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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> National Carry Permits /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1481071186 Message started by Dagillespi on 12/06/16 at 16:39:46 |
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Title: National Carry Permits Post by Dagillespi on 12/06/16 at 16:39:46 http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill-drawn-up-for-next-congress/ Looks like it'll really have a shot (pun intended) at passing this go round. What do you guys think. Personally I'm all for it I live near the PA NY border so when I go up I've gotta remember to leave it at home. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by old.indian on 12/06/16 at 16:59:05 I can think of several states where this would not fly. (California, and Massachusetts for example...) |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by pg on 12/06/16 at 17:24:42 (California, and Massachusetts for example...) The left will certainly not like authoritarianism when the shoe is on the other foot. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/06/16 at 17:27:50 LOLOL. Carried After 1971, when Minn adopted the, (then new carry law), which was, ‘How Much Do you Grease, the Local Sheriff”. (Before 1971, Carry a Firearm, concealed or not, was Not a Issue. The, ‘PC’, people, Made it a Issue) (Who does NOT, understand, ‘CONCEALED CARRY” ?) After the, ’Newer Law’, was adopted, I thought I should be, Legal. So Got a MN CC Permit. Drive to AZ, and Pass through Many States. Where, (I Don’t Know), I may/may not, have permission. (Don’t Care) But when I get to AZ, I do. So Nation Wide. YES. Couple of years ago, had to drive from AZ to Calf. AZ, was Legal. Calf, was not. (Rather be Judged by 12, then buried by one) If Calf, (and the Like States), want to Eliminate, FREEDOM. So Be it. I don’t, (and never will), live in one of those States. So, the time comes, when have to go to Calf again? Don’t Care! |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/06/16 at 17:57:41 We are Not their yet. (“Star Trek”, times) When that Times come, Perhaps, “Shooting a Lead Projectile with rapidly expanding gasses”, (as a Sport). Maybe, Just Maybe, become the Norm. (Probably after, “Faster than, ‘Light speed”, drive is achieved) Until then. Firearms, Owned and carried, by law abiding CITIZENS, PROTECT, your, Life, and Liberty. And the ‘PC Correct”, ‘ Safe Places’, and ‘Gun Free Zones’, Are just Fish in a Barrel ! |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Dagillespi on 12/06/16 at 18:05:46 Well in my opinion the won't fly in some states is my favorite part. The right to bear arms is just that a right not a privilege and in my admittedly bias opinion should be nationally recognized. If I'm safe to drive a motor vehicle in California with my PA. drivers license then why isn't my carry license reciprocated equally. If I'm not a psychopath murderer here why would I be anywhere else. This is coming from someone who was army infantry, current corrections officer, and member of the CERT team. So again admittedly very bias. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by old.indian on 12/06/16 at 19:00:51 To be truthful, many people who carry weapons shouldn't. Many police are killed or injured by "friendly fire". Many who would not be confrontive, when carrying start a confrontation and then when they are getting their ass kicked pull out their 9mm manhood and kill someone they should have left alone ???? (Zimmerman is an example of this type of stupid.) I have a friend who is a police range safety officer, and I was a Weapons instructor in the Marines...We compared notes on just how truly STUPID people who were trained to use firearms could act. We scared each other..... |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by WebsterMark on 12/07/16 at 04:54:31 76757D3770777D707877190 wrote:
Yea, I'm throwing the Bull$hit flag indian. I searched very hard time finding stories about a cop accidentally shot by a legally armed citizen who had stepped into a situation. I found a bunch about highly trained professional officers shooting each other however. Say what you want about Zimmerman, but given all the cops shot down in cold blood, consider this: Zimmerman's still walking around and a young punk on his way to being a career criminal isn't. In St. Louis this yesr, we've 3 cops shot, 2 killed, 1 paralyzed for life. When one of those stories hits the news, I always think Darrin Wilson and his family are sure glad he's alive because he defended himself against Michael Brown. Point is, lets live in Realsville.....People who live the in states with carry laws aren't stepping over the dead bodies of innocent civilians on their to work in the morning. The situation you've describing is rare, certainly rare enough not to delete the 2nd amendment over. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Paraquat on 12/07/16 at 06:17:47 52515913545359545C533D0 wrote:
Please, offer citation rather than opinion. http://www.forcescience.org/articles/naiveshooter.pdf Here is a really nice paper I found. It states that between 21 and 45 feet, even an "expert shooter" has less than a 40% hit rate. I'll take my own chances. http://crimeresearch.org/2015/05/concealed-handgun-permit-holder-saves-police-officer-who-was-being-savagely-beaten-by-burglar/ Here's a directly contradictory article. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/officer_peril.htm Here's a collection of articles contradictory to your opinion. --Steve |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by WebsterMark on 12/07/16 at 07:00:39 One day, perhaps soon, there will be an interesting court case before the Supreme Court about carry laws. Look at the recent case which effectively legalized gay marriage or as mentioned, look at driver's licenses. States can have different laws, but when an issue is deemed a national right so to speak, all states must be on the same page. someone will be arrested or fined for carrying in a state with carry laws different from his state. the argument before the court will be the 2nd amendment is a federal issue and all states must recognize the law from another state. This is how gay marriage is 'legal' now in all states. now, the liberals will howl and cry, but what's fair for the goose is fair for the gander as they say. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by old.indian on 12/07/16 at 07:10:35 Operative words being "Many people" . There was a recent incident in Santa Fe where an officer was shot and wounded by a 2nd officer in a confrontation with an UNARMED suspect. In Albuquerque one officer was shot IN THE HEAD (at a range of 3 feet) by an APD supervisor during a drug bust... In NYC 2 cops shot an armed suspect.. The suspect never got off a shot, but EIGHT(8) bystanders were wounded.... Zimmerman WAS NOT A COP ! He confronted someone when the police told him not to. He got out of his car when the police told him to stay in it ... I have some very real questions to pose to you... How many real honest to OH SH*T fire fights have you been involved in ????? Have you ever directly observed any real life armed confrontations ???? Have you ever been involved in a situation where you were so enraged that if you were armed you might have used it ??? Real life is NOT a game. Once the firing pin hits the primer you can't request a "do over". |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/16 at 08:03:08 Cops telling someone to Stay in the car Is Advice. They are not your daddy. Calling the cops and reporting suspicious activity doesn't subjugate the citizen. The cop doesn't become the commanding officer. If I call the fire department to report a fire, am I not allowed to pick up a hose and do what I can? What makes a cop so God like? They weren't born with a badge and a gun. They were kids in school, and chose a career. They're Just people, and Subject to error. What if he had obeyed and the punk slipped away and wound up doing something really bad to someone who didn't have a gun? A quick look at how the media covered Jefferson and the facts that eventually cleared the cop make it evident to me that racial division and making armed citizens look dangerous are goals of the media. The facts about what happened when Mike Brown was killed were readily available, but the media busied themselves quoting Witnesses who saw what cameras and evidence didn't support. Mike Brown was a thug and got killed. The mess in Jefferson was a contrived bunch of crap. Professional protesters, any objective analysis will see the connections, but only after the Appreciation for the Free and Objective Media is dissolved after coming to grips with the fact that it doesn't exist. There is an agenda that goes beyond market share. Gee ,what are the odds? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eZVv2AOCnaA |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by WebsterMark on 12/07/16 at 08:54:14 Operative words being "Many people" . You post suggested police were being killed by non-police citizens firing indiscriminately and police were being hit. I don't think that's true. If you intended to say even trained police can hit unintended targets in the heat of the moment, I would have agreed with you, but that's not what you said. Zimmerman WAS NOT A COP ! He confronted someone when the police told him not to. He got out of his car when the police told him to stay in it ... I don't really care about Zimmerman, but my point was, without a gun, Zimmerman could be dead. I'm not turning this into debate on Zimmerman per se. I live in St. Louis, 15 minutes from Ferguson. Imagine if some average Joe told the thug Brown to get the F out of the street. If that had happened, that guy might be dead today. Wilson was a cop with a gun. He's alive today. I have some very real questions to pose to you... How many real honest to OH SH*T fire fights have you been involved in ????? None Have you ever directly observed any real life armed confrontations ???? Nope Have you ever been involved in a situation where you were so enraged that if you were armed you might have used it ??? Nope Real life is NOT a game. Once the firing pin hits the primer you can't request a "do over". So what's your point? Only you super special people, ex military, ex police trained and experienced can carry a weapon? The rest of us slugs are stupid, ignorant and incapable of rational thought or actions. We must bow down to you boys in blue and if you don't happen to be there and we get killed, oh well too f'ing bad. "At least that civilian didn't have a gun or someone might have gotten hurt" you'll say. Screw that. I don't believe people should be forced to turn 100% of their personal security over to 'trained" experts who from what I've seen lately, aren't exactly the model of how to act in a life threatening situation either. Don't get me wrong, the police are far more likely to handle the situation in the correct manner and if force is needed, far more likely to acted rationally. But, the condescending idea that only a few are worthy, capable of being armed is bull$hit. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/16 at 09:26:12 Since the court has ruled that the police are not constitutionally bound to protect us, just exactly who is my protector? Since the beginning of time people have been killing and being killed. Those who are able to protect themselves do. Holding a hand out, crying out, No, please don't as the assailant pulls the trigger isn't a good plan. I don't carry, locally, but I'm sure thinking about what I should have with me when I'm travelling, alone, on the bike. I Do, Always, have a lock blade knife sitting parallel to my billfold with a leather fob I can grab. Usually I can have it out and open in seconds. And, yes, I have used a knife twice. Once to ward off an attack and once to End an attack.. I'll bet he never started another fight. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by oldNslow on 12/07/16 at 19:16:51 OldIndian wrote: Quote:
To be truthful. the fact that some, or even many, people should not carry weapons based on your notion of what is responsible , safe, properly trained or whatever, is IMO not sufficient reason to tell ME( or any other particular individual) that I( he or she) can't. Your anecdotal allegations about other peoples' qualifications to safely and responsibly carry a gun - or to do anything else for that matter, even if accurate; and I submit to you that they are not, are completely irrelevant. Stupid, irresponsible, evil.and otherwise brain-fu*ked people make up a portion of the human race; always have, always will. I won't willingly submit to having the freedom to choose the way I behave, and the things I do, constrained by the actions of those folks. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/16 at 21:24:58 Well meaning but misguided people have made dying by lead poisoning a common problem in Chicago. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MShipley on 12/08/16 at 11:47:44 I have two friends at church which are State Police Officers......there advise is "Get a gun, we don't get there till it's over". I would rather go to jail for defending my family than watching them die. I think that this advice should apply no matter what state I happen to be in. After all, I am an American first, that happens to be a Virginian. ;) |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by verslagen1 on 12/08/16 at 13:48:40 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
