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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Update: new clutch installed, fixed /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1377316690 Message started by Kizale on 08/23/13 at 20:58:10 |
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Title: Update: new clutch installed, fixed Post by Kizale on 08/23/13 at 20:58:10 Hello, newbie here looking for some help. I've been lurking on the site for a month or so doing research and ended up with an 03 savage 2 weeks ago as a first bike. I did some searching and could not much on my type of problem. I'll start with the history since it seems to be the first thing most ask when trying to help. It's an 03 3900 miles. First owner put most of the Milan's on then let it sit for a couple years. It was then purchased by a retired guy who buys and fixes bikes to flip them. He put in a battery, cleaned the Carb and got it running. He put about 60 miles on Inc delivering it to me and sold it. Since I had it I did a couple cosmetic things changed the oil/filter and air. I put it back together ran it about 25 miles went it quit on me. Ran great till I pulled from a stop light and it stalled a couple times when tring to take off, then all forward progress stopped. I had to tow it home. Engine runs fine, I can let the clutch out in gearand nothing like it's still in n. It shifts through the gears fine and the tension on the lever feels normal. The I used was Suzuki 4cycle I got from the dealer with the filters. Since the problem I changed the oil again with Mobil 1 v twin, old stuff mil key and nasty already also played the clutch adjustments and it made no diff. Checked the belts and pulleys on the other side and they looked OK. Tomorrow I'm going to pull the clutch cover off but I don't really know what I'm looking for. I can't believe the clutch plates would be smoked already, I hear they can take some abuse. I can upload pictures after I open up the case. Any help would be realty appreciated. I'm pretty bummed about getiing the bike and having it break first time out. I'll be around the forum going forward, thanks Ryan |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Rix on 08/23/13 at 22:18:20 May seem like a dumb question....Did you check the belt? |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by WD on 08/23/13 at 22:29:39 Left side of the bike, take the cheesy cover with 3 slots milled in it off. Take and post a pic before so much as thinking about taking the clutch cover off. Let's walk through the easier to inspect stuff first. Get us an overall pic and a detail pic where the shaft comes through the pulley, to start with. While the cover is off, push, pull and twist on the pulley and see if it is tight on the output shaft. Do that in N and in gear. Let us know the result. We can go into it deeper afterwards if necessary. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/24/13 at 10:37:20 I took the side cover off. Pulley seems to on tight and belt is snug around it, looks normal to me. I took the clutch cover off and things look ok so far. Should I pull the clutch out to look at the discs? It would be odd for them to be burn up with such low mileage, the bike even has the original tires still on it. Here are some pictures of the bike. Also I measured the chain tensioner at 15mm so I guess it's ok till next year. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131111.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131033.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131025.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131101-1.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131104.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131054.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131025.jpg |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/13 at 10:42:07 how far does the clutch rod stick out? |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/24/13 at 10:55:55 the rod sticking out of the center of the clutch basket? I measured it at 12mm. I noticed something else and maybe this will help diagnose the problem. With the motor full of oil I could roll the bike in gear with almost no resistance. I drained the oil and took the clutch cover off and now it has lots of resistance to the point it almost won't move. Like it was before the problem and I guess how it should be. I can rock it back in forth in 1st slightly and see the basket and gears rotate with the cover off. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/13 at 12:19:09 12mm ok your problem is either in the clutch or the drive pulley. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130824_131033.jpg sometimes the spline on the pulley wears till spins on the shaft with a clunking sound. having it work right with the cover off and slip when it's on would tend to say the rod was too long, but it's ok at 12. How much gap between the lever and the perch on the handlebars? |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/24/13 at 12:54:51 Not sure what you mean. I messed around with the adjustment both at the handlebars and down on the case as one of the first checks and got nowhere. Also I was not having any problems with clutch slip prior, it went from working fine to nothig pretty much all at once like somethig broke. The pulley would make sense to me even tho it looks ok, should I jack up the rear and spin it in gear or how should I check it? The fact that it locks up correctly with the cover off and oil out, what could that mean? Thanks in advance to all |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/24/13 at 16:25:31 the best I can tell the pulley and belt seem ok. I look close at the pulley and belt seem snug and to rotate fine. I pushed it around in neutral and there was not noise, or wobbles or anything I could find. I could be wrong of course but don't see anything at this point. One of the main symptoms was that I could roll it in gear with no resistance with the clutch out, as well as the no power in gear. Now that the linkage is disconnected, oil out and side cover off it seems to lock up fine. If I put it in first I can hardly move it and when I do I can see the basket and gears rotate like it locked up. It basically feels normal, like it did before if you parked it and put it in gear. Does anyone know what this could mean, should I be changing the discs, rods or any other suggestions? I seem to be narrowing in on the problem but don't know what to fix or replace to correct it. Thanks |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by mjs3790225 on 08/24/13 at 16:38:33 Take a picture of your clutch handle so we can see how much you've tightened/loosened the clutch cable. Also take a picture of the clutch adjustment screw on the bar going into the engine. Kind'a sounds like you have no slack in the line. Clutch lever on your handle bars should be loose, not locked up stiff with no play in it. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by mjs3790225 on 08/24/13 at 16:41:58 Mine clutch lever is way more loose than what I thought I needed at first. Loose like, 'holy dang, this can't be right,' but it is. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/13 at 16:59:24 couldn't find any better pics... this one is way looser than it should be, but you get the idea, pull on the lever just enough to take the slack out, should be at least an 1/8" gap, mine currently is about a 1/4" http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_174713_zpsc7627d85.jpg same thing for the clutch rod, push the lever up, if it goes higher than this, then you need a longer rod. http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172537_zps2ab6a8e3.jpg |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Digger on 08/24/13 at 21:28:19 Verslagen said: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ....same thing for the clutch rod, push the lever up, if it goes higher than this, then you need a longer rod. http://i1344.photobucket.com/albums/p641/onesinglespark85/20130702_172537_zps2ab6a8e3.jpg ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ver, I thought we agreed a few years ago that the datum line on that chrome clutch lever (shown above) ran along the bottom of said clutch lever, like shown in the two pics below: http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll291/thetoolswingguy/clutch3003.jpg http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll291/thetoolswingguy/clutch2002.jpg So, what is it? Does the datum line run along the bottom of the lever or does it run through the longitudinal center of said lever (as your pic inferred)? Jes' seekin' the truth here..... |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/13 at 22:58:39 regardless of what datum you use... this is bad... mmmk http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Medium_rod.JPG this is good... mmmk http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Long_rod1.JPG |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/13 at 01:47:44 Okay, you changed oil, then 25miles later,, she no go.. What kinda oil did you use? |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by WD on 08/25/13 at 08:31:01 Jog has a good point there, while the cover is off, flush the clutch out. Get the bike upright, I tend to use a cinder block and chunk of 2x12 under the engine, put a pan under the clutch basket, and hit it with a can of electrical cleaner (which will not eat the discs, unlike carb cleaner and some brake cleaners). Even if you put in the "wrong" oil, 25 miles isn't enough distance to hurt the clutch to the point of not working. Not really enough distance to induce even minor slipping... |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/25/13 at 09:40:29 I don't think oil has anything to do with it. There was Suzuki brand 4 cycle from the dealer in it when I had the problem. In the course of trying to fix it I changed to mobil 1 v-twin, made no diff. Updates: I put the side cover back on to see where I land on the index marks. I am actually below the lower one. There is just a slight amount of play but if I pull it up to the point of resistance and let go it sits right on the lower line. Does this mean I should change out the rod, if so with a longer or shorter one? I measured the one in there to be sticking out about 12mm. Or is this a sign of deeper problem with the clutch. Also with the side cover bolted back on and no oil in, it is able to be freely rolled in gear again which is not good. Here is a picture of where it sit on the index marks. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130825_121814.jpg |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/13 at 09:51:13 0527342F222B4E0 wrote:
