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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Do you? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1491566840 Message started by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 05:07:20 |
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Title: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 05:07:20 Simple question, straight up, "Do you fear God"? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/07/17 at 06:31:11 Yes, in a very respectful way.... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/17 at 06:44:06 That's So Far FROM a Simple Question. You can answer it. I have my answer, but I'm waiting to see how others answer first. My answer could derail the thread. I know, that has never happened before, but it could. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/07/17 at 07:57:06 Kinda' sad for grown up person to fear an imaginary being... You should get over it... just like you did the boogieman, tooth fairy, Santa, and the rest. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 08:08:23 6B7D6A776F7A776C180 wrote:
Why is it sad? I don't get that, could you elaborate? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/07/17 at 08:12:46 You don't get it?... That's even more sad. Think on it... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 08:43:54 2036213C24313C27530 wrote:
If I did, why would I ask you to explain your assigning sad to it? I would guess it's readily apparent to you, so why not explain? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 08:52:53 If there is a God, then no. S/He's the reason I'm here then, right? Why would I fear that? I'd be grateful. Do you? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/07/17 at 09:02:49 Consider the general idea of worshipping a thing that you fear... Does it deserve your worship?... Should anything powerful enough to deserve worship ask you to fear it?... Should an abused wife or child worship the father?... A person that would have you fear them, is weak.. and does not even deserve respect... let alone worship. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/17 at 09:03:45 5543544951444952260 wrote:
What's sad is that you must "bully" someone because they believe. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 09:06:10 4D5E465B5E48583F0 wrote:
Do you? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/07/17 at 09:08:35 God is the bully,.. he says, do what I say or I will hurt you... I say nothing of the kind... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Paraquat on 04/07/17 at 09:21:24 http://https://pics.onsizzle.com/heh-heh-those-silly-liberals-need-a-safe-space-to-7763629.png --Steve |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/07/17 at 09:49:34 Interesting reply's, It's OK Bot I will add you to my prayer list. When I was a kid I loved my father very much, but I also had a fearful reverence for him because he set the rules and I was expected to follow them. It was always my free will and choice to obey but I also knew that there were consequences when I did not comply. Therefore I had a healthy fear for his judgment. I knew that my father hated to punish me because he loved me, after all he brought me into this world and only wanted the best for me. But I also understood that it was necessary and JUST when he did punish me. It doesn't matter if you believe or not, our society and ALL societies operate in the same way. Someone is making the rules and someone is distributing justice. Everybody that post on this site "IF GOD IS REAL" has broken his rules. Now If I broke the rules and raped someone's Daughter or sister I am sure that they would expect JUSTICE. If I went before the court and the Judge let me go everyone would cry INJUSTICE because I did not get what I deserve. Well end the end God is the ultimate judge, and just as it is my choice to break mans law it is also my choice to break god's law. Either way I should expect to be held accountable.........and I believe in the end we all will. And yes we should all have fear of that. Why because God is just! In eternity humans will be divided, "yes I believe that ALL humans will live for eternity" the question is do you want to live with God or without him. If, it is YOUR choice, to have nothing to do with God, then he will grant you that wish. He loves you that much. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 10:11:35 7C625958415D5448310 wrote:
If God is real, why would you fear Him/Her? If He loves me, why would He want me to fear Him? Respect and fear are NOT the same things. A couple of questions - how do YOU know what God's rules are? How can we as humans know? God's mystery is just that then... a mystery. Who was inspired to write the Bible? Who translated it? Are all other religions outside Christianity wrong? Are all the Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, various African tribal members, etc. going to hell for not believing in God? What about before the Bible was written? Were all those people doomed? Are all the ancient Egyptians doomed? Lastly, would God condemn an atheist who helped others, gave to charity - maybe donated bone marrow for a loved one? Would God do that? You see - God in your mind is not God in everyone's mind. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/17 at 10:12:16 2234233E26333E25510 wrote:
Nothing like the parable of the sun and the north wind, but still sad. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by verslagen1 on 04/07/17 at 10:17:23 7342514252564257230 wrote:
argumentum ad absurdum |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 10:23:45 If you want more qualifying, of/to my answer/reply, you might look up Proverbs 1. Much of the Bible is very abstract to me, some poetic, and most of it escapes my ability to grasp the context when reading. Solomon I can relate to, very pragmatic as he himself experienced of what what he shared.... I find myself migrating toward folk that share a commonality with, for it is easier for me to relate, and hopefully learn things that help me to live and think in better terms. The fear is not of wrath, no, but of the understanding of what my life would be like with a God void in my life. It would be suffocating in nature, as if our planet held no oxygen. This is why when Bot replied it's sad, for folks to believe, be it anything, if it brings a better life to those who put their wherewithal into it. Please continue ;D |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 10:32:35 77647C61647262050 wrote:
Who wrote the Bible? Who translated the Bible? Are all other religious writings null and void that are not the Bible? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/07/17 at 10:34:39 56455D40455343240 wrote:
You didn't ask about belief in God,... you asked if we feared him. Atheists don't fear myths... we can respect some of the lessons the teach, but not out of fear. What moral value is, being a good person only because you fear punishment ? Be good or Santa won't bring you presents?.. Blackmail... Being good should be reward in itself. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by thumperclone on 04/07/17 at 10:42:42 God is love I fear not |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 10:48:14 485E49544C59544F3B0 wrote:
You didn't ask about belief in God,... you asked if we feared him. Atheists don't fear myths... we can respect some of the lessons the teach, but not out of fear. What moral value is, being a good person only because you fear punishment ? Be good or Santa won't bring you presents?.. Blackmail... Being good should be reward in itself. [/quote] I fear punishment...... where did I say that? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 10:49:32 796578607D687F6E616263680D0 wrote:
Yes, and love SHOULD be our witness.... But, :-[ |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 10:55:56 Who wrote the Bible? Does it negate all other religions? Bueller?...... Bueller?...... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/07/17 at 11:42:15 T, I understand all your questions, I was actually right where you are at one time in my life many years ago. You have asked a LOT of questions, way too many to answer in one email. If you wanted to try and answer one at a time I would be happy to participate. I assure you this, there are answers but as is everything in life you have to search for the truth. You are correct that there is a difference between respect and fear.....the word fear is usually used because in scripture there are verses that use that word when translated into English such as Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy one is understanding. In this context fear is a place of reverence but not lacking in the common state of being afraid. I promise you, none of us live up to the standard of being HOLY and we would be quite neglectful not to be concerned of the consequences of that. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 11:51:47 19073C3D2438312D540 wrote:
Then take one question - who wrote the Bible? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/07/17 at 12:18:24 The Holy Bible is not A book. It is a compilation of 66 writings by 40 authors over a period of a couple thousand years. There is poetry, history, personal letters, and gospels that make up the Holy Scriptures or Bible. The Old Testament (which is pre-Jesus) has the 5 books of the Plentitudes or Jewish law along with other history. The New Testament of course is the coming of Jesus and the start of the Christian Church. As far as other religions? Well of course I am going to say that all others are wrong. Not that they are not beneficial to life and wisdom but incorrect in stance they take to Salvation and Heaven. Christianity is actually a very unique faith. ALL religions of the world require "works" things humans must accomplish or do in order to get to Heaven. ONLY in the Christian faith did God who loved his creation act to make a way for Humans to be reconciled to Himself despite the wickedness' of Humans. It is not what you did, but what God did. Now, before you go off on Christians or the faith for this stance let me say there can only be ONE TRUTH. If the Buddhist are right then the Christians are wrong but if the Christians are right then the Buddhist are wrong. God gave you free will to make the choice you want. One of the dumbest things we have in our Post Modern, Relative culture is the belief that truth is Relative to each human being. Just think about that for a couple days. What is the first Sin in the bible? When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. Why did they eat it. So they could be like God........Thousands of years later that is still exactly what we are doing. Establishing our own truth so that we are our own God. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 12:20:44 The Bible was written by man, would be the short answer.... Now, if you want to say man is fallible, then extend it to everyone and everything, yes? Has any other "theory" been scrutinized as much? Do you arbitrarily discount eye witness, and those who suffered greatly for their testimony through the history of time? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 13:29:50 0D132829302C2539400 wrote:
No. You cannot say that. If there is God - then there is God. There is no "right one" or "wrong one". If that were the case, then God made a mistake... sorry - that's not God. Don't get me wrong - I'm agnostic and I have no qualms with anyone's belief as long as it doesn't hurt innocent people intentionally. But to say that one way is the right way - you're fooling yourself and you do a disservice to others. That's how we get to Muslim bans, bigotry, holy wars, extremism, etc. The problem I have is with religion, not faith. Yes, the Bible is more than just a book - but it was indeed written by man. It's been translated over the millennia to fit narratives. At its core, it's flawed - not by its intent, but by Man. We will all meet our end with no exceptions. I think it's safe to say we all fear it to some degree - at least I do. But to solely rely on a book of scriptures to insure a "safe passage" is short sighted. There are more things in the world to consider than that. There are intangibles that can't be read about and have to be experienced. In the end, all we leave behind that lasts are memories of who we were and how we treated others. There are many atheists I've known that have passed on that I hold much more dear than some Christians. That just is what it is.... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/07/17 at 13:29:51 Interesting... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201101/why-americans-are-so-religious Why is America the outlier in it's religiosity?... Healthcare... or lack of it actually... So I suppose it is fear based,... just not how you might think.:-/ |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 13:41:27 I'll read the rest of this latter, but suffice to say from where it appears to lead is richer, smarter, etc, leads folks to to live thinking their destiny is in their control, which, seems true, and as I think you are alluring to re: conservatives, they default to "people of able bodies" etc, looking out for themselves, etc. The scripture tells us many times we are to be as children, call it innocent and ignorant, to this world. For look how believing and thinking, and feeling has played out politically and socially in this nation. It is confrontational and devisive, and harmful to mental health. Blame, point finger, justify, how does that rememdy? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/07/17 at 18:18:11 Actually I can say that....you may not agree and that's fine...your objections to the Bible are just not true, every nonbelievers goes to "the Bible was written by man" " it's been mistranslated" so on and so on.. Actually the Bible is the most accurate book in all antiquity. It has been studied for word to word accuracy for 2000 years.there is more ancient copies and pieces of copies than ANY other book of its age, and not by a small margin. The second most documented is Homer's The Iliad with about 70 ancient copies compared to the books of the Bible with over 250,000....for those that study it no one can change a word without it being recognized. All historians of ancient Jewish history understand the accuracy of the writings. It is supported by secular history, and archeology. No historian disputes it's accuracy, however many dispute it's purpose. For the believer it is penned by man under the influence of the Holy Spirit for the revelation of God to man. This is the authority, the benchmark that I make my claims. So what authority gives you your benchmark to make claims that all God's are the same? What you don't get, and I understand, I really do, I use to be where you are is that I don't look at this as just a beleif, it is in fact reality. Articles such as posted above by Bot where agnostics or atheist try do evaluate religion are just worthless because they do not understand the way believers think. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/07/17 at 19:23:55 MShipley..... Trying to explain to one, I'll use biblical terms, that is blind and mute, is a waste of words. They, in their current state of awareness, lack the capacity to understand..... I know I pretended for many years to believe, because I wanted to give the appearance that I "got it"..... It was not very satisfying, nor did it give me any assurances in life. I was just another poser pretending I was wise, in life. Man's greatest handicap is his thinking, it has caused more harm than any other source, even to themselves, yet they would deny it to death. Walking the talk, will give opportunity to lead the blind.... For who can deny what they witness themselves. Sadly, as believers, we have failed to heed that of which we preach, too often. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/07/17 at 19:26:35 544A717069757C60190 wrote:
