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Message started by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 09:26:30

Title: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 09:26:30

The fervor pitch by the media, politicians, Hollywood, etc, after a shooting is definitely agenda driven, that is not arguable.....

I am not faulting them for pitching their beliefs at such a time, who doesn't use examples, to bolster their claims, that is how the world works....

What I don't understand, however, is, it seems their argument is the RESULT of the gun......death.

Let say if you pointed a gun at someone, pulled the trigger, and a spew of profanity greeted the victim in the bullseye, would it still be the gun we blame, or the words, or not at all?

So, the argument seems to be death, yes?
The consequences of using a gun, a manufactured product, yes?

Of course we hold the shooter to part, as we should, for he loaded, pointed, and pulled the trigger, that is first degree murder!

So, if its death, then do we count the severity of the results, and we find a solution in restricting that severity, as exampled, banning automatic weapons, yes?
The argument being a one bullet per pull is safer to society, than those who fire faster, yes?
It (single shot gun) still allows for hunting, sport, and defense, without having the same threat against society, right?

So, am I getting this argument, its about how a gun can kill many, is that right?

Seems feasible.

Why do gun rights activist argue against that?
A gun like that seems to be manufactured for only one use, KILLING

Now, please consider this manufactured product, in your argument too.

If we are out to save lives, BTW, I believe it is a wonderful AND worthy thing, that SHOULD separate man from ALL other creatures on earth, his CARING for his fellow man....

Please, look at the stats re: these products, the death associated with them.
These products result in death, daily, and at a greater number too.

Alcohol-Related Deaths:

An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity.

In 2014, alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 9,967 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).

Economic Burden:

In 2010, alcohol misuse cost the United States $249.0 billion.

Three-quarters of the total cost of alcohol misuse is related to binge drinking.

Global Burden:

In 2012, 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 percent of all global deaths (7.6 percent for men and 4.0 percent for women), were attributable to alcohol consumption.

In 2014, the World Health Organization reported that alcohol contributed to more than 200 diseases and injury-related health conditions, most notably DSM–IV alcohol dependence (see sidebar), liver cirrhosis, cancers, and injuries.13 In 2012, 5.1 percent of the burden of disease and injury worldwide (139 million disability-adjusted life-years) was attributable to alcohol consumption.

Globally, alcohol misuse was the fifth leading risk factor for premature death and disability in 2010. Among people between the ages of 15 and 49, it is the first.14 In the age group 20–39 years, approximately 25 percent of the total deaths are alcohol attributable.

Family Consequences:

More than 10 percent of U.S. children live with a parent with alcohol problems, according to a 2012 study.

Underage Drinking:

Prevalence of Underage Alcohol Use:
Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 33.1 percent of 15-year-olds report that they have had at least 1 drink in their lives.

About 7.7 million people ages 12–2018 (20.3 percent of this age group) reported drinking alcohol in the past month (19.8 percent of males and 20.8 percent of females).

Prevalence of Binge Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 5.1 million people18 (about 13.4 percent) ages 12–20 (13.4 percent of males and 13.3 percent of females) reported binge drinking in the past month.

Prevalence of Heavy Alcohol Use: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 1.3 million people18 (about 3.3 percent) ages 12–20 (3.6 percent of males and 3.0 percent of females19) reported heavy alcohol use in the past month.

Consequences of Underage Alcohol Use:
Research indicates that alcohol use during the teenage years could interfere with normal adolescent brain development and increase the risk of developing AUD. In addition, underage drinking contributes to a range of acute consequences, including injuries, sexual assaults, and even deaths—including those from car crashes.

Did you see this number?
In 2010, alcohol misuse cost the United States $249.0 billion.
That was in 2010 dollars, I wonder what that is now.....???
That could buy a lot of healthcare, schooling, housing, etc, could it not?

As ugly as a gun killing is, if we are talking results of a manufactured product, we are looking at the wrong product, are we not?

