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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Spoke wrenches? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1460275137 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 00:58:57 |
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Title: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 00:58:57 I was looking at tire tools, and I came across some spoke wrenches. By the way, what size spoke wrenches do we need to adjust our spokes, both front and rear? |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by hotprops on 04/10/16 at 08:49:16 6mm |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/10/16 at 10:26:12 Thanks! :) Both front and rear, and 6mm even I assume? There are a ridiculous number of sizes in between 6 and 7 mm. By the way, why wouldn't a plain 6 mm open-end wrench work? Is the back of the jaw more square or something, or is it actually a different size? I remember reading that you specifically need spoke wrenches or something. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/10/16 at 11:23:44 Ya know, you COULD just try a wrench and SEE. Wouldn't that be quicker, easier and absolutely no way to be wrong? You still have not managed to reply to my other replies to your problems. Based on everything I have seen, just about the last thing you need to do is start twisting on the spokes. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Kris01 on 04/10/16 at 20:57:23 How do you know your spokes need adjusting? Have you tried the "twang/thunk" test? ;D You can hear a loose spoke. They don't need to be adjusted real often. I used a crescent wrench on my 10-speeds for years. I haven't tried it on the S40. It should work though. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by chzeckmate on 04/11/16 at 00:28:54 Why are you looking at tire tools? You just want to have some in the chest or do you have a reason for looking? |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/11/16 at 08:27:50 Working on my tires. Just something to have just in case. Haven't checked the spokes yet. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/16 at 08:31:34 aven't checked the spokes yet. Somehow I already knew that. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Art Webb on 04/11/16 at 08:35:30 do not start your edjumacation on spoke rims with your MC, get a bicycle rim, learn to true on that only when you can true properly should you even thing of truing your MC rims |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Kris01 on 04/11/16 at 16:12:09 To me, truing a rim and getting all the spokes just right is about as time-consuming and frustrating as setting up a differential. Don't touch 'em unless you have to! |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Art Webb on 04/13/16 at 10:08:59 that's why I really prefer mags, they might not 'look the part' but they don't have spokes to worry about, and no tubes to pinch ;D |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 12:41:15 Got my spoke wrench today. It wiggles a little on the spokes. Made me wonder whether or not it takes a 6.0 or a 5.8 or something. :-/ Anyway, I struck some of the front spokes with the wrench, and, in musical terms, it sounds like the pitch may be apart somewhere near a semitone. Is that a substantial amount of difference in tightness? And, if anyone remembers my post on the front tire wear, I played with the front wheel (still tightened with brake caliper on), and while there may be a little dirt on the tire to throw things off, I suspect that the fellow who mounted and balanced that tire didn't try very hard to get it right ::) as I can detect an imbalance. If I set the tire in a certain position, it will roll backwards. When I spin it, it tends (not always) to settle to a certain area where the valve core and lead weight are somewhere near the bottom. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/16 at 14:27:55 Get the wheel off the ground. Get a wire and put it securely on a block of wood. Adjust the wire to be close to the edge of the rim. Rotate the wheel slowly, watch the gap between wire and rim. Typing the rest of the How to decide what to do is too much. A straight and true wheel is the goal. Getting every spoke to sing the same note isn't. Wildly varying sounds is not likely to yield a true rim, A marker to note which areas of the rim are deflected to one side, which are going the other. STUDY the whole rim before you adjust the first spoke. You Can get it straight, and not on the center of the hub. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 17:48:49 2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:
Are you saying they should sing the same, BUT there's a lot more things to worry about? |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Kris01 on 04/14/16 at 17:50:21 A long nail works better than a wire. It isn't so flimsy. ;) |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 18:05:27 If the rim isn't centered on the hub, wouldn't that cause the tire to be out of balance. How much weight should I use before I worry about the rim being off-center? I've already used 50 grams on the rear wheel in one area of the rim on both right and left sides, which is over 1-3/4 ounces worth, and it still isn't right yet. And yes, I put the weights on the upper side of the rim (opposite of where it settles). Is there something wrong? I remember that the old tire had quite a few 1/4 ounce stick-ons I don't remember how many. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Kris01 on 04/14/16 at 18:09:47 Yes, the tire/wheel will be out of balance but you can't correct it with weights. The wheel will wobble regardless of how much weight you use. You need to center the wheel on the hub first. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 18:44:09 Are you saying that the wheel will still settle no matter how much weight I use, or does it just mean that there will still be a problem? Of course weight won't fix it. I'm just wondering whether the need to use 2+ ounces of weight points to an untrue rim, or whether that's normal. I think the last tire needed over an ounce. I'm wondering whether I have some pain-in-the-butt rim imbalance I have to worry about. I haven't tested the tune of the spokes on the rear. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/16 at 18:46:49 If it's out of balance and the rim is not runnimg true, you can straighten it up by using the spoke wrench. The reason for the wire or nail or prybar close to the rim is so your eye can pick up Where the rim starts to deflect. You can get it perfe tly straight, but off center and one part farther from the axle. You're playing with a lot of stuff when you grab a spoke wrench. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 18:50:25 I tend to worry more about a lopsided wheel interfering with my tire balance job than I worry about the rim being untrue from side to side. And yes, I blame my first wreck on an adult bicycle on untrue rims. That wreck was why I started wearing gloves for bike riding, if you know what I mean. I do understand what trouble a laterally untrue rim can cause. Which is harder, getting the rim true or getting it centered? |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Kris01 on 04/14/16 at 19:06:04 You can't balance this wheel with wheel weights. The light side (right side in pic) can have a ton of weight but it still won't balance. You need to center the hub 1st and THEN balance the tire. Centering the hub and balancing the tire are two separate jobs. http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/Untitled_007.jpg |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Kris01 on 04/14/16 at 19:08:07 Wow! That came out huge! |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/14/16 at 19:11:29 I always handled them together. The wire, use the wire, it Shows you everything you need to know. STUDY the WHOLE WHEEL , mark on it, formulate a plan, THEN grab the wrench. If you don't know what you are trying to accomplish with every spoke, you're gonna fight it. You should know where its out of round and where it's off center left, off center right.. A spoke tightened or loosened in one place can affect a wheel on the opposite side of the wheel too..Depends on how dang screwed up things are. Adjust, rotate, study, How hard would it be to balance a wheel that is two inches closer to the axle on one side and two inches further away on the other? Dunlop tires are marked with a dot, the lightest part. Before mounting a tire, you can check the wheel for balance, and see what you can figure out on the tire. Or, pay someone.. I installed ONE rear tire.. never again. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/14/16 at 21:14:21 I got the red dot on my shinko maybe an inch or two off from the valve core. It shouldn't cause that much trouble. I took off quite a bit of weight from the last tire. Now I'm putting a lot of weight back on. I'm not sure it's in the same place, but this is making me a little concerned that it's more than simple tire balancing. :-/ Maybe the rim is imbalanced rather than the tire. :-/ Maybe the rim is heaviest at a point other than the valve core. :-/ I'll take a look at it tomorrow and spin it to see if it's visibly off center. I'll also check the spokes. Maybe I can make some sense of this. Some say that after they get so much weight on it, say 3 ounces or so, they spin the tire on the rim and try balancing again. I don't want to have to break down the tire again and risk pinching that tube. :-/ What happens when you get too much weight on a tire? |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by HovisPresley on 04/15/16 at 07:11:19 Mate, as has been said already; Your tyres/tubes/wheels are the bit between you (as you are perched on a lump of metal, at speed) and the rock-hard road. Get a professional to do the job ;) |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/15/16 at 08:25:33 Nah, I need to do this myself. I need to get good at something. I'm not about to spend $75 an hour for someone to do what I would do better myself. You read that right... better... myself... Why? Because I'm willing to spend hours to carefully do what the pros will slap together in minutes. One of the drawbacks of being able to charge $75 an hour is that customers get pissed if they don't get their stuff ready QUICK. Yeah, they're a lot better and quicker at it, but they are also not as likely to be careful. So, you see, there's a tradeoff. The pro job could be better.... or it could be worse.... No promises. The only thing that is promised most of the time is that money will be drawn from your pocket. Now, if I were going to work on bikes, especially if I was just starting out, I would do it dirt cheap, maybe even free. As I got better, I would charge more, but I bet I could still give the customers a good deal no matter how good I got. I doubt anyone really needs to charge $75 an hour unless he can't deal with the flood of customers. Now, the one who quoted me that price has mechanics who work for him. That causes costs to go up. Right? A one man operation with low overhead shouldn't need to charge more than $50 per hour. In fact, there are quite a few people who are forced to live off minimum wage ($7.25). If a shop charged a mere $20 per hour, it would be piled mile high with customers. Of course, that figure doesn't really represent take home pay. :-/ Besides, I basically have no job. The one I have has me scheduled to work 3 hours this week. Yeah, I said 3 hours in the whole cotton-pickin' week. I've already run 2500 miles on an 8 year old tire on a beat up little Savage and wrecked twice. How could installing and balancing my own tire be any worse? How could truing my own wheels be any worse. It's not like I'm riding a precision Beemer or something. There's not much to screw up that wasn't off kilter from the factory. I'd say that, unless I screwed up something significantly, my bike should be significantly safer than it was previously. |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/15/16 at 08:32:04 I would expect to be able to deflateit, break the bead and slip the tire on the rim. No risk of pinching. You sure you don't have a lump of soap in the tire? You said that the pulley is on it. When stuff isn't working out, try changing something. How are you doing this? |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by Dave on 04/15/16 at 17:55:50 Off topic replies have been removed. If you have something else to say about Spoke Wrenches......proceed. ;) |
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Title: Re: Spoke wrenches? Post by cheapnewb24 on 04/15/16 at 18:18:41 Okay. :) ;) |
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