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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bought my first savage, got a few questions. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1500381934 Message started by metalbrian45 on 07/18/17 at 05:45:32 |
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Title: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/18/17 at 05:45:32 Hi guys, new to the forum and Savages. A little background; I just picked up a 2003 Savage for my girlfriend last week from a fellow who purchased it new for his wife to learn to ride but never did. This bike had 237 (yep, 237!) original miles, and had been kept in a garage. It had been through several moves and seem to have been forgotten for some time. It didn't run, had a dead battery, but it turned over when jumped. I paid a grand total of $625 for this bike and took it home. When I got it home I realized the CDI box had been jacked from the bike, and the carb was full of ethanol gunk. $49 CDI box, a carb cleaning, and a battery and our Savage is up and running hard! I've put a little over 100 miles on it with no serious problems so far. On to my questions. I feel like the jetting is off on this bike. I am at 500ft elevation, the bike SEEMS (I'm no expert) to be lean. It was a constant backfireing/popping on decel and after revving. It's no an occasional pop, it is consistent. Also, acceleration is strong up to about 80% throttle, but at WOT it seems to strain and lose power. I want to add a pipe with weld-in baffle as an exhaust instead of the stocker, and replace the air filter with a cone filter, so should I adjust the jetting while the bike is in stock form to get it right as is, or go ahead and swap the exhaust and breather and re-jet for the final product. And does anyone have a good starting place for my jetting at my elevation? Thanks for the help. TL;DR/Cliff notes. New Savage's jetting seems lean on top end and has constant decel pop. Need suggestions on starting point for re-jet and advice on jetting before or after intake and exhaust upgrade. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/18/17 at 05:48:03 One more for the hell of it. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Papa Bear on 07/18/17 at 05:54:16 Like riding a flying pony 8-) |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Rodger on 07/18/17 at 05:55:01 Welcome to the forum, Brian, Sounds like you got a real bargain there, even with having to replace the CDI! My brand-new, box-stock 2015 S40 backfired BADLY when rolling off the throttle and when shutting down after a ride. (I'm at 6,000+ feet above sea level, btw.) Per the instructions in the Tech Section, removed the pilot screw brass plug & turned the pilot screw counterclockwise 1/2 turn. No more loud backfires, just a bit of light "chuffing" on deceleration & a soft poof when shutting down. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Dave on 07/18/17 at 06:15:29 For you elevation I would recommend a #50 or #52.5 pilot jet, a #150 main, and 3 number 4 machine screw washers on the needle in place of the white spacer. If you still have a lean surge at light throttle settings, remove 1 washer from the needle and try running 2 washers. Adjust the idle fuel mixture screw for the smoothest running - you will need to drop the rpm a bit lower for the adjustment (800 rpm) - but be sure to set it back up to 1,100 rpm so the cam will be properly lubed. A higher idle speed can also help to reduce the backfire issue. Even with a properly jetted bike - the backfire on deceleration is somewhat inherent in the big single, and you can reduce the problem by avoiding the situation that causes it. Don't let the throttle snap closed when you shift gears - just slowly roll the throttle off and don't let it close completely.....leave it open a slight amount (you will learn how far you can close it to shift smoothly and quietly). Same thing for when you are decelerating......don't close the throttle completely - roll on just enough throttle to cut down on the noise. You don't want to open the throttle so much that you are making power - just enough to stop the noise. (It is all part of being a good Savage rider). |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/18/17 at 06:56:39 Great, so I should go ahead and rejet to your suggested settings before further mods? Then adjust as necessary? Also, are the machine washers a different thickness than the number 4 plastic washer I see most people suggest? Thanks for all the help! |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Dave on 07/18/17 at 07:40:07 3C3425303D332338303F6564510 wrote:
No.....don't "reject" my suggestions! ;D The jetting I suggested is a good starting point...and likely may be where you stay. I went through a long process of going up and down and mixing and matching.....and I have suggested what turned out to work well on the stock engine in my 500' - 800' elevation riding area. That jetting also works well with the DYNA muffler. The nylon washers are not the recommended ones - those are only being used by folks who can't find the steel ones at their local hardware store. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/18/17 at 07:54:29 Fixed lol. Ok, I will go with these settings and see how that works. Thanks a lot for the advice! |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by ero4444 on 07/18/17 at 15:34:51 holy cow, what a deal. and it flys |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by batman on 07/18/17 at 22:42:12 A straight pipe with or without a baffle and a cone filter are probably the two worst things your can do from a performance stand point. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by IslandRoad on 07/18/17 at 23:34:51 I would LOVE to put a cone filter and a header wrap on my bike - I love the look. But, having done some reading (on here, and the Interwebs in general) I just can't do it! I appreciate 'style'. But, style that is meant to make a bike look more 'high performance' but will most likely undermine performance/longevity, is just something I can't bring myself to do, |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/19/17 at 06:14:39 I wasn't aware that "stage 1" as we call them in the Harley world would negatively affect performance if properly jetted. I have a dyna muffler I can use instead of the baffled pipe, would that be a better option? I just hate how they look. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Dave on 07/19/17 at 06:21:17 Here is a YouTube video that explains the issue with drag pipes, and other muffler options. Although it is for Harley bikes.....our engine is essentially half a V-Twin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjKUKhHQLHg |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by eau de sauvage on 07/19/17 at 06:46:45 Instead of a cone filter, wouldn't it be better to buy a piece of polyurethane foam, the type that is meant to be oiled, then oil it up with some proper Belray filter oil and attach it directly to the carb with a hose clamp? |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by batman on 07/19/17 at 07:06:40 M-B45,the Dyan muffler is a good move, for a couple of reasons, one is they weigh about half as much as the stock muffler ( the savings in weight is like getting 1 hp for free) and they have less backpressure and when the carb is rejetted and you do the spacer mod you'll gain 1or 2 more horse power (and a better ,deeper sound)without any sag in the torque curve .You may think the Dyna doesn't look good but it looks much better than the huge stock one .A cone filter mounted on the carb won't do as much for performance as a K&N slide in replacement for the stock filter or an Oldfeller's home made filter (see it in the Tech section,at a cost of about $10). |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Eegore on 07/19/17 at 08:29:14 What makes the stock air filter box more efficient than a cone or other custom setup? Is it the pressure/flow setup from the shape? |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/19/17 at 08:38:43 Great, thanks guys. I will give the dyna muffler a shot and check out the filter mod. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by Dave on 07/19/17 at 11:30:45 4161636B7661040 wrote:
With the cone arrangement, the air flow is turbulent and misdirected as it enters the carb - and there is little or no established flow to help dampen the pulses of the intake air. The stock airbox has a smooth length of tubing between the filter and carb that allows the air to establish an "average"flow that softens the pulses - and that allows more air to flow when you are using a lot of throttle (It also reduces the noise of the intake). Most modern engine builders tune the intake plumbing to maximize the air flow and reduce noise. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/19/17 at 12:40:05 Exhaust theory is something everyone knows exists. Intake theory is as valid. The charge is drawn in by a low pressure surge. Exhaust gas is at least positively pushed out. A correct volume of air between the filter and carburetor helps. I'm not seeing the article I read. https://www.bing.com/search?q=intake+design+theory&qs=AS&pq=intake+design+the&sc=2-17&cvid=D806B451D87B43ABA8C0A116CA05A51F&FORM=QBRE&sp=1 |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by verslagen1 on 07/19/17 at 13:01:22 0020222A3720450 wrote:
The stock carb has a port on the upper portion of the intake that greatly benefits a straight portion of duct leading to the carb. There are a few pod filters out there that block this port entirely and the performance of the carb suffers. Generally, if you put a straight duct the same length as the stock rubber ducky, performance is restored. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by batman on 07/19/17 at 14:29:44 performance can be increased beyond stock by lengthening the intake still further (my total intake is 17" effective length 18" I used 2" pvc ,inside a gutted, modified, stock air box. Filters moved to the outside of the box .the bike appears stock) total intake length is measured from the intake valve to the opening ,minus the radius of the intake tube. You should check out www.phaedrus.me/id158.html and www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html for more info. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by SALB on 07/20/17 at 11:28:01 393120353836263D353A6061540 wrote:
If you absolutely HAVE to have a drag pipe, take a look at the ones Raask and Blue Collar Bobbers (BCB) used to sell. Both had the baffle placed about where your right footpeg sits. I can't help but ask, does it still have the original, 14 year old tires? |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by metalbrian45 on 07/20/17 at 11:49:09 It does have the origianl tires! I checked them out, they are still pretty supple. That's one of the first things I checked. I also had another idea for a weld in baffle. Check the exhaust thread I just posted. Not quite a "drag pipe" as you put it. |
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Title: Re: Bought my first savage, got a few questions. Post by ohiomoto on 07/20/17 at 12:11:42 I would clean up the jetting with the stock or Dyna first. Then, once you have a baseline, experiment with you're idea. This way you'll know how bad, or not you're hurting the performance. |
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