Note: booze is number 3 killer, number 2 being fat, lazy, and diet....
You DO NOT get fat starving from a poor diet.

Number ONE killer.......smokes.
That is an easy fix, and an obvious one to who is breaking the law, they stink, and they exhale smoke, well, duh, you are under arrest!

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/04/17 at 13:14:44

Raydawg, I Agree, with your post above.
Almost, Totally, except for:

“…A gun like that seems to be manufactured for only one use, KILLING…”

The vast, Vast, VAST, Majority of Firearms,
Are NOT, “…manufactured for only one use, KILLING…”
Can they be used as such, Sure.
Just like a, Golf Club, Pipe, Screwdriver, etc, etc, etc.

Today, firearms are used for, ’sporting’, and ‘defense’.

Now, ‘Sporting’; Two people at a Trap Range, Competing, or out Duck hunting.
One has a used, Rem 870, (cost 250-350.00)
One has a Krieghoff, (Cost 18,000 - 20,000.00)
(And Yes Virginia, 20 thousand is the Bottom, of the Top end. Some H&H’s can cost, $250,000.00)
Who, will say, ‘Which one’, is, ‘Correct’, for that use ?
Who wins the Competition, who gets the most Ducks ?
It is the, PERSON, NOT, the GUN !

Now, ‘Defense’; So someone, attacks me,
(Or a group attacks a group I am in)
Who, is going to decide, which, ’thing’, I can use?
So If I use a Screwdriver, to stab someone trying to stab me with a knife.
That is OK ?

If I have the most ’tricked’ out, semi-auto, (or fully-auto, fully licensed),
and use it in, seeing how close together I can punch holes in a piece of paper.
(Or in some cases, to make a lot of noise and see how fast it is)
(Golf comes to mind. Again)
And then used it in, ‘Defense’.
That is not, OK ?

In the 1700’s, a firearm, was absolutely necessary to put food on the table.
Today, just go to the Supermarket.
So today, using one for, Food, is a Sport.
And because a firearm, (to many people), is so much more beautiful than a, ‘let’s say, a Golf Club’.
And because, ‘hunting’, is a sport. (For some it is still a necessity).
Many new, ‘competitions’, (which mirror a Sport), have come about.

The statement: “…Why do gun rights activist argue against that?…”
A Very Old saying:
“They came for the Fully Auto Guns,
I didn’t have one, so I said nothing.
Then came for the Handguns,
I didn’t have one, so I said nothing.
Then came for the Rifles,
I didn’t have one, so I said nothing..
Then they came for the Semi, Pump DB, Shotguns
I didn’t have one, so I said nothing.
Then they came for the single shot, shotguns
I had one. BUT.
No one was left to speak for me”

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 14:13:18

Well my observation was geared in trying to find out what the criteria is to the gun control argument.
As yet, I have no one offering any reply, one way or the other.

In a sense the void of dialogue is leading to much misconceptions perhaps?

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Serowbot on 10/04/17 at 14:48:14

These mass shootings create terror...
The other things you mention do cause more deaths,.. but not terror.
People now, worry about flying, attending public functions, clubs, concerts, sporting events, even sending their kids to school, or shopping at the mall...
This is why the priority is terror...

Comparisons with other death stats are not relevant...
Where will society go if the people stop going out?...
We resist the fear,... but each incident compounds the potential for a paralysis of commerce...
Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are endangered...

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Trippah on 10/04/17 at 14:58:23

Gun control advocates have, after a decade of speaking what they think is the obvious, yet seeing no movement towards their goals, have learned to save their breath.

Guns are, and have always been, for killing. Shooting at targets is a sport that allows people to practice speed, accuracy etc without all the bloodshed. Yes, for some, perhaps many, the sport has replaced the original purpose. A lot of folks do not want to go hunting etc.

