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Message started by T And T Garage on 02/08/17 at 10:30:57

Title: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/08/17 at 10:30:57

Thanks to our president, and his choice of Ajit Pai as FCC chair, we're probably going to be paying much more for our ISPs. He wants to end net neutrality.

If that happens, it will allow a company like Comcast to charge more or slow down sites like.. oh.. say... fox news in favor of MSNBC....

Great pick for the FCC, huh?

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/david-pogue-on-fcc-and-net-neutrality-205449750.html

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by Trippah on 02/08/17 at 11:46:21

Every time you turn on your computer, a profile in cowardice with orange hair and a very long nose will fill the screen.

Then a wall will fill the screen; you then must enter a donation to the Trump Foundation: THEN, you can move on to your browser. ;D ;D

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/08/17 at 11:51:18

61475C4545545D350 wrote:

LOL - good one!
(sadly, probably not far from the truth...)

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by raydawg on 02/08/17 at 12:32:45

Lil chickens get hit with falling sky ;D

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/08/17 at 12:39:55

20332B36332535520 wrote:

Lil chickens get hit with falling sky ;D

Ignorance is your bliss.....

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by raydawg on 02/08/17 at 14:31:47

5C424D4C415C475A280 wrote:

[quote author=20332B36332535520 link=1486578657/0#3 date=1486585965]Lil chickens get hit with falling sky ;D

Ignorance is your bliss.....
[/quote]

Yes, you do seem happy, LOL!!!

Hey sport, answer a real question, with historical observations...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1486515620

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/08/17 at 14:48:25

5E4D55484D5B4B2C0 wrote:

[quote author=5C424D4C415C475A280 link=1486578657/0#4 date=1486586395][quote author=20332B36332535520 link=1486578657/0#3 date=1486585965]Lil chickens get hit with falling sky ;D

Ignorance is your bliss.....
[/quote]

Yes, you do seem happy, LOL!!!

Hey sport, answer a real question, with historical observations...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1486515620[/quote]

Wow - great use of the whole "I know you are, but what am I?" routine... lol - pee jokes and other assorted middle school practices - nice!

As to your "riddle"? No thanks - I'm not stupid. So sad that no one cares.... Besides, there is no solve for it. It's not worth my time to hear you "yeah, but... yeah, but"....

I'm going to save my time and make more money so I can afford internet service.

You may want to stock up on fox news - if comcast gets its way, they might bottleneck it so bad that even its biggest fans (look in the mirror) will give up on them... LOL

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by raydawg on 02/08/17 at 15:10:49

6B757A7B766B706D1F0 wrote:

[quote author=5E4D55484D5B4B2C0 link=1486578657/0#5 date=1486593107][quote author=5C424D4C415C475A280 link=1486578657/0#4 date=1486586395][quote author=20332B36332535520 link=1486578657/0#3 date=1486585965]Lil chickens get hit with falling sky ;D

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/08/17 at 15:15:41

http://www.businessinsider.com/net-neutralityfor-dummies-and-how-it-effects-you-2014-1

Before we all get wound up and worried about change, let's see how it goes. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It's not necessarily a good thing, either. It depends on how the service providers handle it. And, like every other commodity, the consumers have some influence over the company selling it. As long as everyone has access to every provider, the consumer chooses who suits their needs the best. If prices are too high, consumers will drop off. That's incentive to drop prices. If services are too slow and too expensive, that's an invitation for competition. Let the market figure it out. I know I don't Get the speed the provider advertises. And they have small print that explains it away.
Ignorance isn't bliss. I watch ignorance defended, protected, embraced, even when information that would eradicate That ignorance, That incorrect belief, is offered again and again. Apparently, ignorance is a prized possession.
Having been taught to read, the only thing that keeps people in ignorance and being misinformed is their belief that they are neither AND the difficulty of finding the information that would repair those conditions, and, of course, the unwillingness to accept that they have been either completely in the dark or had accepted half truths and whole lies as fact. That's a bitter pill to swallow. I know Exactly what it tastes like. But, I prefer That to not knowing the truth.
I was physically ill at ease when I finished Creature from Jekyll Island for three days, even though I knew things weren't
As Advertised
before I started reading it. It confirmed my suspicions. I can't imagine what it would do to someone who has never even wondered
Why is it that a Sovereign Nation has to BORROW every dollar it spends?
Doesn't that seem odd?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by raydawg on 02/08/17 at 15:38:12

Yeah, people will be forced to get their news on the TV, again.....

HAHA.....

LOL....

