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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> How is gun powder made ? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1366031293 Message started by srinath on 04/15/13 at 06:08:13 |
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Title: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/15/13 at 06:08:13 Yes I have been told it is made with bat guano etc etc ... OK yes its made with guano, however, bullets use not gun powder, but smokeless gun powder. Using gun powder will in a few shots cover the shooter to the point where he cant see. Worse yet, it will leave tons of deposits in the gun and needs to be cleaned every few shots. Sooner with worse gun powder. Smokeless is going to not leave deposits, not have clouds of smoke preventing vision etc etc. OK so what's the big deal, its made with smokeless ... except, smokeless is made with not bat guano. Its not made with any animal excrement. It needs concentrated nitric acid which you soak in cotton, and go through a whole process. Nitric acid is already hard to find, its an industrial raw material, like sulphuric acid ... Not possible with guano without a full on chemical factory @ your disposal. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by WD on 04/15/13 at 15:51:01 Gun cotton? As in the middle propellant layer in heavy artillery and naval shells? Modern military/sporting small arms ammunition hasn't been nitrocellulose based in several decades... You can use a solution leached from bat guano to make actual gun powder... But why? All you need is sulfur (easy to get), salt peter (any drugstore, ask the pharmacist) and hardwood (preferably willow or alder) charcoal. Dirtier than smokeless? depends on the blend, the charcoal varietal used, and the grind of powder you shoot. FFFg burns pretty clean. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by houstonbofh on 04/15/13 at 16:40:30 Why are you asking us when you know everything? As too full labs, some people think you need a full lab to cook meth. Others improvise. http://www.sportsgrid.com/golf/golf-course-meth-lab-in-port-a-pott/ |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/15/13 at 17:10:01 7D7A6066617A7B777A737D150 wrote:
No one is asking you anything. It was just pointing out your "guano" doesn't hold up. I know better than to trust something anyone here says without confirming it via google. BTW JOG would love your meth lab analogy much like he loved mine ... and yes we'll improvise, and soon we'll have guns that explode with the second bullet. The first thing that will happen when we hit the $100 tax on bullets, we will have a run on guano. WD - what is used in bullet propellant, its gun cotton or something mixed with gun cotton, charcoal and sulphur. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 06:53:44 6172360 wrote:
That's the whole crux of that argument WD - I was saying when we hit bullets with a $100 per tax, we'd also restrict the components needed to make bullets. You wont be able to buy salt petre ... The response from rfw was that you use bat guano to make bullet propellant. I didn't get the time to research that so seriously till yesterday. So, I basically said, you can make gun powder that way, but gun powder isn't used in bullets - you can, but it will clog up the gun pretty fast. You cant rain down bullets cos after 3-4 the gun has to be cleaned. You need smokeless gun powder. OK to your point - My googling showed me bullets use smokeless gun powder as propellant. They said that is made by using 1-2 or 3 base - gun cotton, and nitro-glycerine etc etc. We choke off the supply of these - all of them are factory made, and we wont have bullets - well we can still fill em with gun powder harvested from urine - but you cant rain them cos they would burn dirty and you need to clean it out after 3-4. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by rfw2003 on 04/16/13 at 09:25:38 35342F2827322E460 wrote:
That's the whole crux of that argument WD - I was saying when we hit bullets with a $100 per tax, we'd also restrict the components needed to make bullets. You wont be able to buy salt petre ... The response from rfw was that you use bat guano to make bullet propellant. I didn't get the time to research that so seriously till yesterday. So, I basically said, you can make gun powder that way, but gun powder isn't used in bullets - you can, but it will clog up the gun pretty fast. You cant rain down bullets cos after 3-4 the gun has to be cleaned. You need smokeless gun powder. OK to your point - My googling showed me bullets use smokeless gun powder as propellant. They said that is made by using 1-2 or 3 base - gun cotton, and nitro-glycerine etc etc. We choke off the supply of these - all of them are factory made, and we wont have bullets - well we can still fill em with gun powder harvested from urine - but you cant rain them cos they would burn dirty and you need to clean it out after 3-4. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] I never said anything about using bat crap to make gun powder. I was talking about black powder and yes it does leave a mess in the gun unless you grind it up to a very fine powder like fffg type then it's pretty clean. black powder is just salt peter, sulphur and wood charcoal. All of which you can buy really easily, at least in my area. Heck the wood charcoal you can even make yourself. As far as making smokeless powders (btw they aren't really smokeless and they do leave a powder residue in the barrel just like fine black powder does) here is a site that describes what it takes to do it http://gunpowder-chem.wikispaces.com/Smokeless+Gunpowder+ R.F. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by houstonbofh on 04/16/13 at 11:28:34 61607B7C73667A120 wrote:
No one is asking you anything. It was just pointing out your "guano" doesn't hold up. I know better than to trust something anyone here says without confirming it via google.[/quote] Did you look at the title of your thread? Sure looks like a question to me... And you have yet to prove that Guano does not hold up. It is how you make saltpeter... And of course everything you find on google is true... Unless I find it, then you call it a biased source. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by oldNslow on 04/16/13 at 11:32:58 Biggest problem with Black Powder vs. smokeless is that the residue left in the gun from Black Powder absorbs moisture from the air and will cause rust in a matter of hours if not removed. A lot of the normal cleaning solvents used for modern firearms don't do a good job on Black powder residue either. Most of us that shoot Black powder firearms use hot soapy water,then plain hot water -then oil. You don't really have to clean a gun that only uses smokeless powder every time you shoot it. The powder residue won't harm anything till it builds up to the point that it starts to cause malfunctions. If you don't clean a Back powder gun pretty much as soon as you are done shooting it, you'll have a rusted up piece of junk in pretty short order. For hunters or re-enactors the smoke is not really an issue. That was only a problem in large military engagements with hundreds or thousands of people shooting at each other. After the first couple of volleys nobody could see a doggone thing. Inconvenient for the Generals trying to direct the battle, but not such a bad deal for the foot soildiers who were probably just fine with being invisible. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by Dane Allen on 04/16/13 at 11:39:34 Quote:
SWEET JESUS!!! I am suspending my ignore Srinath rule for a few minutes, I read one of his posts by accident and I remember why I started ignoring him in the first place. Everyone, please stop helping this guy make a fool of himself!!! Seriously, your idea is to outlaw Potassium Nitrate?? A naturally occuring byproduct of bats?? You are going to outlaw bats? What about corned beef that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about Sausage that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about Sensodyne Toothpaste that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about fertilizer that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about stump removal products that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about Potassium Nitrate made from other countries? What about rust inhibitors that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about the Gemasolar Thermosolar Plant that uses Potassium Nitrate? What about condensed aerosol fire suppression systems that uses Potassium Nitrate? You are going to outlaw charcoal too? Just outlaw trees, that's as good an idea as anything you have said. All this in an effort to strip citizens of their civil rights!! Because, we sure can trust the government to give back a bullet when we use a bullet to protect ourselves. Have you been to the DMV?? Unbelievable!!! I will be reading these forums much slower so as not to have foolishness accidentally come into contact with my retinas. The time it took to write this was not worth the effort of destroying this buffoonery. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 11:45:06 3E2A3B7E7C7C7F4C0 wrote:
Oooo OK so you're backing away form the bat crap now ... OK smart man. Your own link says this - The new smokeless gunpowder is composed of nitroglycerin to dissolve the nitrocellulose for a more powerful burst and are more stable which is called double base powder. The original smokeless gunpowder is called single-base powder. There is also a third type called triple-base powder which adds some nitroguandine to suppress the flash or burning gas coming from burning the powder None of those are in the realm of the home meth lab. And no RFW I am not saying your googling is bad - I just like to google things myself. OldNslow wrote: Biggest problem with Black Powder vs. smokeless is that the residue left in the gun from Black Powder absorbs moisture from the air and will cause rust in a matter of hours if not removed. That may be 1 problem, the second is the lack of muzzle velocity. Gun powder vs smokeless - from the link Rfw listed - Since his invention it has got ridden of the smoke cloud problem and is 3x more powerful than black powder Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by rfw2003 on 04/16/13 at 11:45:15 427C7D71637F7E100 wrote:
I clean my guns after every shooting session period, and if they go awhile without being shot I clean and re-oil every few months just to make sure I don't get any rust on them. Yes I do realize that black powder is hygroscopic but with the way I am about cleaning my firearms it wouldn't matter if I had to resort to using black powder as a charge instead of smokeless. And yes I know that black powder also has a lower power then smokeless as well, but for the most part in self defense it's fairly close counter so it wouldn't matter. R.F. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by rfw2003 on 04/16/13 at 11:55:24 71706B6C63766A020 wrote:
Srinath recheck all my posts, I never said anything about bat crap at all. So I'm not backing away from it because I never said anything about it period. Yes smokeless powder is out of the realm of alot of people to make, but there are those that can, I for one could easily set up a small lab to be able to make it. I have made gun cotton before just to play with. I have also made nitroglycerin before, but I was scared out of my mind during the whole process wondering if I was going to blow myself up. Just one of those things you do when you younger and not as wise I guess. I love all things that go boom, I just limit myself now to firearms and flash powder based explosives on a small scale, but bigger then cherry bombs and real M80's. I do have sources to get alot of the chemicals to make lots of stuff that is outlawed to get, it's not that hard to find them. You just have to know what your doing or your gonna have a really bad day. R.F. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 12:25:52 4D4A5056514A4B474A434D250 wrote:
And just how do you plan to regulate bat crap and sulfur? (Not to mention charcoal?)[/quote] Correct, not you, you were actively in that thread posting about McVeigh - but it was Houstonbofh. My apologies RFW. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 12:36:05 0D28272C0825252C27490 wrote:
Potassium nitrate is manufactured, in fact its not even made mainly from bat crap, it is mined. Potash mines - horrible - they cause sink holes. Bullets are loaded with nitrocellulose - not possible to make without a factory. Manufactured = controlled. The bloody ephedrine was out and we reined it back in. You can theorise what is this or that ... OK just dont say the govt wont work cos govt is inefficient. The DMV is bloody good @ charging people and handing out bits of paper. That was their main function. You call cops on a dead guy, they'd write you up a charge and they go to a judge on the spot - the judge decides if you get to stay home that day or get dragged to the police station. You may have to get the bullets back on your court date after your trial. Maybe you shot the cable guy. In which case you dont get bullets, you get 15 years. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by Dane Allen on 04/16/13 at 14:03:17 76627336343437040 wrote:
Srinath recheck all my posts, I never said anything about bat crap at all. So I'm not backing away from it because I never said anything about it period. Yes smokeless powder is out of the realm of alot of people to make, but there are those that can, I for one could easily set up a small lab to be able to make it. I have made gun cotton before just to play with. I have also made nitroglycerin before, but I was scared out of my mind during the whole process wondering if I was going to blow myself up. Just one of those things you do when you younger and not as wise I guess. I love all things that go boom, I just limit myself now to firearms and flash powder based explosives on a small scale, but bigger then cherry bombs and real M80's. I do have sources to get alot of the chemicals to make lots of stuff that is outlawed to get, it's not that hard to find them. You just have to know what your doing or your gonna have a really bad day. R.F.[/quote] Warning: The text below is solely for the consumption of those who are not impervious to logic and reason. If you are divorced from reality then the statements below will have been wasted on you. Here is an exerpt from wiki "From the end of World War I until today, practically all organic nitrates have been produced from nitric acid from the oxidation of ammonia in this way. Some sodium nitrate is still mined industrially. Almost all potassium nitrate, now used only as a fine chemical, is produced from basic potassium salts and nitric acid." Are we to believe that the government should outlaw nitric acid, potassium salts and ammonia so as not to create Potassium Nitrate so as not to create gun power all in an effort to strip Americans of their civil rights? What do we do with all the enemployed workers from all these industries that are now shut down? Oh, I know, they can go to other countires and make nitric acid, potassium salts and ammonia so as to create potassium nitrate so as to create gun powder to be sold on the American black market. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 16:25:48 Nitric acid is already pretty hard to get. Its an industrial chemical used to clean aluminum among other things, we will have to find a way to not choke it off, but restrict it from the garage bullet maker. If its shipped in, we can prevent it. or better yet, we can prevent it from even getting here. Other countries do it. I lived in India, till 1990 we could not get anything made outside India there. Industrial raw materials - same thing. The same thing happens with drugs - lots of countries in south america and other places make lots of it. Its not getting smuggled in via ships. It come via tunnels from mexico. Which will still be open for business, and they'd be bringing bullets ... I have already said that, they will bring in bullets instead of drugs, we just trade 1 problem for the other. Now drugs come in, and guns and ammo goes out, that tunnel gets used 2 X, instead we'd just see it used 1 time. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by rfw2003 on 04/16/13 at 16:50:39 2E2F34333C29355D0 wrote:
Nitric Acid is easy to get, it's all over Ebay and Amazon just to name a few online places that sell to the general public. There is a store less then an hour from me that sells it to the general public as well. So it's not as controlled as you think it is. R.F. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 16:53:44 2D39286D6F6F6C5F0 wrote:
Nitric Acid is easy to get, it's all over Ebay and Amazon just to name a few online places that sell to the general public. There is a store less then an hour from me that sells it to the general public as well. So it's not as controlled as you think it is. R.F.[/quote] Yes and so was ephedrine ... In fact look up a 1903 sears catalog, you could have bought heroin off the pages ... Mary jane is easy to grow ... it will grow in nearly all states. We still dont have people growing these ... OK we do, but they just smoke it and not cause the street to get flooded. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by rfw2003 on 04/16/13 at 17:02:27 2223383F302539510 wrote:
Nitric Acid is easy to get, it's all over Ebay and Amazon just to name a few online places that sell to the general public. There is a store less then an hour from me that sells it to the general public as well. So it's not as controlled as you think it is. R.F.[/quote] Yes and so was ephedrine ... In fact look up a 1903 sears catalog, you could have bought heroin off the pages ... Mary jane is easy to grow ... it will grow in nearly all states. We still dont have people growing these ... OK we do, but they just smoke it and not cause the street to get flooded. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] You just can't except the fact your wrong and just want to continue to argue the issue, by bringing up drugs now, which has nothing to do with gun powder at all. Hell I'm done with you on this stuff, you just can't seem to understand that nothing the government does will stop firearms and ammo from reaching those that want it period, and no it won't cost them a fortune. Good luck in your fantasy world man. R.F. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/16/13 at 17:06:19 You again are dodging the issue. Nitric acid may be easy to get now. heroin was easy to get 100 years ago. It dont mean it cant be choked off. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by houstonbofh on 04/16/13 at 23:57:10 Heroin is easy to get now. Your point? |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/17/13 at 05:24:34 7A7D6761667D7C707D747A120 wrote:
Heroin is also very expensive now. Sears catalog heroin was a pint sized or maybe even bigger bottle full for $1 (of course it was a 1903 $1). OK here is the best answer I got in a google - Several stores (including Sears and Roebuck) and catalogues sold heroin as a cough suppressant and alternative to morphine, though heroin is actually more dangerous. They sold a heroin syringe, two needles, and a carrying case for $1.50. Yea cough suppresant ... yup. I'd guess pint bottle - I have seen it in a antique shop framed if I recall a few years ago. Regulating and controlling it will cause a squeeze effect and drive up prices. The side effect is the fact its used in may many things while heroin is not. We'd just have to have factories that are legit get it and the ones that are not get choked out. The bullet makers will love this though ... they can make more $ off each bullet, and the govt makes tax $ off each sale to private individuals. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by houstonbofh on 04/17/13 at 20:48:21 35342F2827322E460 wrote:
Heroin is also very expensive now. Sears catalog heroin was a pint sized or maybe even bigger bottle full for $1 (of course it was a 1903 $1). OK here is the best answer I got in a google - Several stores (including Sears and Roebuck) and catalogues sold heroin as a cough suppressant and alternative to morphine, though heroin is actually more dangerous. They sold a heroin syringe, two needles, and a carrying case for $1.50. Yea cough suppresant ... yup. I'd guess pint bottle - I have seen it in a antique shop framed if I recall a few years ago. Regulating and controlling it will cause a squeeze effect and drive up prices. The side effect is the fact its used in may many things while heroin is not. We'd just have to have factories that are legit get it and the ones that are not get choked out. The bullet makers will love this though ... they can make more $ off each bullet, and the govt makes tax $ off each sale to private individuals. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] OK. Well $2 in 1903 is worth $39.50 now. http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php And Heroin on the street ranges from $5-$6 for a bag to $50 for a bundle. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_street_heroin_cost So, about the same. Again, your point? |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by Dane Allen on 04/17/13 at 21:35:17 5C5B4147405B5A565B525C340 wrote:
Heroin is also very expensive now. Sears catalog heroin was a pint sized or maybe even bigger bottle full for $1 (of course it was a 1903 $1). OK here is the best answer I got in a google - Several stores (including Sears and Roebuck) and catalogues sold heroin as a cough suppressant and alternative to morphine, though heroin is actually more dangerous. They sold a heroin syringe, two needles, and a carrying case for $1.50. Yea cough suppresant ... yup. I'd guess pint bottle - I have seen it in a antique shop framed if I recall a few years ago. Regulating and controlling it will cause a squeeze effect and drive up prices. The side effect is the fact its used in may many things while heroin is not. We'd just have to have factories that are legit get it and the ones that are not get choked out. The bullet makers will love this though ... they can make more $ off each bullet, and the govt makes tax $ off each sale to private individuals. Cool. Srinath. [/quote] OK. Well $2 in 1903 is worth $39.50 now. http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php And Heroin on the street ranges from $5-$6 for a bag to $50 for a bundle. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_street_heroin_cost So, about the same. Again, your point?[/quote] He never has one and now that you have brought up tangible facts that interfere with his dream world he is going to go into deflect and tangent mode. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/18/13 at 05:50:36 Ooo Inflation calculator ... I love it. What did a TV cost in 1903 ? How about a computer ? and in 2013 ? Somethings cant be inflation calculated ... but I accept 39.50. And here is the misinformation dispersion - same link - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_street_heroin_cost But here is the complete text instead of the misleading bits you posted. Nah, homey. On the east coast 1 bag (or book) is supposed to be 1/10 of a gram, but usually nyc bags are about 40-60mgs. NJ bags are 5-6$ per bag and weigh a pathetic 20-40mgs if u r lucky. a bundle in nyc is about 90$, in NJ about $40-60. A brick is 5 bundles, and is usually the cost of 4 bundles (getting the 5th bundle free) next up is finger of raw then a sleeve In Newark, a bundle is around $60-$80 for quality stuff. Outside of Newark in smaller cities you can end up paying $10 straight through, no breakdown, maybe your guy will do 11 for $100 or 10 for $90. The cheap stuff is $50, meaning the garbage that is cut down so much that you can barely call it heroin. A single bag (.1g) can go between $6-10, but will go down the more you buy. A typical brick in Newark of the fire will be between $275-$300, $250 if you have the hook up. In the suburbs the price will rocket a $8 bag to about $15. Sometimes it's gone as high as $20-$25. "It's all about who you know." On the west coast in northern cali, its tar, which is about 20-40$ a gram, then 8 balls (3.5 g) for 80-120$, and ounzes (a sandwich size bag about an 1in thick) for about 400$ in the east bay. In LA and in mission district, they sell 10$ pea size amounts in balloons. if u buy 5, u get 1 free or something like that. You do know that 1903 heroin was straight pure liquid right ? You add enough baking powder to it, it can be a few tons and be pretty cheap right. And all of this is smuggled in from Mexico. The return trip they take guns and ammo and cash. We will simply make the bullets and guns come from mexico as well, we'd cut down the heroin inflow as well by imposing a bullet tax. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by houstonbofh on 04/18/13 at 20:26:13 70716A6D62776B030 wrote:
Not true. Heroin is a powder at room temperatures. It can be a suspension, but even in water that takes some heat. As a matter of fact, what you are probably mistakenly referring to is Laudanum, which was also known as "Tincture of Opium." By this time the relative strengths, both then and now, are impossible to guess. That is why both then and now so many people overdosed and the same amount they always take. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/18/13 at 20:42:05 This was a bottle looked like dark glass about the size of a robitussin bottle or more like that shape but may have been larger in the pic I saw. It was clearly written "heroin" on it. The rest of the writing neither could I read too well, not can I remember. I know this weakens my case - cos obviously its mixed into a suspension so not pure - but that was what I saw. This was "framed antique art" of sorts. It was under glass. Just a conversation piece and good for a laugh now. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by houstonbofh on 04/19/13 at 20:33:42 2D2C37303F2A365E0 wrote:
As long as it is a credible source... ::) |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/20/13 at 05:49:34 696E7472756E6F636E6769010 wrote:
As long as it is a credible source... ::)[/quote] Oh you can google that ... the 1903 sears catalog is a well documented item. Nothing unreliable about that. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by WD on 04/20/13 at 08:52:59 Heroin and other opiates are stored in dark containers for stability. And turn of the 20th century mail order was powder. In brown glass jars or bottles. There was a doctor's office on our property from before the War of Northern Aggression to sometime in the 1890s. We've dug up plenty of old drug vials here to see how products were packaged. Brown glass with a rubber lined metal cap. Have dug up opiate vials, arsenic and strychnine compounds, brass syringes, etc. |
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Title: Re: How is gun powder made ? Post by srinath on 04/20/13 at 09:39:03 Huh ... OK I assumed since it was like a robitussin bottle with that small mouth it was a pourable liquid. You do know you're helping the other side right ... much like I did when I assumed it was a suspension/syrup. Now we're back to pure heroin cheap in 1903 about $40 equivalent in 2013 ... and diluted one now for $50-100 ... So the supply side war on drugs is working ? atleast to send $$$ up. I dunno this thread has too many tentacles. Cool. Srinath. 7F6C280 wrote:
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