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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Master Cylinder Sight Window /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1284734506 Message started by piwakyt on 09/17/10 at 07:41:46 |
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Title: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by piwakyt on 09/17/10 at 07:41:46 This is my first post, please forgive any ...newness? haha. I have an 86 Savage, and my master cylinder sight window is crystalized and leaking badly. I have tried a cursory fix by applying clear silicone to outside but either I didn't cure long enough or brake fluid was just too much for it. Has anyone encountered this situation? and if so, your fix? I noticed the parts breakdown shows a 'protector' that looks like it might be the clip on the inside. Can it be replaced? Replacing the master cylinder is not an option at this time. Thank you in advance for any and all replies! |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/10 at 07:51:11 Brake fluid is notoriously destructive to things. It eats paint & I cant imagine silicone ever holding it. Im gonna say youll need a new reservoir to solve this IF you want to keep that window. If youre willing to lose the window, which I dont suggest, then Id say empty the res, clean the res around the window, silicone an Oring on it & clamp a piece of metal to that Oring. Man, talk about look like crap,, but it should Work. Id only comsider that answer IF I was suck in the middleof nowhere & had to do that to get home. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by babyhog on 09/17/10 at 08:15:32 Here's a place that makes a repair kit for $12.50: http://www.newrivercyclesalvage.com/sight%20glass.html I'd try Gorilla Glue and let it cure a long time... :-/ I may have an old master cylinder if you get to the point of replacement... |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Lupo on 09/18/10 at 17:36:29 That's a nice find Babyhog. I rebuilt mine and was wondering if I'd wasted my time because the sight window looks questionable. I'm going to order one now before I need it. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by piwakyt on 09/18/10 at 19:00:26 Thanks Babyhog... I emailed about the kit and will probably be ordering one soon..can only stand not riding for so long. Here in S Texas we can ride pretty much year round, and I'm glad of it! Once again, thanks everyone for the replies! |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Oldfeller on 09/19/10 at 01:46:16 A simple cheapskate thought .... If your glass is foggy but is still holding the fluid in, simply take the top off once a year to check the fluid level and don't fix the glass ever. Spending time and money to fix what isn't necessary -- isn't necessary. ============= If it does leak, take the master cylinder off the bike, clean it well with brake parts cleaner and pour the inside of sight glass recess slam full of two part slow setting clear epoxy all the way out to the aluminum and let it set up well for 48 hours. Once again, you now have a fogged sight glass that doesn't leak (at a total cost maybe $2 in epoxy) so now you take the top off once year to check it. ;) Big deal. ============= The sight glass function is useless anyway -- proper set up after adding new pads is to fill the sucker up to the top so you can get maximum pad "out" wear movement backed up with reserve fluid in the reservoir. This fill point is up over the sight glass anyway. And to check it, you generally take the top off anyway -- who is gonna trust the sight glass since it sees a completely different picture according to how the bike is on the side stand OR how the handle bars are tilted. ;D Stop the leak, fill it up, and take the lid off once a year to check the fluid level. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Routy on 09/19/10 at 04:53:52 Site glass ??? Must be a Savage thing. Or maybe I'll go look again :o |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by piwakyt on 09/19/10 at 08:54:28 Yes, I take the top off to check level anyway, but still try to put things back into their 'original' condition if possible. I also thought maybe an aluminum plug might do the trick too. As long as it doesn't leak, I'm a happy thumper... Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by ero4444 on 09/19/10 at 09:25:38 It's incredible and great that a repair kit exists at all. I would miss the siteglass because it's convenient - and opening the reservoir lets in humidity. Fill to top of the glass? oops I learned something again dammit. That top line mark is a little obtuse. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/10 at 09:38:54 and opening the reservoir lets in humidity. Its vented anyway... |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by verslagen1 on 09/19/10 at 10:09:21 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
