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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Enough is Enough. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1290566226 Message started by Starlifter on 11/23/10 at 18:37:05 |
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Title: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/23/10 at 18:37:05 Pat-down leaves victim humiliated. Urine-soaked bladder cancer survivor Thomas D. "Tom" Sawyer claims an aggressive pat-down broke the seal on his urostomy bag, leaving him covered in urine. The 61-year-old says he repeatedly informed TSA officials of his medical condition during the safety check, but was ignored. Sawyer added he was left "humiliated, upset, and wet." The TSA said it would review his complaint and "take appropriate action if necessary." Cancer survivor forced to show prosthetic breast. Breast cancer survivor and flight attendant Cathy Bossi was allegedly forced to remove her prosthetic breast from her blouse to show a TSA agent. The security employee felt Bossi's prosthesis during a pat-down in North Carolina's Charlotte Douglas International Airport, and asked to be shown it in a private room. "It was just so horrific an experience, I couldn't believe someone had done that to me," said Bossi. *************************************************** I would like to remind all travelers this US holiday week (thanksgiving,) that as a former Air Marshal (circa 1970s,) that: The TSA does NOT have arrest or detention powers. Their personnel and organization must rely on civilian law enforcement in all local jurisdictions. The goons running the security checkpoints have zero authority. They are NOT law enforcement. The TSA can - and will - attempt to bullsh!t the public into believing they have some sort of authority. The TSA org draws power under civil statutes NOT criminal statutes. They can NOT arrest nor detain anyone! TSA employees are NOT certified state or federal law enforcement. That thug feeling up your teenager this week is NOT trained by a state or federal law enforcement academy. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/23/10 at 19:39:30 thanks for that usefull info,just one more reason my 2 Daughters have decided to drive to come visit me. I guess a little tiny bit of authority goes to there heads. A few years ago I was going to a huge swap meet in Portland,drove in thru the gate and some clown with a baton pointed to his right indicating where he wanted me to go, so I went to his left ,sometimes I cant help myself ,he did chase after me so I drove just fast enough for him not to catch me,I then pulled in to a perfect lot ,got out locked the door, all the while this guy is yelling at me, so I used the little german I know ,to this mexican ,he gave up .meanwhile every one had followed me in, it was such a nice day after that. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Dj12midnit on 11/23/10 at 20:57:56 The only reason I fly is for the chance to be groped. You should see the look on their faces when they find I got nothing on under my gym shorts. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by stinger on 11/23/10 at 21:57:15 As a United airline employee for over 20 years and had to pass security 100 times a day I can understand everyone's issue over the embarrassment of being x-raid and patted down. But there is a lot of crazy people out there and it only takes one to kill a whole lot of people. Good ol dad could put explosives on a small child that would not show up on a metal detector and if that child was overlooked then it could cost you and your families lives. 10 years ago I remember inviting my friends to the airport and gave them tours on gated planes with no one on board. No one even bothered me because I wore a United uniform. many times I left my ID at home so I borrowed another persons or just flashed them a old ID card that had expired. Times are different now and as weapons become more advanced so will security checks. If you fly, it's your choice of transportation. I'd say be glad of the extra security. Also, they just announced that the radiation from the x-ray machines will not cause cancer or powerful enough to cause any harm. The machines are programmed to shut down if it is so. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Serowbot on 11/23/10 at 22:10:26 If the terrorists want to shut down aviation in the U.S... .. they just need to convince one guy to stick C-4 up his butt,... success lies in getting caught, not blowing anything up... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/23/10 at 22:35:34 66617C7B727067150 wrote:
Sorry, Ill take the risk over the slave treatment. Besides, cant people see what this really is? Its a whole Win Win thing for the NWO.. They get to spend our $$$ to buy machines to X RAY US,, You DO understand that X Rays Are Harmful & CUMULATIVE,, everybody know that word? Its also social engineering, teaching us to be submissive & accept never ending bull nuts from the "AW THor I Teeez". There is no Law that allows this crap. Its wrong, to be feeling up babies, fer cryin out loud,, If these people did to an adult OR a child in a park what they do to them in the airports, theyd go to JAIL.. So, how is it right anywhere? Its NOT. The Fourth Amendment is clear & is clearly being violated. If we stopped everything bad that Could happen, wed just all hafta stay home. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mpescatori on 11/24/10 at 04:41:48 2C2B3631383A2D5F0 wrote:
