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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> The way things are /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1276060039 Message started by Starlifter on 06/08/10 at 22:07:19 |
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Title: The way things are Post by Starlifter on 06/08/10 at 22:07:19 Perhaps it`s my age...mid-sixties, or fatigue from decades-long fights for civil rights, women`s rights, social and economic justice. Maybe it`s the sickening occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan after the heartbreak of Vietnam. Maybe it`s knowing that so many Americans willingly overlook homeless children and veterans while they name every single American Idol winner. Whatever it is, I honestly can`t take any more of it. My feet are sore from marching and my heart is sick from watching. This human, wildlife and environmental catastrophe in the Gulf is nothing short of a crime against nature and the responsibility rests on the shoulders of not only greedy, callous BP executives but every single Washington enabler and governmental "leader" that voted for, worked for, or supported deregulation in exchange for campaign backing or contributions. How the hell many more times are we going to dredge up excuses for gluttonous, shallow "leaders"? When every shrimper fisherman, and oysterman is sitting on the curb with a tin cup? When every textile worker ends up in a soup kitchen? We take real, good care of the fat cats (and other people that matter) in this country. Just check out some of the loopholes Congress designed. There may not be enough cash to repair the falling-down ceiling in an inner city school but there is always plenty for another bronze statue in a gerrymandered district or another load of clusterbombs. As the oil-coated wildlife pile up down in Louisiana and elsewhere (like the dead soldiers and maimed children piled up in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the drowning victims piled up in New Orleans) we should ask ourselves how much lower we`ll allow the bar to go. How many more excuses will we come up with? How many more principles will we be willing to sacrifice? I am one old liberal sickened and saddened by the state of my country. If we keep making excuses for the corporate takeover of our country then we should forgo the outrage when the big boys get their way and there's another disaster to deal with. Although there are many leaders that claim to be "for the working people" they almost always figure out a back room deal that favors anyone but the little people (aka middle class....aka us.) |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by mick on 06/08/10 at 22:22:27 I am 100 percent behind you Star. goddang big business owns and runs this country, We the people,my tushy. We need some lions to enter polotics,but to find just one that isn't crooked or paid off by big business,is impossable. Jimmy Carter cant run again. mores the shame. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Serowbot on 06/08/10 at 22:46:20 Hey!,.. buck up Star,.. snap out of it... No one can fix the world,... but everyone can do what they can... Who is it here, has the tagline,..."Tryin' to be as good a man, as my dog thinks I am"?... I love that... |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Stimpy on 06/09/10 at 05:08:23 If you want to be happy, change your mind. No, you are not alone here, a lot of people have this same mindset because unsustainability is finally catching up with the times and people's very lives are being affected like never before. Tell you what, I'll send you a PM soon with a copy of a letter (that has turned into a small book by now) that I'm currently writing to my brother touching all these subjects in a very matter-of-fact way. I'm sure you will enjoy it because you'll get to read completely different POV's about the same topics mainly because they are being written by and for someone half your age and with completely different backgrounds. The truth is that things are far from fine right now and will sadly turn for the far-worse before they start getting better. The key to getting out of this will be to truly understand our interconnectivity with every single person and living being on earth and beyond, and the causes and implications of all our actions, desires and aspirations and how each of us is greatly responsible for all this mess mainly because of 1) our inability as a species to understand the exponential function and unsustainability of all things and 2) because we are addicted to comfort and will fight with claw and teeth if anything threatens this lifestyle, ironically even if this leads to self-destruction. So long for now and you'll hear from me soon enough, in the meantime this is a good time to reexamine your life and see where exactly you fit into this great puzzle, and this goes for all of you! |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/10 at 08:21:06 The key to getting out of this will be to truly understand our interconnectivity with every single person and living being on earth and beyond, and the causes and implications of all our actions, desires and aspirations and how each of us is greatly responsible for all this mess mainly because of 1) our I disagree. I believe the way out is to get rid of the majority of the govt( You know, the parts not supported by the Constitution). We need to say NO to the debt the criminals have hung around our collective necks. People need to quit worrying about whether or not someone is wearing a seatbelt & they need to be concerned with whether or not Monsanto is gonna have us all dead or dying in the next few years. If you own Monsanto stock, you are invested in your own demise.. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Phelonius on 06/09/10 at 09:30:00 I would like to see the comeback of the tar and feathers tradition. Phelonius >:( |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Serowbot on 06/09/10 at 09:43:35 ...we can't spare the birds... How 'bout just tar?... |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by youzguyz on 06/09/10 at 09:55:31 1006110C14010C17630 wrote:
Plenty of tar on the beaches.. *sigh* |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Stimpy on 06/09/10 at 10:27:35 Absolutely agree with you JOG. The thing is that this is all very complex and most people cannot handle complexity anymore, and that's just the way they like it. The term "we the sheeple" is no joke, today they have everyone addicted to instant gratification mindlessly running after the next darn dopamine squirt and not caring about (or even understanding) the real issues or what's at stake. We somehow forgot how to take care of (and think for) ourselves and it's here where the nanny-state stepped in and did whatever they pleased while everyone applauded, the result are all your banks, bp's and monsantos. * Chuck Palahniuk once wrote: “I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God darn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy sh1t we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off. uckf darnation, man! uckf redemption! We are God's unwanted children? So be it!” |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by mick on 06/09/10 at 11:43:48 7C5B46425F562F0 wrote:
Stimpy,can you please send me a copy,if it's not to much trouble.thanks. Mick |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by LostArtist on 06/09/10 at 12:07:01 there needs to be some social responsibility taken by corporations, when it's not, the government should be allowed to step in. the argument is what social responsibilities we can all agree on. is the environment something we all agree on, and the answer is a clear no, there are plenty of corporations and people that would gladly pillage and plunder the environment for profit, and there are states like Texas that would love to let them, Texas if fighting the EPA now for even less control over "Texas Air" I breathe that air dang it, when I drive by a refinery, I wish I had a gas mask in the car or bike half the time, guess who's the main contributor of over the legal limit of air pollution? yep, bp. bp should be marked as a clear enemy of the environment and safety, all they care about is their profit. period. should they care about profit, yes, should it be their only concern, no. they are killing people and the environment for profit, period. I wonder how many other corporations are doing the same thing, as long as they can buy us all out with cheap products and buying votes and politicians with campaign donations and lobbyists, there needs to be a change in how politicians are allowed to get their money while in office AND after they get out of office. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/10 at 12:39:40 there needs to be some social responsibility taken by corporations, An inability to see deeper would lead to that conclusion. What we need is a well informed & ethical public who directs their dollars to the corporations who engage in good behavior. Today, Im thinking they would all die in minutes if America stopped spending $$$ with criminal/ unethical corporations. Our govt overseers have been infiltrated by the corporations they are supposed to regulate. FDA is & has been run by people from the drug industry for decades. Carter( IIRC) put the top paid lobbyist for the logging industry into the Head of Dept of Interior.. Gee,, wunner who got lots of access after that? |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by earlytimz on 06/09/10 at 12:58:21 There needs to be some social responsibility taken by corporations, Agreed! Plus, we all need to take responsibility for our own actions as well. This is good stuff & I believe it's a step in the right direction if we ever want to make a difference. We've all gotta learn to stand together for the good we wish to accomplish. Side note, since BP was brought up... There's been a lot of talk about boycotting BP. They also own Castrol oil, which USED TO BE my oil of choice. No more BP for me! |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/10 at 13:01:59 PLease, reread my post, the first line is a quote from someone else, I disagree w/ it. It would be nice & the only way to force them to do that is to punish them by not using their products/services when they are bad. Monsanto, ADM, Halliburton, Dyncor & the list goes on & on, criminal or just irresponsible corporations. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by earlytimz on 06/09/10 at 13:33:50 Yeah, I knew you were quoting LostArtist. I don't necessarily agree with what he posted about the government being allowed to step in, but I fully agree that corporations need to take responsibility. You're right, it would be nice... You're also right that it's not likely to happen without us punishing them. That's why I added the little blurb about boycotting BP. The sad part is we don't have a well educated & informed population. I think Starlifter stated something about the general public knows more about who won American Idol then the current state of affairs... That is so true & makes me sick! Ever seen Jay Leno do the Jaywalking? Those idiots don't even know who the vice president is!! And we expect these people to vote? Let alone make ethical decisions in the world?? I was merely touching on something I thought we all could agreed on... Was I that far off? |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by earlytimz on 06/09/10 at 13:41:15 Starlifter, it's not just you brother... Outside of the old liberal bits, I feel the same way! This isn't a right or left argument, this is a 'state of the union' argument. If you ask me, we're in a pretty bad state right now! |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by LostArtist on 06/09/10 at 14:20:58 495650574A4D7C4C7C44565A11230 wrote:
so you are going to research every company of everything you buy for what you consider ethical behavior, I bet there are others who will disagree with you on what "ethical behavior" is. some people don't see underpaying workers as unethical, some people do, etc. . . also companies are not going to willingly divulge their private business affairs to the public, and boycotts are fine, but losing the few people willing to do all the research before buying any product is probably a small price to pay for these corporations. and is it ethical to you to pay more for a product and take that money away from supporting yourself or your family? I'm not convinced we can trust businesses to do what's ethical and I know we can't trust government to do what's ethical. I agree we need to stop voting people with connections/corruptions into office but they are the only ones running. Quote:
scary ain't it :-? |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by mick on 06/09/10 at 16:27:55 2D0E1215201315081215610 wrote:
so you are going to research every company of everything you buy for what you consider ethical behavior, I bet there are others who will disagree with you on what "ethical behavior" is. some people don't see underpaying workers as unethical, some people do, etc. . . also companies are not going to willingly divulge their private business affairs to the public, and boycotts are fine, but losing the few people willing to do all the research before buying any product is probably a small price to pay for these corporations. and is it ethical to you to pay more for a product and take that money away from supporting yourself or your family? I'm not convinced we can trust businesses to do what's ethical and I know we can't trust government to do what's ethical. I agree we need to stop voting people with connections/corruptions into office but they are the only ones running. Quote:
scary ain't it :-? [/quote] I allways thought Leno's Jay walkers where cherry picked for stupidity. I hope so anyway,I guess there must be people that stupid, if so they probably don't vote,fingers crossed. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/10 at 05:46:58 2E0D11162310160B1116620 wrote:
so you are going to research every company of everything you buy for what you consider ethical behavior, I bet there are others who will disagree with you on what "ethical behavior" is. some people don't see underpaying workers as unethical, some people do, etc. . . also companies are not going to willingly divulge their private business affairs to the public, and boycotts are fine, but losing the few people willing to do all the research before buying any product is probably a small price to pay for these corporations. and is it ethical to you to pay more for a product and take that money away from supporting yourself or your family? I'm not convinced we can trust businesses to do what's ethical and I know we can't trust government to do what's ethical. I agree we need to stop voting people with connections/corruptions into office but they are the only ones running. Quote:
scary ain't it :-? [/quote] I cant study every product & every detail of everything, but I CAN know about Dyncor & Halliburtons SEX~SLAVERY RINGS , look it up. I can know that Monsanto is producing cancer causing agents in their GMO nuts. I can know about the SUICIDES of the WORKERS in the Iphone plant & have nothing to do with I phones. Pretending that since I cant know everything that I would need to know in order to do what I want to do perfectly is reason to know & do nothing makes as much sense as pretending that since I cant understand quantum physics I shouldnt bother with adding & subtracting/ |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by earlytimz on 06/10/10 at 07:12:30 MICK- "I allways thought Leno's Jay walkers where cherry picked for stupidity. I hope so anyway,I guess there must be people that stupid, if so they probably don't vote,fingers crossed." Yeah Mick, I would hope so too. I just don't think they're picked, these idiots are everywhere! There are several examples of this crap, here are a few. The first one sums it up pretty well, the second one is already famous of Howard Stern. I'm not trying to make a political point here, just trying to show how ignorant the public can be! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofgaa1_lk8I&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woBC5b3Ti0M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&NR=1 |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by ratz on 06/10/10 at 07:16:39 The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/10/10 at 08:55:46 Well, this old conservative sees things a little differently. First, if you think things are bad now for Liberal causes, go back 50 years - no Civil Rights Acts, no equality for women, very few minorities voted, etc., etc. Progress may be slow at times, but it always marches on with certainty. I'm just not a "doom sayer". I prefer to be optomistic, and realize that everything we do will have a few mistakes, a few wrong turns, and a few dead ends. But in the course of human history, each generation makes a little progress - all we can really ask. My take on things - Relax. The sky isn't falling and won't for a few billion years. Everything recovers. Sure, those poor souls in the Gulf may have their jobs or businesses on the ropes for a while, but look how so much of the world has suffered far worse devastations from wars, plagues, revolutions, and depressions. Yet, each time, a bettter world arose. As for boycotting BP - I have for years. Not because of any nefarious motive, simply because my auto mechanic calls their gas "green poison". I will always prefer Shell (Dutch - when did they do anything wrong lately?), and Marathon, headquartered up the highway from me in Findlay, Ohio of all places. At my airport, we sell Phillips aviation fuels, even though BP dominates the market in that industry, BP's credit terms extended to dealers really suck. I don't understand how or why BP keeps dealers. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Starlifter on 06/10/10 at 10:24:12 ...but, the social justices' you speak of, the improvements of workers rights, voting laws etc. were fought against tooth and nail by the right wing conservatives. Yes Jerry, everything is hunky dory....move along folks, nothing to see here. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Starlifter on 06/10/10 at 10:36:42 To everyone who has posted/responded to this thread, I thank you all. In addition this is the type of thoughtful intelligent dialogue that makes our cafe discussions interesting, thought provoking, and civil. Thanks again. *Starlifter |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/10/10 at 10:43:30 Lifter - Again, that's what politics is all about. We need both sides to balance things out, and even the "extreme" left and right wingers add a touch of balance. It's called a system of checks and balances for very good resaons. I'm quite sure that if either of us is totally honest about it, we'd admit that the "loyal oppostition" is a very good thing. We wouldn't want either polar extreme to run amuck, totally unchecked and unbalanced. When the debates get heated and forceful, as long as they remain civil, the result is usually better than the sum of the parts. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by babyhog on 06/10/10 at 13:24:50 Quote:
I know its impossible, but I would like to see this oil disaster treated like "natural" disasters get treated. Granted, in this case, there IS "someone" to blame, BP, et.al. But when real natural disasters happen (even 9-11 for that matter) people have banded together and "fixed" things.... Found cures for plagues.... People couldn't blame Katrina on anyone, so they cleaned the place up! Terrorists aren't going to "pay" for the clean up and the "moving on" as a result of 9-11 actions. BP will pay dearly in the long run. Find a way to fix the issue at hand, the rest will fall into place eventually. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by JohnBoy on 06/10/10 at 17:05:40 796F78657D68657E0A0 wrote:
Louisiana State bird is now the “tar baby” Thanks BP!!!!! |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by JohnBoy on 06/10/10 at 17:16:20 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
What we need is a set of laws that stop giving corporate America the same protection as an individual. When a board of directors can make a decision and hide behind the "corporate shield" then no individual responsibility is attached. Change the corporate laws, such that every voting member is responsible, and liable for the “Corporate” screw ups, and things will change. It is our country...they just get to play here. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/10 at 17:37:48 597C7B7D517C6A130 wrote:
What we need is a set of laws that stop giving corporate America the same protection as an individual. When a board of directors can make a decision and hide behind the "corporate shield" then no individual responsibility is attached. Change the corporate laws, such that every voting member is responsible, and liable for the “Corporate” screw ups, and things will change. It is our country...they just get to play here.[/quote] That just mite be a good start,, Im not seeing the down side.. anyone see a prob w/ that idea? |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Starlifter on 06/10/10 at 18:27:35 Yes, every politician has a vested interest in the corporations that line his/her/their pockets... Politicians don't leave $100 000 000 dollar jobs to become a politician just for the good of America. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by earlytimz on 06/10/10 at 20:01:52 301702110F0A05170611630 wrote:
This is true! They also don't appoint their "connections" from the corporate world to high level positions because they're the best qualified for the job... |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by earlytimz on 06/10/10 at 20:06:23 6467666B69730A0 wrote:
Yes! That's the American spirit we need now, just like we've needed before! |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 05:30:07 Justin - We already have personal liability of corporate directors for truly egregious malfeasance or any criminal act. To impose personal liability for the simply negligent acts of others would ruin goverance entirely. Are you proposing that a corporate director be personally liable for the simple negligence of underlings? That would be silly; tantamount to saying that a member of the board of Fed Ex is personally liable for every traffic accident involving a Fed Ex truck where the driver was at fault. Be aware that board members of major corporations often serve with nominal compensation; they are typically paid a small sum for attendance at meetings, and no more. Historically, it's been almost an honorary position for accomplished people to come onto a board and lend their various levels and areas of expertise to the company without meaningful pay. Again, relax, and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 05:54:35 We also have laws to be followed. What we dont have is any real accountability for the rich. Its a rare day when a really BIG white collar crime gets punished properly. Our so called "Leaders" from both parties have been party to numerous, obvious (IMO) illegal acts & none are hanging from a gallows as they should be. We have companies operationg outside of common sense & making dangerous products that can almost NOT be avoided, & none of their leadership is paying the price. I speak of Monsanto. I also believe Archer Daniels Midland is helping to move the poisoned products into our dining room, tho Im not fully certain of their ways being intentionally evil. We have sex slavery rings thru DynCor & what did our govt do? They continue to get govt contracts. Im saying, lets go after criminbal behavior. Lets have accountability, in biz & in govt. If I did half of what these creeps have done, Id be UNDER the jail. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 06:14:46 Justin - I don't want to argue these theories of food poisoning - too far out for me to give it any credibility. But if you think the rich and famous aren't accountable, ask Bernie Madoff, Leona Helmsley, Duke Cunningham, the Enron boys, Martha Stewart, etc., etc. Nothing gives a prosecutor more positive press for his future than to "bring down a fat cat". Thankfully, Elliot Spitzer of New York met his due in the end, but in the process of his horribly over zealous career, he ruined many a fine person's life. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 09:08:59 Thankfully, Elliot Spitzer of New York met his due in the end Yea, just as he was getting ready to lower the boom on some folks.. they shut him up. Sure, they get a few, If you arent up to speed on GMO crops & what they do, spend some time, Jerry. Youll be glad ya did. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 09:19:32 Justin - Elliott Spitzer was a hypocritical, evil man. His term as New York's Atty. General was reminiscent of Joe McCarthy in the 1950s. Going after any person was fair game as long as it produced a headline. I wouldn't not call his being a sleeper monger, and getting caught as his being "shut up". The man is just awful. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 09:21:55 Justin - Some automatic correction device in the forum changed a word in my prior post. Look at the word before "monger". I didn't type "sleeper". I typed the word commonly used to refer to practicioners of the world's oldest profession. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by JohnBoy on 06/11/10 at 09:23:20 Jerry, from my lowly rung on the ladder I see three distinct justice systems; one for the rich, one for the poor and middle class whites, and one for people of color. In my opinion nothing will truly change in this country until there is "one"justice system, and white collar criminals do blue collar time. As far as our elected officials are concerned I have two thoughts. First, as representatives of the voters, they should "all" be held to a higher standard. Second, when half the "registered" voters (the one in four of us actually qualified to vote) bothers to show up...we get what we deserve. God Bless America! because Americans sure wont get off their collective A$$ to fix it. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 09:31:07 7E717D777C717A767166737166140 wrote:
I see it from your side Jerry, I do. I also remember hearing who he was investigating & about to take down. I cant remember now, but it struck me as a big deal at the time. Just as , ohhh who was it? Trafficant! yea, okay, James TRafficant. He made a speech on the house floor & was making a ruckus about the fed & some of the financial mess we were walking into. he admitted to the corruption he had commited, saying"Yea, I did that. I did every bit of that. So has everyone here." The point is, when people start to rock the boat, unless theyre squeaky clean, they get the shaft. Then, if they cant be blackmailed by their past actions or bribed, their plane blows up or they go to jail, but the system will protect itself. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 10:43:50 Justin - Jim Trafficant wsa a Congressm,an from Ohio who went to prison for several years for taking bribes. He is now out, having completed a lenthgy sentence. He was a sheriff at one time, before being elected to Congress from the Youngstown, Ohio area - about as blue collar a part of the state as there is. Word has it that he is considering running again. The Dems up there would probably re-elect him - he was actually very popular with his constituents. He took a bunch of free stuff, as I recall, like improvements to his house by contractors who didn't get paid - that sort of thing. He needs a new head wig, though - his hairpiece looks like a raccoon's tail. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 10:48:55 Yea, that guy has the worlds worst rug.. always has. I think he sees it as his trademark. A coonskin cap would look better.. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by LostArtist on 06/11/10 at 11:26:08 7679757F7479727E796E7B796E1C0 wrote:
the baby can't see clear there is so much crap in the bath water! and the baby is a spoiled brat. board members get to advertise that they are a board member which gives them "credibility" which pays them back in the end so it is profitable to be a board member, otherwise they wouldn't do it. also they get some power over the direction of a company that they are part of or profit from somehow so again, their is profit for being a board member and it's not an altruistic act. board members also tend to already be highly successful and rich so they feel they need to control even more of the company. boards are just govt for companies about taking power for themselves. companies want to control you, just as much as, if not more, than governments do. as with government, when companies get too big they get dangerous, but there's nothing anyone can do about companies, no voting and no, you don't get to vote with you dollars cause companies are so diversified and with 401(k)s and other investments needed to even think of retiring you could be supporting evil companies just by investing in their stocks or bonds and even if you don't others are betting that you won't and then they'll make money off you and give it to their own evil company. we're all screwed, enjoy the ride! ;D |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 12:13:13 LA - I don't intend to be disrespectful, but I am glad you have so much experience with corp. boards, as you make factual allegations that can only come from