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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Broken bolt in the head /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1468203484 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 07/10/16 at 19:18:04 |
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Title: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/10/16 at 19:18:04 Well... I finally got around to trying again to remove that stuck allen bolt from the exhaust manifold. That thing is so stuck that acetone/ATF didn't work. I tried the fire and ice trick a little but ended up with a burned finger and frustration. >:( Dad and I worked on it, and I finally broke the bolt. Yep, I broke an M8 allen bolt off in the head. I drilled it some. I'm worried about getting the hole crooked and breaching into the head. The goal is to get the remains out with the threads undamaged. I didn't have a ez-out small enough, so I'll have to get one in the morning. I'm still not sure that will remove it. It's stuck so solid. Somebody ought to find the dumb fool that stuck a corrosive black allen bolt in an exhaust manifold and make him eat crow... raw! >:( He could have at least put some anti-seize in there... or even used it as a temporary fix while he found a more suitable bolt. But no! He had to leave it in there to weld itself stuck! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/10/16 at 19:38:14 Well ! : you might have to pull the motor out of the frame and jig it under a drill press ... ::) One thing for sure is you'll be buying the right size easy-out and getting one that has a life-time-guarantee because you know your going to break it at least once ! ;) Could be ... and most likely is somebody used "THREAD LOCK" when they put the bolt in. I put a stud in mine that stays in the head at all times . If I were in your situation : 1. Get the hole drilled for easy out (put a bolt in the good hole use the same angle) 2. Tork-up the easy-out bit 3. put a torch on the surrounding area to soften the thread-lock. or just drill it out to the tap dia. for a new stud (8mm or 5/16") , cut new threads then thread-lock it in and leave it there ! :) good luck |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Kris01 on 07/10/16 at 20:04:06 The ham handed mechanic probably didn't know any better. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/16 at 20:04:59 I've never had any luck with these. Being that heads are expensive and hard to find, I suggest taking it to a professional. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/10/16 at 20:47:00 Good idea Versey : You can get the head off without removing the motor from the frame --- put a new cam chain while your there ! ;) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/16 at 21:13:31 62716667787573717A25140 wrote:
I would call around to machine shops. I found a guy who cut walk in folks a Lot better deal than the shop rate. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/10/16 at 21:28:41 011301131E0D020F044C0 wrote:
Well, then I want one of those nitrided chains. ;) I may still try to get it myself. I'll keep the idea in mind. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Ruttly on 07/10/16 at 22:21:30 Newbee,when you drill your broken bolt for the easy out, make sure you drill all the way thru the bolt but not into the head,then spray some pb blaster or liquid wrench thu the hole you drilled let it sit awhile, then heat the area around bolt trying to keep torch off the bolt,then try the easy out , careful they break easy,if it doesn't move,remove easy out,spray & heat again. You can do it take your time ! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/16 at 22:31:37 Without the engine or head secured and a drill press to line up, that is not likely to survive. A handheld drill isn't gonna get it. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Dave on 07/11/16 at 04:44:32 322D2B2C31360737073F2D216A580 wrote:
JOG is correct.....you won't be able to drill the bolt out with a handheld drill, or get it out with an easy out. If the darn thing was so tight (stuck) that it broke the bolt head off.....you really have little chance of getting it out with any kind of extractor/easy out. You also cannot remove the head with the engine in the frame, as the cylinder studs are too long to allow the head to clear the bolts.....the head will hit the top frame rail before it clears the studs. You really are in a bad situation. It is nearly impossible to drill out a hard metal stud in soft aluminum....and keep the drill centered. The existing stud has most likely already galled the threads before it became stuck.....or at a minimum it is badly corroded into the aluminum threads. I really don't see any way for you to fix this....other than to take the head off and send it to a professional (machine shop or very good mechanic). |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/11/16 at 05:18:22 I have a good drill press , a shop, metal, welder, grinders, dial calipers, all kindsa stuff, and I would Still call machine shops and ask what they would want.. probably just haul the head to them and let them look...I'd have an idea what they would charge before I even started building a jig. And without the stuff I have I would not even think about trying to fix it. If you can get a head and cover for less than the repair costs, or even if you spend a bit more, and avoid the repaired head, might be, errm, ahead. Nobody can freehand a drill bit down the center of a bolt, even If they can grind the end flat and square. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by LANCER on 07/11/16 at 07:44:17 I had one a while back, with the stock type bolt broken off in the head. I tried everything I had that had worked in the past and nothing would do the trick. After many days of frustration I took it to a machine shop in Tulsa, recommended by a racing engine builder for bikes, and it took him almost 3 hours to get the sucker out. He broke one of his hardest drill bits on it, then used a rod that seemed like something for plasma cutting. That finally worked AFTER he broke one of those rods too. He only charged me $65, up just a little from the original quoted fee of $45. His broken tools amounted to well over $100. SO ... take it to a professional. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by engineer on 07/11/16 at 11:38:20 The best way to do it is with an EDM, electric discharge machine or a variant called a MDM. Machine shops and especially die shops are always breaking off really hard tools such as taps and drills. The discharge machines literally eat up the broken off bolt or tool by vaporizing it. Some shops need the EDM for some of their machining but many keep them just so they can save their work when they break something off. Many will do it for walk in customers for a fee, it doesn't take them long to do it. I knew a guy who was really skillful at drilling out broken grade 8 bolts, he never failed. When he was done drilling he could pick out the remaining material with a diamond shaped chisel and a pick. He worked on a crew that repaired heavy industrial equipment and had a lot of practice. But not everyone can do that, you must keep the drill straight and centered at the same time. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Ed L. on 07/11/16 at 13:28:16 Could you weld a nut on the busted end of the bolt? A Mig or Tig welder could get a good weld on the bolt going through the center of the nut. The heat of welding the nut on might help break loose the busted bolt's threads in the head also. I've seen it done and it works most of the time. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 07/11/16 at 17:27:02 767D7074657B7062772721150 wrote:
I'd find the arseclown who knew the bolt was stuck and chose to snap it off anyway and give him a good kicking as well. He sure made your life harder :P. I wonder if he tried intense localised heat from an oxy or propane torch on the alloy surrounding the bolt. That works remarkably well. Ditto the nut welded to the end of the stud per: Ed L. You need someone who can mig weld, and don't try it with the hobby gasless mig, unless you're quite good. When it comes out, try to fit a stud in there instead. Then you just have a nut to remove next time. Cheapy, this could be right up your alley. Why take it to a professional if you can make something just as good from crap lying around the house? ;D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlwprOKAENo |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/11/16 at 19:58:34 Just to let ya'll know : ::) The studs that hold the cylinder and head --- They screw out of the crankcase easily if ya put a double nut on the end of them. ;) but do be careful not to break one of them off in the crankcase ! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/11/16 at 21:43:13 Too late: Broke an easy out in the bolt drove the piece farther in, chipped away at what was left of the outer portion of the bolt. Should have drilled a bigger hole, but it probably would have broke anyway. Then Dad tried to torch it. Discouraged, I told him that I ought to take it to a machine shop but that I'd go ahead and be a fool and let him destroy it for me. Well, obviously, it didn't work. Melted some of the head. Should still be salvageable, though. Emotionally exhausted, I just had enough left in me to drill a little on it. I feel almost like the torch made the steel even harder. I gave up. :( Since I got the carb jets today, I tried to work on Dad's Shadow and get it ready to ride as that'll probably be the only thing left for me. Got everything back together but couldn't find the rubber gas tank bushings, The gas tank will drive you crazy as it has no fuel shutoff, there are two fuel lines, and gas is wholesale dumped all over the ground.Dad was there to help me. Then it kept leaking. Then we gave up when we found that the fuel line tore. Above that, the gas can spout leaked so badly it was useless. Had to take it off and pour freehand. I failed on my bike, and so I thought I would make a last ditch effort to redeem myself with the other one. I failed to succeed then too. I was past mild frustration. I was left demoralized. Ever get the feeling that any skill or occupation you try to learn discourages you, and just as soon as you get enough courage to try again; just as soon as you start to make a little progress, It kicks you in the balls, bashes your head against the ground, kicks dirt in your eyes, spits on you, gives you the finger, says f you, and walks off? It's like you get so stubbornly determined to succeed at a task that you get stupid and punch a brick wall with all your might with the faith that you'll somehow break the wall. What else am I supposed to do, surrender to the brick wall, or die trying to break it? I tried to be independent and fix something myself. I didn't like to hire it done. I'm too cheap, in a way. I want to get good at it and do it myself and save money. Hiring people to do stuff these days costs way too much money. It's self-esteem too. Some people can screw up and lose money and it doesn't bother them. I'm different. It tends to affect my self worth. If I spend too much on this bike and can't make it worth more, then it's like my labor is worthless, and that doesn't reflect good on how much I'm worth. Remember, I work minimum wage. And as far as the dummy that broke it off... It was me. What else was I supposed to do? I guess I could have just kept running it, but then I could never have pulled any service on anything on the right side, if you know what I mean. Maybe I should have run it until the cam adjuster fell off and the engine broke or the clutch stopped gripping, and just thrown away the whole bike. It was a bit consoling to read that most of these threads suggest that no common man could succeed at the job anyway. Maybe I'm not a worthless POS after all. The Savage is down until I can either get a replacement head or get someone to repair what's left of the one I have. Having read that I'm going to have to pull the motor, I'm kind of laughing right now. A cherry on top of this catastrophe ice cream. It's almost like a consolation. I'm confused. With what I've been through, pulling the motor seems less hurtful to me than ruining the head. I'm not sure what to think or say right now. I have to get up early in the morning to take my Dad to the Hospital for heart surgery... yeah... well, at least a heart cath, but who knows what they're liable to do while they're in there. Good night. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Ruttly on 07/11/16 at 22:14:59 Oh cheer up , you didn't blow up the garage ! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by WD on 07/11/16 at 22:26:17 It IS a throw away bike. The factory designed it to go roughly 25k miles before the cam goes flat, the cam tower castings erode, or the timing tensioner lets go and grenades the engine. Thank the old forum for any sensor bypasses and the correct way to tension the drive belt. Thank the wrenches on this forum for every other upgrade. My 2003 is showing definite signs of imminent catastrophic failure. The other day it took 2.397 gallons to refill the tank, with maybe 70 miles ridden. Clutch cable is shot. Brake cable is shot. Caliper is junk, as are the rear shoes. Speedometer and exhaust both howl, the exhaust sounds like a Ford Power Stroke V8 with straight pipes and an oversized turbo. Neither tire holds more than 20psi for 24 hours. Valves sound like a skeleton orgy on a tin roof. My hatred of all things OHC-OHV-electronic ignition has grown exponentially. I am actively hunting a 61-80 cubic inch flathead V-twin, and the name on the gas tank is irrelevant. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by jcstokes on 07/11/16 at 23:46:59 Engineer, are those EDM/MDM things similar to a spark eroder?. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 07/12/16 at 01:37:22 I feel your pain. I've screwed a few things up myself. No sympathy though. You have been given some good advice on this problem, some of which you took and other that you ignored. Heat before snapping it probably might have worked. Then again you might have melted the head anyway. Or, you could have pulled the head off and taken it to a workshop. But no. You'll save money by ruining the head then pulling it off and taking it to a workshop anyway. Sometimes even the experts call in outside help. Good on you for wanting to do it yourself but sometimes, you just need help. Stop making things harder for yourself. Take a break and calm down before the shadow makes yourlife hell, too. Maybe , when you visit the machine shop with your head, ask if they'll swap some grunt work ( sweeping, part washing ) for a labour discount. We used to let some crew do that back in the day. You might even learn something. Good luck champ. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/12/16 at 08:22:22 WD The LS650 ain't a throw away . I know a feller who has over 130,000 miles on one . They do require some petting once in a while , kinda like keeping Horses ... you have to "care and understand them" . ;D My first one was idled too low before I got it and the cam/rocker arms always rattled . The one I've got now has 26,000 miles on it and still sounds tight. I made a 800 mile run in April 90% above 70mph and didn't use any oil at all. I put a "not so tight" spring in the cam chain tension-er (@8,000 miles) and have 26,000 miles on the original cam chain now. I believe your right about Over Head Cam --- I've kinda took-a-liking to push rod engines too . ;) and two valves per cylinder also ! :) That reminds me : Lancer you got any information on those "Super Chains" to pass on to us ? :-? or Should that be a totally new thread ? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by LANCER on 07/12/16 at 09:51:14 No word yet but keep in mind this is a 2 month process, minimum. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by engineer on 07/12/16 at 12:08:44 Jcstokes, yes, EDM and spark eroder are the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by LANCER on 07/13/16 at 06:36:44 That reminds me : Lancer you got any information on those "Super Chains" to pass on to us ? :-? or Should that be a totally new thread ? There is a thread devoted to the cam chains. Now, what did I do with it ? ? :-? OK, I found it ! http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1455475035 |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/16 at 13:10:55 Once it's out I wish you would post a picture. BEFORE you haul it off and spend money. If you'll listen I might save you some money. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by WD on 07/13/16 at 17:25:26 130113010C1F101D165E0 wrote:
My 2003 is pushing 41k actual, a bit over 21k showing on the odometer that worked wrong or not at all for the better part of 14-16 months. Timing chain is shot. No Versy adjuster take up room left. Bike is using 16-20 ounces of oil in 150 miles. Time is coming for it and every fuel injected and/or electronic ignition vehicle on the farm to form the new dam core needed to flood the back acreage. Paid a mobile mechanic to put a new distributor in my daily driver K1500 that I needed for flagging on the 10th. Truck runs worse than ever. Bringing a 1969 truck back online to replace 3 that have electronic ignitions. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by LANCER on 07/13/16 at 19:22:34 I recently brought my dad's pickup back to the farm to rebuild, literally everything. It is a '75 Chevy C20 with a big steel flat bed which replaced the standard bed ... well, a long time ago. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Ed L. on 07/13/16 at 19:22:57 Just finished replacing the fuel pump in my '03 Tahoe TWICE, the idiots who designed it put the pump in the tank >:(. Starting to think everything made nowadays is throwaway and I'm not even going to talk about how much some of the other stuff needed on the Tahoe cost to get it back on the road. don't feel bad about busting that bolt, I pulled on a 1/4 inch line while dropping the fuel tank and snapped off a fitting on a canister, that was a quick "C" note I didn't expect which was just the beginning. If you don't try you won't learn, even mistakes give knowledge, busted knuckles, frustration and wondering WTF !!!! ;) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Ruttly on 07/13/16 at 20:15:09 What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger & smarter. One time I had a rusted bolt in a tstat housing was a Cat engine in a beautiful Peterbilt, told myself I got this,started heating it with a torch and the housing just melted into a hot blob of sh@t, boy did I look stupid. But I know now not to do that again. I used to tell my apprentices don't try to remember everything in the manual it will always be there just remember the things you f___ked up & thing you had to figure out on your own and you'll be fine. They all turned out to be great wrenches. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/15/16 at 22:06:49 5D4244435E5968586850424E05370 wrote:
Here you go. I haven't pulled the motor yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA&feature=youtu.be [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA&feature=youtu.be[/media] In case it interests you, we actually do have a drill press. We've just never really used it. ::) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/16/16 at 18:54:21 OK fellers ! ;) Here is a question I'm sure somebody with an old head laying around can assure !! What if a person was to move over a half inch from the original bolt holes and make a NEW SET OF HOLES in the same circle ... ::) There ain't nothing says you can't ... ;) So here we go : 1. Draw a circle on the surface where the original holes are now . 2. Scribe a "X" 3/8 inch right or left of the original holes. 3. Drill a new hole for a 12mm or 5/16" tap 4. Tap the hole (use plenty of oil) and go nice and slow. 5. Clean the hole with ??? starting fluid ??? 6. Insert a stud coated with thread lock 7. Walk away for a day ! :) Now the question is .... (drum roll please ) : how deep can you drill the new hole/studs ? :-? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/16 at 18:55:40 Someone just sliced one up.. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/16/16 at 19:01:57 Or just measure the original hole depth ! ;D That broken easy-out really makes things difficult for the original holes . |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/16/16 at 20:36:11 Someone told me about using what he called a "carbon" bit (carbide??? :-?). Said they cost 20-something dollars apiece. This person ran an auto body shop. I told him about the situation. He said that after a few turns of the bit, the easy-out would shatter. Anyone aware of this stuff? How about a diamond coated drill bit??? A masonry bit??? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/16 at 22:09:12 Started reading about three pages ago. I HAD suggestions on how to solve the problem. You ignored everything everyone told you. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/16/16 at 22:11:29 So you have nothing else to say??? Okay... I'l figure it out myself then. Why did I go through the trouble to shoot you a video? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/16 at 22:14:20 32393430213F3426336365510 wrote:
Here you go. I haven't pulled the motor yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA&feature=youtu.be [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA&feature=youtu.be[/media] @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@$@@$@$@@@@@ I was interested,, In case it interests you, we actually do have a drill press. We've just never really used it. ::) [/quote] Dave and I spent quite some time... |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/16/16 at 22:23:10 Huh :-???? Wondering why we've never hooked up that old drill press we got from Tractor Supply Company? Hey, I've got a Tig welder and plasma cutter, too. Never even tried them that I know of. Seems like things around here get bought and never used. Funny thing they'll break the first time they're used and the warranty will be run out.. ;D Dad bought a $20000 diesel dually truck, and uses it for a big doorstop... Literally! ;D ::) He blocks the door to keep away thieves. He hardly even drives it enough to keep the battery charged. That's my life. ;D ::) Insane! Tools locked up where they're hard to get to. You won't believe the degree of disorganization and backwardness there is around here. Why am I not a mechanic by now? Why have I gone years letting cars, trucks, and expensive equipment rot down in front of me? I think I've at least partly explained it. You can't work in a disorganized mess. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/16/16 at 22:39:10 With all that said, I could probably hook up the drill press, hope it works, and hope I can find something to hold the head with. :-/ Or is that just a dumb idea? Reading backwards, Ed's idea about welding on a nut is interesting. But then... If the bolt head broke in the first place, who's to say it would ever have come loose? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/16/16 at 22:42:41 6F7076716C6B5A6A5A62707C37050 wrote:
Here you go. I haven't pulled the motor yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA&feature=youtu.be [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA&feature=youtu.be[/media] @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@$@@$@$@@@@@ I was interested,, In case it interests you, we actually do have a drill press. We've just never really used it. ::) [/quote] Dave and I spent quite some time... [/quote] What's all the @ and $ for ? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/17/16 at 12:52:25 Here's something interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwz7BhAWZE [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwz7BhAWZE[/media] |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Serowbot on 07/17/16 at 13:40:07 Sooooo,... it looks like, if you can get it lined up in a drill press, you just go at it with everything you got until it gives... ;D... The tricky bit, is getting it lined up... |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/17/16 at 14:15:32 Got any other suggestions? Try to find a good machine shop locally? Maybe ship the head out for repair in a specialized shop? Or find a used head that isn't crazy expensive? Until what gives? The problem? Is funny a good thing? Or are you laughing because you're being skeptical? Here's an example of a specialized service. http://brokentap.com/services.html |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 07/17/16 at 17:19:47 I'd be thinking about using the spark erosion service if it were mine. Doesn't look like the melted bit is too bad and not in a critical area so maybe it'll be ok. You sure made a lot of extra work for yourself. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/16 at 17:54:50 Well, it wasn't His fault. Nobody TOLD him anything. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/17/16 at 18:41:22 544B4D4A5750615161594B470C3E0 wrote:
Uhh..Huh...Okay Justin ::) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/17/16 at 18:48:19 7D676361605E6F7C7A7C676A696B0E0 wrote:
Sounds like a pretty good idea. I might do some price checking on a used head as well as these services. If I keep running into crazy high prices for a used head, it may be the wisest thing for me to have this professionally done. It makes sense that I should reserve my DIY-ness for things that are not so expensive. Can't say I've made up my mind yet though. I don't want to take too long. I'll probably end up riding Dad's bike for a while, but I'd like to get mine in top shape sometime before the dawn of the next century. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/16 at 19:30:59 If I keep running into crazy high prices for a used head, it may be the wisest thing for me to have this professionally done. Well, that's new. Ohh, THAT'S new! Wisdom involved.. Taking advice from a couple of old guys? Maybe that's wisdom... It makes sense that I should reserve my DIY-ness for things that are not so expensive. Or, maybe approach the DIY from a Wise position. You were told by me and Dave that a handheld drill would Not get it. That you HAVE a drill press and went with a handheld drill in an awkward position after being TOLD that Nobody could win that, and THEN tried to take comfort from the fact that nobody else could have won that,, Dude, BE CHEAP,, that's Fine! We All want to save money, but when you Ask for advice and Then ignore it and get in big trouble and THEN ask for advice to solve the problem YOU created?? Seriously? And No, I don't CARE about who was running the drill.. If I had asked for help and done what you did I would be too embarrassed to ask for more help after ignoring the advice you got. Especially after you Proved us correct. Offensive? Rude? Inconsiderate? Ask for help. Ask someone to think through your problem. Ask them to explain how to handle the problem. Ignore the advice. Watch the problem explode in your face. Ask for help solving the problem YOU created. Is that Offensive? Rude? Inconsiderate? No, I'm NOT the jerk. I'm tired of you and your unwillingness to listen. Goodluck.. If someone is willing to waste their time trying to help you, well, they are not paying attention. I'm done with you. You're gonna hafta DEMONSTRATE a willingness to listen before I waste time typing again. New , innocent people are suffering from my lack of patience because of just how frustrating you have been. I hope you grow up instead of continue to shrug and pretend you just are what you are and there is nothing you can do about it to be someone who is not so frustrating.. / Dude, you HAVE a drill press, and were TOLD that without, at Least A drill press it was Impossible,, I'm totally pissed,, Yeah,, your Dad decided,, uh huhh. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/17/16 at 20:01:37 Well, Justin, I went through the trouble of posting that video because you sorta asked for it. I'm guessing the last straw was when I said I had a drill press stowed away somewhere. :-? But, don't worry about me. I certainly don't want your being annoyed with me to end up hurting other people. You don't have to waste your energy on this thread any more if you don't feel like it. If anybody else feels like talking about it, they're welcome. If not, that's fine. We'll figure something out. Cheapy out. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/17/16 at 20:44:21 dude ! Just drill a new hole in the aluminum head and use the steel stud in the good hole as a guide on the good side and wing it on the broken side. Long as you do both holes the Header clamp will still be just fine . Don't forget to leave room for tapping the threads. This is not difficult. you could even do the good side first , then mount the header keeper on the new stud so you can mark (center punch) the broken side (to make sure you get exactly the right spot for the second hole. Ain't nothing hard about it. ;) If you insist on getting that broken easy-out removed --- good luck getting you "Supper Drill Bit" lined up on that one ! You'll be jigged up on a milling machine before you do. ;) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/17/16 at 21:25:51 I get the feeling that drilling a new hole might pivot the header pipe out of alignment with the exhaust port or something. I'll take a look at it tomorrow. I think it's ideal if I can clean out the old hole and install a thread insert if needed, but I need to get the angle right for the drill. I think you may have brought up a great idea. Use the keeper as a stencil and stick the drill bit through it. It might not be a miracle cure but maybe it will help. The angle of that broken bolt is confusing, if you know what I'm talking about. installing the bracket with the other bolt may help . I may still have to pull the head, though. Oh, wait... So you think I should drill two new holes and stud them both? Sounds a little more reasonable. Still have my doubts. I'll take a look at it tomorrow anyway. Thanks for your help. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Dave on 07/18/16 at 04:39:09 There is no good way to relocate and re-drill/tap the holes. As the photo below shows....the holes are located in areas where the head has been designed to accept the studs....the other areas don't provide room for the holes or threads. It is time that you realize you are in over your head. You don't have the proper tools or experience to fix this broken bolt/stud, or to install a threaded insert if needed (There is very little room to drill the hole oversize and install an insert). Your Craftsman drill press is not a milling machine, and you won't be able to keep the drill centered in the bolt.....and you most certainly won't be able to drill out a broken off EZ out. You need to remove the engine from the frame, remove the head, and send it to a professional (or buy a used head). |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/18/16 at 08:25:05 Thanks for the picture. You may have saved me a wasted trip outside my door. :D Now I know there's no relocating the holes. that simplifies things. My parents suggest that they've done things in their years that they weren't supposed to be able to do. Dad still seems to think we can drill it out. Actually, it's worse, the drill press is not even Craftsman, I think it's a Black Bull press from Tractor Supply Company. I understand you believe I cannot do it. I will keep that in mind and may hire professional help. Of course, sometimes telling me I can't do something gives me the itch to be a good sport and prove everyone wrong. ;) Thanks Dave for your help and clarification of your opinion. I will take your advice into consideration. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Ed L. on 07/18/16 at 14:06:50 So you have a drill press:) which means you can drill a straight hole in metal and you can make a accurate drill guide template. Get a 3/8 inch or thicker piece of steel and drill two holes in it, one the size of the stud, the other the size of what ever super drill bit you are going to go after that busted stud with. Center the holes on the stud holes in the head. Take the good threaded hole and mount the plate on it as tight as you dare with the smaller hole centered over the busted stud. The idea is to make a template that bolts to the exhaust port which will keep the drill bit from wandering as you try drilling the busted stud out. Use lots of oil while drilling and keep the bit sharp. You will need to get that easyout removed first which can be a problem. Getting on it with a hardened punch or real small cold chistle and chipping at it has worked for me but is a real ball buster. A reverse threaded bit might be the best bet, I would buy a bunch cause you will break some bits no matter what happens. If you can get through the easyout it should work. Try starting with a smaller pilot hole and going up bigger increasing the smaller hole in the template as you go to keep the drill bit straight. Don't know what else to try except for taking it to a machine shop. Luck with it |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 14:45:11 ted stud. The idea is to make a template that bolts to the exhaust port which will keep the drill bit from wandering as you try drilling the busted stud out. Use lots of oil while drilling and keep the bit sharp. Filed in the Never Forget drawer.. Flippin Gene Yuss.. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/18/16 at 19:55:57 The easy out is driven in there. Tried to punch on it already. Could try some more. Probably gonna need a carbide drill bit. Turns out that I asked Dad about buying a #0 torch tip. I asked what he had on it. He told me a #6. Said it was a big tip. And he has the nerve to try something delicate with that? ::) Do you use a 20 pound sledgehammer to repair a wristwatch? Is it any wonder it didn't work? You think drilling a plate will work better than using the keeper? Makes sense that it might keep the bit tighter in line. Reverse-threaded drill bits??? :-?Are those more or less likely to break when pieces of the easy out catches on them? Can you get them in carbide? :-? If I need professional help, then I need it, but I'm liable to give it one more try or two before I give up. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by MMRanch on 07/18/16 at 20:49:20 Dave , that s a good picture ! ... desperate time call for desperate measures ... it was just an idea. :-? If it was mine , I believe I'd be pulling the head off. ;) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by verslagen1 on 07/18/16 at 20:59:37 1st thing to do is get the easy out... out. pay attention to that youtube that was posted... go get some pcb carbide drills |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by hotprops on 07/18/16 at 21:33:58 how much of said bolt is still exposed,enough to weld on a proper size nut and prey? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/18/16 at 21:55:30 7A697E7F606D6B69623D0C0 wrote:
Sounds like a plan. :) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/18/16 at 21:59:46 5C5B4044465B4447340 wrote:
Zilch... Not applicable. Take a look at the video. All gone now. Might have been an option at first, but not anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ZRc0smdbA[/media] |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 22:07:35 EZ OUTS just crush the hollowed out bolt into the threads its screwed into. You should have just grabbed a bigger bit and kept drilling out till you could tap it. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/19/16 at 08:05:16 If that's so, I can be even more sure that the only way that bolt's comin' out is in little bitty shreds. Fat chance I'll be re-tapping and installing a helicoil. I planned that anyway. I swear I'll drench every exhaust bolt I see till it's dripping with anti-seize. One thing you've gotta do on this bike is be able to remove the exhaust manifold for servicing the clutch side bottom end. On any bike, you need to be able to remove the manifold. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by engineer on 07/19/16 at 13:24:54 Someone referred to a reverse thread drill bit, actually I think it is simply called a left handed drill bit. You do have to run a standard power drill in reverse to use it. They are good as a first tool to use when drilling out a broken off bolt. With the drill sinking down into the old bolt and spinning to the left the broken bolt often unscrews itself and the job is done. The left hand bits usually are not in hardware store, you have to order them. But the best way is EDM. If you can find a small (and compassionate) machine shop you might get it done at a reasonable price but you would have to take the head off. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/19/16 at 18:56:48 I kinda plan on taking the head off. These broken bikes and other things in life are stressing me out. :( That Honda Shadow drove me crazy... again. That thing has been almost nothing but trouble. But that's for another thread. I started to pull the motor this evening after losing my sanity on that Shadow, but there were too many troublesome things to worry with. I'm sure it's not terribly difficult, for the most part, as long as I can get that front pulley nut loose. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/07/16 at 19:05:14 Got the engine out. I'm going to pull the cover and check the cam chain in the morning. I'm going to try to get with a mechanic neighbor and try to get a good deal with a local machinist on that head bolt. I wanna get this thing back together and ride. Screw trying to prove something... unless it's way too expensive... but then... I already have someone who will supposedly do it for maybe $75. I've got nothing... and I mean nothing as far as bikes... to ride. Can't get that Shadow to run right. I may be tearing that thing apart and putting it back together from now till kingdom come. I'd like to get some of that molten metal replaced, but that might be expensive. Should I be concerned? We have welders galore. Even a TIG welder. Never tried it out. Just don't have experience. And good luck getting anything worthwhile out of that old coal miner of mine. ::) I'm going to take the whole motor to that machinist and ask if he can safely and effectively do the job without pulling the head. If I don't have to pull the head, I might be able to avoid spending $36 on a new head gasket. I would like to remove the head bolts, anti-seize them and retorque them. I sure don't want to let that thing age and seize those bolts too. I'd guess there's already antiseize in there from the factory, but... :shoulder shrug: I will be able to remove one bolt at a time and re-torque without breaking the seal, right??? I seem to recall that you can do that. Didn't someone here talk about that? Probably in the tech documents about that head plug thingy. Wouldn't this be a good time to adjust the valves??? Can it be done in a few minutes? Do I need to worry about the gaskets? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/07/16 at 19:22:07 Oh, wait, I just remembered that the head looked greasy, like it was leaking a little around the lower valve cover or something. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 08/07/16 at 20:51:42 If I was your local machinist and you brought me something to repair that YOU'd ruined, then tried to screw me down on price, I'd tell you to F... Off and fix it yourself. You'd pay my price and if you kept arguing I'd shove the cylinder head up your arse. Beggars can't be choosers, unfortunately. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/07/16 at 21:49:47 That's some good advice there gizzo. Painful, but potentially useful. I should probably be careful dealing with this person. I wonder, though... So many people are stuck on minimum wage and other low incomes, but these professionals think they have to have awful amounts of money or they'll go broke, even if their stuff is paid for and their overhead low. And they can't stand it if they don't get that much. What, is it that they feel they can make more money somewhere else? They can't imagine making minimum wage at their own business? Pride?Many poor people would be happy to get $10 an hour, much less $45 or more. Now $45 isn't too bad for a basic mechanic. It's probably the going rate. Don't know what the machinist charges. If he goes wanting $75-$100 an hour and ends up playing around till he asks hundreds This stingy little stinker ain't gonna be happy. >:( If a fellow is good at something and want's that much for his services, he must not enjoy doing it that much. Beggars... Ha... I'm not gonna be happy to do it myself, but, I'll tell you it isn't out of the question. And besides, I already have a quote (probably not a promise) of $75. He has to compete with that. That's how economics works, buddy--competition. He has to compete with the other guy and myself on price. This thing is a mutual agreement. In sucky monopolies, businesses get to charge whatever the heck they want to, even to the point that everyone wants to run them out of town with pitchforks, especially if it's a necessary commodity. Am I right? :-? Competition makes the world go round. It can also make life hard when you have a hard time competing. If one fellow can't do the best job for the best price, someone else will. If he's a hard workin' man who likes to cut metal, he'll do it for a fair price. Not necessarily an insulting price, but he'll be willing to work for his money. Telling someone to F off because they don't want to pay Donald Trump's salary is not a way to earn someone's business. And, yes, I'm stingy and tend to DIY, painful as it is. I reckon the lot of people on this forum are the same way. We're warned on this forum to stay away from so-called "stealerships." |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 08/08/16 at 02:57:39 OK. first of all, how do we know whether his premisis and equipment are paid for? We have no idea of his overheads. He has loan repayments, staff wages, workcover expenses, utilities and all the rest. Second: Pride has it's place. If he's a good engineer, he's worked hard to get where he is and deserves to be paid fairly for his skills. That's no different to a dentist or a lawer. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys, right? He didn't get into business in order to do people favours, he wants to make a decent living. Even if he does love what he's doing. Third: the poor people may well be happy to get $10 an hour. But they haven't invested huge amounts of effort and money into establishing a business to earn a living. Your idea of a fair price doesn't sound very fair to him. Fourth: your right about competiton. No ones forcing you to accept his services and you're within your rights to shop around, of course. If someone else can do the job cheaper, too bad for him and good luck to you. And if you have a quote for $75, that's what he ought to do it for. I wouldn't tell everyone who asked for a deal where to go. Just those ones who act as if they're entitled to it. And I have done. No biggie to me. I like to DIY it sa much as I can, too. But sometimes you just have to stump up the cash to get the job done right. You're reminding me of the guy who brought me a 5 speed landcruiser gearbox in a hessian sack in a million bits and expected me to do it for cheap because he'd already done half the work. Yeah right ::). |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Art Webb on 08/08/16 at 07:26:55 When I used to do auto repair on the side, one fellow asked me for a quote to do his brakes I told him my price, which was a fair compromise between shop rates and what a typical shop pays their mechanics (NOT $45 an hour) His response was he could get a crackhead to do it for $10 I said "Good for you, good luck getting your money back when you have to pay a real tech to fix what he crappity smacked up" fair pay has nothing to do with what your client makes per hour, it has everything to do with Fair Market Value If you want price controlled everything, move to a socialist country You'll likely get better pay yourself, as well, untill their economy collapses |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/08/16 at 08:35:16 Don't Harley mechanics make $10 an hour entry-level? And have to buy many of their own tools? AND they have to have spent massive amounts of money to go to some school beforehand? :cough MMI cough: I wonder how quickly these guys get their big pay raises? BTW, I don't think my politics would be considered very socialist, if you follow me in the TT. Yeah, the poor are vulnerable to socialism/marxism. I guess my words may have a hint of that state of mind. Well, at least minimum wage is not my only way of living. I still have support. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 09:30:53 Getting treated nice by a professional who Could charge you an arm and a leg is not hard. I do it all the time. The attitude is everything. Go in demanding and being suspicious and see how it goes. Or, remember that you are asking for help, and you've willing to wait while he takes care of others. An offer to sweep the floor, generally help out, never hurts. Be dressed and ready for it. How to explain why it's such a mess? You're probably gonna need to make dad the goat.. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/08/16 at 12:22:57 3A252324393E0F3F0F37252962500 wrote:
You mean I need a tuxedo for handling a greasy motor? ;D Nah... A old t-shirt and greasy pants should do the job... If he thinks I'm white trash for dressing in work clothes, well, then, we have other issues. I can't say I'm the " dress to impress" type these days. But then, if you're referring to not coming dressed in shorts or something that's unfit nasty work, then, yeah... you may have a point. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 14:48:19 Is it your goal to make trying to help you so frustrating that people just quit? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Oldfeller on 08/08/16 at 15:01:45 I think he is succeeding ...... |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Dave on 08/08/16 at 15:57:06 786761667B7C4D7D4D75676B20120 wrote:
I gave up during the 7 page fork oil incident...... :o |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/08/16 at 19:01:29 Now wait a minute... how did my quote of Justin suddenly turn into "dressed like a girl" ? Weird. Are the moderators playing tricks on us? Or was it my oversight? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/08/16 at 19:04:25 Yep... It really sounds like one of the moderators is trying to play a dirty joke. Really, guys? "dressed like a girl and ready for it"? A bit insulting don't ya think? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/08/16 at 19:09:17 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
Good advice. ;) I may have taken your words the wrong way about being dressed. At first I thought you meant dressing up and looking "professional" like wearing a polo shirt or something. Not only is that less than practical or appropriate in this instance, the concept itself irritates me. I guess I'm increasingly turning into a redneck or something. So far, none of the bike shops want me. They have other people laid off waiting to be hired ahead of me or similar situations where there are too many people. They don't want my volunteer work either. I just take away from the other's incentives, or they'd rather have my money than my labor. Just one thing or another. Interesting when you're not worthy to sweep floors... not even for free. My neighbor is willing to let me help him out. We'll see if this machinist he deals with will do the same. Maybe I can learn something. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 08/08/16 at 19:49:16 555E535746585341540402360 wrote:
That would make a nice change. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Art Webb on 08/09/16 at 07:58:25 Cheap said I wonder, though... So many people are stuck on minimum wage and other low incomes, but these professionals think they have to have awful amounts of money or they'll go broke, even if their stuff is paid for and their overhead low. And they can't stand it if they don't get that much. What, is it that they feel they can make more money somewhere else? They can't imagine making minimum wage at their own business? Pride?Many poor people would be happy to get $10 an hour, much less $45 or more. Now $45 isn't too bad for a basic mechanic. It's probably the going rate. Don't know what the machinist charges. If he goes wanting $75-$100 an hour and ends up playing around till he asks hundreds This stingy little stinker ain't gonna be happy. Angry If a fellow is good at something and want's that much for his services, he must not enjoy doing it that much. Translation I'm poor so I should pay less or He shouldn't charge me as much because i'm poor which leads to He has more than me, he should lose some of what he has, so I can have some of it the very foundation of socialism get it? I've been poor my whole life, and will be till i die, and that sucks, but I'm where I am because I'm there, no one else gets credit or blame for that. my attorney friend doesn't owe me free legal advice because his house cost 20x (at least) my yearly salary, the guy that's gonna check me and hook up my electrical doesn't owe me a discount on his services Life is what it is If you can't earn more, spend less but don't be so hardheaded you crappity smack your nuts up, take it to a pro to correct your ham fisted errors, and expect him to give you a break, skill costs, one way or the other, you're leaning by experience what he paid thousands of dollars to learn |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/09/16 at 13:26:48 I just did... And paid him one Ben Franklin to do it. :) |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 19:53:29 After looking at a random video of what appears to be someone taking a plasma cutter to various things, it just crossed my mind that we have a new, never used plasma cutter, and I wonder if I could have cut out that bolt or easy-out with that. Sure would have been better than Dad with the torch, right? :-? This whole situation is totally nuts, right? ;D |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Dave on 08/12/16 at 07:07:57 363D3034253B3022376761550 wrote:
Owning a brush doesn't make you an artist. Buying a scalpel doesn't make you a surgeon. Unless you have experience with these tools......you just can't plug them in and do what an experienced welder or machinist can do. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Art Webb on 08/12/16 at 07:16:09 BINGO! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 08/12/16 at 15:20:29 Yes!!!!! Go! Do it now! Take video! Show us how to cut a broken bolt from ali with a plasma cutter! Hurry, there's no time to waste. Break another bolt if you need to! Quickly. I need to see it! |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/12/16 at 16:03:03 ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by engineer on 08/13/16 at 12:50:55 So it sounds like you hired someone to remove the bolt from your head. After all these pages in this thread it would be nice to know exactly how the guy did it. Can you supply some details. Also, removing a broken off bolt with a plasma cutter would be a bad idea. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/13/16 at 17:07:05 Just didn't feel like talking about it. Lazy, you know. ;) Kinda busy, too, working on the bike and such. Here goes: I recently found that a neighbor of mine has gone into a sort of home business as a mechanic and fabricator. He prefers to get his machine work done by a certain local fellow. We weren't completely unaware of him. Dad's known of him for awhile. He's been about the only one willing to let me help him with his work, and I appreciate that. I've only worked with him one day, though. Anyway, he talked like he could get me a good deal with this dude via referral since he has such a relationship with him. Well, maybe.... :-/ I dropped off the engine and left it overnight with him. The machinist came the next day while I was there and gave me a quote of $100. Amongst comments of how messed up it was, he mentioned that it had been drilled into the aluminum (Dad gets the blame. I think I remember exactly when he did it, and no, I didn't ask him to do it, if I correctly recall. I think I jumped onto him for messing with it.) The machinist could see it, but I didn't have the eye for it. He said that the metric helicoil set would cost $30 and after asking he assured me that it was included in the price. He was also concerned that his supplier might not have the proper helicoil set in stock. Fortunately after contacting them, they did have it in stock. Strangely, he told my neighbor about this instead of me-- as though he were talking about something else. Confusing. :-? I mentioned the other guy's quote of $75, and then asked him how much he charges per hour. Yes, he became annoyed with me. He said that he charged $60 per hour and that it was cheaper than the other fellow and other mechanics. He mentioned how long he had been a machinist (all his life, or 40 years or something). After asking, I think he quoted an hour and said that it would be a "b!tch to get out." He talked and acted like he was about to give up on me and let me have the other fellow do it. I think I surprised him when I said all of the sudden, "Well, we'll go ahead and let you do it, then," or something like that. He turned around like :-?. I might have had to say it twice. He then immediately remarked about getting it loaded up in the truck. He was ready to go. He had to go get some cigarettes on his way to pick up the helicoil set. I had an appointment with the orthodontist, so I went home and brushed my teeth and got ready. He was going to let me watch him do it. He was waiting when I got back, and I followed him home to his little shop. We took maybe thirty minutes getting it on his big JET milling machine, and then found out that we had it positioned wrong so that the machine couldn't reach it at the proper angle. Then he had