The argument, about restricting the types of weapons (firearms) allowed to the general public is, for gun advocates ,a matter of (again for some) the practical issue that a man (usually) can only kill a few with single load or small magazines before hopefully, someone kills the shooter. Semi auto and automatic 20+ mags allow the shooter to kill too many.
Pistols and "gangbangers" are an inner city tangential discussion.

Again, as whacko's with machetes have demonstrated lately, people bent on murder without any interest in surviving their attack will have some success. This doesn't weaken the logic re automatic/semi-automatic weapons, but does point out that humans will always act un-humanely.

I will not go into amendments, as guns lovers have swarmed to the NRA's totally inaccurate depiction. As cited in another thread was a well expressed statement by a Supreme. To carry the NRA's position to its logical extreme, citizens should be able to buy, arm and fly B-1 Bombers.

ps As I noted elsewhere, I was unpleasantly surprised last month how much my M-16 (civilian models) shooting accuracy has diminished. :-[

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 14:58:50

4751465B43565B40340 wrote:

Ok, I can understand your point, but I say it's unjustified fear.
Do the math, how many venture out and return home without being shot?

Fear can be unrational and falsely create a boogeyman.

Let's do the math.

Global Warming is fear based on possible outcomes too.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/17 at 15:02:35

67746C71746272150 wrote:

Ray, I had no idea what you were asking.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/17 at 15:28:51

I don't believe there is any one criteria, simply because there is no one single issue to fix.

The current issue is mass murder caused by bump stocks simulating full auto weapons and large clips. And maybe multiple weapons.

But the underlying issue is drug induced insanity

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Serowbot on 10/04/17 at 15:31:16

6A796E6F707D7B79722D1C0 wrote:

Ray, I had no idea what you were asking.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Serowbot on 10/04/17 at 15:51:35

6D7E6968777A7C7E752A1B0 wrote:

The current issue is mass murder caused by bump stocks simulating full auto weapons and large clips.

Ahh,.. but I get my nail clippers confiscated in federal buildings,.. and shoes off at airports,.. and only tiny bottles are allowed,.. etc..
All are knee jerk reactions to events that already occurred. Remember the "shoe" bomber?... thank god they didn't ban underwear after the "underwear" bomber...
..but,... a bump stock ban was proposed in 2009 I think... Shot down (pardon pun) before a vote..
So this one isn't quite a knee jerk... more a revisit...
I see no reason for bump stocks in civilian hands...
Full auto is spray and pray.... hardly appropriate for any private use... (always know what's behind your target)... (even a "militia" should be concerned about spraying bullets on American soil)...
Not appropriate...

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Eegore on 10/04/17 at 16:05:40

Bring in whatever evidence you want, the opposing view will bring in equal amounts.

I will be honest about it. I don't want my gun privileges removed because of someone else's actions even though those privileges in the wrong hands will end up with many more dead.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 16:26:17

You don't have gun privileges.
It's the Bill of Rights.
Not wants, not needs, not
Pretty Please Lord Government.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/04/17 at 17:08:09

7A6C7B667E6B667D090 wrote:

[quote author=6A796E6F707D7B79722D1C0 link=1507134390/0#6 date=1507154555]
Ray, I had no idea what you were asking.

I was gonna' say that... ;D

PS,.. Dawg,.. I know the fear is irrational,... most people probably do intellectually...
But, look at the Muslim travel ban... How many terrorist acts have been executed by immigrants from these banned countries...
9/11,.. 15 of the 19 were Saudis... Trump didn't seek to ban them...
Anyway... we fear lightening, spiders, mice, and flu shots...
No logic...
But if it affects our willingness to interact socially and spend economically... the terrorists are succeeding...
...and it will...
[/quote]

You say this gun issue is paramount because it strikes terror into people, yes?
Fear is then the motivation for any infringement upon people's freedoms, yes?
Some theories exsist that religion, a god, a need for one, was spawned out of fear, for many were terrorized by nature, etc...