Hmmm... that does sound like a plan. Only I'd use a copper washer for the seal on the inside. The head of the bolt also on the inside. Then washer on the outside is just to protect the surface and support. Maybe a chrome acorn nut if you intend to leave it. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/10 at 10:13:10 much nicer approach.. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by bill67 on 09/19/10 at 10:16:35 You don't have to open it they don't use in fluid. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Oldfeller on 09/19/10 at 10:51:55 Let us form us a wild-assed guess -- Klotz must make them some super special red tinted zero wear -- expanding -- brake fluid .... ;D ;D ;D (all brake systems transfer fluid from master to slave cylinder as the pads move in due to simple wear) Remember, the volume displaced by the forward moving puck down at the bottom is almost equal to half of the entire reservoir up top, so expect to see some fluid level change up top as your pads wear out. This is also why you cheat and fill the durn thing up all the way when putting in new pads, that way you don't have to mess with it quite as much. ====================== Justin is correct, your master cylinder reservoir is always vented to the humid outside air and it does get moisture contaminated (cloudy looking) over about 2-3 years and should be changed periodically in any case. Since this is similar to the wear out life of a pair of front brake pads it tends to remind you to do the pump out / change out of the fluid at the same time you are installing a new set of pads. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by verslagen1 on 09/19/10 at 10:52:59 Also, if your brake fluid is discolored at all... I'd replace it. It's pretty simple as long as you still have fluid in it. Get a jar and a rubber hose, put the rubber hose on the bleeder. open the bleeder and let the brake fluid drain into the jar. take off the master cylinder cap and just before it starts sucking air, fill it back up. Takes about a half a pint. close the bleeder and check for sponginess, bleed if it is. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/10 at 21:06:29 Also, if your brake fluid is discolored at all... I'd replace it. It is & youre welcome to. I accept your offer. Shall I PM you my address? |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Lupo on 09/19/10 at 22:31:47 2D3E2928373A3C3E356A5B0 wrote:
Hmmm... that does sound like a plan. Only I'd use a copper washer for the seal on the inside. The head of the bolt also on the inside. Then washer on the outside is just to protect the surface and support. Maybe a chrome acorn nut if you intend to leave it.[/quote] Copper is a contaminant to brake fluid and besides,it's only 12 bucks. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Serowbot on 09/20/10 at 00:22:39 a bike mechanic friend of mine, uses car engine freeze plugs to replace leaky windows.... ...you can't see it after that, but it will never leak again... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by RidgeRunner13 on 09/20/10 at 06:29:13 5C415B545140370 wrote:
Hmmm... that does sound like a plan. Only I'd use a copper washer for the seal on the inside. The head of the bolt also on the inside. Then washer on the outside is just to protect the surface and support. Maybe a chrome acorn nut if you intend to leave it.[/quote] Copper is a contaminant to brake fluid and besides,it's only 12 bucks. [/quote] Funny, copper sealing washers are used on all brake line 'banjo' fittings, m/c & automotive. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Lupo on 09/20/10 at 07:16:27 Don't shoot the messenger. I personally have Russell aluminum washers but only because that's what I bought. As I've read the copper leaches from the brake lines and changes the flash point of the fluid. Here's from an article: What’s the Big Deal about Copper Anyway? Recent government research** conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration confirmed that copper can form deposits around the sealing surfaces of ABS valves, which means your car may take longer to stop in a panic situation. Other research finds that copper levels in the brake fluid are the best indicators that the fluid's corrosion inhibitors are losing their punch and major corrosion is just around the corner. MAP puts the red-flag level of copper at 200 parts per million. Anything above, flush. Fortunately, with FASCAR technology you can now test for signs of internal corrosion in Anti-Lock Braking Systems. Testing for water answers no questions whatsoever about the level of corrosion present in any brake system; it simply tells you the boiling point of brake fluid and remember there are no standards anywhere for changing brake fluid based on boiling point anyway. Corrosion on the other hand can result in very expensive ABS replacement costs; quite possibly as expensive than replacing a vehicles engine |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/10 at 08:10:31 thanks for the info on copper, must be quite a contaminate, as only the edge of the seals touch the fluid. Another reason to change the fluid every couple of years. ;D |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Boofer on 09/20/10 at 20:05:16 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
