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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Did you know this..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1507579759 Message started by raydawg on 10/09/17 at 13:09:19 |
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Title: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/09/17 at 13:09:19 Only 4 percent of Africans kidnaped into slavery went to America. The bulk of them went to Arab nations, which some still practiced into the 1960's. A lot went to the Caribbean and Brazil. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by T And T Garage on 10/09/17 at 14:25:03 Is there a point you're trying to make? |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/09/17 at 14:59:56 342A252429342F32400 wrote:
Why you ask...... Surely not to challenge your own beliefs. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by WebsterMark on 10/09/17 at 15:12:18 63706875706676110 wrote:
That's surprising if true. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by MnSpring on 10/09/17 at 15:57:07 Well, ’Slavery’, Still, exists, today. Only in the USA, it is called: "Indentured Servants” or “I won’t call the INS”. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by pg on 10/09/17 at 16:21:27 4C7E79686F7E69567A69701B0 wrote:
That's surprising if true.[/quote] Quite a bit of it is true. Between 1502 and 1866, of the 11.2 million Africans, only 388,000 arrived in the United States, while the rest arrived in Latin America and the Caribbean[3] These slaves were brought as early as the 16th and 17th centuries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Latin_America The Arab trade of Zanj (Bantu) slaves in Southeast Africa is one of the oldest slave trades, predating the European transatlantic slave trade by 700 years.[3][8][33] Male slaves were often employed as servants, soldiers, or laborers by their owners, while female slaves, including those from Africa, were long traded to the Middle Eastern countries and kingdoms by Arab and Oriental traders as concubines and servants. Arab, African and Oriental traders were involved in the capture and transport of slaves northward across the Sahara desert and the Indian Ocean region into the Middle East, Persia and the Far East.[3][8] Some historians assert that as many as 17 million people were sold into slavery on the coast of the Indian Ocean, the Middle East, and North Africa, and approximately 5 million African slaves were bought by Muslim slave traders and taken from Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert between 1500 and 1900.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/17 at 19:28:10 Blacks owned slaves. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/09/17 at 21:33:38 405F595E43447545754D5F53182A0 wrote:
As a American Indian, I can tell you we took hostages after a successful raid on another tribe. The women were used in the same manner Bill Clinton used women.... The captured men were our slaves, doing labor, etc. But really, it's all the old white mans fault....anyway. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/17 at 22:38:35 I have paid reparations to everyone I injured by owning them. Well, except for Owning The local loony lefties. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/10/17 at 00:25:45 Well just to be clear, I, myself, did not partake on these raids, nor did I have a slave, or did I use my Willie on another tribes squaw, no.... You see, I wasn't born yet, and anyway, it's the old white Christian males fault anyway..... |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by T And T Garage on 10/10/17 at 05:33:40 3A29312C293F2F480 wrote:
Why you ask...... Surely not to challenge your own beliefs.[/quote] No ray - I knew that. Slave trade was a gigantic business and this country was just one of many.... But what is your point? |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/10/17 at 08:05:07 283639383528332E5C0 wrote:
Why you ask...... Surely not to challenge your own beliefs.[/quote] No ray - I knew that. Slave trade was a gigantic business and this country was just one of many.... But what is your point?[/quote] Yeah, only 4 percent of it, yet folks like to paint a picture that America was the greatest evil of this whole ugly scar on mankind. I guess we can thank the "stunt" mentality of those trying to prove a point by empowering themselves with identity politics.... Which I believe is fueling this anger and divide in our country. Why aren't those other nations reported on? Oh, because our politicians aren't running for office there, you say..... Do Black Lives Matter, only matter, here in the USA? |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by T And T Garage on 10/10/17 at 12:00:15 2F3C24393C2A3A5D0 wrote:
Why you ask...... Surely not to challenge your own beliefs.[/quote] No ray - I knew that. Slave trade was a gigantic business and this country was just one of many.... But what is your point?[/quote] Yeah, only 4 percent of it, yet folks like to paint a picture that America was the greatest evil of this whole ugly scar on mankind. That sounds like your white guilt showing... even though you're not white! ;D I guess we can thank the "stunt" mentality of those trying to prove a point by empowering themselves with identity politics.... Like how pence staged his walkout? Yeah. Which I believe is fueling this anger and divide in our country. Yes, it is. Why aren't those other nations reported on? Because we don't live there and... well... they are not the US... lol Oh, because our politicians aren't running for office there, you say..... Do Black Lives Matter, only matter, here in the USA? [/quote] Yes - if you knew what the BLM movement was, you wouldn't ask that question. Hey ray - next time, why not just defend atrocities in this country by saying something like "well, they do worse things in Cambodia...." or the like? Please, stop trying to point fingers at others for what clearly is our own fault. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by MShipley on 10/10/17 at 12:08:53 Why doesn't anyone every focus on the thousands of white people that died in order to end the atrocity of slavery. Surely they deserve more of our focus than the evil men that perpetrated slavery. In fact I would make a bet that more men gave their lives fighting against slavery that there were actual slave owners. Why are whites only remembered for those few slave owners and not the thousands that died to stop it? The whole issue seems to be a little lopsided. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by T And T Garage on 10/10/17 at 12:14:11 2E300B0A130F061A630 wrote:
It is indeed. We should all take comfort in the fact that we condemn slavery and have risen above it. We should regard our fellow man as equal - despite the color of his skin.... But some just can't/won't. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/10/17 at 12:21:51 Who joined the fight to protect the guy down the road from losing his slaves? If it was about slavery, seems only slave owners would have been fighting. And why did Lincoln say he would allow slavery IF he could and save the union? Seems like that Emancipation Proclamation would have been included in the first statements if slavery was The issue. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by WebsterMark on 10/10/17 at 12:55:55 Arguing the Civil War wasn't about slavery is like saying the husband who shot the guy in bed with his wife did it because he didn't like his sheets getting dirty. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/10/17 at 13:39:37 No. It's not. All you need to do is read history about the way D.C.was walking on the south. And question what we have been taught. The Reason we were involved in Nam was? A Lie. Iraq, WMDS, lie. Officially sanctioned lies. Explain why Lincoln said what he said. If YOU were going to embark on a war and The Central Point was slavery, Why would you Not start, in the declaration, with the Emancipation proclamation? And WHY would the son of a poor farmer go off to war unless HE HAD SLAVES? Would You? |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/10/17 at 13:53:37 273936373A273C21530 wrote:
Why you ask...... Surely not to challenge your own beliefs.[/quote] No ray - I knew that. Slave trade was a gigantic business and this country was just one of many.... But what is your point?[/quote] Yeah, only 4 percent of it, yet folks like to paint a picture that America was the greatest evil of this whole ugly scar on mankind. That sounds like your white guilt showing... even though you're not white! ;D I guess we can thank the "stunt" mentality of those trying to prove a point by empowering themselves with identity politics.... Like how pence staged his walkout? Yeah. Which I believe is fueling this anger and divide in our country. Yes, it is. Why aren't those other nations reported on? Because we don't live there and... well... they are not the US... lol Oh, because our politicians aren't running for office there, you say..... Do Black Lives Matter, only matter, here in the USA? [/quote] Yes - if you knew what the BLM movement was, you wouldn't ask that question. Hey ray - next time, why not just defend atrocities in this country by saying something like "well, they do worse things in Cambodia...." or the like? Please, stop trying to point fingers at others for what clearly is our own fault. [/quote] Oh, you mean like Bush did it, yeah, love the deflecting |
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Title: Re: Did you know this.....j Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/10/17 at 14:05:43 I can find a letter from Grant to the Tribune, but can't read it. As for the six percent figure who owned slaves, sounds low. The quotes I've seen . In August of 1852 Lincoln said "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it… what I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." Lincoln also said on September 18th, 1858, "I will say, then, that I am not, nor have I ever been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races." In 1861 Lincoln was asked "why not let the South go in peace?" He replied by saying "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" I have found no proof that Lincoln was a slave owner, but I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that he was not seeking to abolish slavery. General Grant made the comment that, "The sole object of this war is to restore the Union.” Should I be convinced it has any other object, or that the government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of the abolitionists, I pledge to you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side" in a letter to the Chicago Tribune 1862. Union General William T. Sherman said in 1864 "I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to my men to count Negros as equals. Let us capture Negros, of course, and use them to the best advantage." As I said before, these two men both owned slaves, and did not want to free them. I honestly do not see how so many "politically correct" people can stand there and say the "North was right." "Just as most Northerners did not fight to end slavery, most Southerners did not fight to preserve it," wrote James I. Robertson, Jr. Fighting for a 'Lost Cause' By Richard K. Kolb Reasons for risking life and limb varied, but they usually came down to four fundamentals: uphold state sovereignty, regional duty, group solidarity and protection of home and family. The notion that the average Confederate waged war to preserve slavery is a tenuous one at best. Only 6 percent of Southerners owned slaves, and 3 percent of those owned the majority. Recruits themselves referred to the war as "a rich man's war and a poor man's fight." |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by T And T Garage on 10/11/17 at 06:27:22 46554D50554353340 wrote:
No ray - bush was an idiot. He did a lot of stupid things. So did Obama. Now, so is tweety. This has nothing to do with them Going back to your original post - this is about slavery and the moot point you seem to want to push. Just because other countries did the same (or worse) than we did, doesn't make our atrocities any better. Put your dog whistle away. You really should look up "white guilt" and see how it applies to your perspective (and yeah, I know that you're a Native American - but if the shoe fits...) |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by WebsterMark on 10/11/17 at 08:34:42 The concept of an individual State was far more important back then. In fact, wasn't Robert E Lee asked to lead the North's forces but he said if Virginia left the Union, he was obliged to go with her or something like that. There is a certain percentage of the definition of state sovereignty that is a euphemism for legal slavery. What percentage seems to me would depend upon a person's moral objection and/or their economic dependency to slave labor. I think state's right and slavery are two sides of the same coin. But no matter, and this isn't an arguable point, without slavery, there would have been no war. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by Eegore on 10/11/17 at 09:24:29 Today's modern slavery is human trafficking and it goes on in our own neighborhoods. If you feel like doing something about this today so future generations aren't looking at us having similar discussions you can look into the following resources. Personally I'd start by forgetting about statues and letting your kids know that human trafficking happens and that it can happen to them. It can happen to their friends and we can help people. https://humantraffickinghotline.org/ https://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2017/ https://polarisproject.org/facts |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/11/17 at 10:02:59 1D3D3F372A3D580 wrote:
+1 But to a political operative your suggestion is like peeing in the ocean while swimming.... It gives you a temporary warmth. To use identity politics is a avenue to empowerment, well, it has been, but we are seeing it collapse right before our eyes... |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by WebsterMark on 10/11/17 at 10:22:42 identity politics is in the eye of the beholder. democrats use identity politics when they talk about their imagined war on woman or when the terrorist group BLM's uses it |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/11/17 at 10:50:47 1B292E3F38293E012D3E274C0 wrote:
Yep, just like TT's "white guilt" BS. It is used for only one reason, to pigeonhole folk, in this case, white folk. If you stand against it, they say that proves it. No, it just stupid to label folks by race, PERIOD....... |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by WebsterMark on 10/11/17 at 11:26:52 No, it just stupid to label folks by race, PERIOD....... I wouldn't agree with that, there are valid reasons. However, one of the best definitions of racism I've seen is 'to assign negative attributes to a person based solely upon skin color'. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by raydawg on 10/11/17 at 11:32:47 Valid reasons how? I am not talking cultural or medical, etc, but merely for separation, as in divide and conquer. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by Eegore on 10/11/17 at 11:52:37 I didn't post to a "political operative" I posted here, to you all. As I've indicated in other threads I try to be active in local legislation that changes things where I am. We have successfully recalled and removed from office individuals enacting laws against their constituency. My group is a dues paying organization with CCASA and actively works to change laws in my state: http://www.ccasa.org/colorado-sex-assault-and-stalking-victims-can-break-their-residential-leases-under-law-signed-by-hickenlooper/ Political Operatives or not, pissing in an ocean or not, typing here does little for the people in need today. Discussing the history of slavery in America does little for the people being sold tomorrow. Also having worked in a medical center for 11 years I can say knowing a person's race is very helpful in assessing a person's immediate and long term prognosis. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by T And T Garage on 10/11/17 at 13:13:37 31223A27223424430 wrote:
Yep, just like TT's "white guilt" BS. BS? LOL - thats rich! ;D Hey there pal - YOU'RE the one who began this post. Not me. Like I said - look up what it is. Oh, and while you're at it - actually find out what identity politics really is. You're throwing it around like it's some new buzzword and, as usual, are using it in the wrong context... ;D It is used for only one reason, to pigeonhole folk, in this case, white folk. If you stand against it, they say that proves it. No, it just stupid to label folks by race, PERIOD....... [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by WebsterMark on 10/11/17 at 13:40:11 30233B26233525420 wrote:
Well obviously for medical, historical. But for demographics. Certainly liberals have no problem separating by race if they're talking about unemployment, police abuse, housing discrimination and on and on. In fact, if we didn't separate by race, the democratic party would never win an election! Interesting thought, but I think we constantly put people in boxes. It's probably a defense mechanism. If you put someone into a box which your life's experience tells you they belong in, you interact with them in the manner that most suits or protects you until such time you move them out of that box or leave them in it because their actions confirm you were correct. My boxes are different than your boxes. If someone new walks in a room, I probably first sort by gender, then race if it's different than me, probably clothes/appearance, maybe size if it's a man, or if a woman and unusually large or small, what next?.... Maybe subconsciously I box them by body language. |
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Title: Re: Did you know this..... Post by pg on 10/11/17 at 15:37:52 445A555459445F42300 wrote:
I know how it applies to my perspective, complete and utter BS!! My ancestors had it just as bad if not worst than anyone during the 20th century. Best regards, |
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