'Well meaning'?!?! Most of the gun toting people in Chicago are not well meaning by a long shot. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by pg on 12/08/16 at 15:48:44 11 STATES WITH CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY (in chronological order): Vermont has had Constitutional Carry since the nation's founding in 1791 -- they never enacted any law banning the right to discreetly bear arms. Montana enacted Constitutional Carry in 1991, for all areas outside city limits (99.4% of the state), and is working on the rest. Alaska enacted Constitutional Carry in 2003. Texas enacted Constitutional Carry "light" in 2007. as the "Motorist Protection Act," freeing people to carry in their vehicles, and to and from their vehicles and their homes, land or business. Arizona got full Constitutional Carry in 2010, and the sky has not fallen, despite desperate fears to the contrary. Wyoming enacted Constitutional Carry for residents in 2011. Arkansas passed HB1700 (Act 746) on August 16, 2013 to get Constitutional Carry. Kansas pushed Constitutional Carry through with widespread support in 2015. West Virginia had to override the Governor's veto to pass the law in early March 2016. Idaho pushed it through and got it signed later in March 2016. Mississippi succeeded in enacting Constitutional Carry in April 2016. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by raydawg on 12/08/16 at 16:33:27 Well cool.....ain't it. The libs want to protest, demonstrate, disrupt..... It seems to always turn to mayhem. They riot, loot, and extend their free speech to an extreme. The media blames Trump. Maybe this national carry will retard the verve, with which these constitutional savvy folk express themselves ;D |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/08/16 at 18:07:06 5245434F4050220 wrote:
And look at ALL, the Crime, Those, ‘Gun Tote’n Neanderthals’, have caused. All those, shooting in the Streets. All those Police, bystanders, and kids, killed by stray bullets. All those little disagreements, ending in GUN FIRE. All those people shot while driving. (due to, ’Road-Rage’) Oh, Wait ! That right, their Weren’t ANY !!!!!! |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/16 at 22:47:10 3D2E3938272A2C2E257A4B0 wrote:
'Well meaning'?!?! Most of the gun toting people in Chicago are not well meaning by a long shot. [/quote] The well meaning, wrongheaded ones are the ones making having a gun illegal. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/16 at 22:50:36 Remember the blood curdling screaming and crying when some state decided to make concealed carry legal in bars? Gonna be blood running in the streets. I'd STFU if I was always wrong. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/11/16 at 09:03:43 Quote:
Good point.....we should be carrying sawed off shotguns.... Many want the CC law to be country wide....Most, if not all of you will cry states rights. So do you believe in states rights only with the laws that you don't agree with? You either believe in states rights or you don't. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/16 at 10:59:04 PD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News Fox News › 2012/08/25 › nypd-shooting... Aug 25, 2012 - Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times. Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither ... 2012 Empire State Building shooting - Wikipedia Wikipedia › wiki › 2012_Empire_State_... On August 24, 2012, a gunman shot and killed a former co-worker ... Three of the bystanders were directly hit by police gunfire, while the rest of the injuries were caused by fragments of ricocheting ... 'I'm so sorry': Australian police probed after shooting 3 bystanders CNN.com › 2016/06/10 › asia › australia... Jun 10, 2016 - Two cops shoot three bystanders 00:56 ... Houston shooting: Gunman aimed at police, bystanders; 2 dead ... been wielding the knife was also shot and is in hospital under police guard. New York Cops Fatally Shoot Knife-Wielding Man, Wound ... Vice › news › article › new-york-police-... May 18, 2016 - Police officer who shot man looks traumatized #NYC pic.twitter.com/zQPJfn7pqo ... The wounded bystander, who was hit in the wrist, and one officer were transported to Bellevue ... Cops Wound Bystander While Shooting at Man Waving Gun on ... Vice › news › article › cops-wound-bysta... Jan 23, 2016 - A juvenile bystander was injured when police opened fire on a man brandishing a gun in front of the ... The notion that police are somehow imbued with an innate ability to be more accurate than the practiced average Jane is the product of propaganda. They are just PEOPLE who chose a career field. Are we really being Protected by The Best people for the job? No. Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops - ABC News abcnews.go.com › story Sep 8, 2000 - A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city. ... Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average. US Court Says it's Okay for Police Departments to Refuse to Hire ... thefreethoughtproject.com › court-police... Sep 28, 2014 - The standard range of scores applied for police officers is a score between 20 and 27. ... London's claim, they are still justified in refusing applicants with high IQs “because it matters not ... Ex-CIA Contractor Confirms: Police Departments Use Tests to ... filmingcops.com › ex-cia-contractor-con... Evidently if an applicant shows signs of relatively high IQ — with excellent logical ... of compassion — that applicant will be weeded out of the hiring process. ..... the police in america and the populace is growing tired of it and won't tolerate it ... Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ Scores ... countercurrentnews.com › 2014/04 › pol... Apr 21, 2014 - Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ ... While a rare exception to the rule might slip through the cracks, if you are too smart, police departments simply won't hire you. Police officially refuse to hire applicants with high IQ scores - ... Reddit › conspiracy › comments › police... Jul 26, 2014 - You won't be able to vote or comment. ... Police officially refuse to hire applicants with high IQ scores ... Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ Scores ... politicalblindspot.com › police-officially-... Oct 30, 2013 - That's not to say that all cops are stupid… Just that if you're too smart, the police simply won't hire you. Can Someone Be Too Smart To Be A Cop? - MintPress News www.mintpressnews.com › can-someone... Jun 18, 2014 - Ever called a police officer “stupid” or questioned whether he was actually ... have to be overhauled to allow the force to hire high IQ individuals, ..... I'm sure you won't have any trouble. If cops have I.Q. cap that means that cops are too dumb to make life ... investmentwatchblog.com › if-cops-have... Jun 5, 2015 - Police Officially Refuse To Hire Applicants With High IQ Scores. It's long been rumo The court has ruled they are under no constitutional duty to PROTECT us. It's their job to arrest the creep after they are finished doing to you what they will. Yes, a cop Can choose to put himself in danger to protect you, but they are not required to. Who, then, IS responsible for YOUR protection? You. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/11/16 at 14:07:25 Amen JOG The individual must take responsibility for what he does or does not do. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/16 at 14:12:19 Including being made a victim of. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 12/11/16 at 18:13:55 Maybe while there at it they can work on states like NY charging $440 just for a gun license, or the fact that in NYC, unless your a retired cop, you have a better chance of getting struck by lightening while a meteorite simultaneously hits you in the head then you do getting a concealed carry permit. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by thumperclone on 12/11/16 at 18:23:38 if I understand Colorado law I can open carry in the 70s we had rifle racks in the back window of pick ups you don't see those anymore maybe cause of thieves? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/11/16 at 18:56:09 514D504855405746494A4B40250 wrote:
Could be. Could be, Thieves because, they can not afford one, or want to sell one. Next step, WHY, did they need that money, (Steeling the firearm) Was it that they were, Hungry ? Was it that they wanted a, ‘fix’, (Drugs ???) Or it could be, the fact, that, firearms Laws are SO, “Grease the Palm”, in other places. They came their to get a, ‘easy’ one? Or could it be that, they were NEVER, Brought up, to, ‘respect’ someone else’s property? Here, at 6- Am +/- at a Local Cafe, for Coffee. the 20 +/- cars/truck outside, have their keys IN Them. And if it is -20, probably a 1/3 of them are running. (Nice and warm when you get in) But, BEWARE THIEVES, Snowbanks can get very big, and the Coyotes, will scatter your bones, LONG before the Snow Melts. (Does that not go back to: ‘respect’ someone else’s property?) Is it time, to clean, (not only the Swamp), but the gene Pool as well ? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/16 at 23:11:36 3529342C312433222D2E2F24410 wrote:
Thieves and being harassed by cops. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/12/16 at 05:11:12 Quote:
I don't disagree that the cost is a rip off. It is too high here in TN as well. The cost should not be over the administrative costs IMO. ..... but .... What happened to the idea of 'States Rights'? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 12/12/16 at 07:14:38 434E535D270 wrote:
I don't feel states rights are applicable when they relate to the infringement of rights explicitly stated in the constitution such as the 2nd amendment. States also shouldn't have the right to decide if a person has a right to freedom of speech or the freedom of the press to criticize the government either. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/12/16 at 07:48:32 I don't remember anything in the constitution about the cost of a carry permit. We can't pick and choose what the state can do as long as it does not go against the constitution. The question becomes ... Who makes that decision? .... I find that the Supreme Court has been doing a poor and slanted view of that and congress has been doing a worse job of making those decisions. ..... Washington is no longer representing the common man. It is doing the rich man's bidding. Congress and the Supreme Court and the Excutive branch is bought and paid for by money. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 12/12/16 at 08:06:32 2B263B354F0 wrote:
Oh I thought you mentioned states rights in reference to a state being able to decide who can obtain a carry permit not how much it cost. I don't know what it costs in TN is, but in NY it cost 340 dollars to apply for just the permit to purchase a fire arm and another $100 for fingerprinting. In my opinion that is waaaaaay to much. The way I look at it it NY's way of imposing a charge that many can't afford in effect making it illegal, since they can't do so outright, by way of cost. And, like I said, there is no, and i mean no, way you are getting a conceal carry permit in NY if you aren't a retired cop. I feel that this goes against the constitution since without a right to carry a firearm you basically only have the "right to bear arms" when your in your home. I agree about the govt being bought and paid for, I thought that was the whole appeal of Trump over Clinton (drain the swamp thing) |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/12/16 at 09:09:44 I would bet money that the high cost is exactly the way of discouraging carry permits. Just another example of the people not being represented by their elected officials. .... run for office to get it changed and see where that gets you. ..... In a state that Satan could run for office on the Red ticket and get elected the Senator spent $20 million on his campaign. Explain that one. I hope you are correct about Trump but I have serious doubts. Bush lowered the tax rate for the rich to improve the economy. Then the working man got 2007 and we still haven't recovered from that. Just look at the Sprint Cup attendance. Most races only have about 25% of the seats filled. Before 07 you had to sell your first born to get a seat at Bristol and now they have to advertise on TV and still can't sell seats. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 12/12/16 at 09:32:14 5B564B453F0 wrote:
Trust me I know all about 2007, I was a high school science teacher in 2007, then I was laid off, I'm still working to get back to where I was then. Republicans give tax breaks to the ultra rich to try to stimulate the economy, and dems give entitlements to the ultra poor to buy their vote. To match you I live in a state where hitler can run on the blue ticket and win but they spend millions too, but I don't know where we are going with this. All I wanted is to be able to have my constitutional right to bare arms not be infringed upon and not have to mortgage my home to do so lol. I have a friend in new jersey and its a lot cheaper out there to get the purchase permit ($65) but even though it is court ordered to not be more than 30 days till you get a response to the application he has been waiting over 4-5 months. Like NY though you still can't get a carry permit unless your a retired cop. There was a women from Pennsylvania, where they still respect the 2nd amendment, who had a valid conceal carry permit in PA that was arrested and charged in NJ for having it because she forgot and crossed the border into NJ. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by batman on 12/12/16 at 09:47:55 You can't get over on the law, but you sometimes can get under.I live in New York ,pistol permit is hard and costly and even with a permit you're not allowed to carry in New York City (where you might need it the most). But federal law states that a rifle barrel need be only 16" long,shotgun 18'' and overall length 29" . So if your camping on the bike or just traveling in the car, you can have a weapon of choose that you could break down and carry,or leave assembled that would be 50 state legal,as long as it was unloaded while in or on your vehicle. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/16 at 23:39:25 2A273A344E0 wrote:
]I don't remember anything in the constitution about the cost of a carry permit. That's because they have taken a RIGHT, turned it into a Privilege And charged for a License. A License is PERMISSION from the State to Do what would otherwise be illegal. Let that soak in. Got a drivers license? ARE you REALLY a Driver? Legal technicalities and word definitions come into play. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Paraquat on 12/13/16 at 06:16:26 5D504D43390 wrote:
Try the Equal Protections Clause. --Steve |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/16 at 06:25:22 I'm gonna need an explanation. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Paraquat on 12/13/16 at 07:07:44 Quote:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/equal_protection Which I interpret as meaning you can't set a monetary minimum standard for Constitutionally protected rights. Can't be financially restrictive, although a KelTec is 200 bucks and an adequate AR15 is ~$1500. Markets dictate price, but that's another discussion. Let's take free travel. You have free travel. If you want to use federal roads and highways you're subject to "their" whims. You can still travel, but driving a car is a privilege. One that comes with licensing. There is no amendment granting you the right to bear a vehicle. --Steve |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/13/16 at 07:22:03 The People own the roads. Travel is a Right. Using the People's roads for commerce is a Privilege, hence, license. Driving is a commercial word. Using a machine to carry oneself down ones road is a right. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Dagillespi on 12/14/16 at 07:43:46 JOG hit the nail on the head with what I was getting at. Left wing states have decided that when the constituting uses the word Right to bear arms it means Privilege to bear arms. It should not be the job of the federal government to step on states rights but it is their job to ensure that states abide by the constitution. Also the idea about people being inaccurate. Cops are just people although it may be part of their job to carry a gun doesn't mean they are proficient with it. Firearms are a perishable skill just because you shoot a qualification course for the department every year doesn't mean your any better shot than Joe blow who shoots once a year. You have to be able to protect yourself and your family. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Paraquat on 12/14/16 at 09:23:18 After re-reading, it appears that Ditz and I are actually in agreement. I admit I was in a hurry during lunch and just skimmed. I missed important context clues. My argument is against the high fees because they are cost prohibitive to Constitutional rights. --Steve |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/16 at 13:48:16 Fees and Rights are diametrically opposed. Poll taxes? We go to school, graduate, get a diploma. Never have to renew it. The doctor and optometrist can decide if I keep my drivers Certification. I don't NEED license. I understand the need for proficiency for the sake of safety. I've renewed my license by mail, so, nobody was checking my eyes. I see both sides, but primarily, a Right has been made into a Privilege and a fee charged for a License. A LICENSE is Permission from the State to do what would otherwise be illegal. Look at when marriage licenses started. Any constitutional amendment around that tim? https://mattwilson32.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/the-ugly-history-of-the-marriage-license-in-america/ Drivers licenses were originally aimed at truck drivers. Because nobody has a Right to put wear and tear on My Road to haul commercial products that they are using to make a living. That's a Privilege, that's Commerce, not travel. Anyone remember when I said I've been studying while others were living normal lives? Letting go of the Basic Beliefs about life isn't easy. The propaganda is so pervasive, so foundational, it's sickening. The People have slowly forgotten that WE ARE the Sovereign. Trump was elected because enough people like me are making enough noise to change some people's thinking. Join us. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/14/16 at 15:37:56 License fees, all permits are nothing more than taxes. They all have to their hands into our pockets. They are also a way to keep us under their thumb. Big Brother is watching us in all things that we do. Never forget that. They even watch your bank account and double check all of your big withdrawls and deposits. They have all of your gun purchase record for years. It was said that those records were destroyed after a couple years or so. Don't believe it. Our taxes are paying billions for all the records that are being kept on us. It is illegal for the gov. to keep these records so they are paying private concerns to do it for them. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/16 at 23:21:00 You're right, to a point. The exception is When a Right gets taken away and replaced by a Privilege, for which one must acquire a License and pay a fee. Your point is taken, in that They get their grubby mitts on your money.. But, The Right diminished and made a Privilege Teaches the People They aren't the Sovereign, but mere subjects. So, they win by stealing our money and by teaching a slave mentality.. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by ditz on 12/15/16 at 05:08:48 JOG,,,, there is a lot of truth in what you say and as a nation of sheep we have learned our lesson well. As long as we are fat we are happy. ..... Just like all the lies that we were fed just prior to the Iraq war or police action or what ever they call it. They also told us that the war would be paid for with Iraqi oil which never happened and then they rant about our national debt plus they lowered the tax rate. How two faced can they be. I agree that we need to get rid of the deficient spending and trade and our excessive debt but both parties have created it and are continuing to support it. Trump also says he is going to lower taxes. Just what the Bush Boys did prior to the 07' depression. Then Bush stated that he was sorry it happened on his watch. He should have said that he was sorry that it happened. .... Then Obama continues on with the same basic policy. What hypocrits. All of them...... |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/18/16 at 16:09:57 Search Laffer curve taxes And remember that the income tax was passed in 1913, let that soak in. America grew and the People prospered without any income tax. THEN we got the federal reserve... The bank we BORROW every dollar spent from. Just how Sovereign IS a nation dependent on a bank for its operating capital? Our income taxes are to pay the interest on the debt. You don't actually believe that a lender would loan before a payment arrangement had been made, do you? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission Corporations shouldn't even pay income tax. Certainly individuals who are working shouldn't. Income derived from investment, okay, tax some of that. We've watched interest rates drop. When I was a young fellow my family had CDs setup to mature every month. $10,000.00 CDs at different lengths of time to maturity. They were making money.. What happened? What Would happen if interest rates went back up? Well, right NOW the interest rate on our debt is low. Imagine what would have to be paid to the interest on our debt. All they have to do is raise interest rates and we are screwed, Unless we arrest them. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 12/23/16 at 12:48:37 3C2325223F3809390931232F64560 wrote:
Well I have to disagree with you here, driving is not a right it is intact a privilege. A right is irrevocable and inherently held by all human beings, driving is most certainly a privilege that is bestowed upon someone by the government that is revocable. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/23/16 at 14:47:54 13363C2B69606C6B590 wrote:
Owning the Road. (This Thread has Morfed) Land Owner: Twp, County, some State Roads. the property line goes to the center of the ‘easement’, most cases the center of the Tar, or traveled portion of the road. but not always. Government owned roads: Most State roads, and Freeway,. owned by a government unit. (who owns the Government? US) Whichever way, that, ‘road’, is a Easement, (For Travel). Now I can Walk, down that, easement, ride a Bicycle, a Horse, all I want, any time I want. (Except freeways, which are Posted on entry ! then, if you are a BLM Protester, can you violate the Law, everyone else has to stand by) Some States require a License, for the, ‘thing’, i.e., snowmobiles, quads, SxS’s, some don’t. Some States require a License, for the, ‘Person’, (on above), some don’t. (That’s all Just Revenue) It seems the general, mindset, is: A, ‘Right’, to use that easement, (road), to go to, point B from point A. A, ‘Privilege’, to use a certain, ’thing’, to do it with. And a, Privilege, to have a license, to use certain, ’things’. So wonder, when the ‘Fairy Dust Sprinklers’, will, demand, one have a, ‘Walking License”, like a “Driving License”. A person, can BUY a car. One can DRIVE a Car. With OUT, a personal Driving License, OR, a Car License. But it must ONLY, Be used on Personal Property. So, next will be, a, ‘Shoe’, License. (well, only of course, only for the shoes you use walking on the, ‘Road’) Before that, their will be, a, ‘Horse’, License. So everyone will be prepared, for the, ’shoe’, license. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 12/23/16 at 15:10:54 Licensed are bestowed upon the holder based on them demonstrating a skill and the agreement to uphold certain rules that have been previously established. This is generally done for things like driving or gun ownership or certain highly skilled occupations that if done by those without the requisite skills or, in a negligent manner by those that do, pose a significant threat to the public. If one was to obtain such a license and later demonstrate to have indeed acted in a negligent manner that PRIVILEGE would be revoked. Rights can not be revoked because, by definition, they are inalienable. You have many rights as a US citizen, but those rights can not put others at undo risk. Comparing walking to driving is like comparing you putting a bandage on your child's cut to performing a surgery. Driving and walking are both modes of transport, just like applying a baggage and surgery are both medical procedures. No one needs a license to walk but they do to drive, just like no one needs a license to put a bandaid on, but they do to practice as a surgeon. This is because walking down the street and applying a bandaid don't pose a significant threat to the public if done poorly, but driving and surgery are. You wouldn't care if the 18 y/o girl behind the counter at McDonalds put a bandage on your childs finger, but if she was trying to perform an appendectomy you probably would. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/23/16 at 15:44:15 60454F581A131F182A0 wrote:
Yes, that is ‘Common Sense’. ! I certainly agree. Previous, (bout walking), was a, analogy, of how/what, the Fairy Dust Sprinklers, think. The ’Snowflakes’, would come up with things like. “OMG, A Horse, What if a Car Hit a Horse, and KILLED Everybody in the Car. We just HAVE to License, Horses.” Etc Etc Etc.” And they, the ultra-Liberals, (Like they have DONE Frequently in the Past), Make a ‘law’. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 12/23/16 at 19:07:36 5E7B7166242D2126140 wrote:
Would this be, people that, ‘know’, how to do those things. Or just, ‘think’ they Know ??? Cases in point. School Teacher, teaching for 25 years, In a Very ‘nasty’, place in N. Mpls, where, the, (that is THE, Singular), Parent, does NOT Care. What happens. That is where, the Kids are in their house, are shot and KILLED, by, ‘gang banger’, shootings. And NOBODY, saw a THING. Yet it is ALL, the Polices Fault ! Anyway, this Teacher, Teaches, Item 2, 4, 1, 3, 5, 6. He has the Highest level of retention, ON RECORD, in his School. But a, ‘Newley Minted’, ‘teacher’, is hired. She has NEVER, EVER, taught a class. (Especially in that environment) Yet she get’s hired to, ‘Monitor’, other teachers. And her, ‘clipboard’, says, “teach items, 1,2,3,4,5,6,” So she files a report, and a BIG, BLACK, MARK, is on the Teacher who does, Item 2, 4, 1, 3, 5, 6. Where is she now??? GONE, 3 MONTHS GONE !!!!!!! But the, Black Mark is STILL, in the, ‘file’. A , ‘new’, Truck Driver, delivering food. (To a ‘old’, truck Driver, who was moved into the office, Who had 1 MILLON, MILES, in Driving. ) “I Can’t deliver to ‘X’ place". The, ‘old’ truck driver said: “Yes YOU CAN, do this, than that, I have done it 1,000 times". But, the, ‘old’ truck driver, ended up taking early retirement, because, the, ‘kid driver’, would not listen. And the Company lost a account. And it was the, ‘old’ truck drivers fault. Did a CUP, (Conditional Use Permit), locally. When I would drive by, I would stop in and see what was happening. One day, they were putting up the rafters, (and by code) their had to be four fire breaks, (Sheetrock). The, ‘inspector’, said to the Construction workers. “Take all That Sheetrock Down, and put it in on the other way”. I Asked the Inspector, “How do you know, which way a fire will come from”? They left it AS it was. (Side note, at the end, the, ‘inspector’, said, 4 little things, had to be done, told him, OK, stop back tomorrow at 10AM, they will be done. He did, they were DONE. Then he said, “OBTY, My Wife Works for XYZ Company, and if you need this, you should call her” I said: ’No the owner has that covered with another Company” He THEN, Tore off a Page, with 40 + BS Things that had to be done. I chased his azz out. Called His TOP boss, got the run around, told the secretary ‘call me’, just giving you a ‘ heads up’, on a Press Conference, tomorrow morning at 10AM. He called back in 15 min. Told him, Press Conference will be at 10 AM Tomorrow, and it will ask the Questions, which, YOU, will have to answer. At 9 AM, the, ‘inspector’, came in, handed OVER a, ‘done’, then left. (In a huff) Never Heard of him again, never saw him again, guess he had enough money from BRIBES, to retire !!!!!!! (And Many MORE) SO, WHO, is the ‘Expert” ? WHO, Decides, if YOU know what you are doing? WHO, makes the rules ? Is it a, ‘wannabe’, or someone who has, ‘Been their Done That’ ??? B. Clinton, Started it, Bush let it ride, and Obama, raised it to a New Level ! “OMG, What If the HORSE, Hits a Car, We have GOT, to ‘License’ Horses” !!!!!!!! WHO, is making the rules ? Is it a, ‘wannabe’, or someone who has, ‘Been their Done That’ ??? Is it someone looking for a BRIBE, or someone who has, ‘Been their Done That’ ??? Is it someone who does NOT know their AZZ from, a hole in the ground, or someone who has, ‘Been their Done That’ ??? WHO, is, ‘Making the Rules’ ?????? Just like the EPA, (Newly Minted, DFI’S), Dumping 3 MILLION, Gallons, of HIGHLY, TOXIC Water in a river. KILLING ALL the Wildlife !!!!! NO PROBLEM Yet, Fining a Rancher, 20 MILLION Dollars, for Building a Pond, to PROTECT, and ENHANCE, Wildlife ! WHEN will the DFI’s, (under government protection), STOP. Removing your, Freedom ????? Well, Maybe, will start with the next POTUS ? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/16 at 16:12:06 st like the EPA, (Newly Minted, DFI’S), Dumping 3 MILLION, Gallons, of HIGHLY, TOXIC Water in a river. KILLING ALL the Wildlife !!!!! NO PROBLEM Yet, Fining a Rancher, 20 MILLION Dollars, for Building a Pond, to PROTECT, and ENHANCE, Wildlife ! Ask a psychologist what it does to force a population to accept nonsensical laws. And watch obvious double standards. Apparently the government is quite pleased with all of their decisions. They sure don't spend time repealing laws. They just double down on stupid. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 09:46:27 From Rep Hudson: National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill Introduced to Congree http://freebeacon.com/issues/rep-hudson-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill/ |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 13:35:13 Are YOU a better driver because you Pay the State for that card in your wallet? Why not just have proof of having successfully taken drivers ed? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 13:37:58 The short answer would be because driving is a privilege and the card in your wallet allows the state to easily track your record and take away that privilege if you drive like a dumb ass. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 13:53:10 That you've been convinced of that doesn't make it so. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 13:54:17 convinced of what that its a privilege or that that what the license is for? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 14:23:30 You're the Sovereign. For you to Travel is Your Right. The manner in which you travel is your choice, and here it gets tricky. The Common method of travel, which today is the car. A rocket powered vehicle would pose a hazard and can't be used. If you read the whole thing you saw my post on the difference between personal travel, which is Not Commerce, and DRIVING, which is a Commercial Term. The roads are the property of the People and we have a Right to Travel on OUR roads. After all, WE decided to Contract to have them built and Paid for them with our tax dollars. For someone to Use OUR roads in the Pursuit of Commercial Gain is a Privilege, and the cost of the licensing includes fees to compensate for the additional maintenance required to the roads Because of that Commercial enterprise. You otta see what it takes to run a pulling unit down the road to an oil well. Read again about the landowner who allowed his servants to slowly take over. Consider that we were all raised in schools that are very much controlled by the state. For Them to Teach us we Don't have Rights but privilege that they can withhold unless we pay for a License is really not that surprising. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 14:49:01 I know what all of this is. It's Challenging the Basic Belief that Our Government is altruistic and desirous of Our best interests. We were all subtly Taught that our representatives went to D.C. with OUR best interests as their guiding light. I'm not able to see that as being the truth. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 14:52:59 I assume your analogy of the landowner and the servant is meant to represent the people and the government respectively. but this is a flawed analogy because the "servants" are not servants but are "landowners" themselves. We are a representative republic not a direct democracy we elect these people from among all the other "landowners" to represent us and our wishes, and can choose to not reelect them if we feel they have failed to do so. In this way we are not their subjects, they are our representatives. Those elected "landowners" create laws by which our country is governed, this is how a civilized society works. Among these are laws that set rules on how we must drive an automobile in order to insure that you are doing so in a safe manner. You do have a right to travel, but you don't have a right to do so in a manner that puts others in danger, and if your record indicates that you do drive in a dangerous manner the privilege to do so will be temporarily revoked. The roads are public and owned by the people, but they are not revoking that they are revoking your privilege to get behind the wheel and travel down that road in a machine that you have demonstrated that you are not doing in a safe manner. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 14:56:09 well, you posted again while I was typing. I don't know if you want to argue that government representatives are assholes or specifically if driving is a privilege or a right. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 19:44:04 1A3F352260696562500 wrote:
Your desire to live in a slave mentality is beyond my ability to change. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 21:19:04 you say slave mentality I say civilized society. What you propose sounds like anarchy |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 21:21:31 I'M not suggesting that people ignore stop signs. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 21:26:01 no but if they do there should be no consequences because driving is a right not a privilege. When, God forbid, a 16 y/o girl in her daddies denali slams into someone on their bike because she was to busy texting her friends I think her "right" to drive should disappear. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 21:53:43 You don't have any idea how silly you're being, do you? I have a Right to carry a gun, but not to indiscriminately shoot people, I have a right to WALK, but not to be an not a very nice person and walk right over people. Quit being a child. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 23:27:20 Well, that change quickly. I thought we were having a nice debate. To be honest what I think is childish his name calling |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 23:31:51 Maybe I'm exhausted with trying to get people to see who they are. Yes, it's hard to stop feeling like the one who must Do what They say. It's a Frikken con game. Understand what a License is, permission to Do what would otherwise be illegal, Sorry for getting short. When you went with, well, since I have a RIGHT to do it, then when I kill someone foolishly there should be no consequences, I was irritated by the irrationality. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 23:45:41 Yes, and driving is a privilege that requires one to demonstrate that they have the requisite skills to do so as well as maintain a driving record that demonstrates they drive in a safe manner, and anyone who cannot do both should lose that privilege and it should be illegal to drive, hence the necessity of a license to drive. Just like the surgeon needs a license and if they cannot demonstrate the skill to do surgery as well as a safe track record and they would lose their license and it would be illegal to practice |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/17 at 23:47:21 You are wrong. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/04/17 at 23:52:05 What part is wrong, should you never lose the privilege to drive? |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/17 at 01:19:28 Moral, conscientious people would stop operating a vehicle if they lost vision or coordination. That's a detail. First, understand the principles of your freedom and inherent, natural RIGHTS. The State didn't Give you life. The State isn't the source of your natural rights. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Joer0952 on 01/05/17 at 01:35:32 I agree with everything you just said, where we diverge is that I don't believe that driving is a right. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/17 at 11:13:09 You disagree with the Supreme Court. Read the link. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Paraquat on 02/02/17 at 10:21:08 I'm reading a book. It reminded me of our conversation. Here's an excerpt: Quote:
--Steve |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/02/17 at 19:37:40 The SCOTUS ruled no license required. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Trippah on 02/04/17 at 08:12:14 JOG - moral just sensible people do not drive drunk, text while driving or perform surgery they haven't been trained for. Yet it happens a lot (The third is the abortion thing I will avoid for the moment). Repeat offenders of the DUI type are in every town and province. Your anarchism is a society that will not function at all, as every time a car taps yours will you stop them and , with your over the top right to carry view, shoot them. Again, since you gun nuts are nuts: the constitutional right is to bear arms, in a well organized militia (Think Minutemen). Thus many home had weapons but few carried them except when, practicing under the Militia Format. Those living closer to the first "Red Menace" did keep their firearms closer to hand when in the fields or, travelling to town. A century later, in the gunslinger old west, a small minority wore or carried guns in town. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by WebsterMark on 02/04/17 at 10:45:13 No Trippah you are wrong. Don't think Minute Men, don't think practicing for the militia, don't think 2nd Amendment is about conceal carry or self-defense. It's about the citizens having the ability to arm themselves against an oppressive Federal Government. The authors were far more clear when writing in the Federalist Papers for example. It's important to keep that in mind. All interpretations written about the 2nd amendment must keep in mind the original intent. Anything other than that, you should be talking about an amendment to cancel the 2nd. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by MnSpring on 02/04/17 at 11:26:49 52746F7676676E060 wrote:
Of Course NOT. Just as: “ every time a car taps yours will you stop them and , with your over the top right to carry view, shoot them “ Oh Yea, what has happened, in all those States, have enacted, ’Shall’, Issue laws. Did the Crime rate go up ? Or, did it go, DOWN ? I think it was the earliest town, in the USA, that, ‘Banned’ a handgun, while in town. It was enlisted, because a group of people, constantly came into town, got drunk, and shot up the place. After the ban was in place, the Honest folk, dropped their handguns off at the sheriff’s office, and on their way out of town, picked them back up again. Yet the, ‘criminals’, ignored the law, and continued to carry handguns in town, openly defying the law. (Didn’t work then, don’t work now) And it was a early example of, ’news’, Fabricating. Two papers in town, and both would report the, same, skirmishes, (Their were Many before the OK Corral), in two completely different ways. (Both Sides) Also Behan, was widely suspected, of taking bribes, from the Criminals. And giving bribes, to gain his Power. Some may know, (Bot, your the closest to this town) It is what predicated the, ‘Fight at the OK Corral”. “ few carried them “ “ old west, a small minority wore or carried guns in town “ Those two statements are completely false. and a study of, ‘real’ history will show that. “since you gun nuts are nuts” You bet, I am a, ‘Gun Nut’, and proud of it. Just the same, as someone, who hits a little ball, with a club, count how many times they hit it until it falls into a hole in the ground. They would be called, “Golf Nuts”. (Who I think, are Nuts, but I don’t strive to tell lies about them, or ‘ban’ their Clubs) Clubs kill more people than firearms. (And don’t ’spin’, and come up with, peaches & oranges, comparisons) And the totally BS comparisons to other nations, that are 10 + times older than the USA. (This Ain’t, Star-Trek) Some day, we will get their, but NOT today ! “ well organized militia “ (or Regulated) Understand what that word meant, in 1776 (+/-) It was that, that town/area, the Citizens, all had the Same, caliber firearm, so they could Share the round balls. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/04/17 at 14:03:36 http://www.constitution.org/mil/cs_milit.htm Don't forget that the People had been subjugated and mistreated by a government that wanted to oppress them. The People are the sovereign in America. Not the government. The media, schools and government have worked hard to con us into seeing ourselves as being beholden to them rather than the other way around. It's obviously worked well on most of us. Any card carrying republican or democrat has lost sight of what America was meant to be. None of you will read the things that would make seeing possible. I've given links and book titles. If anyone wants them, PM me. |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Paraquat on 02/06/17 at 09:00:05 An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert Heinlein --Steve |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Serowbot on 02/06/17 at 09:04:34 We are an armed society... ..and I don't find it particularly polite... http://https://i0.wp.com/www.catholics4trump.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TrumpKovImpers.gif?resize=320%2C180&ssl=1 |
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Title: Re: National Carry Permits Post by Serowbot on 02/06/17 at 09:44:28 Wiki- Quote:
...but you do need a license... not required by Fed's but States... I suppose some state could drop the requirement if they wanted, but none have so far... State's rights.. ain't it a pisser... ;D |
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