Don't let go, pull up to take the slack out and that's where you compare the marks. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/25/13 at 09:58:55 What I mean to say is that I did pull it up and it sits right on the lower line. It has a little wiggle and I could push it below that but if I pull it up to take the slack out it will right on the lower line. Also with the cover back on it will roll in gear again. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/13 at 10:04:55 I think your clutch rod is too long |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/25/13 at 10:15:49 seems like it could be. I just wonder how it could go from working fine one minute to being to long and leaving me stranded the next. Could it indicate another problem inside. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/13 at 10:47:43 no, pretty sure it's an external problem ;D |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/26/13 at 15:29:21 I ordered a new set of rods, I'll give them a try tomorrow and let you know. I'm just worried that it has another issue. I just can get my head round how it could all the sudden be to long and leave me on the side of the road mid ride. |
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Title: Re: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/31/13 at 06:31:57 Update: I installed the 44mm rod from the kit I ordered. When I put the side cover back on it seemed to be working, would lock in gear and release when I pulled the lever. I put it all back together and started it, it had a nasty grinding noise coming from the clutch side area. I mess with the adjustment down at the lower lever coming out of the case. I had to turn it almost all the way up so there was almost no threads on the bottom below the lever and a ton on top. This made the noise stop and held the lever between the index marks so it looked good. I took it around the block and it will move under it's own power. As soon as you give it any gas it will slip completly and freely rev in gear with no more power to the wheel. I have longer rods but by my thinking it will make it worse, what should I do at this point? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Update: need clutch help please Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/13 at 07:08:10 You need to MEASURE the rod you are starting with, then put in the one that is slightly shorter. Obviously, the 44mm is too short. What length did you start with? =========================== "I had to turn it almost all the way up so there was almost no threads on the bottom below the lever and a ton on top. This made the noise stop and held the lever between the index marks so it looked good." Also, you apparently completely MISUNDERSTAND the rod adjustment steps -- it has nothing to do with where the lever goes when you pull on it with the clutch lever. Your helper people are showing you pictures with the clutch cable completely removed with A RUBBER BAND "pulling on it" and are discussing that, not what you do with the clutch cable and clutch lever in action. Once you get it right with the rubber band test, you are done -- forget about the clutch rods, your rod is right. After that, you adjust the clutch lever position using either the handle bar adjuster or the one over the lever -- you are seeking approximately 1/4 free space on ether side of the clutch engagement zone, 1/4 before it engages and 1/4 after it finishes engaging. You do this adjustment while the bike is rolling in gear with the engine at temperature, NEVER when it is sitting still. I leave the handlebar adjustment lock ring loose and adjust it finger tight until I get it right (takes several days to get it just so) then I lock it down with pliers so it will stay there. |
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Title: Re: Update: need clutch help please Post by Kizale on 08/31/13 at 13:30:02 I started with the stock 45 and tried all three at one point. The 46 I can't even close the side case. The 45 puts the lever below the lower mark disconnected with a slight push up. The bike will roll freely in gear. The 44 the one I had just tired with the last post is still below the mark. As stated I could adjust it up with tension on the cable it will move under it's own power but slip as soon as I give it any gas. In short none of the rods seem to fix the problem or put it in the correct position on the index. It seems to be agreed on this forum that you pretty much can wear out the disks and this bike has less the 4,000 miles. So as I was trying to say where to you go when the shortest rod is still below the mark and clutch still does not work. The problem started with the stock 45 and left me stranded on the road without being able to get any power to the wheel. It was out 12mm from the plate at the time |
