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Message started by zipidachimp on 10/25/17 at 00:00:24

Title: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by zipidachimp on 10/25/17 at 00:00:24

Never mind the MX, read between the lines:

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/suzuki-end-mxgp-japan-motocoss-racing/#more-143737 8-)

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/25/17 at 05:07:17

That's not encouraging..

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/25/17 at 06:13:43

There are hard times ahead for motorcycle manufacturers. Companies like Harley Davidson who have not innovated their product for decades will become a fraction of who they are...if they are able to properly downsize (otherwise they'll just disappear). Even established brands who sell competitive products like Suzuki and Kawasaki, who consider BNG an improvement, are in for trouble.

The motorcycle industry has done a poor job at selling the value and fun of riding. Look at what Honda did in the 60's and 70's - and they were considered a novelty brand in the 60's. No one is aggressively marketing motorcycling for motorcycling sake.

The future belongs to companies like KTM, Zero, Yamaha and a bunch of smaller/nitche companies that have their ear to the market and take chances. These companies aren't afraid to innovate, create new market segments and deploy technology. Moreover, they market to a broad spectrum of riders - and non-riders.

I have owned a lot of motorcycles over the years. I don't know why, but over 50% have been Suzuki. But if they refuse to take chances and continue to turn-out boring products - then they'll pay the price.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ed L. on 10/25/17 at 06:30:52

Wonder if it is connected with the poor Suzuki auto sales they suffered over the last few years.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Dave on 10/25/17 at 07:28:40

It is a bit weird - but nobody is making a motorcycle right now that I would buy new at a dealer.....I also just don't have enough disposable income to justify buying a new bike when I can buy a very nice used bike at half price.

The Triumph Thruxton would be great - but it is out of my budget. The Honda CB500X with detachable luggage would most likely be the best "new" bike for me to consider if I wanted a dependable bike to just go riding and exploring on and not worry that much about what the bike looks like.
http://powersports.honda.com/2017/cb500x.aspx

I would buy a Suzuki 650 retro standard bike like the Tempter....they don't make it. (So I am starting to build one).

I would buy a mid sized (600 - 800cc) Sport Touring bike that is comfortable for double riding...they don't make it so I bought a used Honda NT700.

If I was much better off financially - I would consider buying a BMW R1200 RS.....but the huge amount of electronic stuff on it scares me. I might go looking for a low mileage R1100 RS that has carbs and can be worked on by an average mechanic....they are pretty cheap on the used market as they are 16 - 24 years old!

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by ohiomoto on 10/25/17 at 07:52:39

576C6176676B70766D656877040 wrote:

It is a bit weird - but nobody is making a motorcycle right now that I would buy new at a dealer...

I would buy a Suzuki 650 retro standard bike like the Tempter....they don't make it. (So I am starting to build one).

---------------------------------------------------

Exactly the same for me. I wanted a retro bike without the retro problems so I built one. I put 4k miles on it this summer and didn't have to do any maintenance beyond checking the oil level and air it the tires. (The little bit of exhaust work and carburetor tuning were more unfinished build items than anything else.) I could never do that with the old Triumph and GT500 I owned a while back.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by ohiomoto on 10/25/17 at 08:25:30

Keep in mind they are not cutting the US program where pretty much all the best racers in the world currently race. GP racing has almost turned into a feeder series for European riders to cut their teeth on at the pro level before coming to the use to race the Pro Motocross and Supercross series. (And there are a lot of really talented Euro riders right now.)

The Japanese series has traditionally been a testing series ever since the AMA implemented it's production rule back in 1986. After that, the one off "works" and pre-production bikes were "raced" in Japan buy test riders. Over the years, one off "works" bikes gone by the wayside and Japan is mostly just production bikes and early production models.

I think OEMs feel they can test without racing and then just release a new model and work with it. KTM has even been releasing mid year production models to get new tech into the hands of their racers early. This gives them some racing experience that they can then apply to the next model year without being forced to switch the whole team to the new bikes.

The OEM's have other options theses days, but it still sucks that the industry is depressed.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Dave on 10/25/17 at 10:53:47

If you have $25,000+ to spend....Honda has a new GoldWing!
https://powersports.honda.com/2018/gold-wing.aspx

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by piedmontbuckeye on 10/26/17 at 06:58:02

I agree 100% with Dave above. I want a standard retro "fun" bike. There is not one new bike on the market that I would buy or can afford. I came from the BMW world where I owned 3 "Airheads," a '68 R50, a '74 R90, and a '78 R100 (over 38 years old). I rebuilt the first one completely. The second I updated and did some mechanical work, and the last I did lots of upgrading. All three, to me now, are too big and heavy for me so I wanted to do the best I could with a smaller, lighter bike. I am 68 and LOVE to just ride (since I was 14). I no longer do an interstate slab, but lots of back roads, mountain riding.

So...I purchased this used S40 (2011) and it is OK, but I was dismayed at the poor handling, and the obvious poor designing of some critical areas. But, it is what it is, and when I ride it, I do really enjoy it.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by LANCER on 10/26/17 at 07:20:19

2F363A3B3230312B3D2A3C343A263A5F0 wrote:

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/26/17 at 07:26:37

4A535F5E5755544E584F59515F435F3A0 wrote:
I agree 100% with Dave above. I want a standard retro "fun" bike. There is not one new bike on the market that I would buy or can afford. I came from the BMW world where I owned 3 "Airheads," a '68 R50, a '74 R90, and a '78 R100 (over 38 years old). I rebuilt the first one completely. The second I updated and did some mechanical work, and the last I did lots of upgrading. All three, to me now, are too big and heavy for me so I wanted to do the best I could with a smaller, lighter bike. I am 68 and LOVE to just ride (since I was 14). I no longer do an interstate slab, but lots of back roads, mountain riding.

