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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Unions striking in France /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1287077739 Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/14/10 at 10:35:39 |
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Title: Unions striking in France Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/14/10 at 10:35:39 Can you believe that the French unions are staging nationwide strikes over the gov't's efforts to raise their national retirement age from age 60 to 62? Even 62 is ridiculous for almost all people except for those who are truly disabled. Eventually Europeans are going to have to come to grips with reality - being that the trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money to use to fund it. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by dasch on 10/14/10 at 10:56:58 well... it's not Europe-wide. Our retirement age is 70 for men, 65 for women, I think. Or 65/60. Definitelly not 60. Greeks also retire sooner, just a few other countries too. Germans work from the grave! |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/14/10 at 11:06:26 Dasch - What country is "our"? I would expect the German work ethic to be among the highest <g>. Of course, Greece is flat broke. Isn't Austria among the early retirement countries? I know that employers have to pay "double" wages in either October or November there, so people have Christmas money, and again in either May or June, so they have summer vacation money. What a joke - same annual wage, the law just assumes people can't budget for themselves, so they pretend that there are 14 months in a year, and divide annual pay by 14. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Serowbot on 10/14/10 at 11:26:51 As much as some people seem to dread it,... eventually, with increasing automation in factories, more plug-in modular repairs and disposable items that are cheaper to replace than repair, and big agro farming,... the need for workforce will have to decrease... other than bullsh!t paper pushing, and bureaucratic runarounds... life is getting easier.... Tough noogies... ;D... This is why we all have too much cr@p,... The only way to keep everyone slaving away to the grave is increased consumerism... So, keep working away, so you can keep buying the massive amounts of cr@p you don't need, so you can keep the wheels turning... Otherwise, you'll have to define yourself by something more than what you do, and actually pay attention to life and other people, instead of stuff... Okay,.. got my helmet on,.. ready to be beat up... Lemme' have it...:-?... |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/14/10 at 12:00:47 Serowbot - You see things a bit too "smallish". With all of the automation, computerization, etc. now, we should be growing at an ever increasing pace; not slowing down. But to do so, and keep the economy running and growing, people have to change. Ditch diggers are an obsolete bunch, as are many of the unskilled and semi-skilled jobs of just 40 years ago. My partner and I were just talking about this a few moments ago - I can't imagine how the tour guides at the Eifel Tower are stressed to the point that they need to retire at 60. Yet they think it is their birth right to work as little as possible for as few years as possible. You see, the difference is that some people merely work to live - and they are never happy. They get no real satisfaction, or pride of accomplishment out of their day - they just work to buy their next meal and pay the rent. Work has no real meaning for them. Then there are those who live to work - these are the people who produce, and love it. Look how old Warren Buffett is - mid 70s, and still going strong every day and as sharp as ever. To me, I just can't imagine not working for as long as I'm physically and mentally capable. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/14/10 at 12:38:14 What a shame Jerry ,you cant think of something better to than work. How about fishing,golf, Now here is a novel idea motorcycling,tour different country's, there are a multitude of things to do. My then wife and I rented a car in Paris ,we headed south without a map,we had more fun than a barrel of monky's. Jerry you have very little imagenation. Fly a single engine plane around world,with your wife.Cross the Atlantic on the QE11,talk about luxury, take some dancing lessons(secretly) and amaze you wife while on the QE11,you think your wife is loving now, you aint seen nothin yet. Take note from a man who has been married 6 times to 5 different women, not one of them remarried, Hey you had the best whats the point of looking ;) |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Serowbot on 10/14/10 at 12:57:38 Jerry, That's wonderful for you,.. but everyone ain't you... Some people do work hard everyday at jobs just for a paycheck... and these jobs need to be done... Sewers need to be unclogged, it's not rewarding or fulfilling, it just has to be done... do you imagine someone has a calling to do that?... People push wheelbarrows of dirt, gravel, and bricks,... change quadriplegics diapers,... put unwanted animals to sleep,... shovel hot furnaces,.. and dig in mines... ... and it all needs to be done... and