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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Bout right..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1450973950 Message started by raydawg on 12/24/15 at 08:19:10 |
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Title: Bout right..... Post by raydawg on 12/24/15 at 08:19:10 This seems the most plausible explanation I have read about the current climate in the political spectrum/arena. Trump is just a candidate of timing, by design (of tapping into), or simple luck, gets credit for waking a lot of anger and frustration up. If you view the past election results from Obama's first election (people really were looking for hope and change), to his almost total destruction of his party..... Not by the repubs stellar campaigning or whole-hearty endorsements by folks, no, they are even more unpopular than Obama himself in polls, it is because they were against the politicking of Obama, more than they were for the repubs. This might explain the low democrat turn outs, etc, as well. I know many democrats, and what the left call "tea party", and the 20 percenters in the middle, who are sick and tired, of being sick and tired, and want a change of diet. Again, these folks might be on the opposite ends of the political spectrum, so they don't really share the same political ideologies, BUT, their sick and tiredness is driving their reasoning now. In your own life, have you ever been constantly lied to by someone, someone you cared about and shared concern for? A person can really only take so much until you have to do something that you would rather NOT do, but you must, for your own preservation. I believe this is where many folk are at. I still don't believe it will carry Donald to Pennsylvania Avenue, but it has changed the game. They can demagogue him all they want, but in the end they will be the one holding a buggy whip and wondering where all the buggies went. OH.....and MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL ;D The Limits of Fact-Checking Calling Trump (and others) out for their lies doesn’t seem to make a difference. What’s going on? By JACK SHAFER December 24, 2015 Of what use are all of journalism’s fact-checking operations? Don’t get me wrong. I’m a devoted fan of the truth, love reading corrections columns in the press and do not shy from revisionist history. So I endorse the good work done by all of the fact-checkers—the pioneers at Annenberg’s FactCheck.org (who invented the racket in 2003), the Tampa Bay Times’ Politifact, the Washington Post’s Fact Checker as well as the less frequent truth-squading efforts conducted by CBS News, Politico, the New York Times, The Associated Press, NPR and others, many of which fact check in real time during debates. Without the fact-checkers, the lying lies of politicians and others would go uncorrected and then where would we be? Well, we’d probably be right where we are, with one of the biggest documented liars in modern political times—Donald J. Trump—leading the Republican polls for the presidential nomination by a large margin. Story Continued Below That Trump fills the sky with lies cannot be denied. Last week, Politifact crowned him the winner of its 2015 Lie of the Year award, noting that the competition wasn’t even close. Of the 77 Trump statements Politifact checked, 76 percent were determined to fall in the lie category. Sixteen were deemed Pants on Fire!—the highest rating on Politifact’s sliding scale of fibs, far more than for any other candidate. The Post’s Fact Checker, which rates lies on a sliding scale of one to four Pinocchios, gave Trump 11 four-Pinocchio scores, many more than any other candidate. Meanwhile, Factcheck.org calls Trump the King of the Whoppers in its year-end tally. “In the 12 years of FactCheck.org’s existence, we’ve never seen his match,” the site proclaimed. It would stand to reason that the documentation of Trump’s lies—not to mention his rudeness and crudeness—would hobble his candidacy. Yet it appears to have had little to no effect. What to conclude from this? Perhaps that the fact-checkers don’t know what they’re writing about—which I reject—or that Trump supporters don’t know about the fact-checker’s findings, which seems wildly unlikely given the saturation coverage his lies have enjoyed. My guess is that Trump supporters don’t believe and just don't what the fact-checkers and just don’t care what the fact checkers say. How could Trump supporters not care!? Michael Kinsley got to this topic in a 2002 column about presidential deception. Lying rarely troubles a candidate’s conscience because he considers politics a game, not real life, Kinsley wrote. The distortions, misrepresentations and deceit a candidate sprays on his supporters are the political version of pillow talk, designed to seduce them into voting for him, not prepare them for a final exam on current events. Trump walks headlong into the fact-checkers’ band-saw knowing full well that they’ll use Nexis, digitized/searchable books, indexed news-video archives, social media and other resources to correct his false