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Title: Re: Updated: need clutch help please, still broken Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/13 at 13:47:02 Have you taken your clutch apart? (not necessary or recommended, btw) "It seems to be agreed on this forum that you pretty much can wear out the disks and this bike has less the 4,000 miles." This is not true, so far no one has ever worn their fiber plates to below Clymer's mininum spec thickness (remembering that Clymers table lists the single and multiple plate thicknesses ass-backwards in their little thickness table -- a known Clymers error). At 4,000 miles your fiber plates aren't even broken in well. |
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Title: Re: Updated: need clutch help please, still broken Post by Kizale on 09/01/13 at 17:40:34 Well I would say these plates are pretty much toast. If no one else has done it I guess I'll be the first. The inner most fiber plate looked ok the rest had no pads and much of the material was all over the basket. Old feller you're welcome to these if you want them. It would explain why the oil was so nasty when I drained it among the rest of the clutch problems. Any one care to speculate as to what could have happened to such a low mileage clutch. If you read the rest of the post you'll she it was owned by a lady who put most of them on then let it sit. I old guy fixed it up and sold it me, was running fine at the time. I does not appear to be beat on, motor runs good, looks really really nice outside. The cam tensioner is at 14mm I guess that could be high for the mileage. Still has original rear tire so no burnouts. Could she have been riding it for a long time, could it have dried out in storage and then came apart when put back into use. I do not think I did anything to it. Feel free to tell me should I get it running and sell it for another? Any suggestion on brand of clutch to buy, should I get springs too? just scuff and reuse the steel plates? Anything else to replace or do while I'm in there? I left the basket on at this point, is there a need to take it out or just slide the new plates in, I hear some pins and crap come out if I remove it. Thanks for the help, here are the pics... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130901_132602.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130901_134216.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/kizale/20130901_134240.jpg |
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Title: Re: Updated: need clutch help please, toast Post by Kizale on 09/01/13 at 17:49:19 Almost forgot one thing, the metal housing the cable is in came out the threaded part that you screw in and out on the handle bar. Is it just held in with tension or do I need to do something with it. If that doesn't make sense I can upload a pic. |
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Title: Re: Updated: need clutch help please, toast Post by Oldfeller on 09/01/13 at 18:15:50 Wow, very interesting pics. Congratulations, you are the first person to figure out how to turn their clutch fiber plates into (literally) ugly black pasty goo. Kinda scary, actually. Can you tell us what you used to do it? Be nice to know, so we can tell folks in the future what to avoid. Did you spray any "stuff" on it as per WD's advice ??? This might not have been the best thing to do to your fiber plates as when I sprayed brake parts cleaner on my clutch accidentally it slipped some for almost a week before settling in again. Remember, fiber plates are a pressed together composite of cork and hard fibers, held together with hard setting rubber type thermal compounds. You might well be able to dissolve the bonding agent if you start spraying large amounts of "stuff" on your clutch pack. Death by spray can .... need to add that to the list of clutch killers. :o Change your oil and oil filter -- you have all sorts of fiber stuff and rubberish stuff floating around in your oil and contaminating/blocking up you oil filter paper element. |
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Title: Re: Updated: need clutch help please, toast Post by Kizale on 09/01/13 at 18:24:08 Did not spray anything on it. This is the first time I had it apart. I spend the last week orso plays with rods and adjustments since everything I read said that is what it had to be. Oil has all been correct as far as I know. All of the history that I know is laid out in this thread. If anyone has any theroies considering I would be interested. Also advised on what to buy and where to go from here would be helpful, I think I can get by without removing the basket. Thanks for all the help. |
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Title: Re: Updated: need clutch help please, toast Post by Oldfeller on 09/01/13 at 18:30:14 Known things to watch out for If you removed your clutch basket, there is a flanged washer and a locking pin behind it all that provides driving purchase for your oil pump gear. Failure to put it all back together correctly will allow your oil pump gear to move laterally out of engagment, scrapping your engine due to no oil pressure. Next, there is a "big as the plates" thin ring like belleville washer (tilted washer) and some flat washers that pre-tension the clutch pack. Putting the tilted washer in wrong means it won't work right (causes an immediate need for tear down). Soak your plates for a day in the oil you are going to use. Read "Recommended Oils" since