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Message started by WebsterMark on 12/24/12 at 06:26:39

Title: In Hoc Anno Domini
Post by WebsterMark on 12/24/12 at 06:26:39

When Saul of Tarsus set out on his journey to Damascus, the whole of the known world lay in bondage. There was one state, and it was Rome. There was one master for it all, and he was Tiberius Caesar.
Everywhere there was civil order, for the arm of the Roman law was long. Everywhere there was stability, in government and in society, for the centurions saw that it was so.

But everywhere there was something else, too. There was oppression—for those who were not the friends of Tiberius Caesar. There was the tax gatherer to take the grain from the fields and the flax from the spindle to feed the legions or to fill the hungry treasury from which divine Caesar gave largess to the people. There was the impressor to find recruits for the circuses. There were executioners to quiet those whom the Emperor proscribed. What was a man for but to serve Caesar?

There was the persecution of men who dared think differently, who heard strange voices or read strange manuscripts. There was enslavement of men whose tribes came not from Rome, disdain for those who did not have the familiar visage. And most of all, there was everywhere a contempt for human life. What, to the strong, was one man more or less in a crowded world?

Then, of a sudden, there was a light in the world, and a man from Galilee saying, Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's.

And the voice from Galilee, which would defy Caesar, offered a new Kingdom in which each man could walk upright and bow to none but his God. Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. And he sent this gospel of the Kingdom of Man into the uttermost ends of the earth.

So the light came into the world and the men who lived in darkness were afraid, and they tried to lower a curtain so that man would still believe salvation lay with the leaders.

But it came to pass for a while in diverse places that the truth did set man free, although the men of darkness were offended and they tried to put out the light. The voice said, Haste ye. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you, for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

Along the road to Damascus the light shone brightly. But afterward Paul of Tarsus, too, was sore afraid. He feared that other Caesars, other prophets, might one day persuade men that man was nothing save a servant unto them, that men might yield up their birthright from God for pottage and walk no more in freedom.

Then might it come to pass that darkness would settle again over the lands and there would be a burning of books and men would think only of what they should eat and what they should wear, and would give heed only to new Caesars and to false prophets. Then might it come to pass that men would not look upward to see even a winter's star in the East, and once more, there would be no light at all in the darkness.

And so Paul, the apostle of the Son of Man, spoke to his brethren, the Galatians, the words he would have us remember afterward in each of the years of his Lord:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


from the Vermont Roysterand - 1949

Title: Re: In Hoc Anno Domini
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/12 at 07:25:43
Wow,, talk about a Hearken all ye kinda thing..

Thats the first thing I read today. & Aye Likedit.

Title: Re: In Hoc Anno Domini
Post by mpescatori on 12/27/12 at 08:29:37

112324353223340B27342D460 wrote:
When Saul of Tarsus set out on his journey to Damascus, the whole of the known world lay in bondage. There was one state, and it was Rome. There was one master for it all, and he was Tiberius Caesar.
Everywhere there was civil order, for the arm of the Roman law was long. Everywhere there was stability, in government and in society, for the centurions saw that it was so.

But everywhere there was something else, too. There was oppression—for those who were not the friends of Tiberius Caesar. There was the tax gatherer to take the grain from the fields and the flax from the spindle to feed the legions or to fill the hungry treasury from which divine Caesar gave largess to the people. There was the impressor to find recruits for the circuses. There were executioners to quiet those whom the Emperor proscribed. What was a man for but to serve Caesar?

There was the persecution of men who dared think differently, who heard strange voices or read strange manuscripts. There was enslavement of men whose tribes came not from Rome, disdain for those who did not have the familiar visage. And most of all, there was everywhere a contempt for human life. What, to the strong, was one man more or less in a crowded world?

Then, of a sudden, there was a light in the world, and a man from Galilee saying, Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's.

And the voice from Galilee, which would defy Caesar, offered a new Kingdom in which each man could walk upright and bow to none but his God. Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. And he sent this gospel of the Kingdom of Man into the uttermost ends of the earth.

So the light came into the world and the men who lived in darkness were afraid, and they tried to lower a curtain so that man would still believe salvation lay with the leaders.

But it came to pass for a while in diverse places that the truth did set man free, although the men of darkness were offended and they tried to put out the light. The voice said, Haste ye. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness come upon you, for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

Along the road to Damascus the light shone brightly. But afterward Paul of Tarsus, too, was sore afraid. He feared that other Caesars, other prophets, might one day persuade men that man was nothing save a servant unto them, that men might yield up their birthright from God for pottage and walk no more in freedom.

