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/13/10 at 08:23:35 Jerry in 10 years those jets made in Wichita will be made in China. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Gort on 05/13/10 at 09:44:47 "Before I pose the question, I think all of us would easily accept the fact that all politicians like to be heros, and go down in history as such. If there were an easy answer to the energy question, do you really believe that every president since the early 1970s - Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bushes I and II, and now Obama wouldn't jump on it and become forever known as the president who solved one of the biggest issues of the last 100 years, maybe other than WW II?" Jerry, they may have liked to be the big hero, but they do not have the dictatorial power needed to fight the rest of the Pols and business men who have vested interest in not developing these technologies like they should have, 44 years ago. For example, if hydrogen cell technology would have been perfected within the last 44 years when the first one was put in GM's Electro Van, Big Oil would have lost hundreds of billions in gasoline profits. Knowing this, they would have used their influence every step of the way to slow down or stop the development of the technology. They would have funded the re-election campaigns of every Pol who would have gone on record opposing the program, and there would have been plenty who would have done so just to get the funding to get elected. Big Oil would have used their incredible economic power to influence any company that was involved in the development of the technology, through incentives to go in another direction, buy outs, take overs through stock purchase, or the promise of major contracts to the CEOs of the companies. Misleading media ads could have been purchased in an attempt to sway public opinion with false "facts". Media TV & radio mouthpieces could have been economically influenced to bad mouth the technology. The list of ways they could have halted the program is endless. When you have unlimited wealth, you can seriously influence the development of anything that threatens the continuation of that wealth. No USA President could change that, no matter how much he wanted to be a hero. He would have had to turn against the entire political system that got him elected, and they would have ground him up like meat as soon as he started making waves, unless some fool shot him first. It is far too complex a problem and he does not have that kind of power to effectively fight it. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Charon on 05/13/10 at 10:25:05 Hydrogen isn't the answer, whether used directly in internal combustion engines or indirectly in fuel-cell electric vehicles. True, hydrogen is abundant. Unfortunately, on Earth, it is abundant only in compounds such as water, which is already-burned hydrogen. Before hydrogen can be used directly as a fuel it has to be separated from whatever compound in which it is found. That separation requires at least as much energy as will be gotten when the hydrogen is used for fuel. The energy for the separation is usually electrical, so the pollution is effectively transferred to the electric utility's plant. It is also difficult to store hydrogen, since it cannot be liquified at normal temperatures under any pressure. High-pressure gas storage requires large and heavy storage tanks. Hydrogen can be liquified, but that process also takes energy and leads to the difficulty of keeping it VERY cold. There has been work ongoing for hydrogen storage using zeolites and lower pressures to reduce the difficulty of storage, but no one has found a way to produce the hydrogen less energetically. General Motors undoubtedly knew all this when they built the van as a demo. It isn't necessary to bring Big Oil into it as a conspirator. Someone will notice that hydrogen also exists as a substantial part of hydrocarbons - oil. True. But it is a lot easier to just burn the oil in the first place than to try to separate the hydrogen out. We spend a good bit of effort looking for "alternative fuels." But not all that far back, oil itself was the alternative fuel. Steam locomotives burned wood, then switched to coal, then about WWII to oil in response to a coal miner's strike. Steamships used coal at least up until WWI. The US Navy switched to oil because they could steam about twice as far on a load of fuel, and the switch to oil made the Pacific Fleet possible. Guantanamo Naval Station in Cuba was to have been a coaling station for ships transiting the Panama Canal. We still have very large reserves of coal. When oil prices itself out of economical use, that coal will return to play in one way or another. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/13/10 at 11:13:53 Gort and Charon - Charon used the same language I was about to. Hydrogen isn't the "magic bullet". Gort, there are no "magic bullets". Your post sounds as if hydrogen was the singular answer, and thru a conspiracy, it was not developed. Just not true. It it were the answer, hundreds of entreprenuers would have been on it like flies on manure. If large companies have so much power to defeat the little guy who is on to something, why then didn't IBM and NCR eliminate Apple and Microsoft when they were just budding operations conducted out of garages and spare bedrooms? I remember when NCR was the really dominant player in Dayton , Ohio where my parents lived right after WW II. NCR is only a shadow of its former self today. Tom Edison tried to squash George Westinghouse's development of AC current, and convince the country that DC was better. Well, we all know that all commercial electricity is now in the form of AC current. The railroad magnates of the late 1800s and early 1900s tried to squash the budding airline industry thru the late 1920s and 1930s. But once airplanes became safe and reliable, airline travel quickly surpassed rail, and the great railroad companies of history are now hauling no people. Same for the great ocean liner companies - they now operate only a few crusie ships, as they and all of teir money couldn't stop te advance of aviation, and in a day when aviation was just a bunch of little guys with an idea. That's the same story with all of these magic bullet scenarios - stomped under by a conspiracy that didn't exist. It's the same whether the subject is the infamous "100 mpg carburetor" that Detroit supposedly conspired to keep under wraps, or whether it's the hydrogen fuel cell. None work. Easy stuff for tabloid headlines, and that's all it is - tabloid headlines. But it's all too easy to fall for these fictions, and just blame everything on conspiracies that never were, and still aren't. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Serowbot on 05/13/10 at 11:30:44 Seems to me,.. solar, wind, and tidal, are the power sources that are un-depletable ... all generate electricity.... But electricity's problem is portability... batteries suck... So,.. I'm in love with the air car... compressed air, seems like a great energy storage medium... if I remember right, the air car uses .80 cents of electricity to go 100 miles.. not to shabby... There is the fear of the compressed air blowing in an accident, but... we're riding around with 10 to 30 gallons of gasoline in our tanks now... Bigga badda boom!... So,... where's my air bike?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by JohnBoy on 05/13/10 at 11:39:05 At the risk of repeating myself, “solar farms in space beaming electricity via microwave to ground stations!” We know how. We have the technology in place. We just don't have the political will to brake the hold of the oil lobbies. At a time when we should be putting America to work building a high-tech “electric” future; we are slashing the space program, and laying the groundwork for yet another “oil”war in Iran. And the rich get richer. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/13/10 at 11:45:58 JohnBoy - With Iran pursuing nuclear ambitions, and led by a bunch of crazies, where do you come up with your "oil war" theory? If the goal in either Iran or Iraq were to get their oil, just pay them 20% over the world market value for it. That would insure a supply, and make them sell to us rather than anyone else, and it would be a lot cheaper than any war. Your "rich get richer" comment makes no sense. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Gort on 05/13/10 at 12:38:04 646B676D666B606C6B7C696B7C0E0 wrote:
Jerry, I don't think you read my post very well. I did not say "large companies", nor "the little guy", nor "magic bullets". I specified Big Oil with its incredible geopolitical power and wealth being able to influence General Motors and the political system in this country in a multitude of ways, preying on the greed or political ambitions of the politicians and businesses, in order to maintain and or increase its profits. As for hydrogen being the magic bullet and the "singular answer" to our energy problems, I never said or inferred that either. Come on, Jerry! As for Hydrogen fuel cell technology being a dead end or, "none work", tell that to all the companies doing the R&D in an effort to make it practical and who have installed it in cars. Furthermore, had it been fully explored for the past 44 years after GM built the Electrovan, who knows what technology would have done with it. You never know the end result until you've exhausted all avenues, and industry clearly does not believe they have since they are still developing it. Only the engineers involved in the current development of this technology are in a position to judge the viability of it, not Joe Q. Public. And Jerry, comparing the 100MPG carburetor story with Hydrogen fuel cell technology is just plain silly. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/13/10 at 12:43:11 when Apple came about, they were inventing the PERSONAL computer, IBM made business computers that were huge and didn't see the personal computer as threat. Microsoft was actually working with Apple in the beginning, then IBM came knocking and Microsoft went with them and IBM created their PC's, the only thing IBM needed to compete with Apple was an Operating system, which they got from Microsoft, who licensed it to them with the ability to license it to anyone else too, so Microsoft allowed IBM to compete with Apple and for a while IBM was dominating the PC marketplace as the dependable computer, Apples were for schools and gaming at home. IBM's ego stopped them from offering to buy out Apple, the lil computer company that could was no threat to IBM and buying them would acknowledge the threat kind of idea. unfortunately I don't know anything about NCR but I suspect they were dependent on IBM or others for the interior guts of their machines??? and there was no political power over geeks in their garages and Apple also had a huge ego via Steve Jobs so there was no deal to be made ever with them, which is apparent even in their current day status. oh, and "rich get richer" cause that's what they do. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/13/10 at 12:54:28 7679757F7479727E796E7B796E1C0 wrote:
No we'll just go over there and kick their A$$ and get it for free and let the American taxpayer foot the bill. Thats Haliburtons plan. Is it just me or everywhere there is a screwed up mess thingy Cheney and Haliburton are right in the middle of it. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/13/10 at 13:21:55 183C313B3C323D21273C313027550 wrote:
No we'll just go over there and kick their A$$ and get it for free and let the American taxpayer foot the bill. Thats Haliburtons plan. Is it just me or everywhere there is a screwed up mess thingy Cheney and Haliburton are right in the middle of it. [/quote] It isn't just you midnight, Mr D1ckhead Cheny and Halliburton are always in the thick of it,just like the thieves they are. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/13/10 at 13:28:26 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/oil-spill-map.htm map of how the oil slick might grow/spread |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/13/10 at 13:37:15 Gee, if these theories are right, we'd be getting free oil from Iraq. Odd that we're paying the same price for it that others pay. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/13/10 at 13:48:16 no, haliburton and the oil companies get the free oil and keep charging the same, (or more if they can get away with it, and they can) that's the theory anyway, but energy was a big part of why we went to iraq, it wasn't WMDs, Iraq wasn't a threat to us then, now with us occupying them and terrorists camps growing there. . . |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by JohnBoy on 05/13/10 at 14:22:04 535C505A515C575B5C4B5E5C4B390 wrote:
Do the terms “Remember the Maine!”, and “Gulf of Tonkin”remind you anything? How about the Bay of Pigs? Then there was the Chilean coup of 1973, where Salvador Allende (the elected President) was murdered and replaced with Augusto Pinochet...remember him? I would be the first to charge that Iran is currently being run by crazies, but we brought it on ourselves. You might recall that in 1953 Iran's Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh was over thrown and replaced by the CIA. As the world recalls the Shah's son Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (who the CIA placed on the throne) remained in power until the Iranian's kicked him out and took American hostages, to make sure we understood they were serious. Check out Operation Ajax: Ervand Abrahmian states that Iran's oil was the central focus of the coup, for both the British and the Americans, though "much of the discourse at the time linked it to the Cold War".[82] Abrahamian wrote, "If Mosaddegh had succeeded in nationalizing the British oil industry in Iran, that would have set an example and was seen at that time by the Americans as a threat to U.S. oil interests throughout the world, because other countries would do the same."[82] Mosaddegh did not want any compromise solution that allowed a degree of foreign control. Abrahamian said that Mosaddegh "wanted real nationalization, both in theory and practice".[82] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat Would our government leaders try something like this again? Gee, I don't know...What do you think? I think, "that's how the Rich get Richer!" |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/13/10 at 14:39:35 And if the rich have problems we bail them out,We want them to know this is the land of opportunity. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/13/10 at 14:40:36 JohnBoy your comments are spot on, nail meet hammer dead center. ...Your "rich get richer" comment makes no sense. Jerry Okay Jerry, pay attention: Shaving the tiniest percent off the 2010 "defense" budget would feed, clothe and educate every person of woman born in the United States, and we'd still have the most awesomely formidable military arsenal in the history of the galaxy. But we don't talk about that stuff. We close libraries, cut education budgets, tax everything, and borrow from our children's future instead of tapping into the awesome reservoir of taxpayer cash shoveled into the Pentagon each and every year. There have been and continue to be some very powerful people in our country who reap immense profits from war and military expenditures and therefore aggressively seek to perpetuate them. Oil is the fuel of the war machine and on both fronts there are obscene profits to be made. The hyprocrisy of the deficit hawks who demand massive cuts in social programs to balance the budget while simultaneously complaining that we don't spend enough on "defense" is very hard for me to take. The "military industral complex" is bleeding this country dry in a multitude of ways, including financially, emotionally and morally. The MIC will make sure this country is always at war, with never an opportunity for peace. The question must be asked: who serves who? Does the Pentagon exist to serve the United States, or does the United States now exist to serve the Pentagon? Unfortunately, I believe it is the latter. I spent eight years in active service USAF… and during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. The Iraq war accomplished much of what George W. Bush and his handlers wanted to accomplish, in that it tremendously enriched numerous corporate allies of the Bush administration....are you starting to see evidence of the rich getting richer here yet Jer? President Eisenhower (a republican Jerry) gave us a warning about just where we find ourselves today in his farewell address of January 1961. QUOTE: "We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions… We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations. This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience… We must not fail to comprehend its grave implications… In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." We build a global empire. We are an elite group of people who utilize international financial organizations to foment conditions that make other nations subservient to the corporatocracy running our biggest corporations, our government, and our banks. Like our counterparts in the Mafia, Economic Hit Men (EHM) provide favors... "Interesting that some of you are now saying capitalism ruined America, when there is no doubt that we are still the only super power in the world, and not just from a military point of view." Jerry Jerry the opposite of excessive nationalism and self-righteousness is humility – national as well as individual. Humility enables us to critically examine our own behaviors and attitudes towards things, rather than hold to the certainty that everything we do is good and right simply because we are who we are. *Starlifter |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/14/10 at 21:47:57 Where's The Oil? No one really Knows. And nobody really knows where it is, or where it's headed. Federal officials are carefully tracking the trajectory of the oil that's made it to the water's surface and, increasingly, on shore. They even put out a daily map. But there's never been an oil spill this big and this deep before. Nor have authorities ever used chemical dispersants so widely. As a result, some scientists suspect that a lot, if not most, of the oil is lurking below the surface rather than on it, in a gigantic underwater plume the size and trajectory of which remain largely a mystery. Oil on the surface can be fairly easily spotted by helicopter and satellite. But tracking an underwater plume is a much more complicated task, which thus far appears confined to one lonely improvising research vessel whose crew had been planning to hunt shipwrecks. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by BurnPgh on 05/14/10 at 22:11:08 according to comcasts news bullitens some scientists estimate it coul dbe as much as 12 times worse than the government and BP are saying. 210,000 gallons X 12. 2.5 MILLION gallons a DAY. Then again other scientists say the government estimate may be just about right. Lets say its dead in between at 1.25 MILLION a day. I still say we're pretty much screwed so far as our present mode of civilization goes. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Stimpy on 05/15/10 at 07:11:48 I still say we're pretty much screwed so far as our present mode of civilization goes. :-[ yup, sad but true, I just never thought that what would start the chain reaction would be something like this, something so careless, dirty and vile that would take so many ecosystems with it. ...but IF you think about it it's just perfect cause this way there is no one really to blame, it's an "invisible" common enemy, get it? That's how it will go down in history, as an unfortunate "accident" where we're all victims (yeah right). I'm still plain speechless why no one is reporting this nor doing anything about it other than trolling for surface muck with shrimpers, jeez. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/15/10 at 07:37:23 Stimp you say there is no one to blame but Haliburton and BP failed to install a $500,000 safety switch after Dickhead Cheyney made it legal not to install the switch. Its true we all should have made more effort to switch to alternative energy but the above are guilty of criminal negligence. I realize punishing them is not going to save the planet but letting them get by because they have more money than God is not the right thing to do either. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/15/10 at 08:14:55 I’ve been absent from this forum for a while and catching up on this post. The level and amount of naive comments in this forum always surprise me. This forum is not a representative sampling of the general population and I’m not sure exactly why that is. I have some theories, but that’s for another day. There is no super secret giant conspiracy at work. Corporations are run by competitive people whose life revolves around making money. Sometimes they break the law. Sometimes they cut corners. Sometimes they work with each other and sometimes against each other. Politicians are generally narcissistic personalities who crave power. Put those two together and you have battles that ebb and flow back and forth. All citizens (themselves included) live in a world shaped by those battles. Halliburton and thingy Cheney are not the Empire and Darth Vader. Greenpeace is not Luke and the Rebels. If Halliburton committed criminal negligence, prosecute them, but don’t set up them or whomever is the latest straw man, up as some kind of evil empire. But remember this, like the spoiled teenager complaining to his parents, reality can fall on you like a ton of bricks. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/15/10 at 08:27:53 "reality can fall on you like a ton of bricks" Webster would you wire a house and leave out the breaker box to save money? Would you drill a hole a mile deep in the ocean floor and not install a safety switch? Cheyney, BP and Haliburton could have just destoyed this planet as we know it, is that real enough for ya? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Charon on 05/15/10 at 09:30:40 At least according to one report I heard, a "safety switch" or Blow Out Preventer was installed. When the blowout happened, the preventer tried to work, but failed because part of the drill string was still in the pipe. I don't know whether that report was true, nor whether the story has changed since then. It is going to be really difficult to go after BP, Halliburton, Cheney, or anyone else for criminal negligence, if their actions were in accordance with laws or regulations. Seems to me it will be difficult to actually force them to pay in excess of the Federally set legal cap on liability, too. They may do so voluntarily, but they probably cannot be forced. There is a saying "Safety regulations are written in blood." A dozen or so men died in the fire on the drilling rig, and more were injured. That is quite aside from the loss of a very expensive drilling rig. I feel very sure no one, including BP and Halliburton, really wanted that to happen. The results of this blowout, sinking, and oil spill will likely be more safety rules, and we will hear much carping about more Government intervention in our lives. We can't have it both ways. We can't have increased regulation and less Government intervention at the same time. You want oil? You want gasoline for your motorcycle? BP and others respond by drilling, and oil spills are going to happen. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/15/10 at 09:48:08 Its no secret Cheyney had the safety switch deregulated. Of course it would be almost impossible to prosecute. Thats one of the major things wrong with this country, politicians are above the law. They get away with sex and money scandals, now Cheyney could have destroyed this planet. Only time will tell. Everything has been set up where he is above the law. Cheyney and Bush should have been tried for treason when they lied about WMD's. How many innocent Americans have died over there so Haliburton can drill more oil wells? We are pumping innocent American blood in our fuel tanks, thats one reason all my vehicles are efficient. I do have a pickup that gets 20 mpg but I drive it only when I have to which amounts to a couple of thousand miles a year. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Charon on 05/15/10 at 11:10:49 We are not "pumping innocent American blood" anywhere. You are free to believe that, if you like, but the "innocent American blood" is flowing through the circulatory systems of every American who buys or uses oil in any way at all. If there were no demand for oil, BP would not exist. I am not trying to defend BP, since they probably could have taken additional steps to prevent the blowout. Think of it another way. No oil company, including BP, wants to be on the hook for a spill cleanup. No oil company want the negative publicity that comes with such a spill. And from a purely profit motive, all that spilled oil represents product they cannot sell. It is lost value to their investors and lost dividends to their shareholders. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/15/10 at 11:32:17 Did the kids overseas die for WMD's or have they died for Haliburton's oil wells? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/15/10 at 13:26:51 The Bush administration brainwashed some of the American people in to thinking Iraq had WMD,Some American people are still brainwashed. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by JohnBoy on 05/15/10 at 14:05:28 It's time for me to play devil's advocate for a while. Most of you know by now that I have bit of a problem believing that Big Business and our Government have “my” best interest at heart. Many of you are old enough to remember when Jimmy Carter had solar collectors installed on the White House roof and that Ronald Reagan had them pulled down. This was done with the support of most of the American voters. We, “I”, had just lived through a period when we were actually killing each other over our place in a gas line. As soon as the threat of being forced to change passed, we went right back to our “comfortable” life. I myself rushed out and bought a E150 van! I would love to blame all the evil of the world on BP and their kind, but I am reminded of the famous line of Walt Kelly's “Pogo”, “We have met the enemy...and he is us!” |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/15/10 at 14:22:00 I don't remember them having us vote on taken the solar panels down.We have met the enemy he is congress. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/15/10 at 15:19:03 destroyed the planet as we know it??? Really??? That's a solid 10 on the silly meter. No one knows what effect the spill will have. The only certain thing is it won't destroy the planet as we know it. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/15/10 at 15:23:41 Charon- logical and thoughtful comments. Johnboy: who said big business was out for your best interest?? They respond to what we want in a manner that improves their best interest. It's called capatilism and it's why you're not living in a hut and making marks on a piece of stone. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Gort on 05/15/10 at 16:17:32 They also have the economic/political power to restrict, influence and mis-represent what you can choose from, so that what you think you want, is really in their best interest. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/15/10 at 17:37:38 kinda curious how the administration, being democrat and tree hugging and all, as the right accuse them of, have let them keep trying this attempts to retrieve the oil instead of just plugging the hole, couldn't they plug the hole then just drill another well into the same reserve of oil??? seems they are listening to the oil companies and the oil companies wants instead of fixing the problem |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/15/10 at 18:18:34 5A686F7E79687F406C7F660D0 wrote:
Almost a month later and its still pouring God knows how much oil into the ocean. Thats real silly Webster. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/15/10 at 20:26:32 "It's called capatilism." WebsterMark. Webster, please go back about 19 posts or so and read my post (the long one) concerning capatilism. No really, go back and read it or read it again. Then come back and talk to me about "Capatilism." *Starlifter |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/15/10 at 22:08:31 Oil from spill may be entering Gulf Loop. Source Palmbeach Post. Oil may be on its way. New satellite images show oil starting to enter the Gulf Loop current, which would pull it through the Florida Keys, into the Gulf Stream and up to Palm Beach County, according to a scientist tracking the oil spewing into the gulf. The new images, taken Saturday by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, "clearly that the oil is being pulled into the Loop current," according to a release from Mitch Roffer, an oceanographer who runs Roffer's Ocean Fishing Forecasting Service and has been providing daily updates on the spill's movement. "We still don't know how long it's going to take to get around to the Keys and then the east coast of Florida - it just remains to be seen," Roffer said Saturday. That process, which is difficult to predict, would take at least a week, and possibly several, scientists say. Richard Dodge, the dean of the Nova Southeastern University Oceanographic Center, said he'd seen Roffer's report and "it looks to me like he's right. "It hasn't quite happened," Dodge said, noting that currents might still shift to force the oil away. "But from the satellite photos that I saw, it sure looks like it's going to happen." |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/15/10 at 23:27:01 Oil spill could go on for years, experts say. The retired chairman of an energy investment banking firm told National Geographic in little-noticed comments Thursday that efforts to stop the oil leak under the Gulf of Mexico could prove fruitless and than oil could gush into the ocean for years. Matthew Simmons, retired chair of the energy-industry investment bank Simmons & Company, said that BP and the US military's engineers are more or less clueless about cutting off the flow. "We don't have any idea how to stop this," Simmons said. The former banker mocked a proposal to try and plug the leak with trash, saying it was a "joke." Simmons noted that the pressure at 5,000 feet undersea -- where the well site is located -- is so high, that containment efforts are likely often to fail. At 5,000 feet underwater, blocking elements have to be able to hold even with pressures off 40,000 pounds per square inch. ---snip--- "You're talking about a reservoir that could have tens of millions of barrels in it," Resink said. At the current spill rate, it "would take years to deplete," he added. According to a scientific analysis of footage from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico showing the leak, National Public Radio claimed Thursday that the growing ecological disaster is actually ten times worse than previously estimated, saying the rushing torrent of oil pouring into the ocean is equivalent to one Exxon-Valdez spill every four days. ---snip--- The Deepwater Horizon well has been jetting oil unabated for just short of one month at time of this writing. Already, the pollution exceeds a scale which most individual humans can fully grasp. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/16/10 at 06:08:28 Star; I'm 49 years old. I've lost count how many events were going to 'change the world as we know it'. From Silent Spring, to the Exxon Valdez to global cooling to global warming, to Mount St. Helens and on and on and on..... The truth is no one knows, time will tell. The only thing that is known is that Chicken Little's come out of the woodwork every time something happens. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/16/10 at 06:16:06 you mean your version of the Peter Baily speech to Mr. Potter? You must be a leftover hippie from the 60's right? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/16/10 at 06:41:08 I think the leak was sabotage,By the USA or Muslims,or some other countries,We might not know for along time,How bad it is I hope its not as bad as Global warming.Since 911 and WMD you cannot believe anything you hear or read or see on TV,they only show what they want people to see. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by dasch on 05/16/10 at 07:28:16 Gotta be some other country. Danmark perhaps. Surrounded with water - they oughta know their diving rather well!! :D |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by cornfuzed on 05/16/10 at 07:44:04 unfortunate as this all is with all the finger pointing back and fourth with an inept response as i see it.. makes me wonder who will capitalise from this calamity... as i see it there are two concerns... 1 - if it is not plugged / capped soon how can they attempt during hurricane season ... :o Yikes that will be a mess 2 - China is commited to getting oil in the gulf.. you think this is bad ? ever use china tools ? who gonna get the blame once we in the interest of mother earf dont drill there and china does who aint the least wise worried about our soil getting soiled by oyl they are getting... so while all the dems blame the repubs who blame the dems blammen them letting dem dirty low down good fer nuthin big oyl co go an ruin on purpose our coast lines... I submit there should be a pause to reason to determine an appropriate studied response as i dont think golf balls pluggin the hole gonna do it nor do i think gun totin bikin bimbos are responsible and am concerned about a foreign agency working the oil field in the gulf while we sit back pattin ourselves on the back cause our wind powered petal bikes aint makin our shores all gummed up... yep its a mess yep it was made by humans yep it will get resolved an yep there will be a GIANT bill submitted to the fine folks at BP an yep the consumers will pay for it via a "small" price hike to their gallon of gas... just thinkin and gettin ready to go ridin... WOOO! again! ps.. the Exxon Valdez incident was to my understand far worse than this to this point of volume of oil spilt and no the environment didnt die out there... aint gonna here... http://www.princewilliamsound.com/pws-daycruises.html dont think that would be happening if it was alll destroyed ... 8-) Peace an go ride yer oil using joy on two wheels |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/16/10 at 07:49:37 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
I take it from your posting of "Barack The Magic Negro" that you didnt vote for our president. Sorry Webster but that puts you in a minority. I have my theories about your post and and they all point to Rush Limbaughs backside, but thats enough said, I'll save the rest of it for another day. ;D |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/16/10 at 08:03:35 When you read or see something about the oil spill,Keep in mine what Dolly Parton says,Ask me anything you want, I'll tell you what I want you to hear. :) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/16/10 at 11:56:47 Minight; it puts me in a minority of VOTERS. As it stands right now, I believe I'm in the majority. aw... the old Rush Limbaugh fallback...wow, never heard that one before. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/16/10 at 12:14:01 427077666170675874677E150 wrote:
I know you hear that all the time. For once Webster we agree. ;D |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/17/10 at 22:06:31 "The only thing that is known is that Chicken Little's come out of the woodwork every time something happens." Ah geez Webster, you are right about this oil spill thing. No big deal, move along folks, nothing to see here. ::) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/18/10 at 07:55:02 BP Chief: "Oil Spill Impact 'Very Modest." Greg Milam, at BP's crisis control centre, Houston, Texas The chief executive of BP has told Sky News he believes the massive Gulf of Mexico oil spill will end up having only a "very, very modest" environmental impact. Experts had feared the Deepwater Horizon disaster could have led to one of the worst environmental catastrophes in US history.But the British oil giant has risked outrage along the Gulf Coast by predicting a far smaller impact. Dr Hayward said: "I think the environmental impact of this disaster is likely to have been very, very modest. "It is impossible to say and we will mount, as part of the aftermath, a very detailed environmental assessment but everything we can see at the moment suggests that the overall environmental impact will be very, very modest." ;D ;D Yeah.. and Hiroshima created a "modest" amount of destruction.... |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by bill67 on 05/18/10 at 08:26:35 On a scale of 1-100 I know for sure it will be between 1-100. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Midnightrider on 05/18/10 at 08:56:20 Everything is gonna be just dandy, its a 10 on Webster's silly meter. ::) How bout a big plate of Gulf Shrimp :) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by buttgoat1 on 05/18/10 at 09:45:31 now we see what BP's money bought: Last year the Obama administration granted oil giant BP a special exemption from a legal requirement that it produce a detailed environmental impact study on the possible effects of its Deepwater Horizon drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico, an article Wednesday in the Washington Post reveals. Federal documents show that the Department of the Interior's Minerals Management Service (MMS) gave BP a "categorical exclusion" on April 6, 2009 to commence drilling with Deepwater Horizon even though it had not produced the impact study required by a law known as the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). The report would have included probable ecological consequences in the event of a spill. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19027 looks like obama snookered yall, course hes for the little guy, lol not people, but the millions of little $ in his pocket and What caused that catastrophic, sudden and violent failure? Was the well properly designed? Was the well properly cemented? Were there problems with the well casing? Were all appropriate tests run on the cement and casings? These are some of the critical questions that need to be answered in the coming weeks and months. Over the past several days, some have suggested that the blowout preventers (or BOPs) used on this project were the cause of the accident. That simply makes no sense. A BOP is a large piece of equipment positioned on top of a wellhead to provide pressure control. As explained in more detail in the attachment to my testimony, BOPs are designed to quickly shut off the flow of oil or natural gas by squeezing, crushing or shearing the pipe in the event of a “kick” or “blowout” – a sudden, unexpected release of pressure from within the well that can occur during drilling. The attention now being given to the BOPs in this case is somewhat ironic because at the time of the explosion, the drilling process was complete. The well had been sealed with casing and cement, and within a few days, the BOPs would have been removed. At this point, the well barriers – the cementing and the casing – were responsible for controlling any pressure from the reservoir. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6462 |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/18/10 at 11:25:40 I didn't know Obama was the pres in 2001, DEEPWATER HORIZEN Was an ultra-deepwater,dynamically positioned,semi submersible offshore drilling rig which sank on on April 22,2010,causing the deepwater oil spill the spill was the result of an explosion two days earlier where 11 crewmen died.Deepwater Horizen was built in 2001 in South Korea,is owned by transocean and was leased to BP until Sept 2013.She was registered in Majuro,Marshal Islands,in Sept 2009 the rig drilled the deepest oil well in history at a verical depth of 35050 feet,the oil spill may become the worst enviromental disasters in US history. ACTUAL BUILDERS. Hyundai Heavy Industries,it took 3 years to make. so if you are thinking of buying a new Hyundai, think again. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/18/10 at 18:15:08 Yeah goat, I guess Obama wasn't smart enough to order his cabinet to look around for these horrendous environmental time bombs that the Bush b@stards left us. What other inspectors were fired so big business could "breathe easier?" What other safety measures were scaled back so big business could "maximize profits?" What other tests were forged because a real test would reveal faulty oil containment vavles? These grubby greedy oily con artists' will destroy anything for a fast buck. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by tcreeley on 05/18/10 at 19:16:37 High estimate is that Lake Palin is growing by 4 million barrels of oil leak a day- estimate used to be 210,000 gal a day. Heard BP didn't want safety valve because if it kicked in- the well was done- would need to drill a new one. Also heard that Russia capped leaking wells with bombs- permanent seals. Heard BP wants to get the oil so not interested in permanent seal. Lake Palin - you're showing up in the Florida Keys now :-/ - tar balls. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/18/10 at 19:43:32 BP withholds oil spill facts — and government lets it snip// By Marisa Taylor and Renee Schoof | McClatchy Newspapers WASHINGTON — BP, the company in charge of the rig that exploded last month in the Gulf of Mexico, hasn't publicly divulged the results of tests on the extent of workers' exposure to evaporating oil or from the burning of crude over the gulf, even though researchers say that data is crucial in determining whether the conditions are safe. Moreover, the company isn't monitoring the extent of the spill and only reluctantly released videos of the spill site that could give scientists a clue to the amount of the oil in gulf. BP's role as the primary source of information has raised questions about whether the government should intervene to gather such data and to publicize it and whether an adequate cleanup can be accomplished without the details of crude oil spreading across the gulf. Under pressure from senators, BP released four videos Tuesday, but it hasn't agreed to better monitoring. ************************************************** Time to nationalize BP, seize their assets, prosecute their top people, and spend their money to fix this. >:( |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by buttgoat1 on 05/18/10 at 19:50:06 082F3A2937323D2F3E295B0 wrote:
enjoy your kool aid is dohbama responsible for ANYTHING? he wanted it and he got it too bad he spent all his time cashing all those BP checks,bowing to everyone around the world, instead of filling administrative positions as long as we are nationalizing, lets lett all the overpaid Federal emplyees payback all the money they didn't earn.............. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/18/10 at 20:42:13 Umm, goat, who's defending Obama in all this? He is indeed also culpable in this mess (he's a politician isn't he?) This is a catastrophe that supercedes political ideologies and your constant defending of big oil is as bewildering as it is stoopid. (As for us overpaid federal employees, just what line of work are you in? I'd be interested in knowing.) And by the way for your edification, Oil Pumped From Ocean Wells IS NOT MEANT FOR USA CONSUMPTION. The "Drill, Baby, Drill!" crowd are liars. Oil that's pumped out of the Gulf of Mexico or the California coast or Alaska's North Slope is not meant for or reserved for US ccnsumption. It is sold to the highest bidder on the world markets. China gets a lot of it. This would also be true of all the offshore drilling that Obama wants to do from Florida (east and west coasts) all the way up the Atlantic seaboard to New Jersey. We'd take the environmental risk but it would do absolutely nothing to reduce the amount of oil we have to buy. This was clearly explained during Keith Olbermann's interview with Chris Hayes of the Nation Magazine a couple of weeks ago. The arguments also, speaking from the right, that the "drill baby drillers," like half-Governor Palin, that domestic drilling remains crucial to energy independence, the oil that's coming out very successfully right now, unfortunately, not into anybody's coffers but the B.P. oil and other companies in the Gulf and elsewhere, this is not--when it is not spilled and destroys ecology, it does not automatically go into the U.S. and does not automatically go into the domestic reserve. It's sold on the open world market like every other barrel of crude that comes up safely out of the desert Saudi Arabia. Wouldn't that make that entire "drill, baby, drill" argument, (what's left of it after this disaster,) sort of make you feel foolish? Or do you just feel secure wearing those cute little ideological blinders that so much improve upon tedious old reality? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Gort on 05/18/10 at 21:13:45 Star, I had no idea that the offshore drilling went into the world market, especially after all the lying politicians claimed it would help our shortage in the USA. Thank you for your good work, and please keep it up. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/18/10 at 21:54:39 Thank you Gort, will do. ;) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by buttgoat1 on 05/19/10 at 10:06:29 Lifter I work in the manufacturing/construction industry we laid off approximately 50% of the workers here and those remaining got a pay cut. now how many feds got laid off? and how much of a paycut did you get? you targeted an industry that you felt did not deserve the money it earned and felt that it should be nationalized and thus returned to the people. That is exactly what I said for federal workers only I only wanted 10%. you really seem angry with your posts, is everything ok? |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Trippah on 05/19/10 at 19:35:33 The only real solution is to move Washington DC to Kansas, and give every pol a little dog. Wishing and hoping, hoping and wishing. THE MOST realistic view is the more local the government, the more observable it is...that is why state governments (excepting perhaps New Jersey and Mass) can't match the Feds for graft, corruption and the usual buy a vote stuff. As a Yankee, it hurts me to say the War of northern Agression may have been a boo-boo. We neeed to take back to the states many of the federal programs, and most of the states prorams should go back to the cities and towns. But it won't happen. easily., |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/19/10 at 20:16:10 The war of northern aggressin?? South Carolina seceded because it felt its right to treat human beings as chattel was threatened. South Carolina then opened fire on Fort Sumter when federal troops refused to surrender and vacate. Seven more states seceded, each in turn copying South Carolina's declaration, in which it outlines fears that slavery might be ended as a core reason for leaving the union. In other words, the southern states, spearheaded by South Carolina, committed treason against the country and instigated the bloodiest war in American history, because they felt it was their divine right to treat human beings like farm animals. I tend to call it the 'war of Southern treason. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/19/10 at 23:18:38 6A4D584B55505F4D5C4B390 wrote:
And now they have a nice clean name for slavery, if Texas has any thing to do with it, "Atlantic triangular trade" . |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/20/10 at 05:33:44 Lifter - Cool your jets, my friend - you're going to have a heart attack over these things. There were many causes behind the secession of the southern states, slavery being only one of them. Please don't think for a nano second that I would stoop to advocating slavery. Slavery was a dying institution, however. Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin, together with the subsequent mechanization of all forms of agriculture made the relatively high costs of keeping slaves prohibitive. I was a history major in college before the "political correctness" movement, after which many historical facts were "revised" to meet a political agenda. Slavery would have disappeared within about 20 - 30 years after the War Between the States, even if there had been no secession and war. Even the most liberal of my American history professors knew and taught that. Like many other aspects of the economy, once the industrial revolution took hold, the old ways of farming by horse and human labor retreated into memory. Once slave keeping became more expensive than mechanical farming, slavery was doomed. In the 1850s, the North and the South were truly disparate sections of the country. The cultures of the two regions were far different. You have to remember that in those days, most common people lived their entire lives within, at most, a radius of 50 miles of their birth places. There was next to no travel, and next to no intermingling of these two cultures. To a Georgian or Carolinian of 1860, a Michigander, Ohioan, or New Yorker was as foreign to him as a Turk or Russian is to us today. If you really get into the history of American culture, you'll see that the serious conflict between the North and South had many roots. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/20/10 at 09:06:29 "There were many causes behind the secession of the southern states, slavery being only one of them." Jerry Revisionism. The Civil War was undeniably about slavery. Lincoln was neutral on the issue before the South seceded, but by 1863 was firmly against slavery. In fact, there were numerous Northerners who were pushing for reunification without abolition, something Lincoln was firmly against. All that bravery and heroism and great determination to hang on until the last man fell... just to have the right to keep their states' laws that allowed the rebels to forcibly retain another group of humans enslaved to them. They REALLY believed in their right to own black men and women and they fought to the death to prove it! And even today, those confederate supporters resent the loss of "their property", meaning the slaves - even those whose families did not own slaves, resent the loss of property that they HOPED to acquire someday. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/20/10 at 09:22:14 Lifter - Again, we'll respectfully argue this one without end. I know lots of Southerners - I know none who refers to the "loss of their property" to mean slaves. Most mean the loss of everything that Sherman, in particular, destroyed. Don't think that modern American soldiers invented rape, pillage and plunder. Sherman's tropps were real pros at it long before Vietnam or that prison scandel in Iraq. Sherman killed, either thru outright execution, or induced starvation, far more innocent civilians than our history books ever taught us. But since the North won, it's expected that this slaughter would be shoved under the rug. That's why Lincoln, Grant, and other Northern figures aren't reviled in the South today - but Sherman will be hated and despised for generations of Southerners to come - he was a true war criminal. There was no excuse for his strategy or tactics. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/20/10 at 09:37:43 "Sherman killed, either thru outright execution, or induced starvation, far more innocent civilians than our history books ever taught us. But since the North won, it's expected that this slaughter would be shoved under the rug. That's why Lincoln, Grant, and other Northern figures aren't reviled in the South today - but Sherman will be hated and despised for generations of Southerners to come - he was a true war criminal. There was no excuse for his strategy or tactics." Jerry. (From an earlier post of mine.) Oh and then there was "SHOCK AND AWE"...could anything in history have been more obscene than this? My God, what monsters were Bush and Cheney. And there was and may still be torture. What sort of person supports torture under any circumstance? Could you have ever believed that America could ever in your wildest dreams be guilty of committing such a travesty against humanity??? ...now if Sherem was a true war criminal...what does that make Bush and Cheney??? Will we be hated and despised for generations of Iraqis' to come? Sherem was a war hero who saved lives by convincing the south to "give it up." |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/20/10 at 10:26:03 Lifter - Just more proof that the character of war never changes. You and I, as former military men, know more than most, that war is a total revulsion of everything human. Career soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen value peace far more than those who never "put it on the line". The only real difference between us isn't the goal - it's merely the means to accomplish it. We all hate war. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/20/10 at 20:35:12 Amen to that. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/21/10 at 19:42:52 Oil spill's ugly reality sets in Source: New York Times Reporting from Grand Isle, La. This seven-mile squiggle of homey rentals and streets with names like Redfish and Speckled Trout had wrung hope for weeks from a single belief: Oil would land somewhere else. But on Friday, oil the color and consistency of brownie batter began tarnishing the shore of Grand Isle, a tourist town of 1,500 that draws its livelihood from thousands of weekend visitors. The dark ooze — the first direct hit from the massive gulf oil spill on a populated, popular shoreline — deepened anger and anxiety on the Louisiana coast as the slick swirled offshore with no containment in sight. "This place is shot now," she said, her voice quavering. Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oi... |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Stimpy on 05/22/10 at 07:18:28 Presenting BP's live disaster-cam! ...cause you can't let a good crisis go to waste! http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/homepage/STAGING/local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html :-? (wag the dog) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/22/10 at 22:00:06 Last night, on the CBS News, Katie Couric reported that BP officials said it will probably take until August to plug the oil gusher. The damage from waiting until August would be more than catastrophic. Is there even a word for how damaging it would be to our planet. The problem is...people can't see it. It's not like a fire, that you can see burning and progressing. The damage is hidden and there is a delay in the damage. I'm afraid that this disaster will have Obama's name on it. I think he needs to be doing more. He's allowing BP to run the show, and BP was even allowed to threaten arrest--by using our own Coast Guard!--when CBS reporters tried to take pictures of oil-soaked beaches. I don't have all of the answers, but if this gusher keeps flowing--this will be an epic, paradigm-shifting event. Our government has scientists and researchers--they should be dispatched and they should be working to solve this. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by mick on 05/23/10 at 17:10:33 5B7C697A64616E7C6D7A080 wrote:
at this stage of the game I would take help from the Russians, they have had some bad ones they managed to stop.They have offered there help,why arent we using it ? I still think a bomb would do it. PS and if we do use a bomb put the SOBs from BP down there with it. How about CATACLYSMIC sh1t ,even that seems tame for this bloody thing,makes me ashamed to be British (Born) |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by earlytimz on 05/23/10 at 21:17:50 Looks like we now know why Barry is taking so long to get anything done in the gulf. He's in bed with BP oil!! He took over $77k, the largest single donation by BP to a candidate since 1990. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=6584A5A0-18FE-70B2-A838E6437FBEC75D And I thought the Bush's were in the oil biz... |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by earlytimz on 05/23/10 at 21:22:18 http://i47.tinypic.com/2mhsc5f.jpg |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/24/10 at 08:01:12 Yup, every politician in Washington has dirty hands by getting them greased by some crook. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by tldk1678 on 05/24/10 at 08:33:19 Star, that's one thing we agree on. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/24/10 at 08:43:06 Despite Obama’s Moratorium, Drilling Projects Move Ahead. Source: New York Times. >snip< WASHINGTON — In the days since President Obama announced a moratorium on permits for drilling new offshore oil wells and a halt to a controversial type of environmental waiver that was given to the Deepwater Horizon rig, at least seven new permits for various types of drilling and five environmental waivers have been granted, according to records. The records also indicate that since the April 20 explosion on the rig, federal regulators have granted at least 19 environmental waivers for gulf drilling projects and at least 17 drilling permits, most of which were for types of work like that on the Deepwater Horizon shortly before it exploded, pouring a ceaseless current of oil into the Gulf of Mexico. Asked about the permits and waivers, officials at the Department of the Interior and the Minerals Management Service, which regulates drilling, pointed to public statements by Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, reiterating that the agency had no intention of stopping all new oil and gas production in the gulf. Department of the Interior officials said in a statement that the moratorium was meant only to halt permits for the drilling of new wells. It was not meant to stop permits for new work on existing drilling projects like the Deepwater Horizon. Obama appointed Salazar he is doing his bidding and Obama is doing BP's bidding. ...What it boils down to is America is owned by the Oil companies. They could poison thousands and Kill thousands and this government won't lift a finger to stop them. It has been 33 days of killling and NOTHING has been done....and nothing will be done. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Stimpy on 05/25/10 at 07:05:39 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my dog! ...yup, it's happening. - it's been a month now. - It's raining oil in 4 states now. - people will soon fall ill by the hundreds. - evacuations will start/have started to happen. - martial law will be declared soon in some areas. - Tampa bay might be evacuated as well. ...well, so much for the anti-conspiracy guy's "this is not a big conspiracy" theory, crap. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Starlifter on 05/25/10 at 07:18:39 ...Well if you live 7000 away from this catastrophe I guess it's is no big deal. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by WebsterMark on 05/25/10 at 07:59:15 There was a plane crash in India the other day, I'm still getting on a plane tomorrow. There will be dozens killed in car accidents across the country today, I'm still getting in a car in a while. Someone will die on a motorcycle today probably, I'm still riding when i get back home this week. Drill for oil, and you're going to have problems. Nothing is totally safe, nothing is perfect. Drill baby, Drill. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by earlytimz on 05/25/10 at 08:05:35 Rock on! If we don't do it, someone else will... And probably in our back yard!! Dang I love me some hydrocarbons!! |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by LostArtist on 05/25/10 at 08:08:17 Webster, drilling is fine, but there were regulations that were overlooked and stepped around on this rig, seems to me those regulations might have been important afterall. there is something to limiting risk in risky behaviors. wearing a helmet, wearing seat belts etc. . . your atiitude seems to be: why do any of that since "Nothing is totally safe, nothing is perfect." and I'm extremely aggravated that the first step to stopping the leak wasn't to stop the leak but to cap it in a way that allowed them to get the oil still. then when that failed they tried the same thing AGAIN! and now they put a lil pipe in the other pipe to syphon off some oil but not stop the leak, STOP THE FRACKING leak and drill a new well!!! they might finally be trying that now a MONTH and who knows how many thousands of gallons of oil later |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by earlytimz on 05/25/10 at 08:26:49 Maybe N Korea hit it with a torpedo..?? All jokes aside, we've gotta get this thing straightened out. I don't think you can put a number on the damage that's been done AND the damage yet to come! We need oil... We just gotta do everything we can to minimize the damage when something goes wrong. |
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Title: Re: Drill baby drill! Lake Palin growing by the mi Post by Stimpy on 05/26/10 at 01:55:35 ...Well if you live 7000 away from this catastrophe I guess it's is no big deal. We are all in the same boat star, and so far this is exactly what ppl are failing to understand. Coming generations will not forgive us for this one. Big hug and good luck to all. * New gallery here: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/oil_reaches_louisiana_shores.html |
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