Love stirring the pot ;D

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/08/17 at 16:55:41

2A39213C392F3F580 wrote:

Yeah, people will be forced to get their government approved disinformation on the TV, again.....

HAHA.....

LOL....

Love stirring the pot ;D

FIFY

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/08/17 at 17:19:43

Knowing the history of big business and their willingness to lobby for regulations that would make start up competition more difficult, seeing them work with providers and stifle the abilities of smaller companies to get their ads out and get listed up near the top of the search engines makes me feel more concern about this part.
###### # ###### #####
Could getting rid of net neutrality screw consumers?

It could. Consumers might lose control of the Internet; Verizon and Comcast could be the masters who dictate exactly what we're able to view online. There's also a risk for small businesses. If they can't afford to pay Internet providers to promote their content, they might go under.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by raydawg on 02/08/17 at 17:42:08

081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:

[quote author=2A39213C392F3F580 link=1486578657/0#9 date=1486597092]Yeah, people will be forced to get their government approved disinformation on the TV, again.....

HAHA.....

LOL....

Love stirring the pot ;D

FIFY
[/quote]

Thank you.....BUT, I prefer bliss ;D

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/09/17 at 15:41:56

455B545558455E43310 wrote:

" ...Great pick for the FCC, huh? "

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/09/17 at 17:00:17

Well, if the $75.00 tire lasts 100,000 miles and the $55.00 tire lasts 15,000, I'm gonna spend the money on the better tire.
True, honest Free Enterprise doesn't put Taxpayer Money into any company. The debate on Net Neutrality has to be with the understanding that no service provider has an income from the Taxpayers. Or, all of them have an equal, illegal, immoral, subsidy.

Just because you can envision a way for corruption to make a rule change work against the people doesn't mean the rule change should not be enacted. I see several ways for the consumer to lose, but the current control over the companies that provide internet service aren't exactly inside the definition of free enterprise. I have concerns, not so much for myself, but for small businesses.
Can you explain how a company would go about getting, who? What department, what person? How would an internet provider go about getting a monthly check from the government? What regulations could they find relief from? What favorable situation could they get handed to them that their competitors wouldn't know about and be able to complain about?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/09/17 at 17:48:08

2E3137302D2A1B2B1B23313D76440 wrote:

Well, if the $75.00 tire lasts 100,000 miles ...

Well, if the $75.00 tire lasts 100,000 miles and the $55.00 tire lasts 15,000, I’m gonna spend the money on the better tire.
Absolutely, that is, ‘Free Enterprise”, (YOU Determine, NOT someone else)

True, honest Free Enterprise doesn’t put Taxpayer Money into any company.

Well, in the past, it was, unless one makes a, ‘Donation’ to a, ‘Foundation” !

Just because you can envision a way for corruption to make a rule change work against the people doesn’t mean the rule change should not be enacted.

Corruption, HAS made such a rule change, over and over and over and over again !!!!!

I see several ways for the consumer to lose,
They could.

but the current control over the companies that provide internet service aren’t exactly inside the definition of free enterprise.
Key Word here, ‘Current:”. !
(as in the last POTUS)

I have concerns, not so much for myself, but for small businesses.
Understand that.

Can you explain how a company would go about getting, who? What department, what person? How would an internet provider go about getting a monthly check from the government?

How about, ‘incentives’, for hiring a person of a certain, skin color, race, religion, sex, ?
Regardless, of their, ‘ability’, to do the JOB ?

What regulations could they find relief from? What favorable situation could they get handed to them that their competitors wouldn’t know about
See Above.

and be able to complain about?

Are you serious ?
YOU are NOTHING. YOU Don’t Mater. Your Voice, (or Company), is totally Ignored, as a, ‘Whack’.

(well that was under the last 24 years of the POTUS)
Perhaps it will change now.

Perhaps, the, ‘PEOPLE”, (not the ones who have a can of spray paint)
The ones, who ARE, ‘Citizens’.
Perhaps the ones who are not, ‘PAID’, by a ……….;
Perhaps, the, Voice, of the, CITIZENS, will be Heard ?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/09/17 at 18:06:28

When someone takes a sentence apart and pretends they are answering the question, that goes a step beyond taking it out of context.

I asked

What favorable situation could they get handed to them that their competitors wouldn’t know about and be able to complain about?

I didn't say that MY complaint would be heard. I would not even be likely to be in a position to be able to see that one company was being given some advantages over another.

Where is the government's motivation to favor one provider over the others?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/10/17 at 09:27:42

6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:

When someone takes a sentence apart and pretends they are answering the question, that goes a step beyond taking it out of context.