I'm not a non-believer, I'm agnostic (there is a difference). But to think that over half the world is "wrong"? Sorry, that doesn't gel. I can't imagine a God that would forsake 2/3 of His creation. To be clear - it is YOUR reality, not mine. If you were to travel to a place where there is no Bible, no God as you see it - YOU would be the outcast, the non-believer. Their reality would not support you. I on the other hand will not pretend to think that I know squat about diddly when it comes to a higher being. We as humans just can't know. The best we can figure is that there must be SOME reason why. It's not just the Bible that can help someone find the way. There are other ways to get in touch with God. Faith, not religion is key. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/07/17 at 19:53:40 Raydawg, its all good, we all do our best but fail, just know that God still loves you, remember Thomas..... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by thumperclone on 04/09/17 at 16:45:07 2A39213C392F3F580 wrote:
the greatest and hardest 'commandment' love thy neighbor as thyself |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/09/17 at 18:36:39 35263E23263020470 wrote:
I seem to recall something in the bible about being Wise as serpents and harmless as a dove. Ignorance and wisdom are rarely found in the the same man. I don't know of any I've met who were both. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/10/17 at 12:47:24 So then.... how old is the Earth? How old is the Universe? According to the Bible, that is... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by verslagen1 on 04/10/17 at 14:00:20 3A242B2A273A213C4E0 wrote:
time is relative, if you ask the earth what a day is, it might say that's a second. To a god a day may be 1 revolution of the galaxy. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/10/17 at 14:22:27 213225243B3630323966570 wrote:
time is relative, if you ask the earth what a day is, it might say that's a second. To a god a day may be 1 revolution of the galaxy.[/quote] SMH... ok... Thanks for the "answer"... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MnSpring on 04/10/17 at 14:25:59 6771667B63767B60140 wrote:
3224332E36232E35410 wrote:
465857565B465D40320 wrote:
Understand, where a Atheist, (which is believing, in NOT believing) Or Antagonistic, (Which simply do not Believe in anything) are coming from, when they say they do not, fear, a God/Deity, and no one else should. So if a Religion/Beliefs, says, in their, ‘Book of writings’, (which they ‘believe’ in) Says: “ I KILL YOU if you do NOT Believe in ‘MY’ Religion. They simply, do not, ‘believe’, it. And IGNORE, all the Proof, World Wide, for 1,000’s of years, And that is why, they believe, a person saying: “I KILL YOU because, . . . . . . . . “ Should be ignored, because they, ignore it. (and say you should also) Now for the people, that, ‘Believe’, in a God or Deity. and a, ‘book of writings’. (Which are the very, Very, VERY, VAST Majority) Of people on this Spaceship. They, ‘believe’, when someone says: “I KILL YOU . . . . . . . “ Because of their ‘belief’. And that ‘belief’ does not just come from, that, religions, ‘Book Of Writings’, It comes from, what happened, YESTERDAY, and the DAY Before, and the day before that, and, etc. etc. etc. Any, ‘Belief’, (or none), is Irrelevant. It is that person, which has their beliefs. And that is, theirs. And it causes no harm. Campaigning, for a particular, belief, sure, ALL, religions have, and will continue to do so. Who does not remember the, 'Hare Krishna's', passing out books in airports ? (Which that is a spin off of, Hinduism) All, beliefs, (or non) are Just fine. Until that, ‘religion’, says: “I KILL YOU ………” |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by MShipley on 04/10/17 at 16:25:31 T...I think if you are interested in what the Bible has to say then perhaps it would serve you well to read it......you might find it interesting. :D |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/10/17 at 17:41:26 3C222D2C213C273A480 wrote:
time is relative, if you ask the earth what a day is, it might say that's a second. To a god a day may be 1 revolution of the galaxy.[/quote] SMH... ok... Thanks for the "answer"...[/quote] You might not have liked it, but Versy is correct. Consider this, if man finds a way to travel faster that the speed of light, the time it takes an "imagine" to travel from its point and place in time, to the observer, place and time, he will then be able to overcome the constraints of time, and travel wherever he wants. BTW, the speed of light is no longer the fastest recorded measurement anymore. PS: I think this might be the way to heaven too :) |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/10/17 at 18:30:38 What was measured faster than light? Also, questions like the one TT asked are NEVER asked of Muslims. Maybe the one asking the question is afraid they'll get blown up, but more likely it's a demonstration of something deeper.... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/10/17 at 19:13:11 7B494E5F58495E614D5E472C0 wrote:
I am not even close to understanding this stuff... http://bigthink.com/dr-kakus-universe/what-travels-faster-than-the-speed-of-light |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/10/17 at 19:45:35 aw.....no. The galactic speed limit is still secure. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/11/17 at 05:14:30 7C4E49585F4E59664A59402B0 wrote:
Yes, that is true, but in a controlled vacuum environment not so.... I will extend my observation that it, research, etc, must begin somewhere. I read where time travel into the past, however, is not doable, I guess Back To The Future was a hoax ;D It would present all sorts of paradoxes wouldn't it :o In my heart I believe all this research of the cell and space with powerful equipment will lead to reveal a God :) |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 05:20:35 The value of C is in a controlled environment.There are a few physical laws which have been studied for 100's years with no way found around them, thermodynamics and speed of light for example. To break those would be a miracle. In fact, the correct definition of a miracle is an event which violates the physical laws that govern this world. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/11/17 at 06:15:09 4C7E79686F7E69567A69701B0 wrote:
OK - all you Muslims out there.... How old does the Qur'an say the Universe is???? (all better?).... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/11/17 at 06:16:28 Well... C is a constant - except when you consider photons in Planck time... |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 06:39:26 I can use Google myself, thanks. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/11/17 at 07:42:01 So, if I'm on a train running five MPH slower than the speed of light and someone standing next to tracks points a flashlight down the line, I'll be able to see the beam of light overtake me, AND when it catches me, I can flip on my flashlight which is moving a just shy of the speed of light, and my beam wont pass the beam that is catching me? And what happens if you are going Faster than the Speed of Light and turn on your flashlight? Does all that light go backwards, into the flashlight and melt the batteries? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 07:53:58 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
Since you can't travel faster than light, you would blow up into a million pieces and reformulate as a liberal snowflake. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by raydawg on 04/11/17 at 08:07:43 So the fly in the cockpit of a fighter jet is not flying at Mach 2 ? ;D |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 08:33:39 45564E53564050370 wrote:
The fly in a cockpit of a fighter jet is moving at mach 2. If he flies forward, he's moving at mach 2 + his velocity. The way to think about this is to imagine if the jet and the fly crash into an unmovable object. The damage to the fly will be as if the fly hit a wall at mach 2. That's why your coffee goes flying all over if you are taking a drink and have to slam on the brakes. The coffee is still traveling at whatever speed you were going before you started slowing down. The other way to think of this is to imagine the fly carried a GPS device that you could monitor. Imagine you could plot the distance the fly traveled over a given amount of time. knowing those two variables, you would calculate that the fly was moving at Mach 2. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by verslagen1 on 04/11/17 at 08:37:36 Just last night was watching Nasa's deepest secrets (or something like that) They said a galaxy was not behaving to the laws of physics... traveling faster than the speed of light. The answer is simple, they are moving, we are moving, neither one is exceeding the speed of light but relative speed is greater than the speed of light. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/11/17 at 09:10:51 So, faster than light travel is possible, but in an expanding universe it'll get you nowhere... fast... :-? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 09:16:40 without cheating and looking on Google, I wonder what the explanation is? Not exactly sure how the speed of a receding galaxy is measured, but guessing it has something to do with it's red shift. Assuming it's accurate, how can a receding galaxy move faster than light? Got to be an easy explanation....... You're right, if we are moving one directing and they are moving the other, they are not actually exceeding the speed of light. But again, light does not follow those rules so if they are measuring red shift, they shouldn't be able to measure it faster than light.....? |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 09:38:45 495F48554D58554E3A0 wrote:
Perhaps ray's original link holds the key. the expanding universe is moving faster than light. I give up. I'm going to cheat and look it up while i'm eating lunch. |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by WebsterMark on 04/11/17 at 09:45:43 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-can-galaxies-move-faster-than-the-speed-of-light-video/ at the 3:30 mark |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by Serowbot on 04/11/17 at 10:50:05 695B5C4D4A5B4C735F4C553E0 wrote:
I don't get a video... sometimes, Linux sucks.. >:( |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/11/17 at 12:47:20 0E3C3B2A2D3C2B14382B32590 wrote:
Learning is not "cheating" - it's what Google's for! http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae169.cfm |
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Title: Re: Do you? Post by T And T Garage on 04/11/17 at 12:53:12 697F68756D78756E1A0 wrote:
I don't get a video... sometimes, Linux sucks.. >:([/quote] Different video, but have a look: https://phys.org/news/2015-10-galaxies-faster.html Us Linux based guys have to stick together...lol |
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