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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> How Id shut the oil down /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1276263114 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 06:31:53 |
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Title: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 06:31:53 Please, add your best idea. Here's mine. Since theyve cut the riser off, no more Top Kill attempts can be made, sooo.. I'd use explosives to crush the casing in on itself & slow the flow, until I could close it off completely. Here's how. It would be best to get below the bottom of the surface casing, but I have no clue how deep that is or what kind of formation its landed on, so, W/O knowing how many strings of casing are hanging there, the diameters, etc, Ill just drop an outline of the idea. Most folks are aware of the hydraulic hammer efect, sometimes old pipes will rattle if a valve is shut too quickly, so, imagine the casing from the well bottom, up to the BOP is just 6 inches, flowing at 800,000 gallons/day. Now, if someone shut that off at the top too quick, the hammer of that column of fluid, moving so fast, would surely rupture the casing, so, it needs to be pinched off carefully. How about this. Build 2 Big Tubes, one for each side of the well. Each tube has a window cut in it, covered for the trip down that will be removed after the explosives are in place. Build guides into the tube, to orient the explosives carrier. The carrier needs to be very strong & hold a shaped charge so that when the charges are set off, it doesnt destroy the carrier. The blast needed to collapse the pipe may not be as big as some might think. Ive played with det cord & wrapped some around some 2 & 3/8ths pipe. A few wraps will create a squeezed spot. Anyway, a series of small blasts, over a length of the pipe, no one blast to actually slam it shut, just use explosives like a hammer & slowly drive the pipe closed. Have to pull the explosives carrier out & reload, maybe, or make it long enough to have enough explosives so it could slowly crimp it in places & finally slam one shut of nearly shut. I believe if it cant be used to stop it, it would sure slow it down. It would be nice to know how the well is actually done & the strengths of the different strings of casing, depths, etc. I suppose it would be possible to go so far as to build a pair of explosives carriers to set down there that actually had metal projectiles to strike the casing & literally hammer it , slowly closing it off.. Or, Heck yea,, Inside a carrier, A few pieces of drill collar laid sideways & a wedge to drop in behind them, driving them in on the casing, I can envision several ways to try it. I wish I had a mechanical engineer & the specifics of the well & some Big Stuff to mock it up with & see if its feasible. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Tanker2Biker on 06/11/10 at 06:53:25 I thought I had read that one of their concerns, and the reason they had not tried to mount another blow-out preventer on top of the one that failed and shut off the flow completely; was that they were concerned about the condition of the well/casing below the surface. They were afraid that if they did shut off the flow, that the pressure would blow out again, below the surface, where they would be unable to do anything about it. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 06:55:20 If thats true, then the pressure has changed since they drilled it. & I guess thats possible, considering the free flow thats happened & the resultant erosion of the formation. They could still Slow it down some.. even if it cant safely be closed. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by babyhog on 06/11/10 at 06:58:48 I think I heard something similar to what Tanker is saying, but Justin's idea sounds reasonable too. He!l, if those explosive companies can drop a 50-story building, dead in its footprint, you'd think they could do some controlled explosions to shut the well down.... I think the near-by relief well has to be finished and is the best option. Haven't heard any word on its progress lately. Anybody know? |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Boule’tard on 06/11/10 at 07:36:54 The first containment/collection dome was fine. They just had to heat it up to melt the methane hydrate crystals that were clogging it. I would think that if they can weld stuff underwater, they could clamp on electric heaters or something. Once the pressure has bled down, the well can be clogged with a slurry of portland cement and BP executives. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 08:11:44 626F756C6574617264000 wrote:
I thot the same thing about the ice crystals on the first dome, Seemd silly to just give up. I stay with problems better than that. As for the pressure bleeding off, we have no seismographs to look at & have no idea the size of the gas dome thats driving the pressure onto the oil bearing part of the formation, or the pressure of the gas. No way to know how many years it might take for the thing to blow down if left unchecked. I think maybe one of the reasons the flow rate keeps being revised Up is that the formation is washing away & opening more & more into the high flow part of the formation. If in fact the pressure is now too high to contain, then we know the pressure is increasing, because it WAS contained at the time the drilling stopped. So, its clear that the formation is eroding& the bottom of the well is coming more into direct contact with the pressure, because the porosity of the formation that allows the oil to flow to the well bore is increasing due to erosion. Unless we know the pressure inside the dome, we cant know for sure if this well can become completely uncontrollable. At this point, it looks pretty bad to me.If the presure is more than the casing can hold, then it makes closing it off impossible. All that could be done at that point would be to choke it down to the point the casing could safely take. Yea, I trust BP with that... They do have some drill pipe still in the hole, but I dont know how much. IF theres enough to get it up to the surface & still have enough in the hole to not blow out from the oil rushing by, then maybe they could pick it up & get screwed back on it & go in & pump at the bottom of the hole. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Boule’tard on 06/11/10 at 08:34:13 I think reason the flow rate estimate keeps increasing is that they deliberately downplayed it at first, and continue to report the minimum plausible rate, but as the Louisiana coast gets sapped with oil, that plausible rate is going higher and higher. The waves and wind patterns aren't helping either. They are doing good by drilling relief wells to drop the pressure as fast as possible, however much gas and oil needs to be bled off. I know the engineering and management work required for even one of those platforms is epic. There will be spills now and again, and the environment and company will recover (see Exxon/Valdez). Armchair engineering aside (and I am sure we are ignorant of something that would make our ideas unworkable) all we can do is wish them luck in their containment and cleanup efforts, and continue to save oil by using small engine motorbikes. :) |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 09:04:59 I think reason the flow rate estimate keeps increasing is that they deliberately downplayed it at first. Thats about a given, but the flow rate on an unchecked well will increase as the formation erodes. My dad used to be a well control expert & explained this to me, years ago. He told me that an unchecked well will destroy itself eventually. This formation, tho, is not yet collapsing on itself. Hopefully, it will soon. All that needs to happen is for the flow to erode enough of the formation for it to fall down & for things to land around the bottom of the casing & restrict the flow. Hopefully enough debris will land there that the flow & pressure wont just shove it up the casing. By "expert" I mean he & a friend had a company & thats what they did. They had a pilot & a business jet & he kept a suitcase ready to go. I saw him hop outta bed & call the pilot & head for the airport a few times, to go & contain a blowout. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Phelonius on 06/11/10 at 09:23:16 [quote author=627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 link=1276263114/0#7 date=1276272299]I think reason the flow rate estimate keeps increasing is that they deliberately downplayed it at first. Are you suggesting that BP might fib to us about the amount of oil they are spilling? That would be pretty close to dishonest wouldn't it. I figure when I get to Hawaii, I will have about 6 months to enjoy the beach before the oil gets there. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Serowbot on 06/11/10 at 09:26:48 I like Boultard's idea... ... just keep stuffing BP execs in there, 'till it stops... If we run out,... we can switch to lawyers... Kidding Jerry... :-?... |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 09:38:35 Okay, I called BP. 281-366-5511 & they sent me a form in the email. Brief Description of Technology (200 words or less) This is a solution for the: SpillSource Large pipes positioned opposite each other, with either shaped charges or large rollers( short pieces of drill collar) & a wedge to lift or drive down, creating a crushing force, like blind rams in a BOP.The wedge that drives the roller can be small enough Diameter to pull up & past the roller, once the roller has made its dent in the casing. Its easier to pull than piledrive. The roller needs to roll up the casing as it presses deeper into it. If pressure is too great for the casing to take if its closed, then choke it down. Cant slam it shut, because of the hydraulic hammer of that column of fluid. If I knew the depth of the surface casing & the number/size of the strings of casing & the formation hardness the surface casing is landed in it would help. I realize this isnt a completely fleshed out idea. May need to lock the pipes down by running something thru them & under the flange on the BOP, so they dont pull out instead of crimping the casing. If Surface is set shallow & in soft stuff, then maybe this could be pounded down below the surface casing, Thank you for your consideration. I hope this helps. Materials Required (50 words or less) Large casing or steel culvert pipes, some drill collars to set the pipes in the sea bed, drill collars can be used to build the wedges & rollers. Equipment Required (50 words or less) Large steel pipe & drill collars, IDK if wireline equipment would be needed to get things oriented correctly or if ROV's can do it.Need a rig or a barge w/ a derrick. Wont need to pump or rotate so a barge should be fine as long as it can pull hard enough. Expertise Required – including description and numbers (100 words or less) Need engineers to determine crush force required & smallest choke the casing can take w/o rupture due to current formation pressure. No, they dont want it too long. Now, I wait for them to look at it & evaluate it. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by JohnBoy on 06/11/10 at 09:43:45 I for one would like to see that Blow Out Preventer brought to the surface. My guess is that in an attempt to cut corners and save money, it is nothing more than an empty shell. I bet that BP has been flying without a net from the beginning, and I bet that they are not the only ones. As long as we are forced to take BP's word for it, we will never know. Once it is encased in concrete and steel any mistakes in judgment are buried. What is the cost of seeing your livelihood, your property value, and your family's future destroyed, by something that you believe but are powerless to prove? |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Boule’tard on 06/11/10 at 09:56:21 That makes sense Justin, I believe it. Sometime around 1989-1990 I worked an internship at Mobil, easily the best summer job I ever had, helping the geologists map out formations likely to contain large pockets of oil and gas. I guess the geologist can tell you about the silt and other erosion-prone material, but then it is on the Mech.Es and well control experts to stem the flow. I am sure there is a "situation room" full of the best and brightest well experts on the case, just as there is a team of the most PR-savvy weasels trying to minimize the damage to BP's reputation. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by mick on 06/11/10 at 10:10:51 BP are not trying to stop it, they are trying to capture it. The old greed factor has reared it's ugly head. The execs sit and watch that oil going to waste,at the same time tears are rolling down there fat cheeks. They should all be shot,they are the ones who made the desisions to cut down on costs while building the dam thing,the safety devices on the wells in the north sea where not on this well, maybe because the north sea is notably alott rougher than the gulf. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Serowbot on 06/11/10 at 10:39:06 This whole, "Give us your ideas" campaign, smells more like a PR move to trivialize the problem, than a serious endeavor to get a solution... They have the money, brains, experience, and equipment... And they seem to know,... that there are some bells that can't be un-rung... I don't know how to stop it,... but I know how to stop it from happening again.... :-?... |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 10:47:34 This whole, "Give us your ideas" campaign, smells more like a PR move to trivialize the problem, than a serious endeavor to get a solution... They have the money, brains, experience, and equipment... Granted, & Ive considered that & that has played into my reluctance to spend the $$ & time on the call. I also know that Ive solved problems on location when there were engineers who couldnt, so, Ill take my shot. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Serowbot on 06/11/10 at 11:16:27 I wasn't meaning to be critical of you JOG... Hell,.. If your idea is excepted and works,... they should make you the head of BP... (on second thought,... that job would really suck..)... ...they should give you a billion dollars.... ;)... |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 11:31:01 You didnt bug me, Rowboat. We Coo, dude.. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by mick on 06/11/10 at 12:26:09 just drop a fat boy (bomb) down the hole. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Phelonius on 06/11/10 at 12:57:48 I have always claimed that the judicious use of explosives can improve most problem situations. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by earlytimz on 06/11/10 at 13:25:55 I sure thought the Hollywood elite would've come up with something by now. I got a text earlier... It said we should put a big wedding ring over the pipe. That normally puts an end to the put'n out! ;D |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/11/10 at 13:30:30 It said we should put a big wedding ring over the pipe. That normally puts an end to the put'n out! . Pure genius! Now, in hindsight, they coulda pumped some wedding cake down it. That generally at least slows that stuff down. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by mick on 06/11/10 at 14:03:45 3A3E2D33262B3632255F0 wrote:
Kevin Cosner came up with a great idea,he allready has the machines on hand,that turns oil into water,did any one see that ? it was on the news recently, he has 80 of these machines he showed them working. they were a bit slow I think one machine moves about 20 gallons a minute,but anything would help,he offered them at no charge,from a company he owns,or has alott of shares in. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by earlytimz on 06/11/10 at 14:14:36 Oil into water??? Oh please elaborate!!! |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by mick on 06/11/10 at 14:37:07 494D5E4055584541562C0 wrote:
I just saw a big stainless steel thing taking in oil and spewing out water , there were many people around. you will have to google him. Or it could be every ones prayers have been answered and the late great JC as arived back to help,wasn't that the dude who turned water into wine,just a little stretch......................is all it will take. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by verslagen1 on 06/11/10 at 14:51:05 yep, KC to the rescue, BP just ordered 32 machines. http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/arts-and-entertainment/Costners-Dream-Machine-Separates-Oil-from-Water-96151764.html |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by earlytimz on 06/11/10 at 15:13:26 OOOOOkay... It separates oil from water. That makes A LOT more sense. I was thinking water into wine myself! The thought of turning oil into water is not that far fetched... Oil is made of hydrocarbons (hydrogen+carbon), water is obviously hydrogen & oxygen. You'd need to separate the H from the C & add O. Burning the oil releases the hydrogen but also the carbon with endings like dioxide & monoxide & who knows what else... I'm sticking with the wedding band idea... |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by ALfromN.H. on 06/11/10 at 19:08:27 Can we stuff Rosie O'Donell in the pipe? I don't care if it stops the leak. We could try Justins idea if we get Rosie in there and it still leaks. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by verslagen1 on 06/11/10 at 19:11:50 if you stuck that down there, they'd declare it a toxic waste dump and close the whole gulf for a hundred years. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by earlytimz on 06/11/10 at 19:17:32 She won't fit |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by Starlifter on 06/11/10 at 19:58:15 Yeah, forgetaboutit....the gulf is stone cold dead for all of our lifetimes... |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by mick on 06/12/10 at 00:05:45 5F525C5C083E0 wrote:
you can stick my 300 pound step mother in there while your at it,please. |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by mick on 06/12/10 at 00:13:53 3632213F2A273A3E29530 wrote:
what is wrong with you ? At least KC has something that works. And you want to send down a wedding ring, BRILLIANT ! |
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Title: Re: How Id shut the oil down Post by earlytimz on 06/12/10 at 08:02:34 It's called sarcasm, give it a try! Oh and get off my a$$, you're starting to worry me. Too bad KC or JC or someone can't come up with a magic box to turn oil into wine!! |
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