Then might it come to pass that darkness would settle again over the lands and there would be a burning of books and men would think only of what they should eat and what they should wear, and would give heed only to new Caesars and to false prophets. Then might it come to pass that men would not look upward to see even a winter's star in the East, and once more, there would be no light at all in the darkness.

And so Paul, the apostle of the Son of Man, spoke to his brethren, the Galatians, the words he would have us remember afterward in each of the years of his Lord:

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


from the Vermont Roysterand - 1949


As the cultural descendant of the cited Tiberius Caesar, I beg to differ.

First things first, the "known world" did NOT lay in bondage. The Roman Empire did rule over the Mediterranean Basin, but it did NOT rule over the Germanic Tribes east of the Rhine and north of the Danube, nor over the Slavic tribes east of the Dnepr and (again) Danube.

The Roman Empire did rule over Syria, but not any further east, so that Mesopotamia was a Persian province; nor any further east than halfway into Anatolia, so that the Armenians and Georgians (far more ancient than the Greeks) were fiercely independent.

The Roman Empire did rule over Egypt and Lybia (which was the name given to all the vast lands west of the Nile all the way to Morocco, known as the Atlas Mountains) but not further south, to the point that Ethiopia was independent, rich and... Jewish!  8-)

The Roman Empire did have traindg links with the Slavs in the Baltic (for amber and gold) with the East, through Persia, for silk, pepper and other spices, and for tar, which only the Persians had (short of what little was available along the ruins of Gomorra, but that's another story)

In fact, the Roman Empire knew about India and China and had diplomatic contact with them.

As for slavery, only two categories of people were sentenced to slavery: criminals found guilty after a trial, and people in debt, until their debt was paid through labor.
Please keep in mind the US themselves still use "Roman Law" and that is what they teach in Law School - a Judge's Sentences create precedents, remember?

As for taxes etc., there was never a more abundant and quieter time than the centuries of Pax Romana.

As for political dissent, one WAS allowed political dissent, as long as one agreed to a minute aspect of religious life: once every year, a sacrifice of thanks to the Emperor as the Keeper of Peace, Tranquiolity and Abundance (there was plenty of all three)
Christians were persecuted not because they were Christians, but because :
    1) They gathered in Catacombs, which were cemeteries with open tombs, to celebrate Mass with their own dead - this behaviour was a social hygenic NO-NO because it spread typhoid fever and he Pleague;
    2) They were the only religion to practice Communion in the style of eating of the body of Christ - a man; Egyptians practiced the same Communion, but ate of Osiris - a God, much easier to accept to the Romans. So the Early Christians were looked at with suspicion of ritual cannibalism;
    3) Christians refused the Caste system, which was one of the tenements of ALL ancient societies - so much it was retained by the Church once it gained power, let me assure you. To the Romans, to claim a slave has the same dignity as his Master is like claiming that a pedophile rapist deserves the same respect as a limbless war veteran... would you ? ::)

Saul of Tarsus was a Police Detective, THAT is why he was assigned to INVESTIGATE on the "Jeses Case" - and investigate he did, and we are all well informed of the outcome.

Ad for the (certainly respectable) Vermont Roysterand, I am sorry I have never heard of him, but I am certain he has little to add to what St.Augustine, St.Ambrose, St.Francis and St.Anthony have already produced.

Happy New Year, all, and remember, Jesus NEVER said "lead a sad life of repentance",
quite the opposite, in the Sermon of the Mount He said "Rejoice and be happy..." !!! (Mt 5:13)
and He also said  "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29)
Beatitude and happiness do not come from eternal sadness and misery but from the love within.
:-*

Title: Re: In Hoc Anno Domini
Post by WebsterMark on 12/27/12 at 10:51:16
oh Jesus H Christ......!

I give up.

Title: Re: In Hoc Anno Domini
Post by mpescatori on 12/28/12 at 01:09:51

172522333425320D21322B400 wrote:
oh Jesus H Christ......!

I give up.


Jesus never had a middle name...  ;)

Title: Re: In Hoc Anno Domini
Post by WebsterMark on 12/28/12 at 06:25:18
I promised Sew in a PM that'd I would type on here what I'd say if I were having these conversations in a bar. In this case, I'd give the bartender 'the look' and have him deliver my next drink at the end of the bar and I'd quietly move on down the line....

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