You are saying this in essence.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Eegore on 10/04/17 at 18:18:37

I call tend to them privileges because thousands of people can not own or possess firearms in the US. 2nd Amendment or not if you are in a prison you don't have the "right" to bear arms. Domestic violence conviction = no firearms.

Same with the 4th Amendment, its in the Bill of Rights but I will often term it a privilege because it altered based off circumstance.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/17 at 18:35:13

That's a foundation for a long conversation and I understand your position.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/04/17 at 18:43:14

12011904011707600 wrote:

Well my observation was geared in trying to find out what the criteria is to the gun control argument. As yet, I have no one offering any reply, one way or the other. In a sense the void of dialogue is leading to much misconceptions perhaps?

“…As yet, I have no one offering any reply, one way or the other…”

Here is one P.O.V. on a ‘piece’.

Banning Hi Cap Mags:

Do this. Two Skilled People with firearms.
Each person has a 100 targets, (Person Shaped).
The 100 targets are set out, 20 to 100 yards away.
And 50 Yards wide. All varying distances.

Each, ’set’, of 100, is the same for both shooters.

Now, One shooter has a Semi-Auto, Hand gun.
Or a AR-15, Type Semi-Auto rifle.
(Described as a, ‘Assault Rifle’, cause it is, Black, By the un-knowing Media, and, ‘Gun Banners’. Yet it functions EXACTLY the same, as the First, ’Successful’ one made in 1905)
They have a 100 round clip. (Not possible in handgun, could be in rifle, but, 78% of the time, not totally reliable)
But for the sake of this is, ‘experiment’, lets say they have, and they work.
(Removes the pesky need to take out and insert, another 20-30-40 round one.)
That is one shot per pull and release of trigger.

The other shooter, has a, Single Shot, 12g Shotgun.
That is, A shot is fired, the gun is, ‘broke’, the hull removed, and a new shell is inserted and fired.

Who, will put a projectile, on all the targets, the fastest ?

The Single shot Shotgun, Shooting #4 Buck, (27 Pellets 2-2/3” 3” 35 Pellets, 3-1/2” 44 pellets)
Because each shot, they hit Many Multiple targets.
where the Semi-Auto, needs to put one projectile on each target.

(.223/5.65 Nato = projectile of .224 dia
one shot one projectile.
#4 Buck = projectile dia of .240)
one shot, 27 - 35 - 44, projectiles.

(Some may say, Oh but the .223 is going SO Much Faster.
Guess what, a hit in a vital area, dead is dead.
and a not vital area, the fast hard projectile will just pass through,
where the lead ball will, ‘dump’ all it’s, FPE, (Foot Pounds of Energy) in the target)

Gee, what did the, ’Tunnel Rats’, use ?

Thanks that the, DFI, Nut Case, shooters, do NOT, know firearms.

So their is one POV, of how, ‘Banning’, a capacity of a magazine/clip’s rounds.
it such a totally worthless idea.

A Person had a 12 round mag in his/her handgun,
and SAVED a Bunch of People,
and the, ‘law’, was 10 rounds.
That, ’person’, would be brought up on charges.

“… offering any reply, one way or the other….”

Here is another, (Shorter)
A, ‘Fully-Auto’, (Which was NOT USED IN VEGAS),
Have been totally relegated, since 1934.
and their has been what 2 or 3, people shooting them at other people ???????

And NO, one can NOT, have a, ‘Drop In Part’, to make any firearm a full-auto.
The firearm has to be extensively, machined.
(Totally Despite what some, ‘Hollywood’, shows depict, and the HRC’s Parrot)
The, ‘Other’ way. Oh Yea, just change some internal parts.

So someone, picks up one in a trunk of a car, on a dark back ally.
Yep, could/probably, does happen.
Oh, BTY, how is that, ‘War On Drugs’, going ?

(Their may be more, after I get my wood moved from the cut/split outside pile, to the the shed. So I can start on, Next years wood.)

