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Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 06:40:26

Title: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 06:40:26

There's another Yahoo story about 11 states where the pension funds are running dry. Illinois tops the list, but some other curious ones are on there too - Kansas, Hawaii, Colorado, New Hampshire among them.

We've got to do something to stop these early retirements, or the country will go broke. In most states, any "sit behind a desk all day" state worker can retire after 30 years of service. Assuming that a person goes straight there from high school, that could be a retirement at age 48. That means a pension payment for at least 30 more years, as life expectancies have increased.

Even a college graduate to go to work for a state at age 22 and retire at age 52, then suck on the state fund for another 26 years.

As baby boomers are hitting these ages, every retirement system in the country cannot withstand this onslaught of retirees drawing benefits - just too many retirees being supported by too few remaining active workers.

Investment returns for the pension funds have plummeted with the historically low interest rates and poor stock market performance. Yes, what happens on Wall Street affects what happens on Main Street, regardless of what some ignorant politico may try to tell you. When you take down Wall Street, you take down Main Street.

You don't have to have a PhD in math to see the coming disaster.

Retirement for all sedentary jobs needs to be raised to at least 65, and probably 68. It's absolutely ridiculous for any healthy person to retire before 68, unless he can do so on his own dime.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/10 at 06:58:31

Why are people willing to believe a country can engage in fiscal policy that an individual can not?

IF a man lived the way our govt lives, he'd go to jail.

Decades of debt, let me see, how would that work out for me? If I had loans out & continually mounting debts, one day, the bank will call the loans & Ill be in Bankruptcy proceedings.

WHY , what mechanism is there, how is it possible that the country NOT go broke?

& what models have we to demonstrate it will?

Can we not remember the crashed economies? Soros made tremendous fortunes, shorting the currencies of countries the Economic Hitmen set up.

Were going down. Its been set up & its gonna happen. If you have $$$ in any of these retirement accounts & can get ANY of it in lump sum,, I think you should, n

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by photojoe on 10/20/10 at 07:32:08

No problem for government retirees here in New Jersey, the state will just continue to take the money from us in the form of: whopping property taxes ($6000.00 annual on a $275,000.00 home), payroll taxes, tolls, sales tax, and increases in every fee you can think of like an annual motorcycle registration of $65.

Piece of story: "A record number of teachers, police officers and other public employees are retiring this year as Gov. Chris Christie's plans to overhaul pension benefits have many workers fearful of their future security.
But the rush to retirement has added new stress to the state's financially strapped pension systems.
As of Sept. 1, at least 16,400 public employees have retired this year. Those retirements will cost the state an additional $638 million in pension benefits, according to an Asbury Park Press review of state pension data." source: http://www.app.com/article/20101012/NEWS/101011028/Record-retirements-stress-New-Jersey-state-pension-system

The most popular way to retire with a huge bonus is saving those sick days. Civil servant a few towns down from me just cashed in $250,000.00 in unused sick time. Check this out: http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2010/10/if_you_want_to_get_sick_read_t.html

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 08:22:49

Gov't employees have a largess that just won't continue. Look at the violence in France. And Britain just announced today that its state pension system has to raise the retirement age to 66.

The concept of being paid for unused sick time is silly beyond all belief. It's there if you are sick - it's not a bonus program. Yes, not calling in sick is nice, but frankly, in most gov't jobs, who cares if someone takes sick leave? Nothing really suffers anyhow.

Any person who has completed the 4th grade can do the math needed to see that we have to rein in these over inflated gov't benefits to gov't employees.

I attended a candidate's night debate in our county this past Monday evening. There is a tax levy on the ballott for one of the local school districts. The guy who spoke opposing the levy pointed out that a teacher with 20 years of service makes $83,000 per year in salary, gets a $14,000 contribution to the state teachers' retirement system, and averages another $14,000 per year in health insurance benefits. That's $111,000 total per year for a person who "works" 180 days a year - that's right, Ohio school years are 180 days in the classroom, less than 1/2 of the 365 days in a year. And that doesn't even count the bonus pay a teacher can get for coaching and other "extra" duties.

That's absurd, and we're now seeing the result. All of this was fine as long as the baby boomers were working and paying into systems that had far fewer of their parents' generation drawing the benefits. But now that the baby boomers are retiring, the far fewer people working just can't support a luxury retirement for this huge bulge in the population curve.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by bill67 on 10/20/10 at 08:36:18

When I was in school we had a music teacher who got paid $3000 a year this was in 1955 For 5 years straight that was his salary,He told the superintend he need more money so they gave him $3200 per year,Next year he moved on to bigger school and got $3600.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by buttgoat1 on 10/20/10 at 09:28:54

People don't have a gripe with teachers making a decent salary, even if they do get 3 months off every year. But the bloated bureacracy outside of the clasroom is just excess baggage . Pay needs to be linked to performance and failing yeachers need to be let go.