record. He doesn’t care because he knows his supporters understand the ritual and symbolic thrust of what he says. They don’t expect Trump to demonstrate any fealty to truth. (That’s Bernie Sanders’ role. His Politifact rating: zero “Pants on Fire!” and a mere 12 mostly false or false statements.) Trump’s message is more about a shared culture that, reduced to its essence, expresses a “throw the bums out” sentiment. He is their champion, even if he is a bit scrambled. Trump is not the first or only politician to exploit his supporters’ prejudices, only the most blatant. Not to place Trump in some false-equivalence duplex with Hillary Clinton, but his supporters aren’t the only ones to thrive in defiance of the truth. In the last Democratic Party debate, Clinton asserted without qualification that ISIL uses a video of Donald Trump as a recruiting tool. All the professional fact-checkers agree that there’s no evidence that any such videos exist. None. Trump responded by demanding an apology from Clinton, which is rich. “Hell no,” said Clinton’s spokesman. As if lifting a page from Trump’s “double-down on a lie” playbook, Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta defended the thrust of Clinton’s smear with multiple tweets. This leaves us in several awkward positions. Known liar Trump won’t correct his lies, no matter how big or how small, but he expects a wild lie about him uttered by Clinton to be righted immediately! Even Clinton’s most ardent supporters must understand that their candidate shot her mouth off big and owes the record a correction, if not Trump an apology. If these supporters were disciples of the truth, they’d ask Clinton to climb down from her high horse and retract the ISIL lie. And yet, I hear silence from her camp, proving that the some political laws that power Trump’s supporters to discount absolute truth and honesty also move Clinton’s. Another way to look at the failure of the fact-checkers to move the public’s views can be found in Harry G. Frankfurt’s famous essay “On Bullshit.” When Frankfurt looks at the political meat that makes up the fact-checker’s diet, he doesn’t see lies; he sees bullshit, a hazy effort to communicate a stand or position that doesn’t have the stamina of the truth. Bullshitters like Trump (and Clinton) ignore the demands placed by convention on speakers. They don’t “reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does,” Frankfurt writes. They merely pay no attention to it. “By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are,” he observes. Perhaps more shame could be attached to politicians if the fact-checkers stopped calling their findings lies and started calling them bullshit. Frankfurt demonstrates some sympathy for bullshitters, regarding them as victims of public life. Too often, politicians (and others) are “impelled—whether by their own propensities or by the demands of others—to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some degree ignorant.” It takes discipline to shut your mouth when asked a question. Trump, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina are probably more prone to bullshit than professional politicians because they have relatively less experience speaking at length on economics, foreign policy and other points on the political compass. Or as Frankfurt puts it, “It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction.” The frailty of their art hasn’t been overlooked by the fact-checkers. As Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler explained to my colleague Hadas Gold recently, correcting the politicians’ records again and again rarely results in deeper discussions of the most vital policy issues. In other words, putting out dumpster fires can’t save the forest. There’s a movement afoot that preaches that the abundance of liars and bullshitters have driven us to a “post-truth era” in politics, to pinch the title of a 2004 book by Ralph Keyes. The post-truth era has spouted tendrils in recent years, inspiring talk about “post-truth politics“ and “post-truth candidates,” of which Trump is the exemplar. All the lies and bullshit—and the public’s lack of interest in the fact-checker’s exposés—are enough to make a small-D democrat despair. But are today’s politics more heavily populated with liars and bullshit artists than earlier eras? Or has modern technology simply made possible the detection of lies down to the parts per billion, revealing lies today that went unnoticed or unmarked upon in other times? That’s my sense. President Lyndon Johnson promised that he wouldn’t send ground troops to Vietnam. Prior to invading Cuba, President John F. Kennedy said he had no plans to invade Cuba. President Barack Obama earned Politifact’s Lie of the Year in 2013 for his bogus claim that if you like your health care plan, you can keep it. According to a 1952 news clip from the New York Times, Republican senators trailed President Harry Truman with a “truth squad” so they could provide rapid response to his anticipated embellishments and fabrications. (Fun fact: That was the first mention of “truth squads” in the Times.) The