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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> He prayed....... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1506789680 Message started by raydawg on 09/30/17 at 09:41:20 |
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Title: He prayed....... Post by raydawg on 09/30/17 at 09:41:20 Prayer is the focusing of ones thoughts in a positive manner..... It can have far reaching effects, I know it first hand. I have prayed from the gurney in a hospital emergency ward, awaiting my turn to be seen, for my wife. She beat me to the hospital because she was flown in on a life flight helicopter. I know its power, and I know its freedom. I know it works. I love this article, what a breath of fresh air to those seeking to free their lungs from the stench of DC. Its sad we don't see how people to people, helping and caring for others, before themselves, is not more reported and shared by the media. Everybody prayed for Scalise, who prayed for others in life-death moment Rep. Steve Scalise returns to Congress, discusses shooting Mike Emanuel reports on the congressman's emotional return to the Capitol. They prayed. They prayed in the dugout on the practice field. They prayed before the congressional baseball game at Nationals Park. They prayed at the hospital. They prayed at the Capitol. They prayed in churches. They prayed in synagogues. They prayed in mosques. Congressional leaders prayed. Foreign leaders prayed. The president of the United States prayed. They prayed when he went into surgery. They prayed when he came out. They prayed when doctors tilted his condition back to critical a few weeks later due to an infection. A gunman shot House Majority Whip Steve Scalise, R-La., at the Republican baseball practice June 14 at Eugene Simpson Stadium Park in Alexandria, Va. Shrapnel pulverized Scalise’s pelvis, sliced through organs and tissue and shattered his femur. Bullets sprayed U.S. Capitol Police Special Agents Crystal Griner and David Bailey, congressional aide Zack Barth and lobbyist Matt Mika. To escape the fusillade, Scalise dragged himself on his stomach across the infield dirt from second base to short right field. And then from the grass, Scalise gasped the first invocation about the evil that pierced that morning’s baseball practice. “When I was laying on that ball field, the first thing I did once I was down and I couldn’t move any more is I started to pray,” said Scalise addressing the House upon his return to Congress on Thursday. “I will tell you it gave me an unbelievable sense of calm, knowing that at, at that point, it was in God’s hands.” “Our prayers have been answered,” thundered House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., from the dais, recognizing Scalise to speak. “Thank God that our prayers are answered,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., echoed at a press conference an hour or so later. Joy marked Scalise’s return to Capitol Hill. But his journey was steeped in prayer. The image of Democrats huddling in the dugout at their own baseball practice to pray after learning of the carnage across town. Democrats and Republicans on the outfield turf at Nationals Park the night of the congressional baseball game as Major League great Steve Garvey led them in prayer. Lawmakers bowing their heads in prayer together on the House floor. Prayer groups at the First United Methodist Church in Slidell, La. “I’m definitely a living example that miracles really do happen,” said Scalise, standing at a lectern in the House chamber in a silk red tie, royal blue tennis shoes peaking out below his trouser cuffs, as a reminder of his injuries. “I prayed for very specific things. And I will tell you every one of those prayers was answered. And there were some pretty challenging prayers I was putting in God’s hands. But He really did deliver for me and my family. And it gives you that renewed faith and understanding that the power of prayer is something you cannot underestimate.” We learned just how grave Scalise’s condition was two days after the shooting, during a press conference at the MedStar Washington Health Center. “Our family asks that you continue to pray for Steve,” said Scalise’s Chief of Staff Brett Horton reading a statement from the House Majority whip’s wife, Jennifer. Dr. Jack Sava is the director of Trauma at MedStar. He described the loss of blood and explained how there are “hundreds of fragments” lodged inside Scalise’s pelvis near organs and blood vessels. “He was in critical condition with an imminent risk of death,” said Sava, describing Scalise’s arrival at the hospital by helicopter. And people prayed. Scalise remained in critical condition that afternoon at the hospital. But Sava offered some good news. “It’s my job to be pessimistic,” Sava said. “I feel a lot more optimistic.” He noted that with proper time and treatment, Scalise had a good chance of being able to walk again, and, hopefully run. Prayers continued. Prayers poured in when Scalise’s condition slipped back to critical because of infection issues and another surgery in early July. But that was expected from the beginning. There would be ups and downs. Dips and turns. But there seemed to be one constant. Prayer. “We saw prayer groups and well wishes being given from people we had never met before,” said Scalise on the House floor. “The power of prayer was something else I saw firsthand.” Scalise met briefly with Ryan in the Speaker’s Ceremonial Office just off the House floor before Capitol security officials ushered him into the