experience. Now for reality - in the past couple of decades, I have turned down invitations to serve on a couple of boards for the very reason that I don't want to be the target of this rubbish. I know many others who, in past times, could have contributed a given skill or knowledge set, but chose not to for the same reasons. The same reason I turned down a judgeship when it was offered - I don't want my family or me to be a political target either. It's truly a shame that some folks take such a one-sided, uninformed view of the business world, without ever having been there themselves, or at least not at the upper levels. As for expressing your displeasure with any one company, or group of companies, simply stop buying their products or services. That's called "voting with your pocketbook", the most powerful vote anyone has. If you hate Walmart, don't shop there. If you hate BP, quit buying their gas. If enough people feel as you do (the true measure of impetus in any democracy, right?), the company will get the message that its customers want something to change. Otherwise, if a large number of people don't so join you, the majority's decision carries the day. Are you old enough to remember 30 years ago when the Detroit auto companies turned out crap? If you are, you also recall how Detroit quality has vastly improved, since the majority of American consumers started buying Hondas, Toyotas, VWs, BMWs, etc. Maybe the same reason that the once all-powerful manufacturer, Harley Davidson is in the shape it is now. You do own a Japanese motorcycle, right? Why? The majority of riders voted with their pocketbooks. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 12:24:05 Thers businesses & then thers Businesses. Monsanto, Dyn Cor, etc arent nice guys. Serving on the board for a local corporation, people who keep the local people working, etc would be an honor. Working on the board of a multi national that works to outsource the local peoples livlihoods & sell whatever crap they can for a profit w/ no care for the lives of the people? Not a good thing, IMO. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by LostArtist on 06/11/10 at 13:25:01 3A35393338353E323522373522500 wrote:
Jerry, it's a shame you see me as having a "one-sided, uninformed view of the business world" in a post where I was trying and obviously failing to simply state that your altruistic view of board members might be overly optimistic and that board members do profit from being board members in more ways than just the "nominal compensation" given to attend meetings. small businesses are great for the most part, just doing what they need to get through, but big businesses have challenges and face many ethical vs profit challenges and if they don't pick profit, they often lose to the other big business that does. it's a cut throat business world isn't it? that's what everyone keeps telling me, everyone being business owners and people with much more experience than I. I don't believe that it's a grand conspiracy theory to destroy humanity, but the evil things that happen can be an indirect consequence of the profit/greed motive. and I just don't believe in "voting with your pocketbook" mainly because I'm still kinda poor and I need to buy the cheap stuff of everything to make my budget. also there is no such thing as a perfect product. I also feel that voting with your dollar is an extremely slow way of making any kind of progress. and there are many many ways that companies you don't like can still get your dollar. *disclaimer: I am in no way an expert on businesses or their practices, so jerry is right in his sarcastic opening remark (good for him) :P |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 06/11/10 at 13:41:59 LA - I was sarcastic just because such broad stroke assertions do get my dander up. Of course, there are good and bad in every line of work, or anything else we do. The job of every company is to make a profit for the owners of the business, be it a large or small company. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and profit is NOT a dirty word. Profit does not equal greed. Profit motive is good; greed is not. When there are specific examples of provable wrong doing, I'm the first to champion rectifying them. But, again my issue is to not make broad accusations that everyone in a certain line of work is greedy, corrupt, lazy, dishonest, criminal, or even good, for that matter. Everyone, and every business is different. Sorry to offend. |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by LostArtist on 06/11/10 at 13:58:43 Jerry, no offense, sarcasm is a totally acceptable way to express yourself. I see a thin line between profit motive and greed. I don't know, just feel like profit should be a reward and not a motive, but that's a fantasy world. profit motive is like presetting the award amount, via cost vs expenses etc. . . I was in my original post I was balancing your broad accusation on board members :p broad boards?? okay, that was bad :( |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Starlifter on 06/11/10 at 20:44:36 JOG is right..Monsanto (for example) for one, is killing us all...slowly...very slowly... |
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Title: Re: The way things are Post by Trippah on 06/12/10 at 14:27:27 Well, as an olde liberal who can't believe his country voed for Bush/Cheney twice...i do often get a bit depressed when sane people suggest Palin is Presidential Material..What made America great was the very powrful companies that rode roughshod over anyone who disagreed with them..unfortunately it is the only way things get done. We would have no houses if every snail darter's habitat was protected. We have made progress..people of color can now vote and even get elcted president. Women can now vote..maybee some day get elceted president. Step by step. :D |
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