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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> National Sales Tax? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1292279817 Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/13/10 at 14:36:57 |
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Title: National Sales Tax? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/13/10 at 14:36:57 Let's kick this idea around for a while. It's quietly brewing in some think tanks in Washington, both of the liberal and conservative persuasions. Facts are: 1. Deficit is mind boggling, and the bill will come due eventually. 2. We alreday have some of the highest income tax rates in thE developed world. 3. Most states have a sales tax. 4. Most European countries, which are far more liberal leaning, have a value added tax, which in reality is a national sales tax. The biggest argument against any sales tax is that it can be regressive, since people lower on the economic scale spend more of their total income on taxable items like clothing. It's not really true, since historically food and shelter are not subject to sales taxes, but the regressive argument can easily be dealt with by providing a tax rebate to those whose incomes are below a certain level, such as the famous "federal poverty line". The two biggest arguments in favor of sales taxes are: 1. Impossible to get around - there are no loopholes, everyone pays; rich or poor, illegal working "off the books" someplace - if you buy a taxable item, you pay the tax, period. 2. Costs very little to collect and enforce, unlike income taxes that need an army like the IRS to enforce and collect. And it taxes consumption, not savings nor capital formation. OK, what say ye? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by buttgoat1 on 12/13/10 at 14:47:34 the problem is it is a hidden tax, uninformed people will rage against oil companies making $.05 profit on a gallon of gas while the taxes on it are ten times that. Everyone should pay tax, even if it is only $1 so they will "have skin in the game" and they need to actually pay it rather than have it collected painlessly. That being said, the tax code could surely be simplified, but then an army of lifetime bureacrats would have to actually do work rather than revise the tax code every year. oh yeah, how about cutting spending too? I have, and surely such wise folks in DC could figure that one out. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Driller on 12/13/10 at 14:52:43 The only National sales Tax plan I have seen that is the least bit appealing is "The Fair Tax" proposed by former Rep John Lindner and Neal Boortz. It is worth a look and discussion but ONLY if you read the entire proposal to understand how it works. During the waning days of the recent election only part of the concept was misused to demonize candidates who had given a nod to the bills consideration. One appealing aspect is the concept of easy enforcement and difficulty in getting around paying it. Bringing in more revenue won't make any impact unless a serious commitment to reduce spending is made. A lot of difficult choices lie ahead. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Yonuh Adisi FSO on 12/13/10 at 15:15:06 2D222E242F2229252235202235470 wrote:
The highlighted text is inaccurate. It has only been recently that New Mexico stopped charging sales tax on food and now they are wanting to bring it back. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/13/10 at 15:22:49 The dumbest thing in the world is the fair tax deal,With the fair tax the young family with kids and not making much money would be paying the taxes because sales tax, is the tax system on the fair tax deal,The older people if they don't spend much money want be paying much taxes.The United States got great the way the tax system has been,With Bill Chilton we were pretty much getting out of debt so why would you want to change that. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/13/10 at 15:28:58 Also with a sales tax only, People will not be spendings as much,Buying products is what keeps the economy going.Illinois taxes food,Wisconsin don't. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Driller on 12/13/10 at 15:49:00 010A0F0F5554630 wrote:
Have you read the book by the sponsors outlining how Fair Tax would work? If so, why does the provision for exempting a base level of expenditure via a rebate for everyone (young, old or poor)not seem fair? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Trippah on 12/13/10 at 16:30:28 i hate rebates; I would rather they exempt food at the collection point. Yeah, even truffles, and Grey Pupon. It always costs to collect and redistribute; better to not collect at all. and for the youg families, exempt diapers (cloth and disposable) and, covered above, formula. If you buy a lobster and cook it at home, no tax. Dine out and either a meals tax or sales tax. when I was young, most clothing in Massachusetts was exempt from sales tax; there was a "luxury" tax on furs and top line custom tailored clothing. Seemed fair to me. As an alternative to a sales tax, how about a VAT clone like a transaction tax. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/13/10 at 16:41:37 what's so hard about a progressive flat tax?? meaning, if you make this much then you pay this percentage period, no exemptions. keeping the percentages about the same as they are now or in Clinton years, I don't care which and then sign that into law that can only be changed every 25 years or so, not when the economy is down, not when the economy is up, take the variables out of the system, period. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Trippah on 12/13/10 at 16:55:03 Lost Artist..what is a progresswive flat tax? Seeems a contradiction in terms. If you exclude the "poor" then what investment do they have in fiscal responsibility by the Fed Gvnt? If you increase the percentage when someone makes 100K or more, doesn't that punnish for example a person who goes into debt and goes to school for 4-8 years beyond High school in order to become a MD or architech etc? If you remove the financial incentive to do that extra time in education (and a key 8 years of living in substandard style at that point in life where you want the nice car and spending money and beautiful girl etc.) |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by sluggo on 12/13/10 at 17:14:02 it would unfairly punish the low income, more of their disposable income would go for taxes. i prefer the voluntary tax also know as the lottery. have a national lottery, if you don't want to be taxed don't play. how bout that. btw what excatly does this thread have to do with motorcycles. remember the guidelines. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/13/10 at 17:36:53 a progressive flat tax is a progressive tax system like we have now, but with NO exemptions, tax credits, or other ways of getting out of paying the percentage of taxes your income dictates. then we could get a true base value for what people should really be paying and not how much we are paying to subsidize those, rich, poor, middle class with kids, etc. . . that don't pay their share of taxes, it would probably lower the tax rate as well cause we'd all have to pay. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/10 at 17:45:39 Tax us all at 100%, we still cant get out from under the ODIOUS debt. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/13/10 at 17:51:38 213E383F22251424142C3E32794B0 wrote:
actually we could, if gdp equaled taxable income, which it doesn't which is why it's wrong to use it as a basis for govt spending |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by buttgoat1 on 12/13/10 at 19:18:18 how much would a VAT add tot he cost of a Savage? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/13/10 at 19:36:12 Tell me what would happen if we were completley out of debt . What difference does it make to the average joe blow,I live about the same now as I did when Clinton had us debt free. We have no sales tax in Oregon on anything, the people have to vote on it and it has to pass ,as for the federal tax I'm way below the poverty level,will that help ? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by tldk1678 on 12/14/10 at 05:46:33 Fair Tax correction - there is no rebate. There is actually a prebate. In other words, each household would get a check, debit card, deposit, etc. that would cover the taxes that would be paid on the necessities like housing and food. Please visit www.fairtax.org to get a better understanding. The fair tax combined with a incentive for american corporations to bring their offshore earnings back to the US as well as more fiscally responsible spending policy would drive our economy like never before. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/14/10 at 05:58:58 Mick - Debt is insidious. In the beginning of the cycle, it's great - you get to enjoy possessions and a life style that you, or the country, can't afford out of day to day income. You can have gov't services that the gov't isn't paying for on its day to day income. But as we all know, a day of reckoning comes when you have to repay that debt. A nation can use tricks that an individual or a business can't use, since we people don't have access to the presses that print the currency. So a country can simply print more money. But since the money supply only represents the total value of a country's goods and services, each unit of the currency is worth less as the money supply increases. That's called inflation, and devaluation of the currency. That game can go on only so long, until currency becomes virtually worthless. Remember how the Germans had to take, literally, a wheel barrow full of cash to just buy food during the 1920s and 1930s after WW I, when their economy was in the toilet. The result was the attractiveness of the dogma preached by a radical upstart Austrian from the Munich beer halls, one A. Hitler. So, to answer your question, the current U.S. situation probably doesn't mean much in the next few years, so for old farts like us, we'll probably get thru it. But our children and grandchildren will have the piper to pay. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/14/10 at 05:59:22 The incentive the Americans corporations would be Fair Tax and pay the workers Chinese wages,which will make the rich richer and the poor poorer,Which is whats going on now, except that would speed things up a bit. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/14/10 at 06:28:57 The history of income taxes in the U.S. is quite interesting, coupled with the eras in history that coincide. First, there was never an income tax in the U.S. until the Civil War, when Congress first enacted a temporary income tax to finance the war. The tax ended shortly after the war ended. The next income tax was enacted in 1913, as best I can recall. So, except for that brief period during the Civil War, the U.S. had no income tax at all for the first 140 years (approx.) of our nation's existence. Is it purely accidental that the greatest era of economic expansion occurred during this time of no income tax? I don't think so. Remember that during this century and a half, we grew from 13 colonies all on the East coast to a nation that spanned the North American continent. Also during this time, the great businesses that employed Americans were born - our steel and railroad industries among them. Great American shipping fleets ruled the seas of international commerce. The Industrial Revolution steamed forward. When Congress enacted the tax in 1913, it was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, leading to the passage of the amendment which allowed it, and then the passage of the permanent income tax in 1933. Today we still have the 1933 law, amended and re-codified many times, but the basic philosophy of the graduated income tax is with us today. Since 1933, we have endured the Great Depression, and wild economic boom and bust times. The prosperity of the 1950s and 1960s can be validly argued to be a direct result of WW II, and the massive economic upheaval that the war spawned, as the nation returned from a wartime mindset and the drastically curtailed supplies of consumer goods that were put on hold as our factories produced war materiel. We caught up with that demand for consumer goods during the 50s and into the 60s. Since 1970, haven't things really gone downhill, in the long term view of things? I think so. How many recessions, followed by booms, followed by recessions have we endured in the last 40 years? Just wonder, if you can, what life was like when, if you made a buck, you kept it, all of it. The gov't ran on taxes from consumption, not from capital formation. An income tax is a tax on capital formation. A sales tax taxes consumption. So long as a program exists to shield folks below a certian minimal level from any regressive nature of a sales tax, it's really the only way to go to ensure continued economic growth. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/14/10 at 06:49:19 To bad Bill Chilton didn't know about that, things would have really been great.The system we have is the right system,No breaks for the wealthy and it will be going good again. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/14/10 at 10:11:29 647C747B21262728100 wrote:
and how would the govt know what the correct "prebate" would be? my grocery bill varies month to month, as does my cost of electricity? what magical formula would the govt use to determine/control how much you spend or are supposed to spend on "necessities" do cigarettes count, junk food, fast food, alcohol, gasoline ( what if your commute is 40 miles and the average commute is 5 mile do you just get screwed for driving further to work, or if you have to change jobs. .. ) how does making it more expensive to buy goods in America incentivise companies to sell goods in America since as prices go up, demand will drop for goods?? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by verslagen1 on 12/14/10 at 10:23:38 Prebate? that's just to keep the IRS right? Taxation rate is easily defined at point of sale/service. no need for a p/rebate no need for IRS |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/14/10 at 10:24:25 28272B212A272C202730252730420 wrote:
okay, here we go: Quote:
recessions and booms are the economic cycle, they've been around way before America was around, steady growth is an illusion Quote:
This never happens, you make a buck you must spend it on shelter, food, etc . . you don't get to keep it all, that's not how capitalism works, private industry taxes you in that way, their tax is called their profit Quote:
I like this, too bad I don't think we'd agree on what the "minimal level" should be, to me it should be where you can make something of yourself and not just get by, so the current poverty level is way too low, you can barely exist from that, no hope means no risk taking means no growth mean stagnate life means depression means death. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/14/10 at 10:26:55 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