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/04/17 at 18:53:16

4E6E6C64796E0B0 wrote:

I call tend to them privileges because thousands of people can not own or possess firearms in the US. 2nd Amendment or not if you are in a prison you don't have the "right" to bear arms. Domestic violence conviction = no firearms. Same with the 4th Amendment, its in the Bill of Rights but I will often term it a privilege because it altered based off circumstance.

It is a, “RIGHT’, Not a, ‘privilege’.

‘Rights’, can be taken away,
(*If you are a DFI, or do something to loose them)

‘Privileges’, are, Granted, by a governing power.

Saying owning a firearm is a, ‘privilege’,
just Plays into the hand, of a, ‘Government’,
who’s ‘goal’, is make you, ‘believe’,
a, ‘RIGHT”, is a, ‘privilege’.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Eegore on 10/05/17 at 19:51:33

It is a, “RIGHT’, Not a, ‘privilege’.

‘Rights’, can be taken away,
(*If you are a DFI, or do something to loose them)

‘Privileges’, are, Granted, by a governing power.

Saying owning a firearm is a, ‘privilege’,
just Plays into the hand, of a, ‘Government’,
who’s ‘goal’, is make you, ‘believe’,
a, ‘RIGHT”, is a, ‘privilege’.

While I don't believe a "Government" especially ours can effectively work together to change millions of people's definition of a term, I do believe your definition of Right vs. Privilege is more clear than mine.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/17 at 20:11:22

Can what is truly a Right even Be lost?

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by Eegore on 10/06/17 at 08:03:12

7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:

Can what is truly a Right even Be lost?

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/06/17 at 08:47:37

How about a law like this......

Schumer talked about a "universal" background check, yesterday.....fine.
But as I showed a report re: death, etc, booze kills way more folks, yet it was the democrat faithful who rode hard against sobriety checkpoints, why?

Anyway, lets do universal background checks.
If in that background check, you are found to have broken a law, any law, you will/may be subject to prosecution.

A real two birds with one stone ;D

If you are found out to be here illegally, you may be subject to deportation.

If you are ever caught with a "unregistered" gun, which would mean you are in possession of a gun, but DID NOT have the background check, done first, you are subject to criminal prosecution.....

This would be a WONDERFUL tool to use against gang bangers, drug dealers, etc.

What you think?

If you are a law abiding gun owner, well, if I am inconvenienced by having to drive through a sobriety checkpoint, knowing it might keep a person alive this night, I am willing to do that, soberly ;)

It will take the focus off an object, the gun, and on to the people, who use weapons wrongly.
Then maybe we can get some real needed repair into why folks hurt others.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by verslagen1 on 10/06/17 at 10:11:43

What is a "universal background check" vs. a regular background check?

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/06/17 at 10:48:02

6C7F6869767B7D7F742B1A0 wrote:

What is a "universal background check" vs. a regular background check?

I think it has to do with where a lady might hide her derringer....
Just a guess you understand ;D

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/17 at 11:26:59

48686A627F680D0 wrote:

[quote author=7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 link=1507134390/15#18 date=1507259482]Can what is truly a Right even Be lost?

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/06/17 at 17:47:32

6141434B5641240 wrote:

[quote author=7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 link=1507134390/15#18 date=1507259482]Can what is truly a Right even Be lost?

We have a right to life. Pursuit of happiness. I was once told by a serial pedophile that "An untouched blonde is the pursuit of happiness." I'm ok revoking that guys "right". From an incarceration view inmates have their rights "limited" but not "removed", for instance inmates can not carry firearms in prison but some can once they are released.[/quote]

JOG did a Excellent job on explaining the, ‘right to life’.

Not aware of any, ‘Right’, a, ‘ pedophile’, (serial or any other), has.

A, ‘incarcerated’, person. Only if very Minor cases, would have the, ‘Right’ restored after the time is served.
In the case of a, Felon, They cannot even walk into a Gun Store, after their time is severed.

