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Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 07:15:58

Title: Are you curious
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 07:15:58

Or maybe you have found the clues,, and reached the only rational conclusions..

But
This is new to me,

I haven't fact checked the primary quote.

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/why-i-love-schools-that-ban-books/

s go all the way back to the beginning of the American public-education system and Thomas Jefferson, who tried (and failed) to get a bill passed in the Virginia legislature. Jefferson:

“But if it is believed that these elementary schools will be better managed by…[any] general authority of the government, than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.…No, my friend, the way to have good and safe government, is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to.”

Jefferson’s vision was hundreds of small wards within each state. Each ward would have its own public school, and the parents—not the government—would manage it and fund it.

Such fragmented control insulates against what we have, which is a real turd.

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by raydawg on 07/29/17 at 10:07:50

Jog, it sounds nice, however, if folks were put in charge of it, they would ensure their own got what they needed first.
So many factors could sway the resources available to teach.
It could have given us a ghetto nation where chances to succeed were decided by location.

No Jog, I think you are wrong.
We do not need more separation.
What we need is a voting system with verifiable integrity AND voters to choose candidates that "get er' done" if not, FIRE them.

Our votes have the capacity to change things in a system we don't like.
the election of Trump is proof to that.
Such an outsider, with no experience in the protocol of how these DC clowns and lobbyist tweak the outcomes to their own personal gains.

Make no mistake, Trump is like a bull in the china shop, even in his own administration, goodness, no one is safe from his ranting tweets.....
But, look beyond him for the moment, seeing how the voters didn't succumb to the system and its orchestrated predictions.
If you do, you will see the change is on.
Voters are using the votes, to change what they can.
Starting from the top, down, seems the best way, for if they start at the bottom, minor political players, the power above them hold sway to make them heed to the established rules....

Have faith amigo.....
This energy of change is just getting started.
All the negative press, etc, is only fueling it faster, and further, and those pushing it, delusional, for they didn't see it coming, nor will they willingly accept the reality of it.
They still label it ( deplorable's ) wrong, and will fight it till their last gasp of air.

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 10:11:41

You know why what wasn't done won't work.
Exactly WHAT would they See to it
That would be Given that is wrong?
Are you saying that the Parents who feed and clothe their children would not educate them right?
Would they NOT see the nearest places and Their approach and That result and adopt the good and avoid the bad?
How's the centralized power idea working out?

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by raydawg on 07/29/17 at 10:59:27

We have seen feudalism fail before, so would it again.

Who wants to load more folks, upon a ship who decks are full, only to chance peril, to all, from its over laden responsibilities?

Parents have the power to love their children now Jog, to take their welfare as paramount, and do what is needed.
To abdicate that, to others for what, convenience, then leaves you without total control of what you claim, control, over......?????

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 11:07:32

Answer the questions.
Then
How is it Abdication when Control is maintained in the community?
What IS sending your kids into a school so out of touch with the people Now?

Using words you don't understand undermine s your argument

·ism
[ch712]fyo[ch862]odl[ch716]iz[ch601]m]
NOUN
the dominant social system in medieval Europe, in which the nobility held lands from the Crown in exchange for military service, and vassals were in turn tenants of the nobles, while the peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the produce, notionally in exchange for military protection.

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by raydawg on 07/29/17 at 12:44:58

Its not much different.

Except........

We have a vote.

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 13:05:41

You can start over..

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by MnSpring on 07/29/17 at 15:29:33

455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/why-i-love-schools-that-ban-books/

Banning Books/Teaching.

Reading that, (Whether is has/is happening, but the, premise, of it happening)

Yea, Banning Books, a good Idea.
IN THE OPEN
Is a good thing.
Do not let the, ‘government’ control what you think.
YOU, decide.
(Otherwise it is JUST, “Propaganda”)

So that school, is, governed by a Board, which is elected.
If the majority of parents, sending their kids to that school, disagree, with the, ‘Policy’, they Simply Voice their opinion, and or, Recall or vote OUT, what does not agree.
If they totally agree, that's where, ’their’ kids go.
And the other kids, probably some other place.

The problem arises, when it is,
Hidden and Covert.

How many Parents KNOW, what the total Policies, and what is taught?
THAT is when, (Because MOST, Parents don’t care),
they, ’TRUST’, the school to do right.

But being in the OPEN, Great, Send your kids their,
or, FIRE, the School Board.
Pick one. But ONLY, when it is in the OPEN, not Covert.

Their are schools that teach Only, Creationism, or, Evolution.
Most teach both, and let, YOU/STUDENT Decide.
(Probably some that teach the Earth is Flat)
YOU, Choose where to send you kid to.

Looking back, how many copy’s of, ‘Catcher in the Ry’, or, ‘Lord of the Flies’, were in the school library?
(But every got a copy, and read them)

YOUR, elected School Board, should reflect, YOUR, POV.
YOU, and only YOU, have the power to hire and fire them.

If their is a case, where you can, ONLY send to one School,
and you have no, ‘Voice’, in what is happening.
Simple, that is, (JUST, “Propaganda”)

Will be interesting to follow this, and see,
True/Not, & Ramifications.

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by MnSpring on 07/29/17 at 16:25:15

27342C31342232550 wrote:

" ... Starting from the top, down, seems the best way, for if they start at the bottom, minor political players, the power above them hold sway to make them heed to the established rules...."

The way, I disagree with.
Reason. If the ’small’, elected people, are held accountable.
The next level higher, will, ‘learn’.
“Gee we can’t get away with this crap”
Then the next, and the next, etc, etc.

What I believe, is, the, ’small’, have gotten away,
with PADDING their POCKETS, for far to long.
And the next level up, ‘Learned’, ’This works’, so they do it.
Then the next, and the next, etc, etc.

So to, ’clean the Swamp’, start in your Town, County, State, etc.
It is up to, US.
Not someone else,
(or Pizza/Beer/Re-runs)

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 16:48:06

But if it is believed that these elementary schools will be better managed by…[any] general authority of the government, than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by MnSpring on 07/29/17 at 16:54:02

In thinking more about this.

Did the, ‘Big’, learn from the, ‘Small’ ???
Or did the, ’Small’, learn from the ‘Big’ ?

Case in point, In Grade School, (mid 60’s ), a family, just a couple of blocks away, their kids, always told/bragged, EVERY YEAR, going on a, Exotic Vacation. To Mexico, Hawaii, Paris, etc.
Everyone thought they were, ‘Rich’.
They were Not, Just that their Dad, worked for the, ‘Public’, School, and was in charge of buying, ALL the Sports Equipment, for that school. And, ALL the equipment, was of the, SAME BRAND.

Never really thought about it, (Hey I was a KID)

Many Years Later, a Huge, Sports Equipment Seller in St. Paul MN went under.
We sent letters/filers to All Schools in the 5 state area.
(LONG before e-mail)

Morning of the first day, the sidwalk was LINED, with Buyers.
They, all, had letters of Credit, from their Bank.
AND EVERY ONE, was a ‘parochial/ private’, School.
NOT a SINGLE one was a, ‘Public’ School, buyer.
NOT ONE.

Then, I understood.

So that, is the reason, Small to Big.

Title: Re: Are you curious
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/17 at 17:14:27

than by the parents within each ward,