It can be thought of that way. But it depends totally How that happens.
The ‘original’ lines, are in the original post.
Anybody can see them, and anybody can decide, why a sentence was broke apart, to answer, bit by bit.
(I now know, how you interrupt that)

I asked
What favorable situation could they get handed to them that their competitors wouldn’t know about and be able to complain about?

Company A, pays 10.00 hour to put nut A on bolt B
Co B pays the same thing, for the same thing.

Now a government official, (the government is not a, 'thing', it is people, where some do right, and some do wrong)
The Government official comes along and says: you, the Co, B, pay 5.00 a hour, we, (the government, through the dishonest person) will pay the other 5.00. But I, (the dishonest government employe) says; I want X amount payment for ME, doing all the paperwork, adding Pork to a bill, and all the CYA/s.
The competitor, does NOT know about it, until it is far to late.

Where is the government’s motivation to favor one provider over the others?

It is the motivation, of the person, who represents the government, getting the bribe.
MONEY, to that person, is the motivation.
Because simply, the, governments’, money is NOT his, so he can give it away,
and the little, he pays in a increase in Tax, it HUGELY offset, by the Bribe, he is getting.
( And, ‘he’, can be changed to, ‘she’)

And when the Honest company complains, they are totally Ignored, as a, ‘Whacko’.
Or, they are told, we don’t do that ‘program’ any more.
or, you don’t qualify for the program, (and not give you the details of what is needed to qualify)

When I said: “YOU Don’t Mater…” it was not about, YOU Personally,
The, ‘YOU”, was describing the company that would complain.

One more thing. 'Why' do I believe this?
Because I have SEEN it Happen, Several time, in the State & County level. And if it happens their, you don't think it happens on a Federal Level ?

And the point?
It was a response to the, 'Sky Is Falling", (because Trump put someone in charge of something)
Because, I believe, that person will TAKE Away.
The, 'buddy-buddy', and 'pay me', system.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/10/17 at 10:19:04

I think we've all been aware of the corrupt nature of just about everything. I don't know if How things are, today, with the providers, it's a fair game or if it's corrupt. What's coming is coming. Like everyone else, I haven't seen change that didn't somehow negatively impact the People. So, naturally, I'm skeptical. I'm pretty sure I'll get screwed, but I'm not so worried about me. My big concern is for the small business owners and their employees. Maybe they can unite and work together, IF the new system makes it difficult for them to get Found on the search engines or to get their names out to the public.
We, as consumers, can choose to not focus on the top five results of a search. We can do just like we did when products and services were searched for in the Yellow Pages. Look through all of them. Big Business can STAY big by squashing the small, upstart competition. This looks like a handy tool for just that.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/10/17 at 11:44:54

6C4F725153484F46210 wrote:

[quote author=455B545558455E43310 link=1486578657/0#0 date=1486578657]" ...Great pick for the FCC, huh? "

Here are some thoughts.
(Numbers used are just a analogy to make the point)

A Company, pays employees $10.00 a hour, to do a mindless job.
Now, the government comes along and says:
“HEY, you can hire this employ for $5.00 a hour,
‘we’ will pay the rest”

Gee, that Company JUST, cut it’s COST of Labor in 1/2 !!!!!!!!
(Who would NOT do that ?)

Well a Company, that would, NOT, do that,
would be a Company, who will NOT, PAY,
the government person, “ UNDER THE TABLE’,
For arranging such a situation.
(Lifeline programs, reduced labor rate, because, ‘government’ pays)

And if you believe, that does NOT happen.
Well, their are some Land Lots, Just a little S & W of Malibu Calf, I am sure you want to buy !

Competition, is NOT.
NOT How much, ‘Money is donated’, to a, ‘Foundation’,
It is determined, by the price of something, that is charged.

And it’s real Simple.
One company charges 75.00 for a tire,
and another charges 55.00.
WHERE, will YOU, spend YOUR, money.
It is, YOUR, Choice !

[/quote]

LOL - sorry, but you are completely off on net neutrality. Your analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

That's not how it works at all....

If the president and his new appointee push for an end to net neutrality, it will become legal for companies like comcast, verizon and the like to basically run the internet as they see fit.

That means price fixing, throttling speeds on whatever sites they want and killing any competition from local ISPs.

If you give control of the internet to corporations, it'd be no different than if Evian controlled your local water utility.