Funny how many gubmint functions can be outsourced for a lot less money.

Bureacracies can not function efficiently by design. No competition thus no incentive to be efficient. Once hired, they are rarely fired.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 11:53:26

Teachers' summer vacation isn't really 3 months around here, but rather about 9 to 10 weeks.

But then, there is Christmas break of about 10 days, and at least a week for spring break.

So, total time off is about 3 months. Then, almost never a weekend day, and usually out the door by 4 PM unless the teacher voluntarily coaches or does extra things, for which he/she gets extra pay.

How many $111K per year jobs have a schedule like that?

Some will say that papers have to be graded at night and lesson plans prepared at night. True if you bug out of school at 4 PM, but stay there till 6 PM, or later, like most $111K executives do, and there's little that has to be done after work.

I too have no problem with teachers making a decent income; my undergrad degree is in education. But I do think $111K is excessive for the work hours required, the vast amounts of time off, and the education needed. Heck, many teachers are married to teachers - how many couples have a combined income in excess of $220K, again with all of the time off and short work hours? Darn few.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Trippah on 10/20/10 at 19:48:31

Jerry, teachers around here (Mass) do not make 111,000. After 20 years they get all the way up to $60,000. Their pension is on the highest 3 years..so many study to get certified as a superintendent and do that for 3-4 years at $100,000. per year, thus enlarging their retirement. aAnd while many of you think it is outrageous to retire at 60-64 years old, most teaching jobs will drive you to drink long before that. So, you might say, change careers and work in the private sector. Welll, you can do that but the goevernment pension offset law will reduce you Social secuirty by $1. for every $2.00 you get from the gvt pension. ;D Oh, if you put 20 years into the military,they will reduce your social security as aa reward. ;D
While the outsourcing of many gvt programs initially save money, they seldom do for more than a couple of years. Only the distribution changes, the management make much more than their counterpart in gvt while the average worker makes less with fewer benefits.
ALL SICK days used should require a Dr. note and should not accumulate (but for obvious reasons, family sick should be regarded as the worker being sick..someone has to take care of little Bobbby. :'(

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Trippah on 10/20/10 at 19:55:58

Ware Ma pay schedule (2007-8)
Year 1 with bachelor's $35,641 with Masters $37,801.
Year 11 with BA $51,725; with masters $53,607.
Does your average plumber or electrician with 11 years experience makes such big bucks?? :o

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/10 at 20:11:16

Heck, I worked with a couple of painters at Sewell Ford body shop in Odessa back in the late 70's who made over 40,000. I saw bodymen make enough $$$ to have a nice bass boat, raise a couple of kids & live in a nice home. PLumbers & electricians get Paid,, doubt me? Call someone for a quote..Ive recently passed on the plumber & spent about 4 hours changing a faucet out. Thankfully, I had help, it woulda cost me about 200 or so, if I had paid to have it done.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by mick on 10/20/10 at 20:54:59

747B777D767B707C7B6C797B6C1E0 wrote:

where on earth do you get those numbers ? my Wife was a teacher in a poor neigborhood, San Bernardino,she made $38,000 a year, we were thinking of moving to New Orleans but the pay there was only $28,000 per yearAt the school in San Bernardino every kid in her class
wore the same clothes every day,monday through friday, I used to go to Cosco and by huge boxes of peanut butter cookies, My wife could hand em out to the kids who kept falling asleep for the lack of food,that was all of them. The kids loved her and insisted on giving he hugs as they filed out, she would get home and run the hot water heater out of hot water while taking a half hour shower. She deserved twice what she was paid.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/10 at 20:57:48

http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary.html

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Lupo on 10/20/10 at 22:31:45

It's very entertaining how people b!itch about how much this person makes or when they retire. Here in the United States we have a wonderful thing called freedom. What this means is you can apply for any job your qualified to perform and the employer is free to chose who they want. Different jobs have different benefits and pay, but you have a choice. If you feel working until your 112 years old is right, you can under federal law. On the other hand, if you feel retirement really can be the golden years and should be enjoyed, you can make the choice according to how you prepared. As far as pay, anybody can turn down a raise or contribute to a cause of choice. Personally I've never seen that. Cast your stones, piss and moan but you chose the road your on.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/10 at 03:42:13

Cast your stones, piss and moan but you chose the road your on.

I'm not seein a lot of whining over the roads chosen by the people typing. Seems the real whining is about the roads others have chosen. Or am I missing it?