Your words only prove that YOU are capable of such a thought. I live and work with arabs every single day and I can assure you they are NOT the extremists you people think. Quote:
Times are different now, a security violation that would once get you a telling off now wins you a cautionary detention as they wait for the DA or Air marshal to show up. Quote:
I'd love to take a steamer across the ocean but my employer will not grant me two weeks paid holiday for a three day conference. Quote:
Baloney, baloney, baloney. Those same "they" also swore in court smoking does not harm you and that it's OK to have nuclear explosions in New Mexico. In the 1800's your guests would come to your Thanksgiving dinner with a six-shooter and a pocketful of cigars, can I come to your house with a gun and cigars ? :-? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by buttgoat1 on 11/24/10 at 05:58:45 they are only following orders from our statist leaders. the problem is from above. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/24/10 at 08:46:33 Well, I could get on my soapbox over this, but I'll try to be somewhat restrained. The problem is simple - Washington is full of "political correctness". Anyone who knows anything about the effective counter terrorism measures needed also knows that profiling is the only way to accomplish even a modicum of effectiveness. Look at how the Israelis do it - they profile behavior. Sorry, but I agree with Juan Williams (recall him?) When I fly on an airliner, which I do at least monthly, I am VERY uncomfortable when Middle Eastern, or African Muslims are in the gate waiting area to board my flight. But since this country no longer has the guts to offend a very small minority of the population for the protection of the whole, profile them, and be effective, we'll all suffer through this insanity. Right after 9/11, Northwest airlines wanted to start a "domestic passport" program. It was to be aimed at the frequent flyer, the business person who rides on airplanes weekly or monthly, do a thorough background check on them if they enroll in the program, then issue them a photo ID card to allow them to submit to only rudimentary screening at the airport. Of course, this was shot down by the gov't at once - not fair, they said, to give preference to frequent flyers. So, we body scan 80 year old grandmothers, toddlers, etc. because we can't have the macho to look for the really bad guys and identify them by behavior and other traits. Sorry, Lifter, this may offend your liberal sensitivities, but it is the only way to be effective. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by LostArtist on 11/24/10 at 09:02:07 so being offensive is okay then? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/24/10 at 09:15:22 LA - Yes, it is. When a very small minority gets unreasonably offended by a very strong need to protect the whole, to me, that's just fine. That's our problem today - we're so dammed worried about offending somebody. I get offended every time I have to stop at a red light when there is no one coming thru the intersection. Since I'm offended at having to waste money for gas to sit there, needlessly, till the light changes, should they tear out all of the traffic lights needed to regulate traffic? I remember about 20 years ago there was a serial killer loose somewhere in the Los Angeles area who had killed several people in a very short time period. Eyewitnesses pegged him as a black man, relatively tall, well over 6 feet, and about 25 years old. So, LAPD started basically stopping every man in that neighborhood who met that description, and caught the killer within days. One of the major news networks interviewed several black folks in LA, and to a person, none thought it was unreasonable for the police to briefly delay a person who met the description, especially in light of the fact that all of the victims were also black, and all of the killings happened in a very small geographical area. That's the way people should feel and react. Let's quit this crap of being "offended" all of the time. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by LostArtist on 11/24/10 at 09:22:09 2D222E242F2229252235202235470 wrote:
so a small minority like, the random sampling and the minority of those complaining about the new procedures? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mpescatori on 11/24/10 at 09:30:43 LA, I agree wholeheartedly with Jerry. Like me, he evidently has an "Old World" mentality. If somebody or something steals your chickens from the coop, what do you do, take measures against chicken predators (i.e., weasels) and reinforce your fence, or leave things as they are and make life miserable to the other chickens? Maybe floodlights inside the chicken coop will help? Maybe the chickens will have a nervous breakdown and stop laying eggs? Would you believe that US tourists here in Europe were at one time advised to pin cadanian flags to their shirts and pretend they were not American? :-X So, in order to avoid having a burglar break into your house, take measures, but don't body search the guests you intend to entertain for dinner. :) |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by buttgoat1 on 11/24/10 at 09:38:17 my favorite part is how the same people that said "the sytem worked" when PASSENGERS overpowered a terrorist (which trained?? security allowed to board) on an airplane says now we need to have more of the same for all mass transit...... |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by LostArtist on 11/24/10 at 09:38:56 I"m just trying to figure out who it's okay to offend, is it okay to offend old white guys stealing my tax money for their social security? or single moms for welfare? or who exactly is off limits?? or can I just be an not a very nice person to everyone?? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Lupo on 11/24/10 at 09:45:30 Since the Libs and ACLU condemn profiling but can't seem to come up with a better solution to insure air travel safety it seems the other option is don't fly. Like so many aspects of living in a society we have rules. Flying is an option, even birds can walk if they choose. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/24/10 at 09:47:53 "Anyone who knows anything about the effective counter terrorism measures needed also knows that profiling is the only way to accomplish even a modicum of effectiveness." Timothy McVeigh: Registered Republican, white Christian. Next April will be the fifthteenth anniversary of the worst act of domestic terrorism in US history. On April 19, 1995 Timothy McVeigh blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people including a day care center filled with babies and small children, and injuring over 800. McVeigh, a former soldier, was connected with the radical right militias and soaked up many of his ideas from books, pamphlets and tracts that circulated in the militia movement (now called the "Teabagger" movement)?? Timothy McVeigh: American Citizen, Registered Republican, white Christian. Lets profile white Christians? American citizens? Registered Republicans? The terrorists have won. we are now afraid of our own shadows. We accept government intrusion into our very underwear as we are X-rayed, groped, and felt up by government goons while trying to board public transportation. We don't bat an eye at long lines and delays of our everyday affaires. What has this country come to? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/24/10 at 09:52:42 "What has this country come to?" So say the libs and ACLU. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/24/10 at 10:07:52 PS Was James Earl Ray an Arab Muslim? Was Eric Rudolph an Arab Muslim? Was the Assassin of JFK an Arab Muslim? What about the people who tried to car bomb Darrel Issa, were they Arab Muslims? Were the 700 Muslims who died in the WTC terrorists? Racial profiling (AKA racism) is never justified. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Lupo on 11/24/10 at 10:24:50 ...so we should ? Doing nothing is just that. Got an answer or just a complaint? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/24/10 at 11:00:16 Lifter - My Friend, there are obviously not only exceptions to any general rule of thumb, there are also examples which do not creat an analagy. You have cited both. Of course not all criminals are Muslims, nor are all Arab or Muslims criminals. We're talking about a very specific threat to a very specific thing - air transporation. And if you re-read my earlier post, you will note that I said we should profile behavior of passengers, along with other traits, particularly when suspect behavior coincides in a person who has other suspect traits, which may or may not include his appearance. You are far too hung up on racism. You read it into far too much. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by buttgoat1 on 11/24/10 at 11:07:45 easy way to fix this, just use the muslim opt out option and pat down yourself. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/24/10 at 16:27:30 Jerry, back in the 70s when I was an Air Marshal (we were called Sky Marshals back then,) the sky-jackers were all wanting to go to Cuba (political statement,) or wanting money and a parachute (extortion)...remember DB Cooper? We used a profile system back then before folks boarded the aircraft. It was a white male, between the ages of 18 and 35, traveling alone, buying a one-way ticket, and paying cash. They were asked to step behind a curtain and have a magnetometer run over them. Just thought I would add that to the discussion...oh, by the way, the people who raised the most hell about the profiling procedure were....drum roll....lawyers. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by photojoe on 11/24/10 at 17:57:19 I refuse to live in fear. I still cringe when I'm told to take my shoes off going through security. We look like a bunch of idiots walking through the line in socks or bare feet. Give me liberty or give me death, but don't humiliate me and tell me you're doing it to make me safer. We are giving up liberties in the name of safety. Hogwash. Rubbish. Our newspaper has a question we ask our readers every week. The question last week was if people are bothered by the new scanner or pat down when flying. 