point isn’t that we should absolve Trump of his transgressions with the truth because “everybody does it,” but that his highly unreliable narrations from the campaign trail alert us to how the political mind behaves when it abandons all attempts at self-discipline. What other candidates have made covert, Trump has made overt. Pick a year, pick a politician, pick a candidate, and I’ll bet that I can locate lies in profusion without much effort. We can’t return to the “truth era” because no such harbor has ever existed. Lying has long been normalized—it’s a good bet that the first oration contained a pack of lies. To ask fact-checkers to usher in a truth era with their columns, ratings, lists and rewards when lies and bullshit remain so entrenched in our politics is to ask too much. Ask any exterminator: It’s one thing to spot the vermin, it’s a whole ’nother thing to eliminate it. So should the fact checkers abandon their Pinocchios and trash their Pants on Fire meters and let the lying liars lie? Of course not! The truth matters! But campaign 2016 teaches us that the truth matters in politics less than any of us ever believed. Just ask the fact-checkers. And Donald Trump. Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/12/the-limits-of-the-fact-checker-213461#ixzz3vFoACA3k |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/15 at 20:43:41 No thanks. A wall of text, cut and pasted, TELLING me over and over what a liar Trump is, without regard to the absolute knowledge, having watched the promises and SEEN the lies of both parties, but I'm supposed to dislike Trump. Ohh, he isn't Pawlished He isn't Smooove He isn't Klassy. Screw that. I don't CARE. He CAN'T do a worse job than the last four or five . And Hillary is scarier than Bush on acid. |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by raydawg on 12/25/15 at 07:51:06 You got more coal to pass bro...... But hey, make up your own mind based on what it needs without any input whatsoever. That float yer boat, break out a paddle and make motorboat noise, its your puddle. |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/25/15 at 08:25:36 http://https://matrixbob.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/hillary-snowden.jpg http://gokicker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/hillary-snowden.jpg |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/15 at 04:30:24 Show me where trump lies. I laughed. Hillary for prison,2016. |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/26/15 at 06:48:37 http://https://i.imgflip.com/bzjbn.jpg http://https://sheriffali.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/donald-trump-the-bankruptcy-shyster.jpg http://snocoreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2123.jpg http://www.trofire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/150908-sure-donald-trump-may-have-dodged-vietnam-through-draft-deferments-but.jpg |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/15 at 16:19:55 What do you really know about the events that led up to bankruptcy? Is he broke NOW? Care to talk about how Hillary was pinned down in Bosnia? America is in trouble. I don't think Trump can change it, but I KNOW Hillary won't.The system is wrong, broken, corrupt. I don't see it being fixed while the anti American ideologues who got us here continue to stay in positions of power. The Unelected policy makers are ruining, not just us, but everywhere that has any appreciable natural resources. Of course, seeing it requires having no party affiliation. The Fed, the trade deals, Ohhh, Goodness, we Tried So Hard, but those crafty third world countries and their lawyers just outsmarted us. How much do you have to see before it all comes together? |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by pg on 12/26/15 at 16:42:28 I'm sure no one will touch this; however, do you really want this person running the country? She's laughing about us killing the leader of a sovereign country..... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIRYvJQeHM[/media] Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/15 at 18:21:12 So much is known about her. What she is about is so obvious. That anyone would support her is telling. America is in Deep trouble. |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/27/15 at 07:16:39 justin, as a business major, I research case studies like this all the time. Trump is a thieving scumbag con-artist. He didn't "earn" his wealth, it was inherited money. What Trump has done is over-leverage his companies then, when the companies aren't making enough to cover all the debt, he files chapter 11. He's not risking his own money, he's stealing investors' money... http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FOccupy_Dems_Trump.jpg Bankruptcy: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13286068/1/the-backstory-on-donald-trump-s-four-bankruptcies.html |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/27/15 at 07:25:23 justin, I have to ask, just WTH are you using for metrics to gauge true leadership characteristics for this position? What are YOU looking for in a true leader? |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by pg on 12/27/15 at 14:00:40 7E5F495F484E685B4E3A0 wrote:
Yes it is true, he was born on third base and had every opportunity presented before him. Regarding the bankruptcies, what do you know about the gaming industry? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by Serowbot on 12/27/15 at 15:08:41 4057515D5242300 wrote:
In the long run,.. the house always wins... :-? |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/27/15 at 15:20:58 pg, the "industry" doesn't matter, it's the same foundational principles regardless the "industry". "What Trump has done is over-leverage his companies then, when the companies aren't making enough to cover all the debt, he files chapter 11." |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by old.indian on 12/27/15 at 15:23:31 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/27/webb-rips-clintons-state-record-as-mulls-independent-white-house-bid.html?intcmp=hpbt2 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) He may not stand much of a chance, But I like him.... Neither a "Nut Case" nor a Machiavellian PC political wh#$e. A proven leader (decorated combat infantry veteran) |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/27/15 at 15:50:24 Webb lost me right here: Quote:
UMMMM, so WHO'S accountable? Past? Present? Future? |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by old.indian on 12/27/15 at 16:03:04 Accountability for past actions vs. "What difference does it make now?" As Harry Truman said "The buck stops here." You and I may take responsibility (accountability) for our actions, but we seem to be part of an ever shrinking minority. |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by Serowbot on 12/27/15 at 16:16:14 7D7E763C7B7C767B737C120 wrote:
I don't,.. I blame the dog... (...and I don't have a dog)... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by MnSpring on 12/27/15 at 16:22:47 Interesting statement, ’Trump worth 3B, and if did nothing would be worth 8B.’. Some people are born on 3rd base, ( as PG said), so that is a reason, to dislike them? Take a example, of 4 people, who have inherited a whole lot of money. 1. A person does nothing, just buys bonds, etc, and lives off the intrust. 2. A Person, gives it all away, piece by piece. 3. A person puts it all up his/her nose. 4. A person, risks it. A person works with it. Now, which one, of those 4. Employs, Several Thousands of other people, who pay taxes, (so that would exclude #3, 2, 1,). Which one, WORKS, to do things. Which One ??? Ya wanna dish the ultra-rich, How about Gates, he made BILLIONS, in making Software, OBSOLETE, after a couple of years, so you had to BUY NEW, From HIM ! He, STOLE, Software, that was Not licensed/copyrighted, changed it a , ‘little’, then, licensed/copyrighted it, and made Billions. (Time-Works = Works), (GEM = Windows), (Visa-comp=Excel), (D-Base=Access) Etc, etc, etc, But that is perfectly OK. (And the list goes On , and ON, and ON) Bankruptcy: Trump, Used, the current LAW, and now, is ‘dished for it’. How about the person, 3 weeks ago, in front of me when I went to the Liqueur store to by a case of beer. He pulled out a CC, it was Denied, he did another one, it was Denied, he did another one, it was Denied. (He did this, FIFTEEN TIMES !!!!! 15 Times, 15 CC’s, maxed out!) Then, he was OUT of CC’s, (15 Of them MAXED OUT), so he reached into his pocket, puled out $30.00 Cash, and said: “Guess it is time to file Bankruptcy, AGAIN” !!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, But his actions are Perfectly, OK. ???? A Person went to School, for a degree in: ‘business’. Great, Lots of hard work. Now let’s equate that, to lets say a person who went to school to be a ‘Welder’. In, ‘Welding’ school, one learned about, the Steels, the Carbon content, the thickness, the correct rod, Containing the Correct content of steel, the correct Watt/Amp, to make THE Correct Bead, and ‘Weld.”. Etc Etc. Now, a GREAT, “‘BASE”, to, Learn from. One has been taught the BASIC, Fundamentals. Now here it is 11 PM. You have your portable welder, A Piece of equipment has broken down, the person hiring you, HAS to get their thing , ‘Welded’, to be able to Finish, (Gathering the crops), . It is starting to rain, it is dark, you don’t know, ‘Exactly’ what that the steel that piece is made of. Your Goal, ‘Weld that piece, so it will Hold/Work”. It is called, "REAL LIFE " Will you Fail or Succeed ????? Depends on how much attention you paid in class, and how much, MORE, Information, you went out and Got, YOURSELF ! So, Trump, using a, ’Tool’, Just like, the DIF with 15 CC’s MAXED out, One is, ‘bad’, and one is, ‘OK’, depending on which ‘base’ you were born on????????? |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/27/15 at 17:17:22 MnSpring, he over-leveraged, brags about it and lather rinse repeat. I will say this, HE IS STEALING FROM INVESTORS by doing this over and over again. Is it okay because corporate law says it's okay? Or is it capitalism? Law of the Jungle? Eat or be eaten? Personal BK laws do NOT allow this. He is NOT the type of person I would want in any type of leadership position. Worship at his alter all you want. I bow to no man! |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by DesertRat on 12/27/15 at 17:26:15 7F686E626D7D0F0 wrote:
here's a little data on the gambling industry model here in the US: https://www.quora.com/Gambling/How-do-casinos-ultimately-make-money |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by pg on 12/27/15 at 21:15:24 I have worked in the gaming industry for 11 years; although, not on the casino floor. I can tell you why his casinos failed if you care to know. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/27/15 at 22:22:41 I would welcome any insight into how a casino could fail. Wait,, divorce, wife spending billions before divorce? |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by pg on 12/28/15 at 05:55:12 756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:
There's a lot more behind the scenes that nobody sees. Casinos were a destination activity with Las Vegas starting in the 30s and Atlantic city in the late 70s. For a lot of years they made more money than they could could; although, those days are over. The bankruptcy of Harrah's & Caesars this year solidified that fact. A couple years ago their were about 1,500 casinos in the US, a far cry from days of mob run vegas. Atlantic CIty failed because roughly ¼ of the country's GDP was a comfortable drive from the Casinos when they were built. Today, you can go across the Delaware river and Philadelphia has four, New York has multiple, Connecticut, Maryland, so on so forth offers gaming. Many states offer some form gaming and nearly every federally recognized Tribe has gaming as well. On average a slot machine pays out 94% for every dollar put in. The average hold on table games is 17%. The odds are in the houses favor; although, they have to fight for every dollar now. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by raydawg on 12/28/15 at 08:23:29 Here is our casino, the tribe I am a member of. http://www.downstreamcasino.com/ I can tell you it is the biggest employer in the area. Not only that it has spent millions on helping others in need. If you care to read about its success, it truly is an amazing story. I can remember going to the summer pow-wows. All we had for income was a gas station and tobacco store ;D |
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Title: Re: Bout right..... Post by MnSpring on 12/28/15 at 19:10:26 4F6E786E797F596A7F0B0 wrote:
You have a house you live in. You re-re-mortgage it, then re- mortgage it, then re-mortgage it. Then you buy New Cars/Trucks/Boats/Snowmobiles/Moterhomes/Trailers/SxS’s/Motorcycles, etc. etc. etc. ALL On a Minimum down payment, (because you had some cash for the, Re-re-re-Morgrages on your house). You max out ALL, your CC’s. Now, you can’t make all those payments. What do you do? You File Bankruptcy ! You Get your House for, FREE, and One car/truck, for FREE. Give up ALL the, ’toys’, to a Auction. (But before you do this, you drill holes in the bottom of the boats, you run any ICE out of oil, and disable everything, ANY way you can). Then ? You start over ! Within in 6 months, you are FLOODED, with CC offers, Re Finance your house, and Do It AGAIN ! At the EXPENSE of EVERYONE ELSE, that has a car/house/toys/etc. because as the company that sold that item, got, 'stiffed', they just raised the price to EVERYONE else. (So Who, Paid ?) DesertRat, you have spent a long time going through School. But, you NOW, need to LEARN, how the, ‘REAL WORLD’ works. I sold my first piece of Real-estate, (a house for, 2.500.00 when I was 16) Many years later, ‘had’ to get a, ‘License’. So went to the License ‘class’, learned the, ‘book’, to take the test from. Then, needed to do, X hours of, ‘class’, per year. The FIRST CLASS, the instructor, held up the, ‘BOOK’ we had to learn to pass the test, (and paid 25.00 for), and said: “This Book, you learned from, to pass your test, is WORTHLESS. (Then he threw it into a garbage can). Here I will teach you, what the, ‘Real World’, is like.” A number of years ago, (each year had to, take a, ‘cass’, and have x amount of hours). I did my, ‘class’, for the hours. (their was no pass or fail, it was just, hours in a ‘class’) I sat in the back, with my cup of coffee and the newspaper each day. the Instructor, (looked like she was 12, but I am sure she was at least 18). Went around the class and asked each person, ‘ Why are you here’. I responded: “To Get My Hours”. Then went back to the paper. At the End of the class, she passed out a, ’test’, (Which was for her benefit, it was NOT required). I was bored, so I took the, ’test’. I had the highest Score. And I just read the newspaper, and drank coffee for the last 40 hours. She Just could NOT understand it! (And, there were SEVERAL, 'companies', who if you just Paid them, would send you a 'certificate', that you went through their, 'Class', and got the hours.) So, DesertRat, you have got, (if you studied) a Very good BASE. Now, start, Learning. |
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