“…I don’t believe a “Government” especially ours can effectively work together to change millions of people’s definition of a term…"

Is is NOT the, ‘Government’, that is to change the ‘perception’, of ‘Right/Privilege’.
(In fact, it is Contrary to what the Government, has been, DOING, for the last 20 + Years)

It is the, Citizens, to inform other Citizens,
Of what is a ‘Right’ , and what is a ‘Privilege’.

A Parent, Teacher, Siblings, Aunt/Uncle, Grand Parents, Cozens, person down the Street, etc, etc, etc.
You and ME !

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/06/17 at 18:02:52

46554D50554353340 wrote:

"... If you are a law abiding gun owner, well, if I am inconvenienced by having to drive through a sobriety checkpoint, knowing it might keep a person alive this night, I am willing to do that, soberly ..."

This I Disagree with,
Who was that, that said, very long ago:
(To Paraphrase)
"If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/17 at 18:05:38

+1

Next step
Get frisked at random

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/06/17 at 18:24:59

3E2D3A3B24292F2D2679480 wrote:

What is a "universal background check" vs. a regular background check?

I also wonder ?

I would think a, ‘Background’ check is a, ‘background’, check.

Like if your a Felon,
Committed a Crime of Violence,
Had a Restraining order issued against you,
Been Committed,
Determined Mentally Ill, or unstable.
Which the CURRENT, ‘Background Check’, IS !

The, term, ‘Universal’, and the terms, ‘Complete’, ‘A’, ‘Full’,
Are they a way, to, SCARE, someone, into, ‘Believing’,
what H.R.C., and the last POTUS, has Said. ???????

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/06/17 at 18:42:47

That is my whole point.....

If we need to check, let's check on EVERYTHING......

Or.....

Do you think they will try and dance around it with a targeted search.....

Which is.....

TOTALLY A WASTE of its intentions, keeping citizens safe.

Call them in their breach of privacy by making them extend its grand reasoning to ALL

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/17 at 19:36:45

Good intentions.
You're going the wrong way.
The requirements are fine, now.
So many places will get the
Grand Security of the airports now.
Adding to the costs, diminishing the experience. And the Dumbmasses will bleat their appreciation.
What happened won't happen again. Not like that. I have been expecting an attack on a sporting event for years..
It won't be long till normal people will be unable to enjoy going anywhere that is crowded. Security will be t intrusive.
Embrace fear, beg for security, live in the comfort of feeling safe, because you gave up freedom.

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by raydawg on 10/06/17 at 20:26:15

Jog, as with taxes, the left demogues with no solutions.
How many times have we heard it's only for the rich?

Give them the background check argument and like I said extend its reasoning to everything, ya know, so we are all safer.

Or,

Make them choke on their words.

Call their bluff!

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/07/17 at 18:32:15

Here is a Idea.
‘Background Check’
To Buy, ‘Golf Clubs’, A ’Screwdriver’, a ‘Hammer’,. Etc etc etc.

Wait, WAIT, Those items do not, KILL, as many People, as ‘Guns’ do.

OK, Then, “Background Check’, to get a Driver License, or to Buy a Car/Truck/MS.

(Awaiting the, ‘Justification’, of, ‘Why Not’,
From the ‘Fairy Dust Sprinklers’)

Title: Re: About guns........
Post by MnSpring on 10/07/17 at 18:50:45

More:
Need a, ‘Background Check’, before you can, Abort, a Baby.
Need a , ‘Background Check’, before you can go into a, ’simulator’, on how to fly a, ‘airplane’.
Need a ‘Background Check’, before, you become a, ’teacher’, ‘Lawyer’, ‘Judge’, ‘Doctor’, ’Social Worker’.
Need a, ‘Background Check’, before you run for, ANY, ‘Political Office’.
Need a, ‘Background Check’, before, you get a job at Any,’Credit Card Company’ or Any, place that, Takes, ‘Credit Cards’.
Need a, ‘Background Check, for, (Well you get the point, for, ANYTHING).