9 out of 10 said something to the effect of "it doesn't bother me if it makes us safer." Idiots. Kind of like the Cop asking if it's OK to search our cars; "If you have nothing to hide why not?" Well, that's hardly the point. We have this piece of paper, you know, the one that is called the Bill of Rights. The 4th Amendment guarantees us against unlawful search and seizure. They need probable cause to search us. I shot a job back sometime back, if I remember around 2004 dwn at the FAA Facility in Atlantic City. It was about these new bomb detectors that a passenger would walk through. You stop and a puff of air would hit you and be able to detect any traces of bomb making material. Where the hell are they? They had 4 different models when I was there. And what about bomb sniffing dogs? Brilliant animals in leu of the grabbing of the happy sack. I'm fed up. I like Archie Bunker's views on gun control and flying: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJI54GMM[/media] |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/24/10 at 18:31:08 Couldn't agree more. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/24/10 at 19:56:04 This Pavlog-dog crap must end. Americans have surrendered their rights to fear and false security and neither the Cons or the Dems have any intention of EVER returning them. Patriot Acts 1 and 2, the Military Commissions Act, and der Department of Homeland Security are not aimed at a few mad genius cave dwellers with laptops and cell phones. The entire legal might and weaponry of our government is aimed at us and all of our communications, purchasing patterns, and movements are monitored 24/7. Isn't it funny that the aircraft cargo holds, the far greater target is still not given the same scrutiny as our underpants? We should just act like nothing has happened, stop pretending every person getting on a plane next to you is a murderer, stop inspecting every piece of halloween candy thinking some junkie is going to give up his sh!t to spike a lollipop... stop teaching you kids to avoid strangers even though 99.9999999% of them are not bad, just in case they meet that one bad guy... This TSA crapolla is playing right into the tight assed paranoid persona that I really hope America refuses to become. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/24/10 at 22:12:16 2F37302B3035305F0 wrote:
& Heeeres your answer. They WANT to force the people to accept being humiliated. Its called conditioning. Wait till ya see what that crappity smackINGBITCH wants to do, Napolitano, Janet, the single sorriest woman alive. Now shes wanting MOOD Detectors, to Analyze people to see if the Harbor Malice.. Read: If someone is Pisstawf over the BS. Its a GAME people,, |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Lupo on 11/25/10 at 05:58:03 http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5338/tinfoilhato.jpg |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mpescatori on 11/25/10 at 06:09:40 Here's to you all who consider yourselves at risk because of the bad bearded guys: US CITIZED STOPPED AT ROME AIRPORT WITH KNIFE BLADE HIDDEN IN SHOE ISRAELI NATIONAL ARRESTED AT ITALIAN AIRPORT WITH 29 LIVE RIFLE ROUNDS IN HIS CABIN BAGGAGE A US citized was stopped yesterday night when Police found a 4" knife blade cleverly concealed inside a pair of hiking boots with a reinforced sole. Only a few hours later, a 54 y.o. Israeli National was arrested yesterday at Fiumicino Airport, Rome, when the Police found one combat rifle magazine (Galil) with 29 live rounds cal. 5.56 (.203 Winchester) tucked away in a side pocket of his cabin baggage. He was flying to TelAviv. They were both trucked away (separately) and spent the night in jail awaiting interrogation by the Magistrates. This happened at the Security gate in Terminal 5, which was specially built after 9/11 at the request of US and Israeli governments. So much for so much, talk about common sense... :-X http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/articolo496737.shtml http://notizie.it.msn.com/italia/articolo.aspx?cp-documentid=155351248 http://it.reuters.com/article/topNews/idITMIE6AO07P20101125 I looked for these news in Reuters and CNN but could not find them yet. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/25/10 at 10:09:42 The Japanese are having a big laugh over our TSA antics, but hey, this is funny stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kMDMGGiaX0 |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/25/10 at 12:03:08 that was funny, and the last gal was very cute. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by tcreeley on 11/25/10 at 15:09:56 I remember flying in the 1970' and they used metal detecting wands. I thought it was dumb then, and now it is really dumb. The joke is that they don't check the cargo or baggage to any great deal. I someone wants to do some damage they will - the TSA won't stop them. It is a money making opportunity to sell X-ray garbage to the US. Chertkoff who headed Homeland Security under Bush is now a paid lobbyist for the Indian company selling these Xray machines to the US. It keeps the money rolling in to keep America scared of terrorists. Tell an airline passenger - get groped or Xrayed- you'd probably choose the Xray. I say ditch it all. If it is your time you die. There is more risk to riding a motorcycle! Get rid of TSA, + Homeland (just like Fatherland and Nazi gestapo" Security. I don't like living in a police state. :-X :( >:( |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/25/10 at 16:42:37 Death by Terror in Ten Years: 3,000. Death by inadequate Health Care: 444,000. If this government actually cared about National Security, they would have spent all the money they spent on wars and the police state on a National Health Care system. I don't know how many die from murder, car accidents, plane crashes eg. Fewer people fly than drive cars eg. So we take a greater risk going to work each day than being the victim of a terrorist on a plane. People have to draw a line in the sand and stop reacting to the Corporate State's scare tactics. Americans need to stop being such cowards. I saw a woman on TV today actually saying that she is willing to give up some rights in order to feel secure. What a perfect tool for a totalitarian government. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Stimpy - FSO on 11/25/10 at 19:37:26 http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7457/beckinsalesearche129053.jpg Kate Beckinsdale gets stripped-searched at airport. Happy Holiday traveling everyone! :D |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Trippah on 11/25/10 at 20:04:36 I think the body pats and imaging is simply an effort to increase staffing recruitment for what otherwise is a pretty crappy job. If I got to wave my wand at kate B, I might think about coming out of retirement. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/25/10 at 21:14:13 4F69726B6B7A731B0 wrote:
problem is,males search males ,females search females,you wouldn't like that job, in fact If I walked in you would quit. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Starlifter on 11/26/10 at 10:26:41 ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: enough Post by sluggo on 11/26/10 at 13:33:27 try this, if you see you that you are going through a full body scanner. spend a few minutes to work up a big ole woody then go through. give em an eyefull 8-) |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/26/10 at 16:38:20 If I ever am forced to fly, I'll just not shower for about a week... |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/26/10 at 23:13:57 495650574A4D7C4C7C44565A11230 wrote:
God help the really cute gal that sits next to you on the plane,and boy will you be kicking yourself. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/10 at 00:36:22 666268607F636E6762666E720B0 wrote:
God help the really cute gal that sits next to you on the plane,and boy will you be kicking yourself.[/quote] Odds of me gettin molested by TSA? High Odds of me gettin molested by some cutie? Low... Id rather make some tsa jakass sick ,, for 26 years in just a few months |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 05:49:21 For those of you who feel tat there is no real threat, what about the guy (Muslim) they arrested in Portland, Oregon over th eweekend who was planning to blow up a huge bomb inside a van at the city's Christmas tree lighting ? When asked if he knew if there would be lots of children there, he said of course he knew it - they were his target. These are evil people who will kill anyone and everyone to make their point. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Lupo on 11/29/10 at 07:45:51 Jerry, they'll never take the fuzzy earmuffs off. It's the Peace and love mindset. A perfect example is Reginald Denny from the L.A. riots. They think it's the fault of society and evil doesn't exist. I've given up. http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1614117_1614084_1614511,00.html |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/29/10 at 10:11:22 7C737F757E7378747364717364160 wrote:
You may have noticed how theyre all gettin busted prior to the Big bang,,, & that they are being handled BY our people. Just like the Underwear Bomber, Its a GAME people, its called False Flag Terror & we are being conditioned,, The Goobs are nothing but mafia mobsters, using fear to control the people.. wake up,.Jerry, youre way to intelligent to simply accept this as it is being presented. There is a group that wants complete control & theyre getting it, stop believing the lies. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/29/10 at 11:02:25 A recent Harvard Medical school study found that nearly 45,000 Americans die each year ,one every 12 minutes- largely because they lack health insurance.But for the insurance lobby,The only tragedy is the prospect of true health care reform .In 2009,the nation's health insurance corporations funneled more $86 million to the US chamber of commerce to oppose reform.This year,the nation's five largest insurers contributed three times as much money to republican candidates as to Democrats,in the effort to further roll back insurance reform. Rep.Anthony Weiner D-N.Y., an advocate of single-payer health care , Declared in congress that "The republican Party is a wholy owned subsidiary of the insurance industry." Potter agrees,saying the Republican Party has "been almost bought and paid for." Tell me they aint a bunch of fu+king crooks How does it feel to be a republican and responsable for one dead American every 12 minutes ? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 11:05:43 JOG - Have you gone over the deep end? I can't believe that you don't just deal with reality, rather than hunting for a ghost or a witch under every bed, and looking for some sinister conspiracy when our law enforcement agencies do their job, and do it very well. Simple - a criminal planned a horrific attack, but thanks to the efforts of our FBI, they fooled him and caught him. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Boule’tard on 11/29/10 at 11:16:55 3738343E3538333F382F3A382F5D0 wrote:
What does this have to do with groping and peeping by the TSA? Surely you're not suggesting that children and soccer moms visiting SantaLand should submit to the same level of screening. There's a "real threat" allright. Mostly due to two things: 1. Foreigners hate US involvement in their countries that tends to get them slaughtered in numbers a terrorist could only dream of, and 2. Terrorists know that a single attack will make US citizens go into expensive, humiliating and useless conniptions for DECADES after the event. As an aviation guy you should know that the only thing necessary to make a passenger airplane every as safe from hijackings as say, a FedEx cargo plane is to put a solid bulkhead between the cockpit and passengers. Or failing that, at least get a good lock for the door and use it every time. Why all this ridiculous security-theater instead? Because the TSA and government policymakers in general are control freaks. If you support this kind of crap, you're playing right into both the hands of the terrorists and the bicycle seat sniffers running the TSA. And probably not enhancing safety in the long run, due to reason #2 above. This is not fuzzy peace-and-love hippy BS, it's just a more comprehensive look at the whole security game. Unfortunately, the airlines are now separated from their market in regards to security, so they cannot respond to decreased air travel by making the screening process less intrusive. Even so, I hope a great number of people arrange their lives so they can quit flying. Then maybe after a very long time, and in a very roundabout way, an airline passenger will again be able to fly with some dignity. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 11:36:42 Boule'tard - You miss my point - this Muslim freak (did you see his picture on TV, a freak) wanted to blow up a few hundred kids and parents. Yet, TSA will super screen an 80 year old grandmother rather than profile these animals. That's my point - profile them ( the real threat mongers) 100%. If they don't like it, screw 'em. Before Lifter goes on his soapbox, yes, McVey was a WASP, and few crumbs will fall thru the cracks of any system, but why let people of a class known to be dangerous fall through? I'd do the same for a Skinhead if I saw one too - it's not about race, it's about what certain people will do. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/29/10 at 11:59:56 53575D554A565B5257535B473E0 wrote:
No comment Jerry ? |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 12:09:45 Mick - Sorry, not much worthy of comment when you're quoting a speech by some Dem from New York, or from some egghead at Harvard. I'll never change my mind about a gov't single payor system - I like private insurance. No matter what any university sponsored "survey" may show, there is always one to the contrary somewhere. I've never been ill treated by any insurance company for any type of claim in my lifetime, be it a health insurance claim, a property insurance claim, or whatever. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 12:17:24 Mick - Just an example of what I spokje of earlier. Here in Ohio about a year or so ago, the remnants of Hurricane Ike came raring thru with about 70 mph winds. We had a few shingles blown off of our roof at home. My wife called our home insurance company, expecting to get those shingles replaced. The adjuster came out, measured the damaged area which was fairly small, about 10 by 15 feet, but on the front side of the roof where you plainly see it from the road. A few days later the adjuster called and told her that with the age of our roof and how shingles normally fade from sunlight and rain wearing on them, new shingles there would stick out like a sore thumb. He then said that the company would pay for a new roof, and about 10 days later, a check for $22,000 showed up in the mail. We got a completely new roof on the entire house. We dealt with one person, not some line of gov't bureaucrats. Back in 2004 when I had the 2 stents put in my heart, out of a total bill of about $48,000, I think we paid maybe $1,000. That's just typical of my experience with insurance companies from the few claims we've made over the years. I like private insurance. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 12:28:08 Mick - Here's another example of how heartless insurance companies have dealt with claims. My wife owns an aviation insurance agency. She had a client who wrecked a small, 2 seat airplane called a Luscombe. But the story is unusual. This airplane was worth about $17,000. The owner who wrecked it had looked high and low, trying to find the SAME airplane that his father had owned when the current owner was a child. He finally tracked it down and paid dearly for it, more than it was worth, to get this airplane back in the family. On his third flight in it, he wrecked it, but no one was injured. The airplane was a total loss, meaning it would cost more to fix it than the airplane was worth when fixed. When the adjuster talked with my wife, and she told him the story of the owner's tracking down the very airplane that his father had once owned, the adjuster said that made his life very simple - the insurance company would pay the cost to fix the plane rather than total it so the insured could continue to have his dream fulfilled of owning what had been his father's plane. Heartless, wouldn't you say? darned insurance companies, after all. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mornhm - FSO on 11/29/10 at 12:58:27 Jerry, Maybe it helps to have a wife in the industry. Under very similar circumstances to what you describe with your roof, this is what happened to me. Got a good chunk of shingles blew off the back of my house (enough to cause leaks inside. The insurance person (not sure if they are called an adjuster, estimator, inspector, or something else) came out and said the shingles would have to be replaced and that most likely half the roof would need to be replaced, and gave me a damage estimate. I got quotes from several contractors who all said that half the roof would need to be replaced. I called the insurance company who said I needed three quotes. I said I had three quotes, but probably would need to get some immediate protection in case it rained again. The person I talked to at the insurance company said that the paperwork wasn't "through" and that it "was up to you (me) to mitigate damages" if I couldn't get someone to repair the roof. The lowest quote for repair was lower than the insurance companies estimate and the contractor was available because almost everyone with roof damage was still trying to get things worked through with their insurance company so I went ahead and had the work done. When I sent the bill to the insurance company, the same person that I talked to before said that they wouldn't allow the bill, because I didn't allow time for their person (the person that came out in the first place) to come out and re-inspect the damage??? After a few back and forths, they said that they would only allow a portion of the bill. The amount that they disallowed was almost the exact amount that my lawyer said that it would cost to sue them (and win). He estimated that I would end up spending a couple of days in court. I had been using this same insurance company since I got my first car back in the 70s. I decided to pull all my insurance with them (including my business policies). The premiums they lost in the first six months would have been more than the total cost of the roof. Needless to say my agent wasn't really happy, but the adjuster couldn't care less. I have since found out that the adjusters at this company receive compensation based on the amount that they can reduce claims. They are independent of the premium side of the business. My experiences with health care companies is even worse. All insurance companies care about is their bottom line. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 13:27:21 Mornhm - Like all businesses and professions, there are good and bad in the insurance industry. First, my wife's business has no connection at all to our home insuruer - they don't even know what she does for a living. Aviation insurance has no connection to any other form of coverage. Some advice - before you purchase any insurance, do a little homework on their cliams payment philosophy. Don't deal with companies that use outside adjustment firms that get paid based upon saving claims dollars - deal only with companies who have in-house adjusters who are employees of the insurer. Like all purchases, a little homework and research in advance of the buy will pay off in the end. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by bill67 on 11/29/10 at 13:53:53 Jerry you just proved what is wrong with private insurance,You shouldn't have got a hold new roof put on,That why premiums are high,And the over pay for the airplane.Their just as crooked as our government. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 14:05:48 Gee, Bill - Now I know what "crooked" means to you - doing something above and beyond to be nice to your customer. Interesting definition. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mornhm - FSO on 11/29/10 at 14:09:25 Jerry, See my comments below. By the way, my opinion in all of this is that the insurance industry doesn't have the best interest of the country or their customers as their primary interest. Which also in my opinion is why we should get them out of the health care debate entirely. 6768646E6568636F687F6A687F0D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 11/29/10 at 14:23:16 Mornhm - One way to find out is not to deal with insurance companies that have "captive" agents - agents who are employees of only that one insurer. Always use an independent agent who represents multiple companies, then ask him/her the pertinent questions. The independent agent can steer you to the insurer that best suits your needs, AND in the meantime still keep your business. Not so with the captive agent. Also, premium is only one factor - the old saying of "you get what you pay for" can be applicable in insurance too. I'm always surprised when someone (not necessarily you) buys the cheapest policy he can find, then wonders why he may not get first rate claims service. You don't buy an Armani suit at WalMart. Seriously, sometimes just a few bucks per year's premium can make a huge difference in the quality of coverage, and claims service, that you will get. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Boule’tard on 11/29/10 at 14:43:13 3639353F3439323E392E3B392E5C0 wrote:
Jerry, if your point was that there should be profiling, I did miss that and don't think it is a good idea. The problem with profiling (besides bad aesthetics) is that it backfires on implementation. You'd have to objectively define and codify the criteria by which to judge a book by its cover. That has to be done to generate the policy. Let's see What are your options are: By religion? Good luck ramming that one through.. all religions are "religions of peace" don't you know. One squawk for "equal rights" and the TSA will be sniffing your crotch right along with Muslims. You simply will not get special treatment focused on people on the basis of religion. Even if you could, how would it be tracked, by a church registry? Would that not be the easiest thing in the world to fake. This idea, fairly applied, would mean that people who don't indulge in beliefs in an afterlife/eternal rewards AT ALL are the ones who would pass through the TSA express line. Not even that has any chance whatsoever of being implemented. The passenger looks "freaky" - what exactly does that mean, and who gets to decide what constitutes freaky, and how much freakyness is acceptable before the latex gloves come out? It falls back on the subjective opinion of a TSA employee. It opens the door for the embarrassment that we have now, high school dropouts on a power-trip making travelers dance around in a certain way. Little dictators singling people out arbitrarily. There is not a single feature of appearance that can be used as an reliable index, and if there was, terrorists would just be sure to not have that feature. The passenger "looks middle-eastern" - if you propose to use that, prepare to be tarred and feathered for outright bigotry. Age discrimination doesn't work either - wasn't the shoe bomber pretty old? Then there's the cracks, oh those pesky 0.001% cracks. Once the screening criteria are defined, so are the cracks. The traits needed to avoid the screening are then known and can be exploited. Terrorists will just use people and methods that bypass scrutiny. What is now just a tiny little "crack" would become a chasm big enough to drive a truck full of ammonium nitrate through. If you're thinking this stuff should all be kept a secret, kind of like the locations of certain US prisons and the interrogation methods and "special" trial procedures that get people thrown in them, then you've got constitutional problems and have probably fallen prey to the unprincipled douchebaggery that is all over TV. You don't know what "certain people" are the "animals" or give a reliable way to identify them, yet you propose that they be hassled for trying to board a plane. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by mick on 11/29/10 at 14:50:30 4D424E444F4249454255404255270 wrote:
the thing is insurance company's are scared of you, You being a lawyer an all. Average joe's like myself get screwed on a regular bases.When you fill out your application for insurance they always ask you your proffesion. Are they all egg heads at Harvard ? not your school I guess, if I had said it was a survey by the late ronald reagan, it would be just fine. FOR PROFIT health care cannot work, then it's all about money,and nothing else. There was a great movie on a couple of nights ago showing what realy bad people are who sell health insurance ,A Grisham novel "the Rainmaker " great writer and by all acounts a good lawyer. Even Michael Moore scared the crap out of them ,after the movie "Sicko" came out , the insurance industry did every thing in their power to smear M.Moore. but it still won an acadamy award for best documentry, When it opened in Europe people thought it was a comedy, no one could believe a country like America was so backward when it came to health care. ooops,2 people died while I was writing this,because they have no health care . |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by Trippah on 11/29/10 at 14:53:18 Frankly, i would just as happily wear nice disposable paper suit, put my clothes in a suitcase and meet them on the other side of my flight, except the airlines can't manage that reunion with sufficient exactness. Someone want to stare at my 65 yer old body's image...cheap thrills. So long as the TSA establishes a law that the images will be destroyed immediately (unless a person is arrested for attempting to bring a bomb on board). Punnishment should be sufficient..say life in prison no early release so that no TSA employee would even be tempted to steal an image. :-X |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by bill67 on 11/29/10 at 15:10:07 Last week I went to fly to Florida,I didn't get to go I fail the TSA test they said no horses allow on the plane. |
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Title: Re: Enough is Enough. Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/10 at 15:14:14 747F7A7A2021160 wrote:
You mean horses a$$ don't ya? ;D |
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