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Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 03:26:44

Title: Whatever floats your boat
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 03:26:44

Or, whatever it costs to get it to float.

f particular concern is the ship’s arresting gear, used to catch landing aircraft, which is "unlikely to support high-intensity flight operations" and "is well below expectations and well below what is needed to succeed in combat."

Tests show that the arresting gear could only be used 25 times consecutively before failing.

The ship’s launch system is better, but far from ideal. While the system should be able to perform 4,166 takeoffs before critical failures, tests show the USS Gerald Ford’s can only conduct 400 before requiring significant maintenance.

"Based on current reliability estimates, the CVN-78 is unlikely to conduct high-intensity flight operations at the outset of war," Gilmore wrote.

The warship’s radar systems are also a concern. The effectiveness of the dual-band radar, used for both self-defense and air-traffic control, "is unknown," according to Gilmore.

The ship has already seen a number of delays. Christened in 2013, it was originally scheduled to be delivered to the US Navy in September 2014. Last week

So, after All these years of building launch and retrieval systems, now, we CAN'T? Did they not build scale model and TEST!? If you're using a new design or new types of materials, you have to test things before you build it .

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by raydawg on 07/24/16 at 06:36:31

6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:

Bub, last two Boeing AC were computer built, 777, & 787. The old way of mock ups and wind tunnels, etc, are becoming obsolete.
I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, so if another who is, I gladly yield.
Of course we still have "test flights" to prove the craft, once assembled, but I would be surprised if its more than a couple anymore, before handing over to the customer.

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 07:05:45

I don't know how they went about designing the carrier and its equipment. I'm just looking at what it cost and how well it works. I probably wouldn't accept a free ride on the maiden voyage of a newly designed airplane. But I expect the planes will perform satisfactorily and safely...
The degree computer Design is a question. I'm aware of CAD, but I don't know how much the computer decides.
Does It spec out the load bearing capacity of the wheel bearings? Does it lay out Where the spars go in the wings, or, are those things determined by an engineer who Tells the computer where to put them? Or, does a computer Design a wing that is of X wingspan or less that will create Y pounds of lift at Z MPH airspeed AND tolerate predicted G loads?

The ships inabilities to operate and throw and catch planes all day without needing major maintenance is, IMO, inexcusable.
We have years of experience in building Better. Just because a machine spits out a design doesn't mean that someone should just trot off and build it. I would probably take the design and compare it to the best equipment that had been built to date.
But, that is just me. I tend to think things through a bit.

If, for example, the new design calls for an arresting cable made of a new material, I would have to design a scale test bed and beat the snot outta the stuff.

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 08:29:11

http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-all-the-problems-with-the-f-35-that-the-pentagon-found-in-a-2014-report-2015-3

More excellent work...
The Difference is the Money for designing and building comes out of taxpayer pockets for the boondoggles.
Versus monies that must be recovered from Sales.

Boeing must turn a profit because people Voluntarily purchase their product.

The military ventures have reached
The hole is too deep to fill in, walk away and start over
spot. The money will just Be There.

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by raydawg on 07/24/16 at 09:17:32

77686E6974734272427A68642F1D0 wrote:

No, not really, the subsidies prolly more closely resemble working welfare, like too big to fail, mindset.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't slamming it, the money generated at Boeing creates much economy that allows lifestyles to many, many people.
It is a perfect example of a partnership between business, and government.
Sure, some folks complain about exorbitant salaries, but those who complain are clueless.
They have no idea the "selling of their souls" these folks pay in their personal life relationships.....
To me, it's not worth it, but they must believe otherwise, I guess.

Those that whine are just plain old envious ;D

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 09:46:38

It is a perfect example of a partnership between business, and government.

Sometimes unavoidable, but not desirable. Far too common.

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by raydawg on 07/24/16 at 10:25:29

524D4B4C51566757675F4D410A380 wrote:

It is a perfect example of a partnership between business, and government.

Sometimes unavoidable, but not desirable. Far too common.

Jog, think of it like this....

A new car sells for 50,000 dollars.
It provided for a local economy.
It gets re-sold....
That, provides for a new revenue for a local economy.

One commodity.
One initial cost factor.
Yet.....
It can foster all sorts of income.

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/16 at 16:37:16

When government
Invests My Money in a company, but not their competition, is that right?
I'm not so unsophisticated that I don't understand economy and velocity of money. Government has no business in business, period.

Businesses go broke when operated unwisely.. And that's good.
The demands of the markets will cause someone to fill that void.
It's all that
Must Avoid PAIN!
that's screwing st u ff up.
The QE stuff? Bad. Banker bailout? Done WRONG.. If we are going to Give Money away, give it to the mortgage holder, then They pay the Loan off,, Who loses? Taxpayer..But their Neighbors aren't homeless..
The bankers should have been jailed, banks closed if insolvent.

Look at Iceland. Look what they did and how it's working.

We shouldn't have bailed out the bank s Or mortgage holders. If the banks knowingly and intentionally made loans that they believed would not, could not, be paid, they should be saddled with the loss, jailed.

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by Paraquat on 07/25/16 at 09:29:46

Boeing makes money because it has a fiscal need. There is competition in the market. There is a demand to answer to shareholders.

The military... not so much.
Especially not with the no-bid contracts we saw with Halliburton.

--Steve

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/16 at 10:07:53

There are several ways to explain the overages and shortcomings...
1. the gov does pay to keep skills/capabilities active.
I know of 1 guy who wasn't allowed to retire cause he was the only 1 left who knew how to do something... he didn't tell me what.
If you're building... whatever, 1 right after another, then skills are honed.
If not, skills are lost.
2. this retiring thing means that a lot of new blood has to hired and all they know is computer analysis... no practical. If the software tells me there is a peak stress in the middle of nowhere, I use my intelligence and say it's not real based on experience. The kid has no experience and will work the problem till it either magically disappears or beefs up the materials till it doesn't matter.
3. another point is mfg. you maybe able to design it, but it might not be able to be made. If you don't know how things are made, how can you design them? We see this a lot in our own engine, oil channels that are drilled and plugged, 1 that's between the cover and case. Can you imagine doing this for the 1st time?

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/16 at 10:49:07

Can you imagine doing this for the 1st time?

You have No idea the things I imagine doing
For the first time... :)

Title: Re: Whatever floats your boat
Post by Paraquat on 07/26/16 at 09:28:20

32213637282523212A75440 wrote:

2. this retiring thing means that a lot of new blood has to hired and all they know is computer analysis... no practical. If the software tells me there is a peak stress in the middle of nowhere, I use my intelligence and say it's not real based on experience. The kid has no experience and will work the problem till it either magically disappears or beefs up the materials till it doesn't matter.
3. another point is mfg. you maybe able to design it, but it might not be able to be made. If you don't know how things are made, how can you design them? We see this a lot in our own engine, oil channels that are drilled and plugged, 1 that's between the cover and case. Can you imagine doing this for the 1st time?

ALL.
THE.
FV*&ING.
TIME.

--Steve