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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1360516569 Message started by Midnightrider on 02/10/13 at 09:16:09 |
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Title: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Midnightrider on 02/10/13 at 09:16:09 1. US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Several reports on gun ownership around the world clearly refute the assertion that the abundance of guns in the United States leads to a high rate of firearm homicides. Americans are the biggest gun owners by far, with an estimated 270 million civilian firearms, in addition to those used by law enforcement and the military. That’s according to the Small Arms Survey of 178 nations conducted by the Switzerland-based Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies. In sheer numbers of civilian firearms, the No. 2 nation, surprisingly, is India with 46 million, followed by China (40 million), Germany (25 million), Pakistan (18 million), and Mexico (15 million). The United States also leads in gun ownership rate, with about 88 firearms per 100 people, according to the most recent Small Arms Survey compiled in 2007. That is far ahead of No. 2 Yemen, which has 55 firearms per 100 people. Switzerland is third with 46 per 100 people, followed by Finland (45), Serbia (38), Cyprus (36), Saudi Arabia (35), and Iraq (34). But when it comes to the firearm homicide rate, the United States doesn’t even make the top 25. According to figures collected by the United Nations’ Office on Drugs and Crime through its annual crime survey, 9,146 Americans were victims of a firearm homicide in the most recent year. That translates to a rate of 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 population, only the 27th highest rate in the world. The highest rate by far can be found in Honduras, 68 homicides per 100,000, followed by El Salvador (40), Jamaica (39), Venezuela (38.9), Guatemala (34), and Colombia (27). For America’s neighbors, the rate in Mexico is 9.9 per 100,000, and in Canada, 0.5 per 100,000. It is interesting to note that not only does the United States have a relatively low homicide rate compared to its gun ownership rate, but Switzerland, which ranks third in the civilian gun ownership rate, has only the 46th highest homicide rate, and Finland, with the fourth highest ownership rate, is 63rd on the list. “The most obnoxious liberal talking points on guns involve the idea that guns, in and of themselves, cause gun violence,” writes CNS News commentator Stephen Gutowski. “In other words, more guns must mean more gun violence.” But in light of the ownership and homicide figures, he observes: “More guns do not, in fact, mean more gun violence. Guns can be, and commonly are, used in a responsible manner, especially here in the United States |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/10/13 at 12:48:45 I'm going to throw out some pure guesses, and that's all they are; guesses. Look at the high murder rates in Latin America, and the very low rates in Europe, Canada and the U.S. My guess is that it's a function of poverty, which usually goes along with a high crime rate. Switzerland, for example, has one of the highest standards of living in the world, along with some Scandanavian countries. No need to rob your neighbor, or even kill him to get something to eat. Then, or course, is the massive drug business in Latin America. They don't make much cocaine in Sweden or Switzerland. We know who it is in the U.S. who kills each other - poverty stricken areas. Until sometihng happens, and I don't know what, to turn Latin America around, nothing much will change, except I think the region will continue its slide into possible anarchy. They have the same, or more resources than the U.S. has ever had, but it's the people there - why don't they turn their lives around, get off of corruption and crime, and move forward positively? I wish I knew. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by bill67 on 02/10/13 at 13:50:39 88 to 100 guns for Americans means nothing,I have 15 my self a lot of Americans don't even have one gun.Guns kill.Thats why they use them for wars.Obama worked in the highest kill rate area in the USA,He knows far more whats best for us then anyone else.Use your own head and don't quote what you read somewhere.I am far more likely to get killed by a cop,In a crossfire,mistaken identity,Or killed in one of their high speed chases because some kid blew a stop sign. Than a crazy bad guy. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Midnightrider on 02/10/13 at 15:44:26 You're right Bill, it depends a lot on where you live. But I cant say whats right for you and your neigborhood no more than you or Obama can say whats right for me. Obama's family is protected, mine isnt and its my job to protect them. Since the goverment cant protect my family I dont need goverment interference on how to protect mine. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by mpescatori on 02/11/13 at 01:13:02 Until proven otherwise, more gun deaths are caused by apparently harmless, law-abiding citizens who had a shooting accident, or blew a fuse, than professional criminals and organized crime. With all the "mafia" woohoo that is thrown at me and at Italy, there are fewer deaths by mafia in Italy than robberies gone wrong in Central Park, NYC. Those statistics are just that, pure numbers. They are offensive to anyone who would use them to prove a point. One has six ( S I X !) times higher chances of being murdered in the US compared to Canada. THAT rings an alarm. To claim there are more guns/family in the Yemen, or in Switzerland, than elsewhere, is manipulative. The Yemen is in a state of civil unrest (PC for civil war) for the last 50 years, due to its strategic location and too many factions trying to obtain control with the "help" of powers, such as Egypt or the UK (why am I not surprised?) In the Yemen, and all of the Arabian peninsula, a man is a man when he owns three things: a knife, a horse and a rifle, acquired in that order. Sound familiar? Well, nobody is copying John Wayne, Arabs have been buying "Indian" guns (the Damask wound barrel is actually an ancient technique brought in from India) since the 1300's... even before gunpowder reached Europe. Switzerland has a regime of compulsory military service which has all able-bodied men to serve and keep their ordnance in the home - hence the high numbers. Jerry Eichenberger is spot on when he considers crime and poverty, but I'd like to pitch in another two cents' worth, your heritage. Not your "Minuteman heritage" - I sincerely doubt how many would qualify to serve in a citizens' militia - at least by Euripean standards - but your "winning the West" heritage, where wagon trains abounded and every man and his dog owned a firearm of some sort. Even today, I am certain it is much much easier to find a laid back, office worker own a gun of some kind in Denver, CO, Wichita or Omaha, than his counterpart in NYC, Philadelphia or Boston. It's dyed in the wool, a birthmark more than a right, to have one or more guns in the home. Just sayin' :) |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by LANCER on 02/11/13 at 03:49:54 5A47524454564358455E370 wrote:
Not so in the US; the vast majority of gun deaths are from gang/criminal activity, often involving drug use/sale. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by WebsterMark on 02/11/13 at 05:01:21 Until proven otherwise, more gun deaths are caused by apparently harmless, law-abiding citizens who had a shooting accident, or blew a fuse, than professional criminals and organized crime. Not correct. This is the type of nonsense that passes for news on the networks, but let's keep a slightly higher standard of truth shall we?.... One has six ( S I X !) times higher chances of being murdered in the US compared to Canada. THAT rings an alarm. That's like saying urban auto drivers have 6 times higher chance of an accident that rural drivers and then conclude rural drivers are safer. Not necessarily true. Canada has maybe three population centers similar in size to several dozen large population centers in the US. Plus these 3 Canadian cities do not have nearly the gang activity which is where the vast majority of murders occur. You are quite literally comparing apples to oranges. Again, it makes a nice toss away line on the nightly news or a good ‘fact’ Obama could throw out as reason to issue yet another edict, but there is little reality associated with it. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/11/13 at 08:29:49 Once more, I raise the question that no one has answered: Of all of the gun deaths in the U.S., how many are conected with the drug trade, drug use, or gang bangers shooting each other in turf wars? What groups of people engage in this activity? I don't you'll find any official numbers, as they wouldn't be politically correct to know and publish. I care only about the innocent, law abiding people who meet their demise at the business end of a gun, and my guess is that they are few indeed - to the rest, I say "good riddance". |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/13 at 11:53:52 484346461C1D2A0 wrote:
Obama worked in the highest kill rate area in the USA,He knows far more whats best for us then anyone else. First point you made, Correct you are. Second, again, pure foolishness.. Im guessing youre talking about his time in Chicago.. YOu know, one of the Strictest Gun Control Cities out there.. SOOO, by your own admission, Gun Control DOESnt work,, AS for Bammy "KNowing whats best for us"?? Youre outta your mind,,still. Ill keep my right to keep & bear arms, as any Free Man can & should, Whether or not you people ever learn to read the 2nd amendment has no bearing on the facts that it states. &. I dont care what anyone says, the Founding Fathers didnt write the first part to be some code for making 'The right of the people to keep & bear arms shall not be infringed" mean anything other than Just That. They had seen tyranny & they meant for the Citizens to be the Sovereigns NOT the government. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by bill67 on 02/11/13 at 12:04:28 How many more would be killed if there wasn't gun control in Chicago.The 2nd amendment allows ever one to have a musket. Thats what they were talking about then. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by bill67 on 02/11/13 at 12:34:37 Does anyone think their would be less killing in Chicago if they took off the gun control. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Midnightrider on 02/11/13 at 12:40:48 I do. No one in their right mind is gonna come after me if they know I'm armed and a proficient shooter. Drug gang punks are ruling the streets, see what happens if you start shooting back. Start killing them out, they'll get the message. Its a proven statistic gunfree zones have the most shootings. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/13 at 16:40:59 32393C3C6667500 wrote:
Ive posted this at least 6 times, so, Im not doin it again, BUT, IF you actually WANT some truth, go look at what happened in Florida. Tourists were being robbed at such a rate the rental companies stopped tagging their cars.. then they made it legal to defend yourself,, It all changed in a matter of months. You REally6 dont remember back in the car jacking days when they made carry legal? Car jacking came to a Halt.,. Look at the murder rate where guns are legal. Bill.. Why isnt it higher than Chicago? Do you ever even really think or are you just a drone? |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by mpescatori on 02/11/13 at 23:50:16 26393F3825221323132B39357E4C0 wrote:
Ive posted this at least 6 times, so, Im not doin it again, BUT, IF you actually WANT some truth, go look at what happened in Florida. Tourists were being robbed at such a rate the rental companies stopped tagging their cars.. then they made it legal to defend yourself,, It all changed in a matter of months. You REally6 dont remember back in the car jacking days when they made carry legal? Car jacking came to a Halt.,. Look at the murder rate where guns are legal. Bill.. Why isnt it higher than Chicago? Do you ever even really think or are you just a drone? [/quote] As an outside observer to these facts, and in polite reply to WebsterMark's sarcasm, I can only interpret those events as the Civil Authorities' incompetence, inefficiency or impotence against petty crime. Of course, Italy has its own problems with criminality, but there is a huge difference between organized crime and petty crime; the latter in uncontrollable, unpredictable and more difficult to trace and intercept. The first countermeasure to petty crime is presence, diffused, capillary presence of LEOs in the streets. Here in Italy LEOs never, ever go alone, there is no such thing as the one Deputy or Trooper alone in his cruiser; in Italy they always work in pairs (Police) or in threes (Carabinieri). This calls for higher numbers of LEOs on the payroll, but it also means that when, at any one time, a police cruiser arrives on the scene, there are two, three LEOs on site. So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that while Rome and Washington, D.C. have the same number of Police Officers, Rome has fewer Police cars; it works this way. Here in Rome, my wife is a doctor, and she works for the Local Health Service as a physician who does house calls to terminally ill patients. She works until 8, 9 p.m. Does she carry ? She could, by law she's entitled, she only has to fill in the paperwork. Does she carry ? There is no need to, the crime rate in Rome is so low, she will walk and drive all over town and when she's late my only worry is her dinner is getting cold. I personally believe it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, or any other source of Law; I personally believe it has to do with the inherent character of a People as a whole; some are more pacate and easy going, others are inherently more aggressive. As proof of what I'm saying, 15 years ago we lived in England and she worked at ER of the local hospital (Princess Margaret's in Swindon, Wiltshire, it's on Googlemaps) - and when she worked the "week of nights", a week long night shift, I was NOT happy. So, all in all, it's not about reading what's written in the 2nd Amendment, but what you DO with the right you are granted, and how you handle the responsibilities. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by WebsterMark on 02/12/13 at 05:03:19 polite reply to WebsterMark's sarcasm, I wasn't being sarcastic Mpes; i was pointing out you were tossing out numbers as facts which are not even close to being correct. Fact is; as Jerry pointed out elsewhere; remove the gang shootings and gun violence in the US drops to almost nothing. The girl in Chicago who was in Hopey's inauguration was killed by gang members mistaking her for another gang member who 'invaded their turf". Excuse me punk, but you don’t have a turf…. I’ve been to Italy twice and spent a day in Bergamo just walking around all day. Walked all the way down the hill because the tram was out of service and then roamed the town. Never felt unsafe at all. Why? Was it lack of guns? No. Honestly, and we all know this is the reason; almost everyone has the same color skin. Gun crime in the US is centered around inner city gangs which are chiefly populated by Black Americans. After years and years of immigration, we now have heavy Hispanic gangs as well. You’re right to a certain degree Mpes; the American culture is to blame. But the reality is, it’s the self-destructive nature of American Black culture that is at the heart of it. That’s why in my mind it was so disappointing for the majority of Hispanic voters to fall in step behind Obama and the Democrats. If they follow the lead of Black Americans and become comfortable with welfare and handouts, if they become comfortable with substandard living conditions; if they become comfortable with being told to accept their fate rather than pursue a better lifestyle, then the US is completely screwed. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/12/13 at 05:46:50 Oh yea, we are way better than all the 3rd, 4th and 5th world countries. So what is your point ? Yea we (The US) lead the world in people going nuts and shooting random people. In India - yea we do love our guns. BTW India's only individual olympic medals usually come in archery or shooting. Rifles are the weapon of choice there. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/12/13 at 07:02:24 Pesci says I personally believe it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, or any other source of Law; I personally believe it has to do with the inherent character of a People as a whole; some are more pacate and easy going, others are inherently more aggressive. As proof of what I'm saying, 15 years ago we lived in England and she worked at ER of the local hospital (Princess Margaret's in Swindon, Wiltshire, it's on Googlemaps) - and when she worked the "week of nights", a week long night shift, I was NOT happy. So, all in all, it's not about reading what's written in the 2nd Amendment, but what you DO with the right you are granted, and how you handle the responsibilities. I personally believe it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, or any other source of Law; I personally believe it has to do with the inherent character of a People as a whole; some are more pacate and easy going, others are inherently more aggressive. Society Has its ills. Oddly, as bad as it is with poverty & people not well & less hope for the future economically, political upheavals, etc., & as many more guns as there are now, Crime is Down,, by a lot, I am more than a little shocked at the decline in the moral fiber of America AND the decrease in crime. Also, the number of "Children" shot & killed is a lie. That stat is just a lie, because there is no section in that area of data for Drug Gang related. A good many "Children" are teenage boys I wouldnt want to be left alone in a room with, for fear of my life. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/12/13 at 08:17:44 504F494E53546555655D4F43083A0 wrote:
Yes and no ... to crime being down ... you see armed property crime is down ... and I dont even think its the result of guns at all ... remember in the 90's your car would get broken into for the stereo. The stereo had a removable face plate and a security lock code. You will remove it or you'd lock it or something like that ... else your car will be broken into and it will be stolen. Yea why is that ? Oh yea your car has a gun and it will shoot someone who breaks in ? hell no ... the bloody thing is worthless. Car stereos are 10 bucks on craigslist. No one is going to put in all the effort and run the risk for that. Anyway armed property based crime is down (as in someone breaks into your house/car to steal your stereo, cos its not lucrative. But random mass killings using guns are way up. The last few years it has been pushing 300 per year in 10 or so incidents per year. That is all due to the easy availability of guns and bullets. We are not trying to stop the former with gun or bullet control. We wont. We have reduced it via a reduction in market value of stolen property. The second category we can cut down by making bullets more $$$. No one is going to worry about dumping 300 bullets into a crowd when it costs them 20 bucks. If it was to cost $30,000 in cash, that will make a difference. BTW that wont violate the second amendment at all ... it says nothing about price. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Paraquat on 02/12/13 at 09:17:45 74756E6966736F070 wrote:
If you're going to dump 300 bullets into a crowd I don't think you care what your credit score looks like. I doubt you're saving up for an early retirement. --Steve |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/12/13 at 09:45:09 3203100313170316620 wrote:
If you're going to dump 300 bullets into a crowd I don't think you care what your credit score looks like. I doubt you're saving up for an early retirement. --Steve[/quote] No one said credit card ... cash, as in $ bills only, no check, no credit card, no cashiers check ... cash only. He he, I knew you guys weren't getting my point, I have been saying cash for the last few months, since I came up with that tax a bullet plan. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Serowbot on 02/12/13 at 09:55:17 If you look globally,.. our murder rate does look low... ... but if you look at countries that are are economically comparable,.. we have a murder rate 3 to 10 times worse than other countries... Do you really think the US murder rate should be similar to, the Palestinian Territories, Philippines, Peru, Uruguay, Albania, Lebanon, and Costa Rica?... That's not in the greatest company... but that's where we rank...:-?... We stand 78th... Count the number of countries below the 50th ranked, that you would feel comfortable taking your family on vacation... :-?... Quote:
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by WebsterMark on 02/12/13 at 10:16:54 But random mass killings using guns are way up. I'm not sure that's true. Myth: Mass shootings are on the rise. Reality: Over the past three decades, there has been an average of 20 mass shootings a year in the United States, each with at least four victims killed by gunfire. Occasionally, and mostly by sheer coincidence, several episodes have been clustered closely in time. Over all, however, there has not been an upward trajectory. To the contrary, the real growth has been in the style and pervasiveness of news-media coverage, thanks in large part to technological advances in reporting. James Alan Fox is the Lipman Family Professor of Criminology, Law, and Public Policy at Northeastern University. He has written 18 books, including his newest, "Violence and Security on Campus: From Preschool through College." |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by WebsterMark on 02/12/13 at 10:19:20 If you look globally,.. our murder rate does look low... ... but if you look at countries that are are economically comparable,.. we have a murder rate 3 to 10 times worse than other countries... there's a very easy and simple explanation why those numbers are what they are if you have the courage to face the truth. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Paraquat on 02/12/13 at 11:08:03 494853545B4E523A0 wrote:
If you're going to dump 300 bullets into a crowd I don't think you care what your credit score looks like. I doubt you're saving up for an early retirement. --Steve[/quote] No one said credit card ... cash, as in $ bills only, no check, no credit card, no cashiers check ... cash only. He he, I knew you guys weren't getting my point, I have been saying cash for the last few months, since I came up with that tax a bullet plan. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Never took a cash advance? Never lied to get a loan? Exaggerated on a car loan? --Steve |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/12/13 at 17:51:17 4475667565617560140 wrote:
If you're going to dump 300 bullets into a crowd I don't think you care what your credit score looks like. I doubt you're saving up for an early retirement. --Steve[/quote] No one said credit card ... cash, as in $ bills only, no check, no credit card, no cashiers check ... cash only. He he, I knew you guys weren't getting my point, I have been saying cash for the last few months, since I came up with that tax a bullet plan. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Never took a cash advance? Never lied to get a loan? Exaggerated on a car loan? --Steve [/quote] I've barely got enough credit to get a 30K cash advance and trust me people in my situation dont go nuts as often as the crackheads like the sandy hook guy did. Anyway I cant stop all of the crazies cos the NRA wont let me. We'd have to institute a huge level of checks and enforce them all, and have gun crime and use and other types of data all of which the NRA has blocked off to let all the complete evidence be allowed to suggest a theory ... all of that has been choked off by the NRA. I am just proposing what may choke the bullet supply to a trickle. I have no evidence this will work ... no one has it, its never been tried. Anything that has been tried the evidence and the studies on it have been blocked by the NRA. The NRA is a defacto arm of the gun companies. They wont let any evidence be collected on anything gun related. In the absence of any data, I can only suggest a starting point. Now after that is done, maybe we will see a drop in random crowd killings, but we may see a unacceptable decrease in self defence killings. You may see 300 murders drop to 100, but see a rise of 200 or whatever is unacceptable in the lack of self defense ... "like this guy was in my house and I wish I had had a gun" type ... Maybe then we have to change the $100 to $50 ... or work a different angle. We dont know, because we have not got access to the data cos NRA has blocked it ... So I'd say in the words inspired by my man Wayne LaPierre "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a $100 federal tax on each bullet to be paid in cash only". Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by mpescatori on 02/13/13 at 06:58:53 073532232435221D31223B500 wrote:
I had to highlight these two statements, because they deserve to be commented. 1. Webstermark, check my statements with post #20, check out the US and Italy, then ask yourself why I do not feel at risk walking the streets after dark. Indeed, you'd be surprised there's more traffic in Rome around midnight than there is at dinnertime ! Why ? Because people go out and enjoy themselves, that's why ! 2. Webstermark, if you only cared looking around yourself when in Bergamo, you'd have noticed political symbols in the shape of a green, six-pointed leaf all over the place http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Aaa79Dte_bw/Te9EDtm5Y9I/AAAAAAAAAFI/3AYWmSwqMWg/s1600/fiore+della+vita.jpg This symbol, once known as "the Flower of Life", was adopted by a far-right political party which has a territorial identity, more than a political identity: this land is my land and if you are an immigrant you don't belong here. By your (USA) terms, imagine living in NYC or Boston, and anybody coming from south of the Potomac being booed at, hissed at and (not so) politely invited to pack and leave and go home... We don't have blacks, true; we do have our more than fair share of Albanians, Rumanians, Moldovans, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Peruvians, Philipinos, not to mention Moroccans, Tunisians, Egyptians and now Kurds and Afghanis. Are they all criminals and terrorists ? No, most of them are starving desperadoes who'd rather enslave themselves to slave merchants and starve in Europe, than starve back home (and get shot at by drones). BUT there are criminals among themm, and guess what? You can't tell a southern Italian from a Tunisian or a Moroccan, any more than you can tell an illegal immigrant from Brazil... from Bill Cosby. So, IT IS about the overall character of a specific society. Call it culture, call it heritage, call it anthropological qualities, the result is the same. Italy, murder rate 1.2 (30th) U K , murder rate 2.1 (50th) U S A murder rate 5.6 (78th) H3LL !!! I'd be safer off living in Gaza !!! (74th with 4.0) :-/ PS You're welcome to come again and enjoy the night life in Rome ;) http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/08/05/travel/05globe-rome-river-nightlife/05globe-rome-river-nightlife-blog480.jpg |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/13/13 at 07:32:34 605255444352457A56455C370 wrote:
OK lets try this ... 20 killings with 4 per = 80. The last 3 years are 282 for 2012, 250 something in 2010 and 230 something in 2011. I'd call 80 -> 280 as an up - maybe James Alan Fox wont. Like I said, we need data, un blocked, un encumbered, un biased data. All else isn't gonna suggest a theory. Maybe he has data that we dont ... maybe he has a bias I dont ... maybe I have a bias he doesn't. Maybe he has a need to sell books that I dont. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Paraquat on 02/13/13 at 09:30:08 716C796F7F7D68736E751C0 wrote:
Looks lovely. I wonder how the purists would they treat someone like me? My grandfather was the last purebred Sicilian in my family. I still carry an obviously Italian name. --Steve |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/13/13 at 16:08:15 Im guessing its a mass shooting when one gang of drug thugs shoots up another gang,,& we arent Given that kinda data. That would make it too easy to see how much of a lie this whole Be Afraid, be very afraid push is. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/13/13 at 18:17:45 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