most do it for a paycheck... but, maybe now,.. with many of the needs of life being more automated,... those who have to do the hard, dirty, but necessary parts of civilized existence, can be rewarded with some more time for the finer things... If everyone becomes a lawyer, or educated professional, who will dump the trash?... The most important jobs in society are menial, and demanding, or just plain monotonous,... and not fairly rewarded... |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/14/10 at 13:21:31 Mick - We just see the world thru different glasses, my Friend. Nothing wrong with that, either I hate ships - was one one once, and never again. I've flown an airplane everywhere I want to go, and a couple of places I didn't want to go. See, the difference is, I get my kicks, and a real rush, out of business. Right now, at age 63.5, we're doing the initial research and other due diligence on a new business, the idea for which has been rolling around in my head for several years. The challenge of this is far more interesting to me than ballroom dancing could ever be. And for Serowbot - You are right, menial tasks will always be with us. I remember a speech that Gen. Colin Powell gave to a high school class in one of the impoverished areas of New York City. Of course, the kids were mainly blacks and Hispanics. He told of a time when he was in high school and he got a job as a floor sweeper in a clothing manufacturing shop in New York. He vowed to himself to be the best floor sweeper that the company had ever had; and after a few weeks on the job, that's just what the owner of the shop told him he was - the best. It's just that attitude and ethic that took him to the top of the military and political world. Obama may be the first black president, but I firmly believe that Powell could have been had he chosen to run after he got out of the Army. No matter what one's work is, every person should be proud of what he does, and strive to be the best at it that he can be. That's true satisfaction to me. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/14/10 at 16:22:00 7C737F757E7378747364717364160 wrote:
Other peoples money was MY money a few years ago, I paid in to social security,it was working just fine until other government agency's took it and didn't pay it back,As I recall it was the Crawford texas village idiot.Or was it the biggest clown in American History ,er lets see ,bed time for bonzo,Oh yes a hollywood classic, Do you know he was offered the role as Nick in Casablanca,but he turned it down thank goodness. Even as the president of the screen actor's guild,he couldn't hack it,I guess he thought it was a short leap from one president's job to another. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/10 at 18:46:59 Central Banking schemes always create inflation & currency devaluation. People have to Make More $$$ in order to get by. The more services that are provided, the higher the taxes. As the currency devalues, taxes have to rise. Eventualy, economies succumb. Have a look at Greece. People are only talking about how the people are REacting. Im not hearing much about what policies got them in the shape they are in. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Charon on 10/14/10 at 19:28:35 JOG, you keep pointing out how bad central banking schemes are. But you have yet to point out a PROVEN TO WORK different system. As far as I know, every system without a central banking system has failed, too. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Stimpy - FSO on 10/14/10 at 19:47:08 Yup, this french strike is nuts, whole country is paralized, shady motives behind it all. Yes, germans work from the grave... by choice! To understand the german labor mentality you must first realize that its like comparing apples and sauerkraut, its just a different planet over here. Long story short germans have embedded in their dna a little word called "muss" (must/duty) which basically makes the individual police themselves in all aspects of life. Its simple lifelong brainwashing and programming that makes them wilingly accept the notion that the goal of their existence is to serve the fatherland with labour, taxes and specific behavioral code and expectations... otherwise you are an "Aso" (asocial parasite) and looked socialy down upon. But in general, are germans happy?! No. Quite the opposite actually; even though they are better off than most of the world, germans, simply put, are complex, torn, productive beings that fill their lives with trivial junk, activities and traditions to face away from the fact that the system never gave them a chance to be, but then again, none of this matter because everything is fine because it must. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/10 at 20:15:40 547F76657879170 wrote:
A Central banking system, owned by a wealthy elite, robs the people. Go To The CONSTITUTION for the guide to real money. Why is it that people are willing to continue down a bad road & just declare the road theyve never seen tried is worse? |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Lupo on 10/14/10 at 21:01:19 O.K my turn. I am retired and have been for 4 years now I'm 59 years old. I've heard this argument and think it's more a matter of envy then wanting to be a more productive citizen. I don't receive any Social Security and won't in the future. I worked for a municipal water department and we have our own private retirement plan that we contributed to and the investors of our plan invested in solid company's. My social security contributions started when I was 15 years old and continued until the age of 24 when I went to the water dept. I can't draw on that because I make too much from retirement plus I'm short about 6 months of credits. With the water dept. I worked 31 years and bought back 3 years of time I was in the Army so I ended with 34 years credit in the retirement plan. When I retired I got 79% of my base pay plus because the plan has been so successful I've gotten a 3% raise each year now. Even in these messed up times. It's a successful plan because it's completely privately run. Social Security is a failure because it's run by the government. Now, do I feel guilty? Hell no, I worked hard for 40 years! Do as the politicians say and work your fingers to the bone but as the song goes. What do you get? Boney fingers! Private retirement plans are better because your money is only used as retirement investment rather then bridges to nowhere. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mpescatori on 10/15/10 at 05:52:07 For once, I agree with Lupo. Seeing you guys yak away at the french strike is like me yakking away at L.A. gang wars... it's an exercise in dialectics, and nothing more. On the other hand, exactly how long should an employee work before he should / can retire ? How long should a guy work in th elocal Police force, or in the local FD, or in the Army ? I honestly cannot imagine a 65y.o. State Trooper, of Fireman, or even a 55y.o. marine still hollering "gung ho!" at the top of his lungs... The body quite simply cannot take the punishment doled out by some jobs any more than so much, by the age of 40 - 45 max - one is worn out. Literally. So, a librarian can easily work to 70, but an ambulance driver ? AND Why on earth should all systems relate to the US system, anyway ? :-? |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by bill67 on 10/15/10 at 06:06:44 How long should a carpenter have to work? |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/10 at 06:54:57 45584D5B4B495C475A41280 wrote:
When I was young & strong, I did hard labor & enjoyed it. As I got older, I got into less physically demanding jobs & now, Im simply not able to have a job, because I never know if Im gonna be in shape to even get out, so, no schedule for me, I just do what I can, when I can. That said, with regard to a soldier, let them be soldiers or oil filed workers when theyre young, people can get training to slip into jobs requiring expertiose over brawn & can transition into another type of work, & another,, no need to just doi ONE job ,, really, are peoples interests & desires so narrow? I wanted to be a mechanic, body man, painter, welder, machinist when I was a kid. I got to do quite a few of them.. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/15/10 at 07:05:12 I agree with JOG, and also see the wisdom of different retirement ages for different occupations. Sure, a fire fighter at age 70 is a stretch, although I actually do know one who is retiring this January at age 72. To look at him you'd think he is 55. But the idea of some gov't clerk, sitting at a desk, doing no physical activity beyond walking to the coffee pot, or a typical school teacher saying that they need to go out after 30 years service, at age 55 say, is silly. Soldiers, cops, firefighters aren't the typical "worker" in today's world. Take gov't and private sector employment, and what % sit behind desks or have other non-strenuous jobs? - my guess is probably about 70% at the least. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/15/10 at 17:17:47 In my case I have had so many different jobs I hosestly cant remember them all but most jobs were standing up jobs cook ,waiter,a bartender for 25 years 9 hours a day on my feet with not one chance to sit down,my legs started to give out so I became a chauffeur,then I had 10 hours a day on my a$$.During my time as a bartender I became a minister and I actally married a couple ,they stayed married until they died 2 months later a few days apart,they both had lung cancer both smoked like chimineys,and they both thought I was a real nice guy, boy how wrong were they ? How cool was that though to be a minister and an atheist. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/15/10 at 17:19:13 767D78782223140 wrote:
until he finishes the job. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/16/10 at 19:44:32 [quote author=78777B717A777C707760757760120 link=1287077739/15#17 date=1287151512]I agree with JOG, and also see the wisdom of different retirement ages for different occupations. Sure, a fire fighter at age 70 is a stretch, although I actually do know one who is retiring this January at age 72. To look at him you'd think he is 55. But the idea of some gov't clerk, sitting at a desk, doing no physical activity beyond walking to the coffee pot, or a typical school teacher saying that they need to go out after 30 years service, at age 55 say, is silly. Soldiers, cops, firefighters aren't the typical "worker" in today's world. Take gov't and private sector employment, and what % sit behind desks or have other non-strenuous jobs? - my guess is probably about 70% at the least.[/quote When I was a bartender at "Kelly's" restaurante and bar one of my waiters was an lawyer and another was the parking lot attendant,in fact he handled on of my devorces,no charge, As far as I know the waiter stayed there, last I heard of him he was the head waiter.Making real good money... |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Trippah on 10/16/10 at 20:04:44 Very few people can work dillligently after 60years of age as a teacher, the kids drain you within the first few hours of the day. (You laugh but my wife is one of the most energetic people I know and the two days a week she works really take it out of her) (her nickname at her school was the energizer bunny. ;D) 55 year old firemen..I doubt if one could carry a 200 pound man/woman out of a burning fire. Yet retiring at 55-60 is not usually a good thing. We need to have different jobs for these worn out peoople so they can be productive workers into their late 60's early 70's. I retireed at 64, now I drive a school bus part time..too boring a life with no tasks to perform. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Trippah on 10/16/10 at 20:14:26 And social security has so many other social programs added to it..SSI etc that it is no longer a backup retirement plan..just disingenious mislabelled social "curative" measures. Did you notice the medicaire theft ring led by armenian mobsters..why doesn't medicare send out an investigator every time a doctor changes his address to see if the place really exists? Well, because the investigative staffing was gutted by Ronnie et al to save money. ::) Americans are the most gulllible people in the world..every time we reduce oversight, it ends up with the banks' vaults being thrown open and the guards fired. Suddenly all the money is stolen. Duh..thankfully we never learn so we get to poney up through taxes for all the theft. Ahhh, what a ssytem. ;D |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/16/10 at 20:17:38 Trippah my 4th wife was a teacher and I can vouch for how hard they work she busted her cute little butt but she was exausted at the end of the day,they all deserve double the pay for less work.And when she came home she spent half the evening getting lesson plans ready for the morning, it isn't just 8am to 4pm,she even had me making things in my shop for the kids , they deserve all the help we can give them.And I'm sure your wife is like mine in half the time blaming the parents,most don't lift a hand to help the kids with reading at home,just plonk em down in front of the TV, Don't teachers have there own retirement plan ? |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 04:06:54 This past weekend we had our 45th high school reunion. I went to a very large high school - we had about 450 graduates in our class. About 100 showed up for the reunion. One guy sitting at our table was a really sad case. He was smart enough in school - not a genius, but not a dullard either. He graduated from college at Ohio State. He worked for 30 years at the state unemployment bureau, then retired at age 52, 11 years ago, after the required 30 years of service. He never married, and was an only child. He lives in the same house where he grew up. When my wife asked him if he has any interests or hobbies to fill his day, he replied, "No, not really". He basically sits around all day, watches TV, makes a trip to the grocery or to Walmart once in a while, and that's how he has spent the last 11 years, and will spend the rest of his life. What a waste. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Starlifter on 10/18/10 at 13:59:31 +1 |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/18/10 at 16:13:07 323D313B303D363A3D2A3F3D2A580 wrote:
next time he goes to Wal-Mart he should apply for a greeters job,it'l get him out of the house,and he will meet people, your friend has zero imagination,wouldn't make much difference if he was dead. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 17:42:05 Boring people are the bored people. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by mick on 10/18/10 at 22:44:54 332C2A2D30370636063E2C206B590 wrote:
you sure are not boring,very stuborn but not boring. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by tcreeley on 10/21/10 at 17:05:50 I'm 58, my hip arthritis makes it painful to walk. I can't retire, but I would not deny that chance to anyone. |
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Title: Re: Unions striking in France Post by Lupo on 10/22/10 at 00:13:54 Another stupid thread. I forget you dumb bastards think your intellectual. However, I am so here is what I have to say. I worked pipeline construction for 30 years+ and thankfully had no major injuries. I'm an egotistical macho guy but.....my body got worn and I was ready to pull the plug. I was fortunately able to do so and wish the same for all of you. When I was a young man some old broken down guys stressed retirement to me and I listened. I'm in good shape now, but,,,,that's the way I saw retirement! I could go for another career in my condition but I'd rather call this it! Now I will enjoy! |
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