chamber to speak. When asked how it was to see his colleague, an obviously shaken Ryan sighed, paused and kind of shook his head. “There are no words,” the speaker said. Later, Ryan recalled visiting Scalise in the hospital when he couldn’t talk and was unconscious. But it was emotional to have the whip -- whom Ryan called “Steve-o” -- back at the Capitol. “I’m not like (former House Speaker) John Boehner .I’m not a big crier,” Ryan said. “But I was just a babbling idiot. I could not compose myself.” Ryan spoke of how he hoped the scene would chasten the tenor of the often noxious Capitol Hill debate. “Let’s treat people with respect. And let’s pray for each other,” said Ryan. Agents Bailey and Griner were part of Scalise’s protective detail. Scalise says the gunman’s bullets may have incapacitated him, but the officers consumed his thoughts. “When I was laying on the ground one of the things I prayed for was that David and Crystal would be successful in carrying out their duties,” said Scalise. He soon heard “a different caliber weapon,” which told him the officers “engaged the shooter.” Griner is still recovering from her injuries. But Bailey appeared next to Scalise’s wife in the House viewing gallery, earning a shout-out from the whip. “David, you are my hero,” Scalise said. “You saved my life.” After meeting with Ryan, Scalise hobbled into the House chamber to deliver his return address. I asked the Louisiana Republican what message he had for his colleagues. “If you fight and you persevere, you can overcome anything,” he declared. And Scalise might add, pray. BTW, I pray for myself too.....I need lots of it. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by T And T Garage on 10/03/17 at 11:49:30 Maybe God let all those people die in Las Vegas to wake up this country on how we control our guns.... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/03/17 at 12:18:44 God gives man freewill, it is not freewill if he intervenes, I am sure he is as displeased as all decent humans are. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by T And T Garage on 10/03/17 at 13:04:37 524C77766F737A661F0 wrote:
If that's the case - then what's the sense in prayer? "Free will" takes lives every day. You just said God doesn't intervene... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by T And T Garage on 10/03/17 at 13:13:59 If I were a Christian - I would not count this man as one of me.... http://www.thedailybeast.com/is-pat-robertson-an-agent-of-god-or-the-other-guy-an-investigation On Monday, before all of the loved ones of all of the dead and maimed in Las Vegas knew the fates of their kin, Robertson said, “The fact that we have disrespect for authority—there is profound disrespect of our president, all across this nation. They say terrible things about him—it’s in the news, it’s in other places. There is disrespect now for our national anthem, disrespect for our veterans, disrespect for the institutions of our government, disrespect for the court system. All the way up and down the line, disrespect.” |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/03/17 at 13:22:36 God does respond to prayer. But he is also sovereign and intervenes as he desires. You may be right in that it was allowed to wake people up. That's a possibility. My point is that when man chooses to pull the trigger it is his free will to do so and God does not typically stop the bullet. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by raydawg on 10/03/17 at 13:47:37 We live in a declining world.... Free will is the only element that was bestowed upon man than no other creation was given. For God to rule in a absolute term would remove that free will. It would remove the choice of choosing him, or not. Would God in total control be the answer to the ills of this world? Where evil is subdued, no tear, no pain, just sustainable joy, every day, moment, second? No liberal, conservative, straight, gay, race, no healthcare to worry, or taxes to pay? |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 16:19:24 Imagine there's no heaven... it's easy if you try... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/03/17 at 16:22:06 That would be sad......if there isn't then why do any of us care about anything? What's the point of being good? |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 16:30:08 Do you require reward for being decent?... How sad... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 16:35:08 I knew a self proclaimed atheist. He was as fair, honest and decent as anyone I've known. I've been royally screwed by self proclaimed Christians. The heart of man is a strange thing. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 16:39:23 If you consider the claim that God grants free will,... why would he promise eternal life?... Are you a good man,. if you only act like one to get to heaven?... We are not donkeys... we shouldn't need to be led with a carrot... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 16:44:18 Years of trying to get you to understand that Free Will INCLUDES seeing the darkness in our own heart, and knowing it's not what our Father Wants from us, we, freely,ask him to Change our hearts, our eyes that we see the world through, so we can see others the right way and have the right heart. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/03/17 at 16:46:00 Bot, I am not trying to be argumentative or rude, it's just a philosophical question I have pondered often. Forget reward, if there are no consequences for our actions why do we care. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/03/17 at 16:59:20 1204130E16030E15610 wrote:
First for the sake of discussion let's look at that from a Christian, Biblical perspective. God does not promise eternity to anyone because they are good. In fact it says "all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory" humans are inately depraved and Justice would be eternal punishment. Jesus said it is not enough that we don't committ adultery but if we even consider it we are as guilty as committing it. God is Holy we are not. However, God does say he will have mercy on those that he chooses to have mercy on. So, never pray for justice, you may just get that, rather pray for mercy, which none of us deserves. We are never good enough that we obligate God to do anything. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by raydawg on 10/03/17 at 17:19:20 3E283F223A2F22394D0 wrote:
You do not get to heaven by works.... By being good. We are not led like a donkey.... But by a spirit. Not to be good as in this worlds understanding, but to truth of self, which will bring knowledge and understanding greater than oneself. You do not understand this, for you will yourself not to. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 17:51:56 Dawg, my response was to this...(I can't respond to arguments not yet made). 1C023938213D3428510 wrote:
The argument shifts with each reply.... Quote:
Now it argues, punishment instead of reward... Quote:
Now, it negates the original contention... Saying behaviour will grant neither reward nor punishment... In which case I am just as motivated as any Christian to act morally... Quote:
Now it devolves into total nonsense... No reward, no punishment, and now not even a request to be moral... just a search for inner knowledge... Congratulations you have evolved into a Buddhist... Look, as JOg has said... you can find just as many immoral people in religion as out of it... It is virtually irrelevant... Muslims are acting immorally in hope of a reward from God... Christian PP bombers and shooters are the same. Janeists are the only true peaceful followers... the more devout they are, the less dangerous the are... to the point of becoming immobilized from fear of causing harm. Religion is myth... you pick the myth of your choice... If there is a god,... he/she didn't create religion, it is man made. ...(if there is a god,.. I think he'd be pretty pissed about that)... I am an atheist... there are 2700 gods I don't believe in. You don't believe in 2699 of them... We're really pretty close there... you are an atheist minus 1... I act morally because I feel better being compassionate rather than hateful... No promises, no darnations.... Why is that so hard to comprehend?... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by WebsterMark on 10/03/17 at 18:25:35 I think what he's talking about is altruism. Valid point but no other life form exhibits welfare towards another unless it benefits themselve or their group. Which leads back to the idea humans are unique so..... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 18:29:52 093B3C2D2A3B2C133F2C355E0 wrote:
Yes, we are... (but dogs are close ;D)... ... but my point is we don't need religion for this. We are unique due to our intellect... (which may have created religion),.. but, religion didn't create our humanity... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/03/17 at 18:52:03 The initial statement had nothing to do with human intellect or capacity to be what we call (good). Yes people can choose to be (good) within a religious context or not. The statement was "What is the purpose of being good, why does it matter outside of a system of reward and consequences. Our intellect allows us to create social structures in Which people can pretend they are (good) . But what does it matter outside of staying out of jail which makes that behavior selfish. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 19:01:14 If you see a woman about to drive off with her purse on the hood,.. you don't tell her to please God, or to avoid jail... You do it to be kind, because you're human... My point is you can have any god you want,.. but you shouldn't need him to make you human... If you depend on that,.. you are a sociopath..... Normal human behaviour is communal... we have evolved that way... |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/17 at 20:11:38 So what's Wrong with the murderer/rapist? And What must that guy Do to change? Explain the Catch me before I kill again guys.. They Hate what they do. But they Do it. The shameless ones are beyond me to understand. There's only one way to be changed. We don't control the desires of the heart. That can only be changed through prayers answered. Yeah, we have Free Will And his word written in our hearts And we see where we fall short And IF we try, WHY we are how we are can be seen. Then we can take that to our Father and ask him to Change us. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by Serowbot on 10/03/17 at 22:45:49 A murder/rapist may have been exposed to Jesus or not... in this country he most likely was... It didn't take... He is abhorrent to society... Whether you pray or not is irrelevant to what he does... Therefore, religion and God are irrelevant... A psychopath will do what he will do... We can't control his thoughts or beliefs,... and God seems to be indifferent. We can only control his ability to do harm... Mental help might catch the ones that expose themselves... restrictions on the ability of an individual to do harm might help reduce the carnage. Both would help. Inaction does nothing. God, it has been pointed out, don't care... Free will and all... Thanks a lot, God... Pray,.. but it's been stated that that means nothing as well. I agree... Sympathy, hope, prayer, and good wishes,.. are all empty without action. Sh!t, or get of the pot... Take some positive action... In the Vegas case,.. I don't think mental evaluation would have helped,... but in other circumstances it might. In the case of bombings, or car attacks, gun control wouldn't help... but in Vegas it would. But,... you got to sh!t or get off he pot... A famous general once said..."If you don't know what to do,.. do something"... "Doing nothing gets you nowhere"... Are we happy with the way things are?... Per capita,.. we have more violence, and mass violence than anywhere in the civilized world... What aren't we doing?... We should do that... PS.. you all hate my short answers... Bet you hate my long ones too... ;D |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 02:20:27 We can't control his thoughts or beliefs,... and God seems to be indifferent. Didn't read what I said, did you? |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/04/17 at 08:58:03 7D6B7C61796C617A0E0 wrote:
See you have set up a Reward/Consequence system for yourself. If you do what you perceive to be the right thing then you get the reward of feeling good about yourself that you are human and don't suffer the consequences of being labeled a sociopath and feeling bad about yourself. Now there is nothing wrong with that, we all do it. It only becomes a problem in the fact that all people don't agree with your view of what makes someone human vs sociopath. ISIS believes they are doing the right thing. So did Adolph Hitler. So if there is NO MORAL LAW GIVER. Then who determines what is right or wrong? Consequently if we define it by what we individually think is right and wrong then why does any of it matter? It is only your opinion. Perhaps it is your view that the right thing to do is tell the lady she left her purse, however the guy next to you may feel it is right to stay out of her business. The moral high ground is only determined by ones point of view making both irrelevant and meaningless. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 09:08:38 Just as there have always been and always will be poor, so have there always been and always will be unbelievers. Unlike lefties, we don't believe you should be arrested for not believing. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 09:50:14 7B6D7A677F6A677C080 wrote:
I like your long ones...uh, replies, I mean :-[ This you wrote: Therefore, religion and God are irrelevant... This is the crux of any society. It is the hub that holds the spokes, that hold the wheel, that turn the society..... What is that hub? Its called, belief. You assign your belief as right, or superior, that leave no room for others, as this kitchen can have only one cook. You call my belief, irrelevant, I say they are my hub. Why do you challenge my belief? |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by WebsterMark on 10/04/17 at 09:57:17 Below is my post from another thread. I think it applies here as well. Anything and everything can be and has been used as a weapon. The internet is no different than a gun in that sense. Why are we so focused on guns where there are just as many other items of danger? You can't stop everthing and I think we've got enough gun laws as it is now. Something else, I heard Bill O'Reily say gun deaths are the price of freedom in the US. Maybe so, but I heard a lot of people ready to crucify him over that comment. However, how many people go online and read how to commit suicide and then do it? Or how to commit fraud? How many elderly are easily robbed by being hacked? Didn't a girl 'text' her ex-boyfriend to committing suicide? Honestly, just how much more violence is there in the USA because of the immediate access information, and certainly to information that is false? Here in St Louis, we are still having protest over police shootings and much of that anger is over events that never occurred yet were widely disseminated online to a gullible audience. Hands up Don't shoot is one. In the latest case, there is a false believe of a 'kill shot' from 6" away from the victim's head that never happened. But 99% of these idiots blocking freeways here in St Louis believe it happened. Some nut is going to kill a St Louis cop and it will be because of the false news spreading. |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MnSpring on 10/04/17 at 11:28:31 5147504D55404D56220 wrote:
Bot, I like the, ’thinking’, answers, much more than the, ‘Drive-Bys’. To that, can you expound why: “…gun control wouldn’t help… but in Vegas it would…” If a world, with Out, ANY, Firearms in it, would that event have happened ? Would that, ’Nut-Case’, used a different method? |
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Title: Re: He prayed....... Post by MShipley on 10/04/17 at 12:53:11 PS.. you all hate my short answers... Bet you hate my long ones too... ;D [/quote] I don't mind the long replies. What I don't like (and I do understand that I am guilty sometimes) is the mud slinging on this forum. What this forum needs is more conversation and less justification. Diversity is God's creation. I have no problem with different beliefs and ideas. We NEED to be able to openly discuss issues if we are ever to resolve problems. You have never seen me get angry on this forum. You have seen me bow out because conversation stops and justification begins. |
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