THAT'S the proper analogy.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/10/17 at 12:43:39

While TnT makes a better analogy, I don't think it covers all the bases. I have access to three sources of television. Through the phone company,where I can bundle TV, phone and internet, or, I can go with one of two satellite T.V. sources and get internet service from some crappy dial up, I guess, since I'm in the boonies. For the suburban and city folks, I would expect internet providers to wind up operating like the phone companies. More than one service provider uses the main trunk lines. The long distance providers for next door neighbors are not necessarily the same, yet, the poles aren't covered with wires hung by every service provider.
What I don't want to see, but am concerned about, is back room deals between providers, splitting the nation into zones, and agreeing to not compete. Texas is Evians territory, Oklahoma belongs to Disani..
The questions I have are
Who wanted net neutrality?
Who wants it ended?
IMO, those answers would tell us who is about to get screwed.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/10/17 at 13:04:19

786761667B7C4D7D4D75676B20120 wrote:

You're asking the right question JOG!

The ISPs like Comcast and Verizon are in favor of killing NN. That kind of says a lot right there. Sure, it'd be better for business - THEIR business...

NN is what we have today. It's served us well these last 2 decades or so. I can't imagine that if it were run by corporations that it would be "better".

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/10/17 at 13:25:53

Knowing who the interested parties are says it all for me.
Large corporations can Help them Build their infrastructure,,coff, coff, and make it costly for their small competitors to get a foothold in the market.
Not all corruption stems from favorable legislation. Unfair business practices have been the norm since the discovery of greed.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/11/17 at 14:39:21

Wonder what the word/s,
"broadband subsidy”,
mean then ?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/17 at 15:55:43

Where did you find them?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/11/17 at 17:25:11

3A252324393E0F3F0F37252962500 wrote:

Where did you find them?

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/06/fcc-extend-lifeline-subsidy-to-broadband/index.htm
Here’s One.
“ …And, by the way, if you’re wondering why the FCC didn’t just add $10 onto the existing Lifeline subsidy—helping families to pay for both cell service and broadband—the answer is funding. The money for the program (roughly $1.7 billion a year for 12 million families) comes from the universal service fee attached to everyone’s mobile and land-line phone bills. And most Americans think their monthly bills are high enough.”

And, https://www.cnet.com/news/regulators-expand-subsidy-program-to-bring-broadband-to-the-poor/
“…Federal regulators voted Thursday to expand a $1.5 billion phone subsidy program to bring broadband to the poor, recognizing the necessity of Internet access for work and education….”

And,http://thehill.com/policy/technology/245412-fcc-votes-to-provide-subsidies-for-broadband-internet
“… the program would provide subsidies for broadband in addition to cell and landline phone service. The program is funded by fees paid by service providers that are generally listed on customer’s telephone bills. …”
“… “We still have a long way to go if we are going to fix this program,” Republican Commissioner Ajit Pai said. “Waste fraud and abuse are still rampant.”

And Dozens of More !!!!!

Now, just for the, ‘Underwear in a Bunch’ crowd, and the, ’Spinners’.

This is, NOT, about who is poor or not, who should get help or not, who gets ‘food stamps’ or not.

It is about, WHICH, Company, gets PAID, By the, government, for the, ‘subsidy’!
Which is determined by, the ‘Left Hand’.

(Again for those who do not know, the A in a circle should be done in Red, if it is suppose to mean what it some interpreted it as)

‘Left Hand’, refers to a BRIBE !

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/12/17 at 14:26:53

63407D5E5C4740492E0 wrote:

[quote author=3A252324393E0F3F0F37252962500 link=1486578657/15#24 date=1486857343]Where did you find them?

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/13/17 at 18:33:44

253B343538253E23510 wrote:

The subsidy has nothing to do with NN.

Un Fortunate that you must have been a a student of, ‘Common Core’,
That you can not understand , the word/s, 'a subsidy'.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/13/17 at 19:57:05

2F0C3112100B0C05620 wrote:

[quote author=253B343538253E23510 link=1486578657/15#26 date=1486938413] The subsidy has nothing to do with NN.

Un Fortunate that you must have been a a student of, ‘Common Core’,
That you can not understand , the word/s, 'a subsidy'.[/quote]

OK genius - tell us all - what the heck do subsidies have to do with net neutrality??

(this ought to be good....)

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by MnSpring on 02/14/17 at 19:10:26

3D232C2D203D263B490 wrote:

OK genius - tell us all - what the heck do subsidies have to do with net neutrality?? (this ought to be good....)