Yes, we aren't given that kind of data ... but guess who has blocked it ? The NRA ... sorry JOG, the information has been locked up by the NRA, worse yet, you can file a FOIA for it ... but no one will respond, the funding for it has been stripped by the NRA. OK lets see how it adds up, and why the NRA wants to block it. You know the mass shooting information ... that is in every news paper and you can just count for it, in fact that count is released by the govt and every city and state ... However, to start to separate the murders, accidents, the other crime and incidental murder, crime of passion, gang related and random killings ... you will need to get all the separate information collected and categorised ... Then when people start to see how small a number is that are defensible by you owning a gun (I would classify only the incidental murder - as in break in and murder cos you woke up and walked out and saw the criminal ...) the NRA will have no fear to pedal and hence wont sell more guns. Govts release all sorts of numbers. My local news every other day has shootings and other deaths ... including 3 from hypothermia few days ago ... the common man cant get information across the country ... the feds are the only ones that can ... and the NRA has blocked that. The NRA creates fear among the people that can be solved by owning a gun. Gun companies sell the guns to people. They then funnel part of their profits to the NRA. Ruger sold 1.2 million guns and they donated $1 per gun to the NRA. The NRA isn't interested in telling people this many people were killed in home invasions ... you'd easily see how small that is and realise you're buying a gun to defend yourself against a 1 in 12 trillion (or some such number) chance. They want you to be "protected" to the limit @ all times ... if you need 12 guns around your waist 6 in the car, 19 in your bedroom, 8 in your kitchen, 35 in your garage and 52 when you're in the bathroom ... just in case the "bad guy" comes up through the toilet ... who are they to say what you can and cant have ... The NRA is a used car salesman for new guns. Theu dont want to tell you how many of their guns kill some one not intended and how often they do it. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by WebsterMark on 02/13/13 at 18:44:33 BUT there are criminals among themm, and guess what? You can't tell a southern Italian from a Tunisian or a Moroccan, any more than you can tell an illegal immigrant from Brazil... from Bill Cosby. am I missing something or are you making my case? H3LL !!! I'd be safer off living in Gaza !!! (74th with 4.0 tell you what; let me remove the crime rates from 5 or 6 inner cities and recalcuate the numbers...... Again, the vast, vast majority of the US is as safe as anyplace else in the world. I'm in Omaha NE tonight, I could walk anywhere in the this town with no fear. I'll be in rural western Kansas tomorrow which might be half the size of Italy for all I know) and if I forgot to lock my car door, I wouldn't worry about it. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by Midnightrider on 02/13/13 at 20:10:58 You'll be safe in the midwest. They're people have high morals, they're loyal to their families and they carry loaded guns, but they're not going to shoot you with them. Have a good time. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by bill67 on 02/14/13 at 09:21:08 I would bet that less than .05% of the people in the Midwest carry guns. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/14/13 at 10:08:09 But the bad guys know they CAN & they dont know who is & who isnt. Take guns away from the People & the bad guys KNOW who is armed... No One,, |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by bill67 on 02/16/13 at 10:54:44 There's no one walking around armed in the Midwest.I guess thats why I'am dodging bullets every day. |
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Title: Re: US High in Gun Ownership, Low in Murder Rate Post by srinath on 02/17/13 at 08:23:33 2A2124247E7F480 wrote:
I know that's how you have had it happen ... but they may make an exception in webby's case ... BTW I also felt safe in the mid west ... cos I didn't see people for miles and miles ... mountain lions and deer and what ever, but since they dont try to pick your pocket ... Drop a few million nice people into a dump like NYC and you'd have the same people sticking each other with anything they get their hands on. Cool. Srinath. |
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