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Charon on 10/21/10 at 05:06:19

It isn't just government jobs. Many large corporations, and large unions, also promised pension benefits to their workers. It was easy to promise money in the future instead of paying workers in the present. I think the current phrase is "kicking the can down the road." Then, as pension funds built up, it was easy to "borrow" money from them and put promissory notes in the fund instead. But just like Social Security, when the promissory notes start coming due there is no money to pay them back.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/21/10 at 06:24:21

I don't think too many of us are complaining about what others earn.

The only point that was made is that there is a tax levy on the ballot in one of our local school districts, and the guy who spoke in opposition to it was simply pointing out that the school board in this district had chosen to agree to a contract with the teachers' union that was a very sweet deal for the teachers. In these hard times, he was simply arguing that if the district needs more money, perhaps the first thing that the school board should look at is its cost structure before saddling middle class home owners with increased real estate taxes. That's the sum and substance of the original post.

Teaching used to be a low paid job, as Mick pointed out, but it isn't anymore. As I said, my undergrad degree is in education, but I chose not to teach full time, mainly because of the low pay, and low esteem that teachers were held in back in the early 1970s. Teachers should be paid well, as they are the ones who form our youth, especially now in the day when kids predominantly live either in a single parent household, or in one where both parents have full time jobs - either circumstance reduces parenting time over what the average kid enjoyed back 50 years ago when the average mother wasn't employed outside of the home.

However, I love to teach. 20 years ago I was a part-time adjunct professor at both Air Force Institute of Technology and at The Ohio State University for a few years. Both of these appointments actually cost me money because of the time away from practice that both required. I did it because I enjoyed it; certainly not for the small checks I got.

Even now, I keep my FAA flight instructor certificate up to date, and do some part time flight and ground instructing, again because I enjoy it and hopefully, I can pass along some knowledge to younger pilots to keep them alive. They pay is a pittance, maybe enough, after all day on a Saturday, to take my wife out to dinner.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/10 at 08:42:05

I dont agree with the way teachers are protected from being fired for being crappy teachers.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/21/10 at 08:54:08

Tenure of public employees is a problem, but like most problems, it has two sides to the story.

Measuring a teacher's performance is very difficult to do objectively. You can't use student grades or test scores as much of a measure, because they depend in large part on things outside of the teacher's control. Take the same teacher working in a high income, suburuban district where the kids get good parenting, have educated parents who value education. Naturally, those kids will perform better than would the same teacher's students in a poor, underprivileged, urban ghetto school. So a lousy teacher may appear to be a good one in a certain school, while the reverse may hold true in another school.

Of course, like all public employees, we need to protect teachers' careers from politicians on school boards who might be inclined to want a faculty in their schools who agree with them; who may be their political allies. We sure don't want that to determine who stays, or who gets fired.

So, I, like most folks, am at a loss to come up with a sound way to measure a teacher's performance that is fair, and that works across the broad spectrum of different schools, in different places, serving kids of different backgrounds.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by mick on 10/21/10 at 09:03:56

todays news. London England.
the government is cutting a half million jobs,sharply reducing welfare,
And upped retirement age to 66.
Dont piddle around just do it, the country is in deep ka ka , you don't care about the next election ,just get her done. beside there is no election unless the people want one , and the house gives a vote of "No confidence".
Look and learn America.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by tcreeley on 10/21/10 at 09:56:15

I work as a teacher- when I retire- it will be when I can't go to work physically. I am 58 and there's no end in sight. The retirement is so low. I've worked since I was 14. Yet my state takes the pension money to balance the budget, then doesn't want to pay it back. If you say you'll do it - then do it. Nobody should be allowed to weasel out of a contract. Look around- I don't know anybody making big bucks and retired - another myth.

Title: Re: State pension funds running out of $$$
Post by tcreeley on 10/21/10 at 15:53:18

My son teaches in Maine. He went to a 4 yr private college on scholarship - cost him and us about 66,000/ 10 year pay back plan. He got his Masters in Teaching (12 month program) for 17,000 at a state university.
He started at 32,000. After paying rent, car,bills + school - I can't say he is rolling in money but he does have a job. He was very ill this summer but went back to work for the health insurance to pay for his medical tests. He is 29. Life is a daily struggle for him.
He will work until he can't and hopefully it will be into his mid and late 60's. He puts in 2-4 hours correcting a night and 4-6 hours on the weekend. He gets to work before 7 and leaves at 4:00.
He makes more than some, less than some. He pays into state retirement. So what does the state say 37 years from now - "screw it body - you don't deserve a pension"? He has no choice about with holding.
When I can put a CEO or hedgefund manager before a firing squad for getting bailout money from all of us, while getting million dollar bonuses or billion dollar salaries -- then you can take his measly pension for away for his lifetime of work because it costs too much.