you currently aren't using any of them. Use a finishing sander to rough up your steel plates and get all the crap off of them. Medium coarse sand paper on the finishing sander, you will need at least several sheets as they like to tear up on you from all the sharp metal corners you go across. And no, you are not the first person to take their clutch apart, but you are certainly the most inventive to date, certainly that's fer shure. ;) |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Kizale on 09/01/13 at 18:43:08 Hmm that sounds like something I can handle. I did not notice those washers were different, I'll have to take a closer look. What order to they go it. I think I'll replace the spring while I'm at it, maybe an ebc set with the discs. Anything else? |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Oldfeller on 09/01/13 at 19:15:34 Dave went EBC about a year ago and had issues with being sent wrong springs -- he got it corrected but it was a delay in his engine build. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by verslagen1 on 09/01/13 at 20:22:29 If that black goo is all over your engine, you might want to split the case in order to clean out the oil pump. there's a fine screen on the pickup that might get clogged and do you in later. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/01/13 at 20:43:09 Id sure like to know what caused that |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Kizale on 09/02/13 at 06:25:49 ^ me too. If has me concerned as to how this bike was treated or if it was just a defect or fluke failure. Everything else looks nice just needs a set of tires due to age and inspection. Starts up easy and runs good, I'm worried about putting more money into itand being stuck with a lemon. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by raydawg on 09/02/13 at 06:56:18 Maybe the guy who restored it, after having sit so long, put something into the oil to clean up the effects from having set so long, you know, like the inspection cover was all black and you couldn't see through it, and he tried a homemade remedy? |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by WD on 09/02/13 at 07:34:36 That's why you don't Seafoam a wet clutch bike sump... too much can destroy the adhesive. How much is too much varies from plate to plate... I've cleaned dozens of clutch assemblies with electrical cleaner, never an issue. If you can find one, you want a kevlar or carbon clutch disc set. My clutch plates still look fine at 15 years old, so I still have the stock set in the bike. Order a new spring kit, preferably heavy duty. The only times I've seen clutch plates prematurely scoured that far were ALL due to weak springs. It happens, you can't check the spring rates w/o specialty tools that are needed so infrequently that they are considered a cost prohibitive luxury item. That is an impressive clutch failure... |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Kizale on 09/02/13 at 08:22:47 Thanks, I guess lol. That might make sense if the guy ran some chemicals through it instead of taking the Carb off. I'm going to order some new plates and springs. I guess I'll change the oil filter and flush the oil another time or too. Figures I would buy the one bike that explodes the clutch out of a group of what seems to be pretty reliable bikes. Any other tips , I laid the disks out in order and numbered them so I put them back correctly. I left the basket on so I don't have to worry about that issue. I need lot figure out the order of those washer rings I did not notice they were different when I pulled them. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by babyhog on 09/02/13 at 09:05:11 15mm sounds like alot on the tensioner for 3900 miles doesn't it? Could your speedo have been changed out to reflect a lower mileage bike? All the issues seem to me to point to alot more than 3900 miles worth. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Kizale on 09/02/13 at 09:48:03 I was thinking 14 seemed like a good bit. I suppose anything if possible but the mileage on the title transfers seemed to line up and seems like a lot to make a couple hundred bucks for a retiree flipping non running cars and bikes. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by oldNslow on 09/02/13 at 10:54:44 Quote:
I've not seen on here where anyone has looked at a new bike to see where the adjuster sits in a new engine so it's hard to say. I looked at mine with just under 10,00 and the adjuster was out 16mm, so 14mm might be perfectly normal for 3900. There is a chart on here somewhere that tracks when folks have checked/changed adjusters. The mileages are all over the place. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by ESLloyd on 09/02/13 at 16:45:13 I would install steels,fibers and springs.Change oil and filter and wash/rinse out base before reassembling.Change oil and filter again at 250/500 miles.Looks like clutch had zero clearance and overheated. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by ToesNose on 09/02/13 at 16:51:46 6446554E434A2F0 wrote:
For sure make sure you clean all that crud out.....sigh sorry that you have to go through such a pain :( |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/13 at 19:40:29 How much slack was in the clutch lever before the clutch bit th weenee? |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Oldfeller on 09/03/13 at 07:12:04 Turn to page 150 in Clymers, look at item 18 and 19. If one of your big thin "wave washers" isn't tilted (belvilled) or waved (as in waffle washer), then it has overheated, lost temper and failed (went flat) during your big slip event that destroyed your clutch. Or else the factory put in two flats instead of one flat and one waved. Wouldn't be the first time Suzuki screwed up at the factory ..... In any case, put it back together with the right parts. The wave washer has to push the clutch plate (20) out, so think about the orientation that makes that happen the absolute best. This counts more if yours is a tilted belville style washer more than the simpler waffle wave type that has been used in some year models. Turn to page 157, item #9 "Install the wave washer (figure 40) with the concave side facing outward." refers to the belville style washer. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Dave on 09/03/13 at 10:02:20 4E6D6567646D6D6473010 wrote:
Well.....I might be a bit late to this clutch party! I wasn't delayed getting my bike back together....but the EBC spings made the clutch slip. The parts that EBC has listed for our bike is wrong, and the springs they list are actually weaker than the stock ones....and the clutch slipped with even a light throttle. I took the cover off and put the stock springs back in.....and it worked. This wasn't all bad....it made me have to be gentle on the new piston and cylinder bore for a while! I contacted EBC and eventuallly they got me the right springs....but I am not sure they are convinced and changed their catalog yet. I have not installed the EBC springs as the stock ones are working fine. I can supply the correct numbers once I go home and check the numbers. I am not entirely sure what happened to the clutch in this topic. Kizale stalled and restarted and had trouble getting the bike going....then the trouble showed up. It may have been that the clutch damage was done in this one incident if the cltutch was abused....with our without the wrong oil or additives. The first photographs of the clutch don't seem to show the horrible burned plates that are seen in the photos after the clutch rod incident. (If I were to speculate........and please don't take offense Kizale as I am trying to help.....but do you know what a slipping cutch feels and sounds like? Is this our first bike.....are ou a new rider?) I might think that the clutch did not have adequate free play and the clutch slipped badly during the "stalliing in traffic" inciident.....and may have overheated the clutch and the damage begain. The damage was then completed after the "too long" rod was installed. Where do you live Kizale? There might be a forum member in that area that can help with the clutch repairs? |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Kizale on 09/03/13 at 15:14:14 I live in central pa. The bike was never run with a longer rod, it broke down with the stock one. I took it around the block with a shorter one in to test it and when that did not work I torn it down and found the condition of the plates. As far as the rings go do u mean to say the concave ring/ side facing out, followed by the flat, then the alternating disks. Ordered from furthest out to closest to the engine. Sorry I do not have a manual yet just got the bike, took it on one ride and this happened. |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Kizale on 09/03/13 at 15:16:39 Any other tips for getting it back together,I'll soak the disks first. Does anyone have torque specs? |
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Title: Re: Update: clutch destroyed, Theories n help welc Post by Oldfeller on 09/04/13 at 10:01:57 Don't you have a Clymers manual? |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/09/13 at 17:58:26 Still having problems unfortunately. I did get a clymers and new clutch parts. I used the steel discs from a forum member and new ebc discs. I installed everything according to what I read , everything fit together nice no leftover parts or anything silly.I connected the cable , filled it with oil and fired it up. The problem is it will not work when I pull the lever. It has good tension on it but would not go into gear. Shut it off and with the bike in gear and clutch in it will not roll. I took it apart again and reinstalled with the used stock discs I got along with the steels and same problem. I also checked everything when I did it again and with the same result I can rule out ebc disks as a problem. With the pressure plate off the clutch assembly(inner, disks and outer will move back and forth together in the clutch basket. With the springs and pressure plate on it is firmly held in place. The 45mm rod put the lever right in the middle of the index. Any suggestions on what to do from here? |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/13 at 19:48:12 The clutch lever feels right? Would not go into gear,, Grinding? Any noises? \Can you get it in gear, engine off? |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/10/13 at 07:02:16 The lever does feel fine. With the engine off i can get it into