to help his wife with the lawnmower. Then I had to leave for my appointment. I left a little after 12:30, maybe 12:37-12:38. My appointment was at 1:30. It took me at least 30 minutes to get back there. I'd guess it was well after 2:00, perhaps 2:30 or more. When I got back, he said he had just finished it. If it took him nearly 2.5 hours and he had to spend $30 on parts, then he must have earned his money. Who's to say the other fellow would only have charged $75? Before the deal, he seemed to suggest that that price was due to the other fellow having the proper size thread inserts. He countersunk the hole a bit and put in 2 helicoil inserts. That's in addition to the metal already gone. When I put in the bolt, it felt springy and I was concerned about the bolt being able to catch enough threads to be strong. He seemed to think it would be okay. He just said not to torque it crazy tight. I asked about just using normal, appropriate torque, and he thought that would be okay. By the way, this whole time, I got him to do it without removing the head. Didn't want to pay for a head gasket. I helped him pack the engine around, and we plopped it on his big milling machine.... All 170+ lbs of it, and he got it done. Who's to say the other fellow would have been able or willing to do that? |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/13/16 at 17:13:38 One thing that's funny... I found the censoring system. I spelled "b!tch" properly, and it automatically changed it to "pregnant dog" once posted. I wonder what it would do to the other words... ;D If I go to modify it, though, it will show it as I originally wrote it. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/13/16 at 18:40:58 As for the tensioner mod, apart from the learning experience of it and the fact that I got it done then and there, I'd have been better off with one of Verslagen's tensioners. I didn't accept that he had the best deal on these, and when he quoted $100 the only day I could have him do it, I was upset. :( He explained that this other person (Verslagen) was probably "set up" for making these tensioners. He wondered what I had expected, $50? (He was about right). He would not compromise on price at all, and I was about to walk off on him and ask Versy for one. I had just previously started to call home for advice, and I didn't... but I must have done enough... for I mysteriously heard my Dad's voice. Looking around, there was no one. I then reached in my pocket and started talking to my parents. (Sounds hillarious, right. ;D). They advised me to go ahead and do it, so I did. I was still upset. Having consulted him and having shown him the part the previous evening, I asked him why he didn't give me a quote then , and he said that he didn't know exactly what I wanted. We went ahead and went through with it. I stayed with him the entire time, thinking and going over the exact measurements with him and guiding him step by step. I watched him use a stick welder to put on the new eyelet (well, not really I'm not stupid.) ;D. He ground on it and milled it some and ground some more to thin the metal down and smooth it into shape. He drilled the hole. I explained that I wanted the lower hole functional as well, so he agreed to redrill it (it had been damaged by the welding.) The most difficult, complicated thing was probably the slot and pin--figuring out the proper measurements. Indeed, it was hard metal as I saw smoke rise and may have heard the squeal. He had lubed it too. He milled the slot a certain distance, maybe 3/4" or 7/8." It needed a few millimeters more, so he extended the slot an additional 1/8". He milled the slot around .005" on each side, and then he kept milling a few swipes on one side. I asked him why, and he pretty much explained that it was off-center or something. (Now that I'm at home, I can actually see it. It still engages the pawl ever so slightly cockeyed.) The slot still allows the plunger to bottom out well before it reaches the end of the slot. The slot could actually have afforded being one millimeter forward, as the maximum travel is now a conservative 18 mm. It's okay, though. One time, when he was preparing to drill the plunger, and I jammed my foot halfway down my throat. He was still moving the machine head around. I blurted out a doubt about having it centered. He replied something like "Good God, No! :o" He asked if I thought he would do that or why, I forget exactly which. I simply replied that "I talk too much." http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Confused/redface-oops-6.gif He said, "I can understand your concern..." or "I can understand your concern, but..." Something like that. He was just astounded. Maybe I have trust issues? :-? Seem familiar? Perhaps, I'm not used to someone so careful and disciplined. I tend to call 'em as I see 'em. It can backfire sometimes. As I said before, as indecisive as I am, I wasn't sure I was happy with how far the roll pin was driven in. (He had cut it with a bit of excess-- about 1/4" long.) He had only one size roll pin suitable to fit it (1/8"). He gave it a just a little extra pounding, maybe one little whack, and then it started rubbing the spring, it seemed. :( He believed it would be okay. And you know the rest. In all, it took at least two hours or more, not including the talk before the job. He's a peculiar fellow in personality. He fits the machinist idea well. There's no "close." It has to be right. He says he has never compromised on price. Having been a machinist since the 70's, he was most comfortable with English units. Nearly everything was fractions of inches in his mind. It seemed that all his parts and tooling were in inches, hence his lack of metric helicoils. He had metric wrenches and such, though. I would actually bring him the engine, and he helped me pull the cover and remove the tensioner during the consultation. We then put it back, and then we did much the same (I forget whether I did most of the removing the second time. :-/) the next day for the mod. Anyway, I had offered to help out or sweep floors or something before he drilled the head, and he replied that he had a wife to do that for him. Perhaps he was more of a loner sort. :-? My neighbor explained that he had dealt with helpers in the past and was done with that idea. With his saying that he would never compromise on price, I mentioned the idea of competing and such. I think he explained in so many words that he had a monopoly in the local neighborhood for machinework. For the hours of work he put in, I guess he got his money fair and square, and my neighbor said that he trusted him more than all the other machinists he had dealt with before combined. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by gizzo on 08/14/16 at 02:13:14 It occurred to me to ask, do you get customers at your work negotiating the price before agreeing to purchase a pizza? I find your constant talk of negotiating the price with the machinist and playing him off against another somewhat tasteless (not to mention cutting Versy's lunch. Boo). If you were a regular customer of his, it would be fair but for one off job, well you're lucky he didn't take my approach. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by KennyG on 08/14/16 at 06:04:10 I will bet The Kid's parents are still waiting on the phone call. |
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Title: Re: Broken bolt in the head Post by Art Webb on 08/14/16 at 06:58:43 Sometimes having a 'helper' can do more harm than good, and I can see that being even truer for a machinist, because the work has to be meticulous if the guy is charging $60 and hour, you got your money's worth, especially with him having a monopoly |
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