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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293484308 Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/27/10 at 13:11:48 |
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Title: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/27/10 at 13:11:48 I don't know the answer to this one, but he certainly seems to have redeemed himself. There is a news story that Pres. Obama personally telephoned the owner of the Philadelphia Eagles to congratulate him on signing Vick and giving him a second chance in the NFL. No one in his/her right mind would condone what Vick did with the dog fighting ring. But as the news folks are saying, and correctly so in my book, the man faced his punishment, did his time in Leavenworth, and is so far redeeming himself like a gentleman. Obama pointed out that few former cons get a chance to re-enter the real world, and perhaps Vick's popularity will change that. I personally think that non-violent offenders, who pose no real and present danger to other people, deserve a chance to prove that they are ready to resume a productive role in society. As for ax murderers, and other violent offenders, it's a different story, most of the time. One of my law school classmates is doing 20 years to life in an Ohio prison. He came home one night to find his wife dispensing her pleasures to another fellow, and unloaded a 9mm into her. His first parole hearing was this month, and he was refused, and his next chance to get out is in 2015. Is he a danger to others? Probably not. Contrary opinions, anyone? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Serowbot on 12/27/10 at 13:30:15 I'll agree in principal,...but neither dog fighting or killing your wife are "non-violent" offenses... So, those two go in the no mercy category... |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/27/10 at 14:13:23 we have a local sportscaster here in St. Louis who contents Vick 'murdered' the dogs and shouldn't play football again. Now, I have a dog and have what I would call an average affection towards dogs, but I would never use the term 'murder' to describe killing a dog. I think murder should be reserved for human beings. I've tried calling in a few times, but my drive home was always too short to get on. I've not listened to him since, but I suspect he's going after Vick even harder now that he's possibly on his way to MVP. 18 months in jail for breeding and knowingly introducing dogs to a sport that will quickly kill most of them seems to me about right. Caught again, 5 years. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/27/10 at 14:18:37 WM - Whadda think about my classmate? Should he ever get out, or rot in jail until he dies? At the time he went off the deep end and shot his wife (who knows what else was going on in the marriage?) he was a prosecutor. After some point in time, should we keep someone in jail just for pure retribution? As this guy is now about 64 years old, and he's been locked up over 20 years, assuming that he's not really a danger to society, should he be let out? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by mick on 12/27/10 at 14:44:02 3E313D373C313A363126333126540 wrote:
In my humble opinion YES he should have been let out 10 years ago. his crime was one of passion . A devorce is the right way to go as we all know, but in that crazy moment you see your wife in bed with anothere dude some guys just cant stand it. If it had been me I would have told them both to leave , and tell my wife to never come back. I abhor violence. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/27/10 at 14:50:33 Mick - You and I agree 98% on this one - crimes of passion are almost never repeated. On a totally different note, I don't abhor violence in the proper setting, like the first Gulf War back in 1991, or in WW II. If you're going to have to fight, then do it as violently as you can, and get it over as quickly as possible. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/27/10 at 14:50:37 I almost hate to post this, but here goes anyway. First, Vick. Yes, I absolutely disagree with dog fighting. But I do think he didn't act alone, he took most of the blame, he did his time, he has made major retribution... let the man be. I would wager that he will never get involved in anything like that again. I doubt it was an addiction that he can't control, type of thing that he's gonna have to run out and do again. He is one talented athlete and I think he deserves to be allowed to play... and play well he does. Your classmate. Well, he did take a life. But how many murderers get lesser sentences and are out before 20 years? I think I'm a pretty sympathetic person, in general. He killed her for a "reason" (granted, not a very good one, but still). To me, it doesn't sound like he did it for kicks, sounds like he snapped. How many get off with a temporary insanity plea? (btw, seems like that should have worked for him). But in general, I would guess that he's not going to turn into some serial killer/axe murderer... guessing of course. But my question is... what was their reason for denying parole? Has he been violent while imprisoned? Has he threatened others? Parole board must have seen something. Basically, I would say at 64 years old, and already served over 20 years, it would seem plausible to let the man out. So why didn't they? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/27/10 at 14:57:17 BH - I don't know why they didn't let him out. I'm not privvy, as I obviously have no connection with the victim or him, so I have no access to any parole board reasoning. None of that is public info. From knowing him in school, I can't imagine he's anything but a model inmate. And as a former prosecutor, he's a lot like a former cop in prison - a target for other cons. So maybe there were some problems. Perhaps in the 20 years he's been in jail, he has hardened. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by mick on 12/27/10 at 14:59:13 797A7B76746E170 wrote:
very good question Babyhog. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/27/10 at 15:01:41 He should have got the gas chamber years ago so we don't have to support him. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by mick on 12/27/10 at 15:12:37 242B272D262B202C2B3C292B3C4E0 wrote:
Jerry I did not mean war time violence,I meant unnessary violence,Like the guy we are talking about,he could have have did as I would have done. Put a few terrorist in front of me wanting to do me or my family harm I would kill them without batting an eye. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/27/10 at 15:22:15 Mick - See the new thread I started on old laws. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/27/10 at 23:31:48 This article is about the former mayor of Washington, D.C. For the U.S. House member, see Robert Marion Berry. For the fruit, see Marionberry. Marion Barry Member of the Council of the District of Columbia for the 8th Ward Incumbent Assumed office January 2, 2005 Preceded by Sandy Allen In office January 2, 1993 – January 2, 1995 Preceded by Wilhelmina Rolark Succeeded by Eydie D. Whittington 2nd Mayor of the District of Columbia In office January 2, 1979 – January 2, 1991 Preceded by Walter Washington Succeeded by Sharon Pratt Kelly 4th Mayor of the District of Columbia In office January 2, 1995 – January 2, 1999 Preceded by Sharon Pratt Kelly Succeeded by Anthony A. Williams At-Large Member of the Council of the District of Columbia In office January 2, 1975 – January 2, 1979 Preceded by None Succeeded by John L. Ray Born March 6, 1936 (1936-03-06) (age 74) Itta Bena, Mississippi Political party Democratic Spouse(s) Blantie Evans (1962-1964) Mary M. Treadwell (1972-1977) Effi Slaughter (1978-1993) Cora Masters (m. 1994) Children Christopher Barry Tamara Masters Wilds (stepdaughter) Lalanya Masters Abner (stepdaughter) Alma mater LeMoyne–Owen College Fisk University Profession Investment Banking Religion Baptist Website dccouncil.us/barry/ Marion Shepilov Barry, Jr. (born March 6, 1936) is an American Democratic politician who is currently serving as a member of the Council of the District of Columbia, representing DC's Ward 8. Barry served as the second elected mayor of the District of Columbia from 1979 to 1991, and again as the fourth mayor from 1995 to 1999. In addition to his current term, Barry also served two other tenures on the D.C. Council, as an At-Large member from 1975-79, and as Ward 8 representative from 1992-95. In the 1960s he was involved in the Civil Rights Movement, serving as the first president of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). Barry came to national prominence as mayor of the national capital, the first prominent civil-rights activist to become chief executive of a major American city[1]; he gave the presidential nomination speech for Jesse Jackson at the 1984 Democratic National Convention. His celebrity transformed into international notoriety in January 1990, when Barry was videotaped smoking crack cocaine and arrested by FBI officials on drug charges. The arrest and subsequent trial precluded Barry seeking re-election, and Barry served six months in a federal prison. After his release, however, he was elected to the D.C. city council in 1992 and ultimately returned to the mayoralty in 1994, serving from 1995 to 1999. Despite his history of political and legal controversies (which continues to the present day), Barry remains a figure of enormous popularity and influence on the local political scene of Washington D.C. The alternative weekly Washington City Paper nicknamed him "Mayor-for-Life," a designation that remained long after Barry left the mayoralty.[2] The Washington Post has stated that "To understand the District of Columbia, one must understand Marion Barry."[3] |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 05:17:08 Good example JOG, and look at Martha Stewart, Pete Rose.... just 2 who popped into my head. I think Vick will rebound too. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 05:22:59 BH - Martha Stewart was a scapegoat, pure and simple. If she did anything wrong at all, it was only following advice from a stockbroker. But of course, in this day and age, prosecutors revel in the chance to derail someone of wealth and prominence. Look how that scumbag Eliot Spitzer has rebounded and is now a TV commentator. The lives he destroyed on his quest for political power were pitiful. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 05:28:27 So do you think that the person's popularity determines the outcome more than the crime itself? Seems to me to be so. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 05:36:59 I don't know about the outcome and the eventual sentence. The first OJ trial sure went the other way. But most prosecutors ( I say most, certainly not all ) have political ambitions beyond simply working thier entire lives in a courtroom. Positive publicity is one of the keys to success for any politician, and getting name recognition in the process. How better to do that then taking down a person of wealth and prominence, with whom most common folk don't sympathize to start with, to make the prosecutor look like the champion of the common person, and getting all of the publicity? I bet none of us can immediately recall who the prosecutor was who went after real criminals like the D.C. sniper, or even Timothy McVeigh. But we sure remember Eliot Spitzer's name, don't we? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/10 at 05:44:44 Popularity and a good lawyer go a long way to saving your butt (Lindsey Lohan) On the other hand, popular opinion, an overzealous prosecutor can work against you, (Scooter Libby, Conrad Black). Jerry; regarding your friend, as a gun owner, I have no problem with someone having a loaded pistol in the house, but when he came home and caught them, did he have the gun with him? Did he usually carry it? Did he usually keep his gun in the nightstand? Could he have suspected something was going on and hatred was building in him so he started carrying his gun? You’re a lawyer so you know facts like this make a difference. Having said all of that, if I caught someone abusing my daughter and my gun was downstairs where it is now, I could see myself going down the steps, getting it, loading it and coming back upstairs and blowing someone’s brains out. It would take me maybe 60 – 90 seconds to do all that. In that time, would a reasonable person expect me to stop and consider what I was doing? If I were on that jury, I’m not sure I could convict a guy who did that. If I were on a parole board, I’m not sure I could keep a guy in jail for doing that. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 05:59:07 "...with whom most common folk don't sympathize to start with..." Lindsey Lohan may have had sympathy to begin with, but I have certainly lost any sympanthy for her. OJ may have had fans, but that crime was just so brutal! Then all the media attention, I think OJ made it easy for fans to turn on him. He didn't help himself, IMO. What about Mike Tyson? I don't think he ever won his fan base back. He never "redeemed" himself (again, IMO.) Not sure Lohan can ever redeem herself. Brittany Spears is trying to rise again. I don't know much about Spitzer, but I think he admitted his involvement with the prostitution stuff, right? Admission of guilt and sincere repentence goes a long way... |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 06:04:07 WM - This discussion can take many turns and twists. I agree with all you said. Maybe I was taking a simpler approach. Incarceration of anyone is a real financial burden to the state. There is starting to be some intelligent writing among criminal authorities about the need to keep older prisoners locked up. Maybe I'm an old softy at heart, but I question whether a 64 year old man who committed a crime of passion 20 year earlier is any kind of threat to society. Is it worth the high cost to keep such a person in jail just for retribution's sake alone? There was a show on of the cable channels not long ago about prisoners in one state who are in their 70s and even 80s. Just their health care costs alone are mind boggling. If you saw one of these old guys on the street, you would think he was someone's grandpa. I have a friend who used to run a company that provided dental clinics in our Ohio prisons. Most prisoners are people who never had the best dental care to start with, and just the most basic care, like doing extractions, fillings, etc.; certainly nothing exotic like impants or cosmetic dentistry; is very expensive for the state. I am coming to the belief that there is a time when many prisoners can be let out as they age, as their ability or propensity to do harm to others diminishes to nearly zero. Now there are exceptions, and Charles Manson comes to mind as one of those. He is so evil that he needs to stay behind bars until he dies. But he is far from the average older prisoner who, sometime in the distant past, committed a crime that isn't likely to be repeated. And, as the population ages in general with the baby boomker generation getting older by the day, the % of older prisoners is rising fairly dramatically. The U.S. already incarcerates a higher % of its population that most other developed countries. Has it solved anything? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/28/10 at 06:09:03 7A484F5E59485F604C5F462D0 wrote:
You're talking about if your daughter was abused,But if she was have sex with him because she liked him ,You would have no right to shoot him.You can also shoot some one in the leg you don't have to kill them. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 06:09:48 Jerry, I agree with all that. If this guy was a prosecutor, then he obviously had some intelligence. Why couldn't part of his sentence be to provide legal services to the less fortunate? Something "useful" to society instead of costing society a small fortune? But still, they must have had a reason for not letting that particular guy out. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/28/10 at 06:13:44 Babyhog he was and outright killer,They do kill again and rapist rape again.If it was your sister that got killed you would think about it different. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 06:20:08 62696C6C3637000 wrote:
I don't know bill. If it were my sister, then I would probably know the man and I might be able to answer that. But I am no so naive to say "once a killer, always a killer" after a crime of passion. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 06:21:02 BH - As for this guy's providing legal services, of course, he was officially disbarred shortly after his conviction. He may be a "jailhouse lawyer" for some of the other inmates, but he'll never practice law again on the outside, or appear in a courtroom for someone else. He can give advice to other cons on the inside, but that's all he can do. Again, I'm ignorant of the salient facts since his incarceration, but my guess is that he was denied parole at the first hearing purely because he hadn't "served enough time" yet for killing someone, regardless of why, or whether he is a threat to repeat. Many judges are against mandatory sentencing laws, and most judges in states that have the "three strikes and you're out" laws on the books detest those laws. But it's politically popular for legislators to pass those laws and then tell the public how they are so law and order oriented. I certainly am not advocating throwing open the jailhouse doors; but somehow there is a happy medium, isn't there? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/28/10 at 06:24:18 O J had the right to kill because it was a crime of passion. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/10 at 06:30:37 Lots of turns and twist for sure! Good thing it's a slow week for me! If I recall, Manson never physically killed anyone. How dangerous could he be on the street if he were loose today? Every cop on the block would know where he is 24/7. If the standard for release is cost to the state, wow, what a can of worms that is….What do you do with a prisoner who has no medical insurance, no means of support etc.. but has poor health? Let them go on our wonderful state run Medicare/medicade? (Maybe Obamacare has a special loophole written in the bill we've not see yet….) I would bet we start to see more home confinement using tracking devices. If I had a choice between prison and being confined inside my house for 5 years, of course I'm going to take my house. hmm...what effect would that have on society if we started confining inmates to their homes / apartments? How would you put that into effect? I have a house so it would be easy to confine me. What would you do about someone in an apartment? What about someone who couldn't afford to pay for housing? Lot of questions….? We have an area police officer who killed 4 students from India in a terrible drunk driving accident. What is the cost to taxpayers to put her in prison for the next 40 years? What would the cost be to confine her to home? Should she be at home after killing for kids?... |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 06:38:08 Ok, I understand the disbarrment, but it still seems they could have used his expertise in a beneficial manner... somehow. His sentence was 20 to life? And he's already served 20? Got to a parole hearing. But its a hearing, not an automatic release. Somehow a group of people determined it was better for him to stay in. Just as a group decided that he should be incarcerated for 20 to life. That's the system. Yes, I think there should be a happy medium. But what about setting him free? He's been in jail for a long time, he's over 60, what would he do? Would the State still have to assist him? Still costing money? Geez, I'm contradicting myself in my ramblings. Guess that means I'm a bit torn. My first thought was let the poor old fella out, let him re-start his life. But I guess that's just my sympathy talking. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/28/10 at 06:38:19 Accidental killing is different. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 06:52:44 WH - Home confinement works for very short term sentences. But if you really confine one to his home, 24/7, for very long, he won't have a home in which to confine him, since he can't work (remember, 24/7 confinement, like in jail) from home except in very limited circumstances and occupations. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/10 at 07:25:51 Home confinement would have to be in cases where the probability of home stability was very high. However, that would lead to charges of preferential treatment. But if this police officer owns a home and/or is married with a high probability of always having a stable living arrangement, does it make fiscal sense as well as satisfying a sense of judgment to confine her via tracking device for the next 20 years? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 07:36:40 WM - Probably makes fiscal sense. But I need to know a lot more to support any kind of 20 year sentence for an accident resulting in death. How high was her BAC level? A repeat offender or first timer? Age? I don't use the term "drunk driving" to describe a simple DUI violation of an arbitrary .08% limit. While one's reactions are a bit diminished at .08, it's far from "drunk". So how high was this person's BAC? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/10 at 08:18:53 A blood sample taken 45 minutes after the crash showed her blood alcohol content at .229. Three hours later, she tested at 0.169. Off-duty, drinking at a bar a couple blocks from police station. Drove wrong way and had head on collision with 5 students/workers all in their 20's from India. 4 died, 1 critical. she was near death herself and is possibly permanently disabled. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 08:40:59 OK. 0.229% IS drunk, no question about that. So, given her condition (let's assume permanent disability ), what's the appropriate penalty? Certainly a tragedy for all concerned, including the woman driving. I certainly don't feel that 20 years in the slammer is apropriate, given the fact that everyday she'll feel the permanent effects herself from her misdeed. Glad I don't have to make the call on this one - jailing an already disabled person doesn't do much to prevent a repeat, does it? Yet, you can't let her go scott free. As an aside, this is the sort of BAC level that we need to be concerned about; not .08%. Once a person gets in the range of .17% or higher, then this sort of "wrong way up the freeway", or other serious deviations happen. But at .08 it doesn't. At .08, you might take a turn a little tight and have your front tire brush the center line with no oncoming traffic in sight (the cop's delight - gotcha even though you haven't done anything dangerous), but that's about it. I've advocated for years that we return to a limit of .15%, like is was for decades before the MADD women became so powerful, then lay the hammer down on those violators. But leave the guy alone who had a couple of beers after work. .08% is no more impaired than a person whose concentration is diverted by using a cell phone, or whose reactions have simply diminished as he has aged beyond about 75 for a normal person. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/10 at 09:30:49 I agree we're getting carried away a bit with DUI. full disclosure: i'm not innocent in this regard..... I worked for a company with HQ in Europe. When visiting over there, they had no problem throwing a few back after work, but they were hyper-sensitive to driving afterwards. the fines and jail time if caught are massive. I remember I drove back to hotel after two beers and the two people I was with were astonished I would even think of that. I tried to tell them two beers was like driving in the morning before coffee or after a baby kept me up half the night. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Serowbot on 12/28/10 at 09:38:03 If the old guy ever does get out,... I hope he doesn't find a new girlfriend... That could be dangerous... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 10:10:26 WM - I've spent quite a bit of time in Europe as well, and know full well about the German attitudes. But then, if we had the equivalent of their autobahn system with many sections having no speed limit at all, if makes more sense to be hyper-sensitive about it. I wouldn't think of getting on an autobahn where cruising speeds exceed 100 mph even after two drinks. Reaction times have to be sharp to be safe when going that fast or faster. I do love to be there in a rented Mercedes cruising at 120 mph. But here in the U.S., where in most areas the upper limit is 65 or 70 mph, it's a different story. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by verslagen1 on 12/28/10 at 11:20:27 This was a rambling reading of how statistics are used against minority groups. The highlighted quote is an absolute lie. But the report is written w/o any clear objective and many contradictions. You have to skip to table 22 just to find a hint at the crash causes, 35% of the time cars fail to yield to m/c's vs. 4% m/c's to cars. I believe the limited scope of the report negates it's validity. The only thing I could say about this report is 3/4 of the riders that are killed are stupid. And all of the noise off people are stupid for thinking that because 45% of 2.5% are riders with modified exhausts have excessive noise. And everyone of them is in violation of the law. If they have their way the only muffler that you can use will be stock, regardless if it just as quiet or not. http://www.noiseoff.org/motorcycles.php Quote:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pubs/810834.pdf Quote:
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/28/10 at 12:07:56 3536373A38225B0 wrote:
His expertise was killing someone |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/28/10 at 12:20:52 Verslagen - I can't take time this afternoon to reda the reports. One thing that does amaze me is the number of bikes I see parked outside of bars. While I'll drive after a drink or two, I won't ride after even one. Ridng is like flying and driving very fast - all require sharp reactions and a steady head to make snap decisions, and to most importantly stay ahead of the bike, plane, or car. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by bill67 on 12/28/10 at 12:37:06 I've been so drunk I couldn't walk good, but could drive a motorcycle or snowmobile. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by photojoe on 12/28/10 at 12:41:07 7576777A78621B0 wrote:
Pete Rose, wow what a blast from the past. If I remember, George Steinbrenner got convicted/or at least nailed for the same thing and was barred from running the NY Yankees? Yeah, pete could no longer be employed in baseball, and george was back running things in a very short time. Can people change? Do people feel remorse after committing a violent act/crime? Of course some people do. The hard part is determining who those people are. A job for the parole board. There are expungement statutes here in NJ, and a bill passed earlier this year made it easier for those convicted of certain crimes to petition the court to have their records sealed off. It used to be a 10 year wait, and no drug convictions could be expunged. It's now a 5 year wait and some drug charges can now be expunged. People can get a felony conviction expunged and put down "no" when asked if they were ever convicted of a felony, when applying for truck/livery driver certifications, and jobs like nurses, lawyers etc. There are exceptions like applying for a job in law enforcement. So, the conviction is never really destroyed from the files, just kind of hidden. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by photojoe on 12/28/10 at 12:44:03 53585D5D0706310 wrote:
Drive a motorcycle or snowmobile into what? Eh eh eh. Just kiddin with ya William. I have cabin fever from being snowbound. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by thumperclone on 12/28/10 at 15:48:56 back to this original posting: (with side bar) the nfl should of banned vick from ever playin again... sidebar the nba should of banned rodman from ever playin again after he kicked the photo guy jmo |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by babyhog on 12/28/10 at 16:56:39 Just saw part of a story about Squeaky Fromme on Entertainment Tonight. Not sure what it was all about, but they mentioned that she was released from prison last year after serving 34 years of a LIFE sentence. So why was it ok to let her out early? (She was serving life for attempting to assassinate President Ford) |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by mick on 12/28/10 at 17:52:22 7C737F757E7378747364717364160 wrote:
If you have spent time in Germany you should know that one German beer is equel to a six pack of bud or coors or any excuse for beer in this country,just maidens water. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by royblueboy on 12/28/10 at 20:46:00 I believe that vick has paid his dues. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/29/10 at 05:40:00 Mick - You're right on. That's why I'm not a beer drinker. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/10 at 05:52:55 There is an editorial in our local paper about the fact that sentencing a juvenile to life with no parole is the same as a death sentence, which you can't sentence a juvenile to death. It's going to bring up an interesting debate over the next couple years. Thumper; you're tough on people! Banned for life! |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/29/10 at 06:13:26 WM - I wish I were more of a pyschologist, but I'm not. I have seen juvenile offenders who are hardened beyond belief, and who have no normal senses of values or respect for others' life, property, or anything else. These youth live in their own world, and it's not a happy or productive place. They will kill someone just to get his jacket, bicycle, or even his basketball. On Monday, we had a car jacking here in Dublin, Ohio, an affluent suburb of Columbus. Yoiu can quickly and correctly presume who the bad guys were - a pair of 17 year old ghetto kids who kidnapped a couple from a shopping mall as they were about to get into their Lexus SUV. They made them drive to a wooded area several miles away. The bad guys got out first, and the husband saw a brief opportunity to escape - so he floored the gas pedal. One kid shot thru the rear window, hitting the wife in the head, killing her instantly. The shot was taken after the SUV had begun to speed away, so the shooter knew that he was only killing someone for getting away. What do we do with such a kid? There is no doubt in my mind that prison probably only makes these offenders into worse persons, not better. Yet, what do you do with a 17 year old kid who has eyes of steel, and who will look at you with a blank stare? So what do we do with them? We can't spend inordinate amounts trying pyschological treament on a one-on-one basis - we would have to hire as many shrinks as there are inmates. I do believe that there are a few people who are no more than rabid animals, who need to be dealt with accordingly - locked up forever. While at the same time there are those who present little to no threat of repeating their criminal conduct and don't need to stay in jail until they are elderly. The problem is identifying the two groups, and then, politically, having the guts to act accordingly, and deal with them differently. Not an esay task. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/10 at 07:26:31 Jerry; I have no idea what to do. (I'd say pray, but Mick will jump all over that....!) Last night, I met some people I worked with 10 years ago. One woman who worked for me, her son was just sentenced to 14 years. She didn't go into specifics. He'll be 33 when he gets out. What's he going to do then? She said he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. True? I don't know. She is divorced and raised two kids mostly by herself. Went to night school, got business degree and is close to finishing her Masters. Would having a decent father around all those years changed things for that kid in a way having only a mother around could not? Yes, I think more than anything else, two parents are the single biggest benefit to a child's success. That's not exactly man bites dog news however......... |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/29/10 at 07:53:07 WM - I agree wholeheartedly about the parenting issue. The high divorce rate, which leads to kids being raised, usually, by a single mom spells trouble ahead for many of them. I used to do a lot of domestic law practice - I did my best to get couples to reconcile, but most of the time, they were just too hung up with their own selfish wants and egos to care enough about the kids they brought into the world. Single parent households typically ( not always) are not very well off financially, so the kids suffer materially. Then if mom does go back to school, etc. like your friend did, she has even less time to be with the kids. Then, in their own minds, you'd be surprised how many kids wonder if they were the reason for the breakup of the family, leading to even less self esteem on the part of the kids. The effects go on and on. I firmly believe, in the absence of physical abuse, and maybe a couple of other similar reasons, that a couple with children should just suck it up and stay together until the kids are out of school, even if it means just being civil to each other and nothing more. But selfishness gets in the way of what's really important in life. I'd like to know how many kids in juvenile trouble with the law, or in jail, came from two parent households - my bet is very few - some, but very few. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/10 at 08:03:59 From a book I read: "Of all single mothers in America, only 6.5 percent of them are widows, 37.8 percent are divorced, and 41.3 percent gave birth out of wedlock. The 6.5 percent of single mothers whose husbands have died shouldn't be called 'single mothers' at all. We already have a word for them: 'widows.' Their children do just fine compared with the children of married parents." -- P.35 "Here is the lottery ticket that single mothers are handing their innocent children by choosing to raise them without fathers: Controlling for socioeconomic status, race, and place of residence, the strongest predictor of whether a person will end up in prison is that he was raised by a single parent. By 1996, 70 percent of inmates in state juvenile detention centers serving long-term sentences were raised by single mothers. Seventy-two percent of juvenile murderers and 60 percent of rapists come from single-mother homes. Seventy percent of teenage births, dropouts, suicides, runaways, juvenile delinquents, and child murderers involve children raised by single mothers. Girls raised without fathers are more sexually promiscuous and more likely to end up divorced. A 1990 study by the Progressive Policy Institute showed that after controlling for single motherhood, the difference between black and white crime rates disappeared. Various studies have come up with slightly different numbers, but all the figures are grim. According to the Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, children from single-parent families account for 63 percent of all youth suicides, 70 percent of all teenage pregnancies, 71 percent of all adolescent chemical/substance abuse, 80 percent of all prison inmates, and 90 percent of all homeless and runaway children. A study cited in the Village Voice produced similar numbers. It found that children brought up in single-mother homes 'are five times more likely to commit suicide, nine times more likely to drop out of high school, 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances, 14 times more likely to commit rape (for the boys), 20 times more likely to end up in prison, and 32 times more likely to run away from home.' Single motherhood is like a farm team for future criminals and social outcasts. ....Many of these studies, for example, are from the 1990s, when the percentage of teenagers raised by single parents was lower than it is today. In 1990, 28 percent of children under eighteen were being raised in one-parent homes (mother or father), and 71 percent were being raised in two-parent homes. By 2005, more than one-third of all babies born in the United States were illegitimate. That's a lot of social problems coming. ...Imagine an America with 70 percent fewer juvenile delinquents, 70 percent fewer teenage births, 63 to 70 percent fewer teenage suicides, and 70 percent to 90 percent fewer runaways and you will appreciate what the sainted single mothers have accomplished." -- P.37-38 |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/29/10 at 08:45:09 WM - Your post revealed numbers that I had assumed were the case before I read the proof. Single mothers aren't necessarily all to blame - let's not forget the fathers who skirt their responsibility by leaving the family, or having the illegitimate child. In my former law firm, we have a very attractive young female lawyer who was raised by her father. Her mother deserted the family because she was young herself when she had her two children, decided that she had missed a lot of "fun" that most people have in their 20s, and just left her two kids for the husband to raise. She stayed in the same city, but did not communicate one bit with her children for NINE years. The young lawyer was married, but continually had affairs. Her husband was another lawyer, whom she had met in law school, and who was from a stellar family, and sure seemed like a first rate guy. Yet, out of a need to be loved, she falsely thought that she could satisfy that need by sleeping around. She finally left our firm, divorced her husband, and left the state. Her mother's actions probably destroyed what oterwise would have been a fine person. The young lawyer constantly thought, and said to me, that her mother deserted her and her brother, not just left her unhappy marriage, and if she and the brother hadn't been born so soon, that mother could have stuck out the marriage but just couldn't deal with having kids whe nshe was so young herself. Waht a way for a mother to screw up her child's brain. How can anyone be so selfish? In the same firm, we had a single black woman who was a secretary. I wouldn't call her overly attractive, but she was fairly nice looking, classy, and well dressed and fairly smart. One week it became obvious that she was pregnant. In talking to her, she told me the father was a nice guy who was employed in the computer industry, whom she had been dating for a few weeks, but she had no desire to be married to him, as she wasn't in love with him. When I asked her why she allowed herself to become pregnant, she told me that it was time for her to have a baby - she was in her late 20s, and didn't want to miss the chance to be a mother - that the father was smart and nice looking, so she thought he had the right makeup to be the father of her child. That's what a good part of what our society is dealing with. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by verslagen1 on 12/29/10 at 09:05:37 Heard on the news the other day, teenage preg's are down. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/10 at 09:08:18 I either thought of this myself or heard / read someone say if young black women would stop giving it up to 'players', it would force young black men to change their behavior (either consciously or subconsciously). I know for a fact I read a long essay a few years ago whose premise was the sexual revolution changed society because men were now able to get it and get it from the most desirable women by being hip and cool as opposed to being selected by women on the basis they were the most likely to be stable and able to provide for a family. Makes us sound an awful like animals, but I believe this premise is mostly true. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/10 at 09:09:20 Ver; i heard that too, but didn't read the whole article. is it the sheer number that's down or the %? |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/29/10 at 09:14:04 Vers - If they are, that's good news. But teenagers aren't the only ones raising kids alone. One of the reasons I gave up on doing a domestic practice is that I can't be a part of a team responsible for destroying familes. Where is there any satisfaction in doing that? Until more of us decide that we have a higher responsibility to others, especially to children we happen to spawn than we do to our own selfish wants, and carry out that responsibility by staying married to the other parent, things won't change much. I'm not optomistic, though that that will happen. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 12/29/10 at 09:30:00 WM - When I was in college in the 1960s, I had one sociology course in which we discussed the high rate of single parenting among the black community. Of course, this was only 100 years after the end of slavery, so say what, maybe 3 or 4 generations? The author of one of the texts we used in the course theorized that the high single mother % of black women had been caused by the practice in the days of slavery of selling women with children, while at the same time selling male slaves apart from their wives and kids. Much like the breeders of livestock still do today with horses - selling mares with a foal at side. This sounded reasonable at the time - during the slave days, black families' ties to each other in the south were very tenuous at best, with the males always being sold more often to buyers who took them away. Hence, this author's premise was that black folks simply got used to single motherhood as a normal way of life. Could be true, but I don't put much credence in the theory, especially today, 135 years after the end of slavery, and at least another generation of two has come and gone since the book was written. But of course we also know stellar black families who are as, if not more, devoted to each other than anyone else - so I don't think you can lump a class of people all together like this author did. Rather than accepting this author's theory, I think it has far more to do with economics and the higher poverty rate in the black community. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by mick on 12/29/10 at 10:34:07 Slavery might be over and done with ,but in my life time ,in the south blacks had to sit in the back of the bus , and had their own restrooms. the KKK was alive and well and hanging young black guys who maybe glanced at a pretty white girl. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by drharveys on 12/29/10 at 15:20:55 23272D253A262B2227232B374E0 wrote:
According to Douglas Blackmon (Atlanta Bureau Chief for the Wall Street Journal) slavery didn't really end until 1942. http://www.slaverybyanothername.com/ |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by WebsterMark on 12/29/10 at 15:52:23 I can find news/opinion pieces today still claiming slavery hasn't ended yet. Using the term slavery still exists today seems to me like comparing someone to Hitler. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by kimchris1 on 12/29/10 at 22:22:04 So just to get a handle on this thread. Did you all ever decide if Vick rode a motorcycle or not? :-? :-? kim |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by mick on 12/29/10 at 22:31:02 7D7F7B757E647F6527160 wrote:
I have no idea,but I do know he should have got the electric chair for hurting and sometimes killing dogs. I would pull the switch. |
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Title: Re: Does Michael Vick ride a motorcycle? Post by kimchris1 on 12/29/10 at 22:39:39 Mick I agree with you. I have always been a lover of pets. It made me sick when they showed those dogs being treated like that. I do hope he has learned his lesson. Yet how do we really know he did? I guess if he is never caught doing it again, one might sumise he learned from his mistake. Maybe if he had put his money and his spare time into inventing a new motorcycle or riding one himself, he may have not had the spare time to waste on something so horrid as animal abuse. |
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