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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Dr. Ben Carson /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1361127223 Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/17/13 at 10:53:43 |
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Title: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/17/13 at 10:53:43 I presume some of you have heard of Dr. Ben Carson. There was a movie made of his life story, starring Cuba Gooding, Jr. as Dr. Carson, called "The Ben Carson Story". He is a black guy who grew up in poverty in Detroit in the home of a single mother. He has become probably the very best pediatric neurosurgeon in the world, now head of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins. At age 61, he has announced his retirement from medical practice. He gave the keynote address recently on the National Day of Prayer breakfast, with many notables, including Pres. Obama, in the audience. Dr. Carson has left the door open to entering political life. He is an ardent conservative - just the kind of guy we need who knows, first hand, how to improve the lot in life of those stuck in poverty. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/17/13 at 14:09:05 I have noticed that people from a certain background who have "made it" be the most critical of the others of the same background who seem to be circumventing the rules or struggling to do so ... The example I would use in my case ... I am an immigrant ... I have never been illegal and I have been a permanent resident since 2001 and a citizen since 09. I am of the belief that illegals need to be tossed out, they broke the rules ... rules I treated as gospel, had a bag packed and a full on departure plan in place ... as well as leaving the country one time. A situation I have noticed - Gynaecologists who are mothers tend to be the most dismissive of womens concerns when pregnanent ... sorta like, yea yea yea its all a big deal to you, like no one has ever been through it before ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/17/13 at 14:16:57 Srinath - Maybe you are right about those who have been thru something being dismissive of others facing the same thing. I gave up doing primary flight instruction years ago, because I became very impatient of students who didn't learn quickly. I remember sitting there, beside them, thinking to myself that this isn't rocket science, it's basically just learning how to operate a machine, and why couldn't they do it. I never said that to a student, but I thought it many times over. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by bill67 on 02/17/13 at 15:47:57 I think he lacks ethics,He got in the lime light and like Obama former pastor showed distaste,Thats the way I see it. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/17/13 at 16:01:46 Bill - What do you know about this man? From your comment, I think that you don't know much about him. Did you ever see the movie I mentioned? He is very ethical. He got in the limelight because he's the very best neurosurgeon in the world. He has been famous for decades, not just recently. I first read about his surgery skills probably 20 years ago. There are very few black men his age who ever even got into med school, let alone accomplish what he has done, included separating two twins who were conjoined at the head and had parts of their brains in common. They are now normal, healthy teenagers. This man is not one in a million - he is one in the whole world. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/13 at 19:25:54 Bill read the book,, he knows all about the guy, Srinath, you understand the Rules of Immigration,, good for you, great start. Understand the other rules & support them, |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by WebsterMark on 02/18/13 at 05:46:08 Jerry; Carson is screwed. He's a black conservative so he doesn't fit the mold the media has for black men. I'm guessing our friends Starlifter and Sew disagree with Carson. When we disagree with obama we are racist but when they disagree with Carson they are what?.... |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Pine on 02/18/13 at 14:11:05 4B4A5156594C50380 wrote:
I understand and accept this. As to Dr. Carson, I wish him well, though I have not studied the subject. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/18/13 at 15:17:15 504F494E53546555655D4F43083A0 wrote:
I do understand all the other rules and follow ... what exactly are you referring to ? Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/20/13 at 13:52:04 YOure not really able to grasp WHY the 2nd amendment exists, near as I can tell. Im having a hard time deciding where you are on the 4th amendment, |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by arteacher on 02/20/13 at 15:15:44 Boy..... you guys will argue about ANYTHING! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by 12Bravo on 02/20/13 at 15:42:51 544B4D4A5750615161594B470C3E0 wrote:
I don't know where Srinath immigrated from. I do know that Europeans have a totally different outlook on firearms than we do. I am a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment and think that people like Srinath should be politely educated on why the right to bear arms is so important to people here (along will all of our rights/freedoms). Instead of making enemies, try educating people. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/20/13 at 16:56:22 OOOO the republicons want to educate me about the 2nd amendment ... isn't that touching ... You want to show me this interwebringthingamajig working as well .. I mean we have internet in our country, but it comes by donkey ... There is plenty of amendments that need to be thrown in the trash starting with the 14th. The 2nd not so clear cut, IMHO ... but it was written to help an armed citizenry defend the country and dissolution of the military during peace times, and to be armed to overthrow a tyrannical govt ... neither of which is ever going to happen. The govt has shredded the spine of the 2nd. Now the NRA is using it as a cover to cause fear and sell their product and help random people shoot each other ... Now after the many manuevers of the NRA, Owning a gun IMHO is an acknowledgement that you have been giving the NRA a blowjob ... much like smoking cigarettes was the perfect way to give RJR and Phillip Morris a blow job. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/20/13 at 17:35:15 Congratulations, you have the basic ideas, more so than many Born in America Americans. Now, whether or not Americans will ever be able to successfully throw off the tyrants is not reason to give up arms. If anything , its reason to prepare more. Your attitude may be 100% spot on, but theres no more sure way to lose a fight than tie ones hands behind the back.. so, disarming is stupid, even if being armed is futile., My owning a gun didnt put a dime in the NRA's pocket. Buying cigs, OTOH, did put$$ in someone elses pocket. Foolish as smoking may be, its not hurting you if I hurt me. It hurts me if you work to disarm me.,\\ |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by 12Bravo on 02/20/13 at 17:36:45 To each their own. I was actually trying to be polite and reasonable. I served my country to help protect everyone's rights. I won't try to deny anyone their rights or beliefs and all I ask in return is that they do the same. Srinath, your comments about the NRA are just about the same level as Starlifter saying that the NRA is a terrorist organization. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/20/13 at 18:00:51 The NRA publishes lies designed to cause fear in their target market, they are paid by the gun companies, the NRA publishes flawed data and inferences that extoll the virtues of their products block the full data and they get you to pay up for buying the products of their paymasters. Pretty clear to me what they are and what they think of their target market. You may not be paying dues to them ... they dont care, they get $ from the gun you just bought given to them by the company that made the gun, the dealer who sold you the gun and everyone else in that line. The NRA is like a motorcycle magazine that is run by the motorcycle company without having to tell you they are bought and paid for. Your subscription to the magazine dont make a scratch on their budget. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Midnightrider on 02/20/13 at 19:59:21 Many many thanks for your service Bravo! I dont always back what the wars are all about but I respect the courage and giving up good part of your life to show the rest of the world we can kick their a$$. God bless you. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by WebsterMark on 02/21/13 at 03:20:59 The govt has shredded the spine of the 2nd. Now the NRA is using it as a cover to cause fear and sell their product and help random people shoot each other ... Now after the many manuevers of the NRA, Owning a gun IMHO is an acknowledgement that you have been giving the NRA a blowjob ... Srinath; in my three years on and off this forum, you are easily the biggest fool ever to appear. On a board where we agree on very few things, I'm guessing that belief is nearly universal.... |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/21/13 at 07:07:44 Im still trying to figure out what the NRA sells other than membership. Owning a gun doesnt put a dime in their pocket. Im not a member. Id join Gun Owners of America instead. IMO the NRA is controlled opposition. Theyre NOT our friend. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/21/13 at 08:36:28 Why did the thread get hijacked by JOG to talk about guns again when I started it to talk about Dr. Carson? |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/21/13 at 17:30:57 0C3E39282F3E29163A29305B0 wrote:
Opinions opinions opinions ... everyone has 3-4000 ... NRA is a gun selling organisation ... look up their sources of $$$. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/21/13 at 17:37:10 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
Well if you have bought a bullet ... look up who made that, and look up contributions from that firm to NRA. OK Then I guess you should divide the purchase you made by the Yearly gross of that firm, and multiply the NRA contribution for that year from that firm by that fraction. Example - You bought bullets in 2012. You paid x. In 2012 their gross was y. They contributed a to the NRA. So a times x/y is your contribution to the NRA. The NRA nearly bankrupted smith and wesson for complying with gun control ... S&W after that sold to a private equity firm for 15 million. Dirt cheap. In terms of a savage, its like buying a perfect running savage with a thorn (NRA) sticking out of the seat for $150. They pay the NRA a bit of penance (oppose the gun laws) and it goes away ... and booya, $1500 bike. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/21/13 at 17:37:48 4649454F4449424E495E4B495E2C0 wrote:
I am sorry we sorta swirl to the drain ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Trippah on 02/26/13 at 20:23:07 Just watched about half of his speech before going shopping for bassanets and other neat baby stuff for a grandchild to be arriving in a few months. I think that, as he notes, he did have a caring mother. Obviously he was also gifted mentally. Probably he is in the top 10% of the Bell Curve for intelligence. THAT might have helped him make it out of poverty; but it does not mean the average guy /gal will make it. (without help). So while his story is moving and motivational, I am not convinced it applies to very many others. (Although Obama does come to mind). ;D |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Trippah on 02/26/13 at 20:28:37 As a second note, I agreee with the premise that we need to eliminate career welfare or in the British model generational welfare. People should be put on a national data base as they collect (any and all government benefits medicaid, welfare, ss, medicare and governmental payroll) and have maximum of 5 years unemployment benefits in a 65 year span..if they can't find work then they will have to move to where they can. :-? |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by houstonbofh on 02/26/13 at 20:37:24 07213A2323323B530 wrote:
I hate to tell you, but the average white person is not rich and wildly successful either. His point was valid, that anyone CAN be successful, not than anyone WILL. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by WebsterMark on 02/27/13 at 05:52:26 A famous economist wrote some wise words not long ago. Paraphrasing; it’s easy to escape poverty in the US… 1)Graduate from high school or get a GED. 2)Take a job; any job. 3)Get to work on time everyday and make it your goal to make your boss’s day easier 4)Stay out of the criminal justice system 5)Get married 6)Have children Do those things, and you will NEVER be poor in America. I think he's right. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Paraquat on 02/27/13 at 09:30:19 42455F595E454448454C422A0 wrote:
I hate to tell you, but the average white person is not rich and wildly successful either. His point was valid, that anyone CAN be successful, not than anyone WILL. [/quote] This is why I was dancing around the issue of class in the racist thread. The very idea you can start poor and end up rich solidifies the idea were exist in separate classes. One hundred years ago maybe you could move up, or down, in the ranks but it's become exponentially harder and harder to move upwards these days. It's no longer enough to graduate high school, college, and earn a fair wage. I fell victim to bureaucratic nonsense while I was attending college. If you care about the specifics it was little things. One example is that I took a 3 classes for 1 credit each called HTML Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced which was replaced with a single 3 credit class called Web Design. I fought tooth and nail and lost. My three classes became "electives" and didn't count towards my CIS degree. I've since enrolled into a General Studies degree and have been taking one or two classes a year trying to finish but it's tough out there. Enough crying. My point is that I started working right away. I learned a trade. I get paid what I think is a fair wage for what I am capable of and a decade's worth of knowledge. A friend of mine whines all the time on facebook about he has a degree in pharmaceutical something-er-other but the best job he was able to get not only paid half of what I earn, he was dispensing pills at CVS. Another friend of mine has 3x 2 year degrees and she barely got a job as what is basically a secretary. My girlfriend has a degree and when I met her she was working at Famous Footwear. She's been unemployed for a month now and finding work here is tough. I'm very fortunate to be where I am and earn what I earn but gone are the days when everyone can go to school, do good, and reap the rewards. Comfortably. This goes beyond "the cream rises to the top" and appears to be limited to an upper echelon only. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/27/13 at 12:15:31 Steve - Let me respectfully disagree. I have no idea what degree your GF has. Is it something useful, or something like a liberal arts degree with a major in French? My wife, way back in the 60s, got her first degree in liberal arts with a French major - she wasn't even eligible to be a school French teacher. At age 18, entering college, she had no clue, and her father didn't guide her properly. After getting married to me right after she graduated, she got some lessons in life. She went back and got another degree in accounting, then practiced at one of what was called the Big 8 accounting firms in those days, until she was expecting our daughter, and quit and stayed home for 13 years. Then, after being out of accounting for 13 years, and knowing that a lot had changed, especially in the tax area, she got her insurance license in 1992 and opened her own agency, which she still does today. If one gets a degree in social work, general studies, phys ed, or any of a dozen or more other useless majors, they better visit McDonald's if they want a job. There are some exceptions - my undergrad major was in history and political science - not really equipping me for a career other than teaching high school, which isn't bad in this day and age. But I knew that after college in the late 60s that I would have to do the Army thing for at least 2 years, and then I was headed to law school. My point is that all degrees aren't equal in the real world, especially when it comes to being equipped to earn a living. No, we won't all be Ben Carson, or Warren Buffett, but the proper education can be the difference that enables one to earn a nice living, if not riches. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by arteacher on 02/27/13 at 16:28:15 One of my pet peeves is that colleges and universities keep grinding out qualified people for whom there are no jobs. So you finish university with no job prospects in your field, wind up in retail or a fast food joint, with $10,000 of student loans to pay off. |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by LostArtist on 02/27/13 at 17:27:55 5F505C565D505B575047525047350 wrote:
that's what he does, be happy it was guns and not abortion |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by LostArtist on 02/27/13 at 17:37:53 5952525B5758594342360 wrote:
$10,000??? try $25,000 - $50,000 or more. I got an art degree and was VERY lucky to land a graphic artist position, starting at more than minimum wage but not real money or anything, then I went back to school to get more educated in web design and digital technology and I had two choices, spend $30-$40K on another BA degree but with updated choices or spend $15K on a graduate degree that would more or less teach me the same thing, I shoulda changed direction all together and did something more akin to computer programming, but I didn't, I did the master's degree, it's helping me get attention and interviews but with no real world experience it's still really hard to land a job. the problem with my master's degree is that it's too well rounded, I know a little about marketing, a little about computer programming, a little about project management and a concentration in graphic design which I now know is worthless. so I messed up again, I can still advance and get a better job, but it's going to be a hard trip, I've been looking for a year now, I've had maybe 20 interviews, no offers yet, hopefully that changes this week. I'm not expecting it though. when those loans come due I'm going to be hurting, I'll make it, but ouch. but honestly, any other job would be pretty disappointing to me. I might make more money but I probably would feel like a complete failure and killed myself long ago if I was an accountant or something. like I've said before, I'm learning to separate myself from my job, but it's hard when that's all you have |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by LostArtist on 02/27/13 at 17:40:09 2C2D36313E2B375F0 wrote:
this happens a lot, people think "well I did it, it's not that hard" but all people are different with different ability and strengths. Like republicans seem to think that everyone should start their own company for the experience at least so they can feel the pain of government taxes, but some people, me being one, would be aweful at running a business, I'm not a sales person and trust me, all owners of businesses are sales people at heart. people are egocentric, they think that their life experience is the one everyone else has too, which is why some arguments will never be able to be resolved |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by LostArtist on 02/27/13 at 18:00:07 sorry I got on a rant about myself there, i need something else to think about. sorry again :-? |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by Paraquat on 02/28/13 at 07:58:55 Jerry - I welcome disagreement. Otherwise I'd stay in the cafe. :D The friend I mentioned says: Associates in General Studies and Business Administration conc. Management. Has certs in Business Administration and, as she puts it, a "slew of industry specific certifications". She is a manufacturing engineer with 7 years engineering experience. The girlfriend has an Associates in General Studies and Science with a minor in Psych. She is a certified Pet Care technician. Now to be fair: http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/2013/02/rick_haglund_jobs_college_rece.html It's guy says an engineer earns 3.5 million over 40 years. That breaks down to ~75k a year. When I told my friend this she said that she is currently earning ~45k a year. That's a significant difference. My argument there is that you can't trust most of the statistics people are posting regarding wages. http://business.time.com/2012/04/17/here-we-go-again-is-college-worth-it/ Let's use old data first: 1 million more, over a life time, with a degree. Let's say you jump right in. You work 18 to 65 years of age. 47 years. 1000000/47 = 21k Assume gross because publications are more "kittens and rainbows" than "doom and gloom", tax that at 70%. 15k 15k. Against an average of 60k for student loans. I do believe that is a conservative value these days. Pay it back, keep on keepin' on. That's an extra half a mil over the remaining 40 years of your life. But then: Quote:
800000/47 = 17k Taxed. 12k. Against 60k in loans. You still come out ahead. Quote:
Blah blah, 6k, taxes 4k. Times the whole 47 years is 196k. Versus my conservative 60k you still come out ahead but it's only an extra 2k a year. Would it help? Absolutely. But someone at my level is close to the estimate assuming I had completed my degree. Now there is no financial benefit at the end of the road. Spend money now to make less income. It's not financially sound. All this is even assuming you'll be able to find that job and hold it for 47 years. But that's me. Go back into that article and it later mentions paying 200k for schooling. Compare that against the 196k more you'd make with the degree. Forgetting interest altogether you're losing money. It's no longer economically viable. I'm 30 and it's time to face facts: I'll never be a neonatal neurosurgeon. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Dr. Ben Carson Post by srinath on 02/28/13 at 08:12:36 Oooo I love this calculation ... that college education is supposedly worth 800k and you getting it for 60K is such a bargain ... OK lets try this ... In India I got a college degree for next to nothing, but lets say it was 10K for argument sake. Then some american company caught me and dragged me here and kept me trapped a few years while they got me a green card. So I'm paying 10k for 800K and the locals here pay 60K ... OK fine it doesn;t sound that bad, cos waiting for a green card is terrible, you lose say 10k per year of that process, I took nearly 8 years ... so it cost me 80K ... However I had no loans, I dunno is 70K up front worse than 80K over the first 8 years after you graduate ? 70K repayment = nearly 120K over 10 years even @ the low interest rates ... Of course you get some degree that is useless or flooded with grads you're never gonna make any $$$ so your 70K looks awfully high. Cool. Srinath. |
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