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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New here with a few questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1429137899 Message started by Cronyschism on 04/15/15 at 15:44:59 |
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Title: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/15/15 at 15:44:59 Greetings all, Purchased a 2007 S40 (36,6xx miles) a few weeks back and discovered this wonderful site loaded with info. Anyhow, I've set forth to make necessary repairs prior to registering and insuring this bike. The main thing wrong with it from the beginning was the negation of any type of muffler; someone slipped on a straight pipe onto the existing factory pipe. Well, it was shooting out blue fire (noticeable at night) and it sounded like a handgun going off, not good at all. The idle was super low, too, I'm guessing 600-700 rpm and shot out black smoke when releasing the throttle. The night I picked the bike up, I added fresh gasoline and a small amount of seafoam to the mix; after about 3 minutes of riding the throttle response improved. First thing I did was pull the battery (13v disconnected) and placed it on my charger overnight (about 13.10v after a full charge). Pulled the air filter which appeared to be the stock pleated fabric element. It wasn't filthy but had alot of little yellow flowers from the Palo Verde tree. I blew compressed air through it and reinstalled. I managed to find a used factory muffler on ebay, removed the straight pipe and slipped on the new muffler. Sounds much better now. I also increased the base idle speed on the carburetor and it idled so much better; the crackling sound when the throttle was released was gone, however, the black smoke remains. Changed the oil with Red Line 10W40 full motorcycle synthetic. Couldn't find any ZDDP additive in town so I just went with the "overkill" oil. Had no choice to change the oil...it was blacker than the void of deep space and reeked of "well used oil" ha. So the next thing to do - shall I pull the carb and disassemble and clean? As a side note, I noticed the brass mixture idle plug is intact. Any thoughts? Also, after two weeks of searching the web, I managed to locate a pdf of the Clymer manual for 1986 - 2004; is the newer 1986 - 2012 that much different in terms of content? Is the factory shop manual any good? -Cronyschism |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Serowbot on 04/15/15 at 16:36:54 Welcome... Black smoke is fuel,.. so I'd pull the carb and clean... make sure everything is tight n' tidy... A Clymer's and this site is probably all you'll ever need. (see the Tech section here for info on Clymer errors)... |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Dave on 04/15/15 at 18:39:12 Black smoke.....when the throttle is closed....Have you pulled the vacuum line to the petcock to see if there is any fuel in it? There shouldn't be any fuel in the vacuum line that connects to the front of the carb...that is an indication the vacuum petcock diaphragm is leaking. That would allow you to learn what the Yamaha 660 Raptor petcock can do for you. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Rylee on 04/16/15 at 08:04:37 4355425F47525F44300 wrote:
Welcome to the site. I almost feel like a Clymers is only for diagrams. This site has been and will be way more informative when it comes to hands on issue experience. You'll find that with the majority of your potential issues there is a unified answer rather than needless suggestions. Everyone here has walked me through every issue I've had no matter how big or small. And unlike many forums member logevity and post counts actually mean something in here and you can generally take their advice to the bank. There's also quite a few members who've built there bikes from the ground up and sell the parts to help you do it as well. The tech section is by far the best I've seen on any site. And asking a question in here won't get 20 replies telling you your an idiot that should learn to search. It usually receives an immediate answer and/or a link to threads where that particular problem were addressed and eventually solved. Welcome aboard and good luck with your S40. 36k on an 07 is some good riding miles. Go thru her and do the obvious. A few things to look into while in the tech section. Raptor petcock (already mentioned) Cam chain tensioner (should be near the second time @ 36k) Brass plug (as you mentioned) White spacer mod |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/16/15 at 08:47:14 Thanks for the quick replies. Last night, I pulled the petcock vacuum line from the carburetor nipple end and inspected the hose - it was dry inside but the brass nipple seemed to have traces of old fuel - like sticky varnish. As suggested, I think it's time to pull the carburetor and do the usual cleaning and inspection procedure. The Mikuni carburetor seems to be very similar to the Keihin (Honda) type and I cleaned & rebuilt 4 of those last October so the memories are still fresh in my mind. On other thoughts, I'm going to pick up the Raptor petcock fairly soon - after reading the multitude of complaints and recommendations here, it's a no brainer. (Someone call me out if I'm wrong) So I take it this bike does fine with a simple gravity fed fuel system? While its a 652cc, this engine doesn't have the same demand as say, a 650cc inline 4 not to mention its a SOHC. Are the pickup tube filters on the Raptor enough microns or is an inline filter needed? And if the petcock is left to "on" for an extended period time, will the float needle (if its in good shape) prevent engine flooding? Thanks again for the responses. I have a bit of work to perform now. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Dave on 04/16/15 at 08:53:17 59687574636979727369771A0 wrote:
The stock petcock is not a "pump"....it has a diaghragm that allows gravity flow when the engine is running - it does not pump. The Raptor petcock is a manual version, and is also gravity flow like the stock vacuum operated petcock. You need to learn to shut it off when you park the bike for an extended period....not at every stop along the way. If you forget to shut it off and the needle and seat in the carb are not sealing well....you can have problems. If your fuel tank is clean, the stock fuel screens are adequate....I don't recommend that you run an inline filter as they can cause flow problems. Some folks get by running them - others don't and have had problems with the bike not running properly. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Serowbot on 04/16/15 at 08:53:34 Gravity flow from the Raptor is fine, as are the pick-up filters (in-line filters are more trouble than they are worth)... To be safe, the Raptor should be turned off... that said, I only turn mine off if I'm parking inside my shop... otherwise, it's on day and night... (call me crazy)... :-?... |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/27/15 at 14:03:29 A little update - drilled out the idle mixture plug, pulled the tank off and changed the spark plug. Old plug was black and sooty but not wet (plug was DP8EA-9) so I replaced with DPR8EA-9 for now. Started bike up and it ran so much better with a fresh plug in, yet black smoke from the exhaust remained while letting off the throttle so I decided to pull the carb. Once I removed the float bowl drain screw, brown stinky fluid began to flow. Definitely dirty inside. Additionally, the intake boot from the air box left a black smear of pasty dirt (see image). Going to have to clean the inside of the boots. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s125/poopubucket/2007%20Savage/carb01_zpsegh5oigf.jpg During the first step of disassembly, I ran into an issue - the screws holding on the vacuum cylinder were so horribly tight, that I stripped 3 of them, regardless of using a good quality and correct sized phillips head. Yeah --it's a big mistake on my end. So should I drill the screws out and if so, what drill bit size? Or is there another safe recommended method of removing the screws that are badly stripped? |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by gizzo on 04/27/15 at 14:33:54 I guess you mean the screws head stripped,not the thread? If it's the case, I usually have good luck with a good vise grip grabbing the head. Otherwise, I'll dremel a slot fora big flat screwdriver. Good luck. Yamalube carb dip for cleaning it is the shiz. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/27/15 at 14:38:09 Yes, the screw head stripped not the actual threads...never managed to even hear the "breaking" sound when the threads begin to loosen up. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/15 at 14:57:21 The factory uses near permanent thread locker. You should be able to break it free by grabbing the head with a small vice grip. You might consider applying heat to break down the thread locker. Or pen oil. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/27/15 at 15:11:42 Cool, I have vice grips, a heat gun and determination. I suppose if all else fails I can use my broken bolt extractors. I find it strange that all 4 of the float bowl screws were able to come free with little effort and no head stripping. Thanks for the tips! |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by jcstokes on 04/27/15 at 16:21:06 If you are going to buy a Raptor petcock, make sure you get the right size. I can't think of the correct part number off my head, but there will be a number of site members who can advise this. Don't be tempted into buying the cheapest thing on EBAY. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/27/15 at 16:34:47 Haha, thanks for the heads up; I've seen alot of import junk on ebay over the last few years when I first began riding and working on bikes. I believe the correct part number is 5LP-24500-01-00 |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/15 at 17:04:29 what size Philips did you decide was the proper fit? |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by KennyG on 04/27/15 at 17:31:30 I am sure I will be corrected, but here is the right way to remove carburetor screws that have factory thread locker on them: Buy yourself the smallest Weller Soldering Iron that you can find, I have the original SP23 version before the LEDs. http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP23L-Marksman-Lighted-Soldering/dp/B00018AR4A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430180441&sr=8-2&keywords=weller+sp23l One way or another make sure you have all of the gasoline removed from the carburetor, if not you may be a fatality. You place the point of the soldering iron in the JIS head of the screw, some may call it a Phillips head. Turn the heat on, if you can do without your head phones and anything loud for a few minutes, when the thread sealer melts you will hear it sizzle. STOP! Put your JIS screwdriver in the screw head and twist counter clockwise. If you have a small impact driver use it instead of the screwdriver. If you don't hear the it sizzle in a minute or two just assume your hearing is gone and that you missed hearing the sizzle. The screw will come out with head intact. If you have a source for Metric Stainless Steel Allen Head Machine Screws I would substitute them for the factory screws. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Kris01 on 04/27/15 at 17:36:11 JIS #2 screwdriver works well. I had to use an impact driver on one of my top bolts. I stripped it too. The float bowl screws came out with no problem. FWIW: http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Carb_Screws_Web_001.jpg |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by gizzo on 04/27/15 at 17:50:51 Doesn't hurt to give the screwdriver a whack with a hammer to help shock the screw loose, either. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Dave on 04/27/15 at 18:11:32 5F454143427C4D5E585E45484B492C0 wrote:
Don't whack it too hard. Several members have broken off a piece of the carb body that way. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 04/27/15 at 18:54:40 0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 wrote:
It appears as if a Phillips #2 fits well, but don't quote me on that! |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/15 at 19:09:12 Not even almost.. There is much for you to learn on this topic. I've typed it many times, options,opinions, it's a bit involved.. I'm just not able to type it again.. A special tip, I can't remember the name, I grind the#2Phillips,, it will work.. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Dave on 04/28/15 at 04:02:59 0D3C2120373D2D26273D234E0 wrote:
It appears as if a Phillips #2 fits well, but don't quote me on that![/quote] Japanese bikes use fasteners with JIS heads. Phillips screwdrivers just don't fit properly and they will remove screws that are not horribly tight OK - but if the fastener it tight the Phillips will either deform the screw head...or strip it out. If you are going to work on the motorcycle...buy a couple of JIS screwdrivers. http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/screwdriver-sets/900/kit/flypage.tpl.html And as Jog suggested....you can adapt a #2 Phillips by grinding a small amount off the tip so that the bit seats fully into the JIS fastener. Look at the photo below and you can see that the rounded corners of the Phillips screwdriver just don't fit well into the square corners of the JIS fastener. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Gary_in_NJ on 04/28/15 at 07:19:10 142538392E24343F3E243A570 wrote:
After you get the old screws out, replace them with cap screws. Much easier to remove. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/28/15 at 07:35:33 Once I got enough years of experience I stopped just jumping into things if I could schedule it. Penetrating oil, every day for a few days before,,, The right tools Technique Patience,, ugg, took years to develop.. crucial for minimizing damage.. Less damage equals, well, I don't have the patience to do the math for you.. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by KennyG on 04/28/15 at 07:37:34 Justin, You hit the nail on the head. I rest my case. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Art Webb on 04/28/15 at 21:28:25 Amazon also has JIS screwdrivers, too: you need #1, 2, and maybe 3 if you have any older Japanese bikes that use big honkin screws for the cases http://www.amazon.com/Hozan-JIS-4-JIS-Screwdriver-3rd/dp/B00A7WAHTU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1430281746&sr=8-1&keywords=jis+screw+drivers |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Kris01 on 04/29/15 at 18:13:36 445B5D5A4740714171495B571C2E0 wrote:
Patience? What's that? Know where I can get some? |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 05/04/15 at 09:55:53 Thanks everyone for all the awesome tip and tactics. I made sure the carb was completely dry before using my soldering iron to heat up the screws, it felt like I was holding it forever with no results. Next, I tried my ant death ray gun, aka heat gun, to no avail. Lastly, I went ape crap (in a positive way) and drilled out each of the screws with my cobalt bits and used my KD Tools shank-shape bolt extractors (I'm buying some JIS screwdrivers so it will never get to this extreme ever again) to remove each screw. That definitely took some time. Went to the mega sized Ace Hardware down the street and picked up Allen head screws as recommended. So the inside of the carb was pretty foul, the float bowl was riddled with this red beach sand grit, the vacuum cylinder diaphragm and cylinder were loaded with tar varnish and the spring was sticky like pancake syrup. When I removed the main jet (145), there was red sand underneath the o-ring, ughh. Oddly, nothing was clogged inside the main jet or pilot jet fittings, nor the top jets either. I noticed the needle seat contained a filter screen; never seen this before! So, is it safe to say all I need for a rebuild is just the basic kit that includes the float bowl gasket and the needle seat o-rings? Besides needing a deep cleaning and the brasso treatment, I don't see anything else that needs replacing, but you guys would know better. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Kris01 on 05/04/15 at 18:26:46 Yep, that should do it. Just give it a thorough cleaning while it's apart and replace the soft parts (gaskets, o-rings, etc.) as needed. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 05/26/15 at 12:32:02 Hi all, this is just my follow up post regarding the carb cleaning - I soaked all the parts in Berryman cold parts cleaner, hosed off with water, followed by immediately drying with compressed air. Some areas such as the transient enrichment valve cavity needed some extra cleaning as carbon and varnish was more prominent. Next, I assembled the unit with new parts from the kit along with the hex cap screws (so much better than those horrible factory fasteners) and reinstalled on the bike. I think the toughest part was reinstalling the throttle cable sleave into the bracket..took some finesse for sure. Cleaned the fuel tank with some acetone and compressed air and inspected the condition...no rust or debris. Installed the Yamaha petcock, installed tank on the bike and put in fresh fuel...it started right up. Had some black smoke in the beginning (after letting the throttle off) but after allowing it to warm up, I closed the choke and then turned the idle mixture screw ccw. Not only did the black smoke cease, but the idle seemed to have an overall even consistency. Thank you all for your help in making this a successful project. I'm quite pleased an alternative no-nonsense petcock exists ;) for this model and I've also learned a valuable lesson about JIS fasteners! |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Dave on 05/26/15 at 12:37:43 Glad it is running again. Now you need to develop a habit of turning the petcock off. I turn mine off on the way home at the intersection about a mile from my house....right after I cancel my turn signal. By the time I reach my driveway the bike is running out of fuel.....so it gets stored with very little fuel in the carb. |
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Title: Re: New here with a few questions Post by Cronyschism on 05/26/15 at 12:44:04 Nice trick and good point! I actually paid a visit to my garage this morning before leaving for work to check if I left it on..it was at the 9 'o clock position ;D |
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