that idea of a prebate is for fair tax where the additional cost added to essential goods via the fair tax makes it increasingly hard for those in the lower rungs of income to do any saving or even exist, it's the fair tax form of charity/welfare |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by verslagen1 on 12/14/10 at 11:30:54 Let me tell you about the lower rung of society. They'll take their prebate and spend it all in one shot. There'll be no using it only for the fair tax. They'll live good that day and tomorrow they'll be back on the street with their empty hand out. Vendors have the ability to tax or not tax individual goods or services. That's were the burden should be based. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by sluggo on 12/14/10 at 12:11:20 how come nobody's bit on my suggestion of a lottery. it would work. voluntary tax. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/14/10 at 12:14:42 I feel sorry for the people in congress their cost of living keeps going up,but they do get a raise for it.Its official I got my S.S. papers today my cost of living hasn't went up in 2 years lucky me. Same old monthly pay check.The US postal works cost of living went up too they get a 4.6% raise in April. >:( |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Driller on 12/14/10 at 13:38:05 Let's take Fair Tax off the table since it is not the same as the National Sales Tax currently being discussed in Washington. It is meant to replace ALL Federal taxes and existing tax codes. Perhaps it deserves to be discussed separately. Jerry's original question addresses the use of a National Sales Tax or variation of a V.A.T. on top of existing Federal taxes to supposedly reduce the deficit/debt problem. I think all of us could agree to be pi**ed off over having to pay more for most everything we touch.....the cost of our bikes and their parts included. That is what would come from such a proposal. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/14/10 at 13:51:02 Driller - Like often happens, I didn't articulate the issue very well. I didn't mean a VAT or variation in addition to income tax, I meant instead of our current high income tax rates, among the highest in the developed world. I meant to say a VAT together with lessened income tax to foster capital formation, and to tax consumption more than savings. For instance - I have cousins in Switzerland who operate a very successful business, and who are, by every observation, quite successful personally. My cousin told me that his income tax rate is 15%. Of course, Switzerland has a VAT in addiditon to the smaller income tax. That's what makes sense to me. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by verslagen1 on 12/14/10 at 14:01:01 There was a nordic country that was report to have high income tax. Something like 80%, who were they? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/14/10 at 14:35:09 the idea of lessened income tax with a VAT is not terrible, if it could fund the govt. which I don't know, it would definitely change the way people spend though not sure how industry would take that uncertainty, we are talking personal income tax right, not corporate tax which is like 28% right? which hasn't changed in a long time <-- not sure on that but I get that impression, most of the complaining from DC and republicans is about personal income tax going up somehow causing businesses to be uncertain or something, kind of a confusing way to say, we aren't giving in to the rich but we don't want them to stop spending so we are giving in to the rich |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/10 at 15:28:49 Who here REALLY wants to "fund this government"? I sure dont. If I worked for an employer who paid me diddly squat while he wasted millions Id be working like a slob or Id quit.This is the most wasteful, lying bunch of crooks Ive ever seen ,, |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/14/10 at 15:58:05 There is nothing wrong with the system it is the best,The problem was the uncalled for wars and the tax saving for the rich.You can't spend more money and take in less,Didn't you learn that when you were a kid. (GWB) If you think it was wrong what was wrong with it when Bill Clinton left office. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/10 at 17:13:46 No, not true, the system is broken. Once we got a solid core of presidential advisers from the TRilateral commission & heck, Ive forgotten the names of the other groups, but the president has been relegated to a puppet. Weve seen lobbyists from industry get into the top spot in the regulatory agencies over their respective industries, Fox/Henhouse,, all the way,. & weve seen the same faces in DC, people making policy, UNELECTED people, making policy.. Kennedy was the last president.; |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by tldk1678 on 12/14/10 at 19:23:40 one thing to consider as far as income + VAT vs fair tax is that you know exactly wgat you pay in tax each year with the fair tax. This will be a huge eye opener for a lot of people as to what we spend each year. VAT is added at each transaction of a product so that the end product price has embedded taxes that are invisible to most people. How much tax do you pay when you buy gas, cigarettes, beer, etc? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/14/10 at 19:34:32 Watch it justin and Bill we can only talk motorcycles now, Along with you Jerry,and Serowbot, Starlifter, myself, just to name a few interesting speakers, but Hey, this is after all a motor cycle forum and that is what we should all be talking about, I guess anything else goes to the Tall Table. Sluggo has mentioned it twice,so they (the moderators) really mean it this time. So Please guys take up to the adult tall table.This way we will give the moderators way less work, I used to be one ,I know it's a tough job.. Sales Tax has no place here. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/14/10 at 19:35:29 2D3E2928373A3C3E356A5B0 wrote:
motor cycles only Vers,sorry. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by tldk1678 on 12/15/10 at 05:49:37 OK, try this. Motorcycle seat -Farmer sells cow to hide processor - VAT added, processor sells to tanner/dyer - VAT added, tanner/dyer sells to seat mfr. - VAT added, seat mf. sells to motorcycle mfr. - VAT added, now motorcycle mfr. sells to you with all of these embedded taxes built into the price of your bike. Imagine that with everything manufactured in the US. Please just read about the Fair Tax when your not reading about motorcycles. Did I use the word motorcycle enough? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/15/10 at 14:31:01 6F7C6B6A75787E7C7728190 wrote:
Yes I think you are talking about Sweden,but then again like England , only the wealthy get hit with the big tax bills,and that is why British movie stars live here for 7 months of the year,they can claim US residents because they live longer here than the UK ,Prime example Cathrine Zeta Jones . Paul McCartney,John Lennon.and a very old pair , Bob Hope.and Charley Chaplin,but they later became citizens. there are many many more. When I lived in England the rich got hammered real bad , but me ? I got taxed about the price a pack of cigs. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/15/10 at 14:37:45 Mick - We all have to remember that even if they ride mtorocycles, there are not enough of the super rich, like Zeta Jones or McCartney to make a dent in the national debt even if they were taxed at 100%. Soaking the rich is politically popular, but as the UK found out, it only drives them away, and matters not a whit in the big picture. There just aren't enough of them to matter. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/15/10 at 14:39:48 Odd just yesterday on this very column there was a message from a moderator that said everything should be M/C related ,where did it go ? very mysterious. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/15/10 at 15:19:44 505F5359525F54585F485D5F483A0 wrote:
so, this only works one way then right? there's not enough of them to matter to tax to get out of debt, but there's enough of them to matter to give tax breaks too to increase "job growth" ? again, my philosophy of the middle and lower classes spend money and the rich collect it from them is influencing my bias here a bit potato potato <--- motorcycle noise |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by bill67 on 12/15/10 at 15:27:09 505F5359525F54585F485D5F483A0 wrote:
It sure mattered in the big picture of 2000-2100, Those rich people just didn't spend enough money to keep the economy going. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/15/10 at 19:57:29 4F404C464D404B474057424057250 wrote:
I'm not sure how many motorcycles they have but the number of US housholds with a net worth of one million or more excluding wealth derived from a primary residence grew 16% last year,according to a new report by Spectrem Group a Chicago based consulting firm.After a 27% decline in the number of millionaires,the number swelled to 7.8 million ,millionaires last year (I bet they love Obama) And it was an even better year to be an" ultra high net worth individual" defined as someone with a net worth of 5 millionor more,that population also grew by 17% to 980,000. American Billionaires 371 way more than any country in the world, Saudi Arabia has 11, UAE 5, UK was also 11. just think of the motorcycle we could all by,we could make Jay Leno look like a pauper. So Jerry you don't think 7.8 million millionaires,will make any difference ? how about the almost one million 5 millionaires ? 371 billionaires.? I have to ask Jerry which catigory do you represent ? If you were in the middle with 5 mil ,what kind of motorcycle would you buy ? one for the wife ? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/16/10 at 08:52:09 no reply Jerry to the above ? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/16/10 at 09:13:27 Mick - Didn't see a question, except whom do I represent. We mainly represent manufacturers and airport operators. My wife won't even sit on a motorcycle - she's scared to death of them. Regardless of how many rich folks of varying descriptions there are in the U.S., the fact remains that the federal deficit is so high that their tax rate, of any amount, is like one grain of sand on the beach. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by buttgoat1 on 12/16/10 at 09:18:58 4D49434B5448454C494D4559200 wrote:
Yes I think you are talking about Sweden,but then again like England , only the wealthy get hit with the big tax bills,and that is why British movie stars live here for 7 months of the year,they can claim US residents because they live longer here than the UK ,Prime example Cathrine Zeta Jones . Paul McCartney,John Lennon.and a very old pair , Bob Hope.and Charley Chaplin,but they later became citizens. there are many many more. When I lived in England the rich got hammered real bad , but me ? I got taxed about the price a pack of cigs.[/quote] thats funny, A gallup poll say 1/3 want to leave Britain, and 45% of 30-45 YO's want to leave? Prime time working age folks. Why would ANYONE want to leave such a wonderful place? All the free healthcare you want? How is the motorcycling there? http://www.gallup.com/poll/145208/One-Three-Britons-Leave.aspx |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by JohnBoy on 12/16/10 at 10:04:02 charge "everyone" 25% no loopholes no death tax no State tax Tax dodgers go to a 'real' jail! Where do we vote? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by LostArtist on 12/16/10 at 11:18:39 I'm not voting for a 10-15% tax increase on lower income people, especially since that is me, no go JohnBoy and the "rich" are complaining about 4%???? |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by tldk1678 on 12/16/10 at 18:47:57 082D2A2C002D3B420 wrote:
You are, in essence, describing the Fair Tax. Bear in mind, you eliminate the income tax so that your check would now reflect everything you earn. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/16/10 at 20:20:58 40574451575057445B360 wrote:
Yes I think you are talking about Sweden,but then again like England , only the wealthy get hit with the big tax bills,and that is why British movie stars live here for 7 months of the year,they can claim US residents because they live longer here than the UK ,Prime example Cathrine Zeta Jones . Paul McCartney,John Lennon.and a very old pair , Bob Hope.and Charley Chaplin,but they later became citizens. there are many many more. When I lived in England the rich got hammered real bad , but me ? I got taxed about the price a pack of cigs.[/quote] thats funny, A gallup poll say 1/3 want to leave Britain, and 45% of 30-45 YO's want to leave? Prime time working age folks. Why would ANYONE want to leave such a wonderful place? All the free healthcare you want? How is the motorcycling there? http://www.gallup.com/poll/145208/One-Three-Britons-Leave.aspx[/quote] I honestly find nothing funny in the poll,did you also read about all the Americans who are trying to immigrate to Australia ? and New Zealand, and even Canada,and guess what 15000 a year actually immigrate to the UK,I guess some people just have a little gypsy in them. Personally I find hardly any difference between England and the US,and with the weather here in Oregon about the same as the UK ,I can hardly tell,you all ride on the wrong side of the road. And there are millions without health care. Another piece of trivia 50% of people who immigrate here go home within a year or two, not counting mexicans. If my kids and family didn't live here I would go home in a heartbeat. But with two passports I can live where ever the heck I like. It does not matter if I become a citizen of any country in the world I would still be British, that is the one thing that is a fact I cannot lose my British citizenship,ever. Born British - Die British. |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by tcreeley on 12/17/10 at 18:15:28 National sales tax is regressive - the poor people pay a higher proportion of what they make to live on than the rich. The stupid tax bill passed today gives the richest 2 % a 2 year tax break. - that's millionaires and billionaires, who happen to own 80% of all of the money in the US. But those single people making 20,000 or less a year are getting a $200.00 tax increase per year. That is 2 hours+ of work time to pay for new takes. That is nothing to a rich guy, it is a lot to a poor person. Stupid politicians and stupid rich people swindle America every day. I didn't see the rich create any new jobs in the last 10 years. -But they sent a lot of jobs overseas.http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Smilies/thumbdown.gif |
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Title: Re: National Sales Tax? Post by mick on 12/17/10 at 21:23:26 74637265656C6579000 wrote:
I wish the rich were stupid,clearly we are the stupid ones we get the shaft and they get richer, and this after Obama promised not to raise taxes on people making less than 250,000 what happend to that promise ? What happened so the single payer health package ? Ooops,it was the republicans blocking every move the president made. Well don't worry guys you will have Sarah Palin in 2012,I'm sure she will solve all our problems. |
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