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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> locktite on the front pulley. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1470932244 Message started by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 09:17:24 |
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Title: locktite on the front pulley. Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 09:17:24 Dad's got a sealed bottle of high temp red threadlocker (Permatex). I'm doing the chain conversion, and I'm going to be removing the front sprocket from time to time to change ratios. Would it be a really stupid idea to use that stuff? Should I just go get some blue threadlocker? Something else? That stuff is expensive. What do you guys usually use on that nut? It had red on it, but who knows if it is the same stuff as conventional red threadlocker. That stuff is supposedly evil. Heck, that blue stuff is as tough as nails. I put indentations in a nut/bolt (upper engine mount) with a 12 point wrench just trying to break loose the blue stuff. For the other bolt, I found a ratchet and 6 point. That made the job noticeably easier. I'm aware that the shaft will get screwed (which means $$$$) if that nut doesn't stay crazy tight. I don't want to destroy something when I need it loose either. It actually wasn't too tough for me to get it loose the first time. I just used a 3/4 inch drive with 1-1/4" socket and adjusted the rear brake and finished tightening the brake cable by using adjusting the rear wheel backwards. Then I put it in first gear. With the two different systems (brake and engine) working together, it reduced the chance of breaking something. I wonder... Is threadlocker less effective on larger diameter bolts? |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by BSTON on 08/11/16 at 09:24:56 The Loctite website states that the red is for permanent locking and can only be removed with heat...so if you're wanting to change anything in the future I'd suggest using the blue at most. The blue is "designed for the locking and sealing of threaded fasteners which require normal disassembly with standard hand tools." That's what I would classify a sprocket as. Even if you're not going to be switching out to different sizes frequently, the sprocket is going to eventually wear out and need to be replaced. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by Serowbot on 08/11/16 at 10:29:05 I'd leave e any Locktite off until you decide on a ratio... Once you've picked one, use blue if you want,.. but most importantly... use a new fold washer... Don't skimp on the washer... |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 11:01:21 So, I should order another oem splined washer??? Does it need to be replaced every time remove it or something? That's waaay too many washers getting thrown away... Can't I just get by fine by bending/adjusting it or replacing as needed? |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/16 at 12:53:12 Yes, sometimes you can, but consider the lesson you've learned (at least I hope you did) with the header bolt. replacement cost + cost to replace + shoes. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by youzguyz on 08/11/16 at 13:00:50 Remember. That pulley/sprocket takes hits going both ways (accel and decel). That washer is what saves the bacon. You can reuse it a few times, by bending it in different areas. Maybe 3 times? It's only $1.32.. buy a few .. When I got my "backup bike", I never checked the pulley. The PO did not bend the washer over.. the results weren't catastrophic, but only because I pay attention to odd noises and the guard that fits over the pulley kept it from departing the motorcycle. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by BSTON on 08/11/16 at 14:15:32 707B7672637D7664712127130 wrote:
If washers are too expensive, it may be time to just walk everywhere. You're probably one of the people that tried E85 to save a few bucks. :-? |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 14:28:24 Alright, I'll get a spare or two if they're that cheap. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 14:29:47 5D4B515E43515D5E240 wrote:
Does he mean that one should not bend it more than once in the same place? :-? |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by HovisPresley on 08/11/16 at 14:46:21 Yes, ideally, but look up 'metal fatigue'. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 15:05:58 Ever took a piece of wire and bend it over and over? Eventually, it would break. I get it.... But only once??? :-? Okay... maybe it weakens a little??? I don't know.... :-/ I guess it strikes me weird when you can only bend something like that once and then have to throw it away. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by youzguyz on 08/11/16 at 15:48:45 272C2125342A2133267670440 wrote:
Does he mean that one should not bend it more than once in the same place? :-?[/quote] That's what he means. It;s been bent once.. to put it on. You bend it again (back) .. in the same place.. to take it off. When you put it on again, pick someplace that hasn't been bent yet. You can do that at least once for sure. It's what I have done in the past. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/11/16 at 15:54:31 Okay. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by Armen on 08/11/16 at 19:47:10 The whole folding lock tab thing is a real sore point with me. That system should have disappeared decades ago. Virtually every high miles late model Bonnie that I put on the lift has a loose sprocket nut. Same with vintage Suzi-Qs. I always blamed the previous person for not doing it right, until I started finding loose nuts on the sprockets I had installed. Did a lot of research, and talked to some of the industry gods about the issue. Here's what I found out: Heavy equipment manufacturer Allis Chalmers saw this problem many decades ago. They finally figured out that it was the deformation of the captive washer that was allowing the nuts or bolts to loosen. Basically, if the washer is soft enough to bend easily, it's soft enough to squish under the repeated rubbing back and forth caused by acceleration and engine braking. They just ditched that system, as did Honda. Some of the bike companies still use it. Talked to a guy who built 200HP front row Ducs for AMA Superbike and asked him what he did. Start by making sure the splines are clean. Then coat the splines with anti-seize so that no rust forms. Install the sprocket, then put a layer of anti-sieze between the sprocket and the lock tab. That allows the sprocket to not drag the washer back and forth with it as it moves on the splines. Red Loctite on the nut, tighten the crap out of it, then fold over the tab in two places. After the tab is folded over, take a center punch and punch the washer against the nut in a few places. The idea is to make sure the washer travels with the nut. I've used that system for a while. No problems. Red Loctite breaks pretty easily with a decent impact gun. -Armen |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by KennyG on 08/11/16 at 20:23:10 Armen, Your post should be in the Technical Section. I think you are the first person here to really delve into the bent washer situation..... Thank You! Kenny G |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by Armen on 08/11/16 at 20:33:41 Thanks Kenny, I had to. it was making me crazy :o -Armen |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/16 at 21:04:48 Geez, Armen, absolutely clear to me. But now well have 6 more pages from the kid. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by KennyG on 08/11/16 at 21:26:22 Verslagen, If I was The Kid's parent I would be waiting for a call from the hospital. Kenny G :-/ |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by Dave on 08/12/16 at 04:34:12 Armen: I haven't used the anti-sieze.....but I always bend up two tabs and I have a really big set of Channel locks that works very well in getting the bend in the washer tight against the nut, then take a punch and make sure the fold is tight against the base of the nut. I do clean the nut and shaft threads.....and I use blue threadlocker. |
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Title: Re: locktite on the front pulley. Post by Armen on 08/12/16 at 07:16:26 Hey Dave, Whatever works for you. I'm not very scared of red loctitie. It's only the green (sleeve and bushing mount) that will get you in trouble. The blue stuff is kinda dickless. -Armen |
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