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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> What do you think? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1366559913 Message started by raydawg on 04/21/13 at 08:58:33 |
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Title: What do you think? Post by raydawg on 04/21/13 at 08:58:33 What transpired this last week in Boston affirms to me that mankind will surrender his freedom for a sense of security...... Surveillance is very easy to justify, doubly so with such a swift outcome, but what price are we willing to pay, for it? Evil will always be present with us, we can never avoid it, but I fear man thinks he can conquer it. Can you grasp smoke in your fist? Are we willing to go even further than gun registration, registering ourselves with a national identification mark to reign in those who capitalize on evil manifested? Would you surrender to the idea if we remove currency (and plastic money) from circulation on our bodies, banks, businesses, etc, we remove the temptation, and motivation, from thugs? By standardizing our identification globally, could it not be used for all commerce, and security (walking through randomly placed scanners in our daily lives) which would isolate those who would try and circumvent the system for ill gains, or.....???? Could a chip, and eye scan, solve most, if not all, fraud and abuses visited on us by those who bring evil intent into our lives? Does this give you any concern? |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by WD on 04/21/13 at 09:01:17 I'm still in awe at how like a Heinlein novel society has become already. It does not need to become more so. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Serowbot on 04/21/13 at 09:24:41 It is a bit creepy,... but, in a public place, where you have no expectation of privacy, I think it's just an extension of community awareness... ..(I try to avoid nose picking, and butt scratchin' out there anyway)... As far as ID's go... We mostly all do have Drivers licenses, and credit cards, by choice.... As an example of the public paranoia... many people block the plate number of their bike in online photo's... (I've done it myself a few times, but in other pic's I didn't, so that was useless on my part)... ... but,.. we ride around all day, with our plate showing anyway, so what's the point?... If someone with bad intentions wants to find you by your plate number,... a person in your town is much more dangerous than someone a thousand miles away... Personally,... I think cell phones are most dangerous monitoring devices... They can know everywhere you've been and everyone you've spoken to.. ... on the other hand,.. they can find you, if you need help... I guess we're just evolving into more public, social beings... :-?... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by raydawg on 04/21/13 at 09:32:57 3A2C3B263E2B263D490 wrote:
Um....your used evolving as an explanation, how so? |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/13 at 09:42:22 Boston if anything else should emphasize security is in the hands of the people, not law enforcement. Cameras don't provide security, they allow leo's to figure out who did what and bring them to justice. At best, computers can ID likely perp's and summon leo's to the area for additional surveillance. This would be of no help for 1st time lone wolf types. You already carry an ID chip... it's called a cell phone. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by verslagen1 on 04/21/13 at 09:57:02 5F495E435B4E43582C0 wrote:
the point is, on line, you brag about your bike/car/wateva, you've put this big buck mod on, (with our bike it would be solid gold engine covers) you don't want to tell anyone where it is. that's like hiding a wad of money under the front seat of your car vs. going on facebook and saying you got a wad of money in your pocket. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Serowbot on 04/21/13 at 10:09:29 594A524F4A5C4C2B0 wrote:
Um....your used evolving as an explanation, how so?[/quote] Just like we evolved from beings that could carry their lives on their backs,... to beings that need 3,000sqft of space to hold their stuff... ... and beings that lived their lives within 30 miles of their birth,... to beings that think nothing of going 50 miles for dinner,.. or a thousand to visit a friend, or take holiday... Expecting to be treated fairly is a relatively new concept, that we now, take for granted... We even have people that we consider friends here on this site,... ...that we've never met...:-?... And with all that,... we're still just monkeys in clothes... ;D... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by apache snow on 04/21/13 at 10:18:00 Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by raydawg on 04/21/13 at 10:34:54 485E49544C59544F3B0 wrote:
Um....your used evolving as an explanation, how so?[/quote] Just like we evolved from beings that could carry their lives on their backs,... to beings that need 3,000sqft of space to hold their stuff... ... and beings that lived their lives within 30 miles of their birth,... to beings that think nothing of going 50 miles for dinner,.. or a thousand to visit a friend, or take holiday... Expecting to be treated fairly is a relatively new concept, that we now, take for granted... We even have people that we consider friends here on this site,... ...that we've never met...:-?... And with all that,... we're still just monkeys in clothes... ;D... [/quote] Uh....in my case, speedo :-* |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by raydawg on 04/21/13 at 10:36:19 7E6D7A7B64696F6D6639080 wrote:
You're right in theory, but its the phone they identify, not the user. It could be stolen..... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by raydawg on 04/21/13 at 10:36:45 3A2B3A38333E2835342C5B0 wrote:
Thomas Jefferson? |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by apache snow on 04/21/13 at 10:41:21 Some say Ben Franklin but most likely Thomas Jefferson. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by oldNslow on 04/21/13 at 10:51:33 verslagen1 wrote: Quote:
I don't know if this is true or not, but I've been told that there is a backdoor built into the newest cell phones that allows law enforcement-gov. to actually turn them on remotely without the owner being aware, and use them them to listen in on conversations in the vicinity of the phone. A remote control bug of sorts. I know, and accept, that nothing I say online or on my phone is ever really private, but thinking that my phone could be spying on me when I think it's OFF is pretty creepy. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by WD on 04/21/13 at 11:11:14 That's why you pull the battery out when you don't need the phone. Or is that just me... I also do not (and will not) use text messaging, the internet over the cell system, instant messaging, etc. I find it truly amusing that the National Archives are preserving everything that goes through Twitter "for posterity"... ;D My wife mentioned it to me, I haven't looked it up since I don't care. If somebody is dumb enough to use it, and says something stupid, sucks for them... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by houstonbofh on 04/21/13 at 14:14:56 3127302D35202D36420 wrote:
But they are not just in public spaces... www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8 This stuff is scary. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by houstonbofh on 04/21/13 at 14:16:10 516F6E62706C6D030 wrote:
That may or may not be the case, especially with rooted phones running newer Android... But there are lots of cases of Cops getting OnStar turned on for them. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by v-pilot on 04/21/13 at 14:47:57 That may or may not be the case, especially with rooted phones running newer Android... But there are lots of cases of Cops getting OnStar turned on for them.[/quote] It's any vehicle that has that type of system. It can be used to disable the ignition system,thus stopping the car |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by jcstokes on 04/21/13 at 15:42:54 Privacy, like the Post Office, the Cheque, the book, music etc is one of the nine things that will disappear in our life time. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by old_rider on 04/21/13 at 20:18:38 The chip society would not actually take away any of your freedoms, unless it was abused by "big brother", which most folks would assume it would. Just think, if your child was missing, they could be located, it would become like the saying, if guns were outlawed only criminals would have guns to say if everyone where chipped only criminals would not. We already have so many cameras around the larger cities that almost every crime commited could be solved if there were enough manpower to go thru all the video. As far as cell phones being your tracking device...I have had the same phone number for about 5 years, I don't mind, i'm not a criminal, your phone number should be your social, keep it simple.... your social is your "federal id" therefor you are tracked in all your monetary transactions and state transactions, all your medical info, drivers info, insurance ect.... so why not do a chip/eyescan combo with say a changeable password by you? That way you would not have to carry cash, not have to carry any other form of ID. Would crime decrease? maybe a little, but criminal ID theft would probably rise. Who knows? untill we try it. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Dane Allen on 04/22/13 at 09:20:01 3B3C2620273C3D313C353B530 wrote:
But they are not just in public spaces... www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8 This stuff is scary.[/quote] Yeah, that is pretty bad. There should be lawsuits but I don't think Justice has a place in society any longer. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/22/13 at 10:15:59 That was just another "acclimation" for the people & practice for the "Boys" & it sets precedence. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Pine on 04/22/13 at 11:26:52 372637353E3325383921560 wrote:
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. This was written by Franklin, within quotation marks but is generally accepted as his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). A variant of this was published as: Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. This was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759); the book was published by Franklin; its author was Richard Jackson, but Franklin did claim responsibility for some small excerpts that were used in it. Cell phones work.. in of of themselves via triangluation, in order to connect to the most "powerful/nearest" cell tower. Thus a phone that is on is constantly attempting to connect to the cell network. ( You can prove this by taking a cell someplace with no cell access and watch as the battery drains in short order trying to connect). Therefore, yes, someone that walks around with a cell phone creates a history of every place they( with thier phone) have been. I am a firm believer in the quote above as attributed to Franklin. Further, it would be MY position that anyone advocating ANY diminishing of liberty in persuit of security does not have the best interest of the greater good at heart, but mearly thier own self interest. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Dane Allen on 04/22/13 at 11:33:19 5861666D7C677A080 wrote:
This is a fantastic point, that there are those who will "sacrafice" the rights of others for their own personal gain. Like the guy who doesn't own any guns advocating for gun control. It's a kind of hypocrisy, I think, |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Pine on 04/22/13 at 11:43:05 PS: I like this thread, though I would have thought it more correct for Tall table... still i posted this not long ago ( in tall table) : http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1366213621 So when it come to "money" or some aspects of it... already there is a mandate to break ranks with a government fiat.. for ???? not even sure what to call it.. other than "cryptocurrency". The world IS changing.... but is it for the better? I wish I could be on the side that thinks so, sadly I am not. But then I am an anglosaxon of european descent, gun toting, quinquagenarian libertarian biker.... who cares about me? I am the wrong demographic to be alive. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by WD on 04/22/13 at 13:51:23 Quote:
Hey, I don't hear any obligatory whitey guilt, revisionism or... or... ;D Try being in my shoes up here, I'm surrounded by the dregs of sub-humanity... too many Dems in west TN. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Serowbot on 04/22/13 at 22:21:59 Bloop!... Congratulations!... the last couple of posts just pushed it over the edge... You're in the TT now... Knock yerselve's out... ;D ;D ;D... For the record,... evolution,... for the past 3,000 years... has been driven by technology instead of biology... Even the forefathers understood this... although they couldn't possibly anticipate it... That's why they allowed for a little... flex... in the rulebook... Sometimes, I'm keeping up,... sometimes, I'm wearin' cement loafers... ... but,.. the wheels don't stop... ;)... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Jiggyfly on 04/22/13 at 22:55:44 2B2C3630372C2D212C252B430 wrote:
But they are not just in public spaces... www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8 This stuff is scary.[/quote] No, it's bullshit. I'm all for searches......but a simple knock on the door, "hey, how ya doin? Have you seen anything suspicious?" would suffice. No one in their right mind would've been harboring them, & you could tell if someone was distressed & forced to hide them. Complaints need to be filed on these illegal searches. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Serowbot on 04/22/13 at 23:16:37 55767878667973661F0 wrote:
This is the crux of the issue... The cops weren't just looking for the two guys that done it..., but, possible conspirators that were aiding, and harboring them... They were searching for people that weren't their right mind, and weren't on any list or street-cam printout... and were hoping for more destruction... Just sayin'... That search was ugly... but, it might, potentially have saved a lot of lives... In the cops defense.... they are acting on present knowledge... not with 20/20 hindsight... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Jiggyfly on 04/22/13 at 23:54:28 I "get it".......but do they really need to march women out at gunpoint? Some things just aren't necessary. (Side note: I'm a 100% gun advocate. If that crappity smacker would've been in my boat, that's where I would've had the barrel of my AR pointed while I called the police. Just killing him might enter my mind, but with the potential for intel....) |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Serowbot on 04/23/13 at 02:18:27 I get it... I have several guns myself... I admire their precision of build and accuracy,..and have the typical male..."cause and effect,.. at a distance" syndrome that effects most of us... (just a personal theory... we instinctively like things that have have effect at a safe distance... as a part of our defensive intuition)... ie,.. remotes, cell