gear but I will no roll with the lever pulled in. With in running it just grinds if I try to get it into gear. It seems it like it will not disenguage, the rod is in and the 45 puts it right between the index marks like it should. |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by verslagen1 on 09/10/13 at 08:14:41 You may not have the wave washer and the flat washer correctly installed. |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/10/13 at 12:01:43 I installed with the flat washer on the out side and the wave on the inner. the smaller diameter facing the outside and against the flat one, bigger opening aginst the first disc. Correct? Any other sugestions? |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by verslagen1 on 09/10/13 at 13:27:56 the wave washer needs to be trapped between steel parts not sure what end goes out, so if it's not working for you... try the other way. |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/10/13 at 14:11:36 Hmm the way I read it in the book was (starting outside and moving in towards the engine) Hub/clutch sleeve, seat/flat washer, wave washer/concave washer, disk 1. At this point I'd be happy to be wrong and have it fix the problem. So are you saying the wave washer should be between steel parts meaning, Hub, followed by wave washer and then the seat/flat to the inside of it, basically sandwiching the wave? If so do you also know which way to face the wave, I guess I could be wrong on that too. I had hub, seat, wave, disc 1/larger disk. It was sitting on disk 1 like this / \ -------- Smaller part in on the hub larger opening on the disc, hope that makes sense, is hard to put into words. Another thing I noticed is with side cover on, no oil, not running it won't move in gear, with lever in it does not want to move but with a little push it will then break free and roll. Does it need to be broken in at all. I only let it run for a couple secs and when it grinded into gear I fearfully shut it down. So it seems to drag like either it's getting fully pushed out or it could need lube, the longer rod however pushed it out of spec on the index. Maybe with oil in and running for a couple it will loosen up, or maybe the wave washer issue will fix it. I hope so, I think the next set if this doesn't work is setting it on fire. Again thanks for all the help. :) |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by gizzo on 09/10/13 at 15:36:31 Maybe it's worth pulling out the clutch lever itself and having a look there? I know theres probably nothing wrong with only 3000m on board, and it looks ok in the picture, but you never know. Maybe thers a plastic bush or something in there that collapsed. The clutch on my DR250 was going the same way as yours and was down to the bolt hole in the lever elongating through wear. New lever fixed it. Taking up the slack in the hole used up too much cable travel for the clutch to fully let go. Just looked at my one, theres a plastic bush surrounding the cable nipple at the lever. Is yours still there? I'm clutching ( ;D) at straws, but maybe it's worth a look? Good luck anyway. Hope you get it sorted. |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/11/13 at 10:20:02 I'll flip the wave washer tonight and see what happens. According to the book it looks like the seat should be against the hub |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Dane Allen on 09/11/13 at 13:33:39 Make sure that rod is seated all the way, when we put in the new tensioner on my bike it did not fully seat into the clutch. Also, dare I ask, what oil are you using now? |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by engineer on 09/11/13 at 17:38:02 By the time you have this fixed you will be the resident clutch expert. It is only natural to focus on the clutch but you have tried just about everything and I am wondering if the problem could be somewhere else. Could something in the gear box have jammed up? This could account for the suddenness of the problem and the burning up of the previous clutch. Maybe you could take the spark plug out so the engine is easier to turn and put it into various gears and see how easily it turns. |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/14/13 at 11:57:42 Well she's up and running. I put 50 miles on today and it was all good. I put a couple on 2 nights ago after I got it running and came home to change the oil and filter for any clutch residue. There was some black goo on the filter. I ended up flipping the wave washer and installing the longer 46mm rod. It put me at the lower end on the index but within specs. When I started it and tried to put in into gear it did grind again. I thought I'm just going to give it a try and jammed it into gear. To my surprise once it got it it didn't learch forward and did n't grind anymore. So if anyone else rebuilds a clutch it may do the same until you get it lined up and into gear. It felt similar last week so I'm not sure if it was the wave or not but as long as it's running I'm happy. |
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Title: Re: Update: new clutch installed, still not workin Post by Kizale on 09/14/13 at 12:08:07 Almost forgot, thanks for all the help. |
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