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by T And T Garage on 02/15/17 at 10:54:27

73506D4E4C5750593E0 wrote:

[quote author=3D232C2D203D263B490 link=1486578657/15#28 date=1487044625]
OK genius - tell us all - what the heck do subsidies have to do with net neutrality?? (this ought to be good....)

Well guessing, if you cannot see,
What the ramifications are in Europe,
as to all the ‘refugees’, (in their Trojan Horse), are.

You are not going to see, or do the work,
to understand what, ’Subsidy’, means.

Not gonna do it for you !
[/quote]

LMAO!!!! WTH does that have to do with Net Neutrality????

Here's the definition [edit] [/edit]

"The principle that Internet service providers and governments regulating the Internet should treat all data on the Internet the same, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication."

You really may want to think before you post....LOL

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/17 at 18:51:16

The principle that Internet service providers and governments regulating the Internet should treat all data on the Internet the same, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication."

Why would anyone want it otherwise unless they had a desire to throttle certain content?
I think it's a bad idea to end neutrality. Depending on the ideology of the providers, a website could be targeted and limited in their ability to reach those who try to access the site.
IDK enough about how it all works, maybe that's not even possible.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by Steve H on 02/17/17 at 05:27:50

You got it JOG.

Neutrality makes all data the same on the net. A packet of data is just a packet of data. It doesn't make any difference if it's a packet of a video, a packet of data to render a web page, voice communication, email, it's all treated the same in a neutral situation.

The tech exists to throttle (in both directions) almost any data on the internet. Say you're Time-Warner cable, you want your customers to have a great experience watching your streaming content. You can easily turn up the packet priority for video packets originating in your network to make this happen. You aren't slowing the data incoming from the rest of the net. But, effectively you are because your internal video will have priority to travel before someone else's does.

If you're selling a telephone service that works over your network, you'll want to make sure it has priority so you don't get break-ups like on a cell in fringe areas. You turn up the priority for your voice service to achieve this. Now, you don't turn up the priority for any other voice service on your network.suddenly all other internet phone services that people may have are at a disadvantage due to the priority of your service. In many cases in order to 'encourage' sales of your telephone service, you might actually turn down the priority for other voice services.

With the tech capabilities available, just about anything can be prioritized or deprioritized at the whim of the network provider.

He can make a deal with a streaming service, in exchange for some funding sent his way, to provide priority treatment for that streaming service. This could make it hard for smaller startups to get going. It could put some out of business.

Wioth the tech capabilities, it might be nice to prioritize certain types of traffic but probably the only way would be to have the prioritizations a matter of regulation so everybody boosts or cuts priority of the same traffic types equally. Otherwise, you'll end up with a bunch of cross payments all over the place to increase this, decrease that...you want to watch HBO's internet service, no problem....now would you like that standard (no additional charges), with a little speedup (small charge to your provider to increase priority a little(, or would you like the super speedup (bigger payment to your provider for much better priority) This is the kind of thing everybody's worried about. $2 per month to give better response for youtube, $5 a month to prioritize xyz internet phone so you'll get clear calls, want to watch netflix without stops in the video, that'll be $8 additional per month.

You get the idea why some want it so much and others don't want it just as badly.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/17 at 09:19:24

I'll see your common sense and raise you a conspiracy theory. Imagine an internet that can be tuned to allow or disallow content.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by oldNslow on 02/17/17 at 09:43:15

56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:

I'll see your common sense and raise you a conspiracy theory. Imagine an internet that can be tuned to allow or disallow content.

I think that is happening now to some extent. The big search engines use algorithms to decide what pops up at the top of the page. And the social Media sites decide what shows up on their news feeds. Advertising revenue drives some of that, but I don't think there is any doubt that there is a political component also.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/17 at 11:44:58

Ah HA! Just as I Suspected! A closet conspiracy theorist,,,,
I've seen indicators of what you are talking about. Start typing a subject that would be bad news for the left and it doesn't pop up if it's particularly damming.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by Steve H on 02/19/17 at 10:00:21

You are correct in that it could filter out some content that certain people don't want seen for most of the people searching. Some would still find it.

Google has stated it is working with the CIA to help rank search results.
(naa certainly no political bent there) This has been going on for a couple of years.

Government does on occasion (usually related to an ongoing case) request that certain search results be hidden.

Ad revenues do certainly come into play with what pops up on some sites and searches as well. Usually denoted as sponsored searches or something similar.

Title: Re: How do you like your internet?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/19/17 at 11:06:35

Ad revenues do certainly come into play with what pops up on some sites and searches as well.

And revenue given up from one source can be made up from another.