phones, guns, even internet communications... Let me point out,...that, as against chivalry as it may be... Women, can be as protective supporters of their loved ones, as males... even more so... Women, terrorists are no longer a hypothetical possibility... Personal defense,.. is not reasonable in circumstances that involve the safety of potential thousands of innocent people... We do, as a whole, give away that personal right and protection, in the best interest of our community... This is a new development, in the evolution of cultural attack... It must be accounted for... I'm not a total pacifist... and I have entered many situations with personal defense as a priority,... ...willing to use whatever means available without any concern for the opposition... ... but,... if the authorities are looking for mass murdering terrorist and his unknown cohorts... I understand, it isn't personal, and will cooperate... It is in my best interests, and that of my fellow neighbors... You can defend your life, personally, against an aggressor.... ... but, when it comes to the law.... you must acquiesce... and fight your battle in court... It is an agreement we make, in order to live in a civilized world... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by raydawg on 04/23/13 at 03:47:00 Reel her back in boys.....I'm not talking about open confrontation with any vested authority, as bot said, its the price we pay for living in a herd. We can change policy through the democratic process, but too many neglect it till it effects them directly. Lets keep the post to the technology advancements of societal, er...uh, evolution, odd way to view it bot, but I do see how the dots could be construed as such.... :-X I still marvel at Ben's wisdom of the problem way back then, and biblical speaking, the prophesiers are proving correct too, and such primitive beings if we consider our evolving to our current state of knowledge, or, self grandiose mentality 8-) |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by mpescatori on 04/23/13 at 05:33:59 310F0E02100C0D630 wrote:
Yes, sir, it IS true, I've done it myself at a Security Awareness Course, not for spying but to show what can be done. AND it wasn't even last week nor last month, it was 1999 and I was using a Motorola 8700... ::) It is done via the IMEI number, that is why in the military the INSIST you switch off your phone AND take out the battery BEFORE you enter a secure area. If I could do that in 1999, imagine what can be done 15 years later, with dual- and quad-core processors and 32 / 64GB RAM! Incidentally, I read somewhere tha an amateur iPhone programmer gave a demo on how you can hijack an airplane without even being on board... he targeted an airline flight simulator, of the kind used to train pilots, and successfully hijacked it !!! :o |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by WD on 04/23/13 at 07:48:05 Like I said, Heinlein novels have come to life in the real world. Throw a bit of McCaffrey's Powers That Be series in for "good" measure... We've become more "East Berlin" than the actual East Berlin ever was... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Dane Allen on 04/23/13 at 09:49:09 687B637E7B6D7D1A0 wrote:
Would I be within my right to carry a device that, if it existed, scrambled video feed in my location? Like a white noise generator used for sound... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Paraquat on 04/23/13 at 11:06:07 I doubt it. Cell phone jammers and license plate scanners are illegal (for civilians). --Steve |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Midnightrider on 04/23/13 at 13:08:08 I have a cheap cell phone but I don't even know where its at and I don't care. Its somewhere in this house with a dead battery and that's just fine with me.I've tried for months to get my wife to disconnect it. Life goes on just fine without it. If I have trouble there will be cellphones everywhere around me so whats the point? When I drive I like to be alone with my thoughts. If I wanna talk to someone I'll call em when I get home. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/23/13 at 21:03:36 I cant imagine being perpetually on a leash. Im NOT carryin a phone,,No,, well,, I WILL,, when Im riding,in a bag, behind me. Just so I can call if Im gtonna be gone longer than I said Id be. The girls worry so. But, just day to day life? I dont have one, Ill use the wifes if she just demands I have one with me, |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Starlifter on 04/24/13 at 17:48:52 Yes, I hate cell phones too. Half the people I know have disconnected their land lines and use only cell phones...I too carry one on longer rides (at the insistence of Ms.Starlifter). If it were up to me I'd run over the dam* thing with the lawn mower. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by srinath on 04/25/13 at 18:36:50 My cell phone has made me plenty of $$$ ... I set up so I'd get alerted if somethings like Mcintosh etc etc show up. About exactly a year ago I was doing something in the NC/VA border (100 mi north of home) sunday morning when a pair of 754's popped up 100 miles north in WV ... $400 for the pair. I emailed him my # within minutes, he called me ... I ran up paid for em and got em home. Earlier last month I sold 1 of those for 750. Still got the other one. I picked up a monster vintage rotel for $12 @ a goodwill that someone said they saw, and sold it a month later for over 200, I got several others ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Serowbot on 04/25/13 at 21:54:14 I bought a Tracphone pay as you go, about 2 years ago... ... and buy the minimum time I can to keep it active... I now have over 800 minutes and 2 months to use them up... In 2 years, I've talked less than 90 minutes... :-/... I can't decide whether to pay for another year and 400 more minutes... Buhuhhh... Srin,... what's a McIntosh, a 754, and a rotel?... Whatever they are... I need to find some... :-?... |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Dane Allen on 04/26/13 at 16:39:12 2C2D36313E2B375F0 wrote:
I sure hope you paid taxes on all that income. I am sure you wouldn't want to be known as a tax cheat who claims other people are tax cheats but without any evidence. It might hurt the thin credibility of your already wild accusations if it is known you are a hypocrite. I mean if you spent pages upon pages railing against someone who paid $3 million in taxes and you yourself evaded taxes on income then it may cause you some credibility gap... Just sayin'... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by srinath on 04/28/13 at 09:53:09 62474843674A4A4348260 wrote:
I sure hope you paid taxes on all that income. I am sure you wouldn't want to be known as a tax cheat who claims other people are tax cheats but without any evidence. It might hurt the thin credibility of your already wild accusations if it is known you are a hypocrite. I mean if you spent pages upon pages railing against someone who paid $3 million in taxes and you yourself evaded taxes on income then it may cause you some credibility gap... Just sayin'... ;D ;D ;D[/quote] Why do you think it takes me a month to do my taxes ? However I also have a huge stash ... I barely made a 1000 off audio last year. I did better in 11 - almost 2g. 12 was a fight to get a refund cos I had 1099 work and other loose income ... and my state refund was nearly 3 X federal ... strange ... never happened before. Dont worry, every penny is accounted for and paid. I got audited for 96 in 98 ... it was not a bad one as audits go ... but it was almost a 1 question audit related to a motorcycle accident and pay out which hadn't come in yet but the expenses had. I got the settlement in 99 - they were rather suspicious ... but I showed em the papers etc and they tossed me outta there. Serobot: Those are cool things that make noise. Good clean noise. People pay big $$ for those. There is a few more of these here lying around ... carver and this and that. Rotel isn't the fool proof deal McIntosh tends to be. All Mc gear tends to be uniformly very very good. I've got a few rotel dud's. 60 watters that have barely enough power to run my EV triaxials ... something an 18 watt old Harman kardon does with authority. And some rotels sound rather bass heavy ... Anyway if you dont know this you could get robbed blind ... I have picked up stuff for $20 worth 500 ... and paid 100's for $10 junk. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by bill67 on 05/01/13 at 12:01:38 507762716F6A65776671030 wrote:
I would like to thank the taxpayers here and my buddy Obama. I got a free cell phone and 250 minutes free a month, Its because I'm over 70 and Obama wants to take care of me. They called me a month ago about it and I said OK.I have to use it a least once a month are they take it back.Thanks Again. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by Dane Allen on 05/02/13 at 13:14:51 4A4144441E1F280 wrote:
I would like to thank the taxpayers here and my buddy Obama. I got a free cell phone and 250 minutes free a month, Its because I'm over 70 and Obama wants to take care of me. They called me a month ago about it and I said OK.I have to use it a least once a month are they take it back.Thanks Again. [/quote] Over $16 Trillion in national debt, $700 Billion taken from Medicare, high unemployment, Social Security is broke and the highest poverty rate since the 60's. Congratulations on your "free" phone. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by srinath on 05/02/13 at 14:05:53 Yea me too got a free phone ... I think its the Obama phone, only given out to people who voted for Obama ... Just like we only got good Obamacare ... And only we have jobs cos we voted for Obama ... Hey bill67, call me I'm Obama1281563847. Need to see if My Obama phone is the latest and greatest ... else I go down to the Obama center and get it refreshed. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: What do you think? Post by bill67 on 05/03/13 at 03:32:47 I got a palm,It takes pictures,texts,vibrates in my pocket,hooks to my cars Blue tooth.And a lot of other things I haven't' had a chance to use.or don't know how to use. |
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