JOG is right. If you think about it, most stuff is either a solid or something that oxidizes, etches, or otherwise screws up solids OR reacts with liquids to ruin them or change them to something you can't live with. Even metal is porous on the microscopic level. And most of these guys know that metal has a grain similar to wood. Versy, I need to change my fluid, but I'm too busy/lazy. WHY do you keep reminding me of that? STM I went over atoms and junk with my daughter the other night. It reminds me that everything is moving and changing whether we see it or not. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Oldfeller on 09/20/10 at 20:27:43 Yep, clear epoxy is good stuff for sealing off a brake fluid compartment if it is allowed to set thoroughly before being introduced to the alcohol and glycol that make up the brake fluid. Key important part to fixing a leaking window is to take the master cylinder off the bike, use brake parts cleaner (acetone) to spray out the window recess really well, then pour the window recess solid with slow setting two part epoxy plumb full up to the level of the side. If the sight glass were cracked up all that badly, I'd bust it out totally until I had a simple aluminum sided hole -- then I'd rough up the hole some with sandpaper and spray it all out with brake parts cleaner and let it dry good. Then I'd get some clear plastic packing tape and smoothly put a piece over the outside of the window hole such that it had no wrinkles, etc. Then from the inside I'd pour it slam full of slow set clear epoxy and lay it on its side so the pool was flush with the inner surface or maybe even went out a little bit on the inner surface. When it was 48 hours hard, it would be a nice new plastic window glass that was thoroughly bonded to the aluminum shell. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by abotech on 09/20/10 at 21:50:47 Hi friends,I'm going to jump in on this one.Bmw recommends you change the brake fluid once a year. It will make a difference how your bike stops. When the fluid starts turning dark , you have water in it. The master cylinder and caliper will start corroding inside and eventually it will gum up. I have replaced several sight glasses on atv's and various street bikes. I use clear silicone glue to hold the new glass in. The above post with a link for replacement lens is a great find. I'll be bookmarking that site. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by piwakyt on 09/21/10 at 13:51:41 Just spoke with Don at New River Motorcycle Salvage and ordered my repair kit ($15.00 total cost). I gave him the info I had and basic measurements of window and outer ring. He let me know he also has records on several models, etc. He was very helpful and said he would have it in the mail the next day! Once I get the kit I will post some pics of the before and after installation for anyone who is also considering this fix. My bike was honestly a beater when I bought it 2 years ago and am just now getting serious about fixing some of the problems with it. So far I have repaired a broken header/exhaust clamp bolt, this one had me worried since I had to drill out the old piece...went much better than I expected..when I got the bike, it had aftermarket pegs on and the left peg was loose and basically useless, (had to drive it approx 30 miles home and a few trips w/no left peg) it took awhile to get the old left one off, but replaced both pegs, and they are very functional.. replaced grips..The entire header was covered in rust, cleaned..replaced left rear turn signal assy..both mirrors.. new tires.. new brakes..the left cover had already been adapted to allow access to spark plug, but of course I didn't realize that until I had taken tank off! complete tune-up done..and numerous rusted bolts, screws, etc. My next project is to recover my seat and back pillion, modified for my taste and size (bike as is is much too short for my height)..and new muffler, still has original and is rusted out in a few spots.. Anyway...will keep those interested posted on master cyl fix as soon as I receive it. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by babyhog on 09/22/10 at 05:07:10 637A6472786A67130 wrote:
Very good. Keep us posted! I will be curious about the fix. I just Googled and found that, so I hope it works out for you. We love pictures around here, so post some of your bike if you can.... Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by ThumperKat on 09/28/10 at 06:56:11 OK...well, my master cyl fix started promising, i ordered my kit on tues and Don had it to me on friday. the glass was just a lil bit too small and was enuff that i couldnt get a good seal. when you're dealing with approx's must be expected at times. Contacted Don, and he is going to recut and send a new one out. i took pic's of the process, but want to wait until i get new glass and installed before i post. on that thought...in the interim, my need to be back on the road prompted me to do an interim fix using a dime...a 1986 Liberty. trimmed down the edge and used Permatex Ultra-Grey rtv to seal... still waiting for it to cure...and i must say, i really like the look. will post pic's of this fix once i know it works (sealed). whew... |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by drums1 on 09/28/10 at 10:00:16 Sight glass? Either I'm blind or I just never noticed it. In any case, I'll be replacing the front pads and rear shoes this winter, so I will also be flushing and replacing the fluid at that time. I would use Slavy's method of gravity bleeding and refilling as you go. Unless you have access to a power bleeder or flush machine with proper adapters. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by RidgeRunner13 on 09/28/10 at 10:53:57 All you need is a piece of hose, preferably clear, 3/16" by about 5' long. Put it over the end of the bleeder screw, slightly open the screw & hold the other end in the fluid in the m/c. Slowly stroke the lever while keeping the hose in the fluid & you can see the air bubbles work there way out. This is the fastest, easiest way I've found to bleed the front brake when starting with a 'dry' system. I've always maintained my own bikes, 45 years now & none have ever been to the dealer. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/10 at 11:49:17 You can pump all you want, but a 'dry' system won't start. Takes patience and a beer to concentrate on. ocassionally look over at the resevoir to make sure it isn't empty or you'll need the 5' hose. ;D |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Digger on 10/19/10 at 21:50:53 7C6365627F7849794971636F24160 wrote:
6C4F4745464F4F4651230 wrote:
:o Now, I'm not looking at a front brake master cylinder, and I'm too lazy to go out to the garage and pull the cover off of the one on my Savage (see signature), but, if IIRC, there is no direct way that ambient air can contact the brake fluid in that master cylinder reservoir. Here is how I remember it: There is a rubber bellows that sits directly below the front brake master cylinder reservoir's cap. The air cavity ABOVE said bellows IS vented and has contact with ambient air. The air cavity BELOW said bellows (the air cavity in contact with the brake fluid sitting in said reservoir) does NOT have contact with ambient air. The bottom of said bellows makes a tight seal with the top sealing surface (lip) of said reservoir. Or, am I all wet? |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/10 at 22:08:40 U know, you could be right. Id have to go pop the top off to be certain, However, I dont remember the bellows being sufficient to pull into the master cylinder to accomodate for the fluid being pumped down as the pads wear. Orrr,, I wasnt paying attention, who has the real answer? |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Oldfeller on 10/20/10 at 00:06:53 There is a bellows looking thingie in the lid, but I've never seen mine extend any (or move any) so I just considered it "the lid seal" and went on with life. If it does indeed make the master cylinder reservoir air proof, then why the heck does the fluid degrade so much in a few year's time? Dunno .... got me :-? |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/10 at 17:24:22 44676F6D6E67676E790B0 wrote:
Thats one O them Sherlock Holmes questions. Ill be messin with it soon. Ill try to find time to have a look. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by bill67 on 10/20/10 at 18:26:13 11323A383B32323B2C5E0 wrote:
The brake fluid doesn't degrade I've seen it last 25 years and still be good. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Oldfeller on 10/20/10 at 22:41:31 I think I'm gonna start a thread called "Bill-isms" that will be reserved for all the truly whacky stuff people post on the list that jest ain't so. Bill, we are gonna name it after you in honor of "a real mechanic can tell if the valves need adjusting just by listening to them" which is a Bill-ism classic to be sure. But "The brake fluid doesn't degrade I've seen it last 25 years and still be good." certainly meets the Bill-ism grade too. |
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Title: Re: Master Cylinder Sight Window Post by Lupo on 10/20/10 at 22:54:27 Kind of reminds me of what I'll call "Dadisms". My Dad always got cool cars. When I was 16 I drove his '67 Camero around or he had the Lincoln Continental with the suicide doors. Now, when he sold or traded in his cars, everything was original. The oil, spark plugs and even the air in the tires ;D |
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