So...I purchased this used S40 (2011) and it is OK, but I was dismayed at the poor handling, and the obvious poor designing of some critical areas. But, it is what it is, and when I ride it, I do really enjoy it.

Your prays have been answered. This bike has my full attention:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2017/10/2018-kawasaki-z900rs-debuts-at-tokyo-motor-show-with-video/

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by LANCER on 10/26/17 at 08:24:28

Very nice looking bike.
I like it.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by T And T Garage on 10/26/17 at 09:03:06

02393423323E252338303D22510 wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well put Dave. I feel the same way.

At the risk of getting run out on a rail :) - have you (or anyone else here) ever considered/tested Royal Enfield?

I know - they're from India and the first few years they had bum engine cases, but I saw them at a (non-trade) show and I gotta say, I was kind of impressed. Especially with the sub $6000 price tags.

They have an interesting, sort of retro look to them too.

I never got a chance to ride one - so if anyone here has, lemme know what you thought.

Anyhoo - just throwing that out there.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by piedmontbuckeye on 10/26/17 at 09:03:14

Fortunately, there are some things that can be done to correct those deficiencies.
Brakes; front & rear suspension; foot control/peg location; seat comfort if desired, and tire selection of course.
Those go a long way toward making it handle better.
[/quote]

The trouble with that is, even with all that upgrading you will still not have a great handling bike, not even a good handling bike, and the design upgrades will only be slightly better than original. All of that upgrading is costly, and the S40 has a problem maintaining any sort of value, and certainly one with the added expenses will not bring back any good return on investment. Trust me, that the way in the BMW world. Added costs only will return on a bona-fide collector's item.

The S40 is no collector's item!

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 10/26/17 at 09:03:19

I'm not much for 4 cylinder bikes and you all know I'm about shapes & lines and that is one freakin bueatiful bike ! Maybe some in Japan is hearing our call for more standards/retro. 8-)

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by ohiomoto on 10/26/17 at 09:08:33

I like it too. Don't love it, but like it. Reminds me of a GR650 in some ways. I think they could do a little better job with the midsection/subframe, but I do LOVE that the see a market for this type of bike.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Dave on 10/26/17 at 11:08:44

The Honda CB1100 is a nice retro bike...so is the Triumph Bonneville.
They are just a bit too big and too expensive for me.

The Royal Enfield bike looks great, is a bit quirky for long term reliability, it not very quick, and it is a bit vibratory when compared to the Savage....I prefer the Savage engine (maybe I should find somebody with a broken Royal Enfield and put in a Savage engine).

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by batman on 10/26/17 at 12:38:04

I'm not that thrilled with the 900 kaw, it looks like they grafted a 900 front end to a ninja rear. The seating and pegs for the passenger sure look that way, and I hate that gap between the tire and fender ,looks like you could stuff a basket ball in there! What is that silver "bread box " under the trans ,I'm thinking cat. converter in the exhaust but it hangs down under the bike looking like an after thought.The only thing I see is that it would make a great café bike ,the driver pegs are back far enough , but you'd need to "can " the seat and weld on a loop ,but getting rid of that rear fender wouldn't bother me as it was ugly on the Z-1 and the look hasn't gotten any better.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 10/26/17 at 12:39:40

A Savage Enfield

I like it

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by T And T Garage on 10/27/17 at 09:12:33

79424F5849455E58434B46592A0 wrote:

Yes!!

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by batman on 10/27/17 at 14:48:34

The cb1100 missed the boat by being to heavy and only 85 hp , the 10,000 dollar price was a bit high for what you got ,lack luster performance. An old cb750 would serve just as well.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 10/27/17 at 16:42:03

It may be heavy but they feel light when you sit on one , a well balanced bike. 85 h/p is nothing to sneeze at , it turns a low 12 in the 1/4 mile and will squirt you down the road at 140 mph and 10K for a bike ain't too bad of a deal.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by SALB on 10/30/17 at 10:05:29

I could live with these changes........ ::)

https://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/suzuki-on-the-verge-of-releasing-new-turbocharged-motorcycles?roi=echo3-47608729040-44846920-9cc05f1ff337b627be71233692f57ae3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=promo_products&utm_source=Sun_102917_BBNews&utm_content=suzuki_turbocharged_motorcycles

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by LANCER on 10/30/17 at 11:15:23

3A393A2E38303E5B0 wrote:

Mmmmmm... Turbo Savage :D 8-)

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 10/30/17 at 12:14:48

No
It would have to be fuel injected/turbo charged SAVAGE !!! 8-)

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by MMRanch on 10/30/17 at 18:08:20

Lancer , you could make us a Turbo-charger air intake . Did we have turbo chargers before fuel injection ?

How about "Ram Air"

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 10/30/17 at 18:58:04

If it was already fuel injected I would have already put a turbo on it. Doing a carbureted blow thru turbo presents all kinds of problems that I wouldn't want to tackle. The stock compression ratio would be perfect with port job and stage three cam. But it would need a rev limiter. Think they are torquey now , it would feel the same till boost kicks in and away you go.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by batman on 10/30/17 at 22:04:44

There were turbo bikes back in the 80's ,where are they now? they're parts bikes in the back of someone's barn! If you need a turbo to go fast, you'd be better off just buying a bigger bike. If turbo's become the "thing" it's OK with me ,there will be a lot of used(almost fast) bikes for sale cheap.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by jcstokes on 10/31/17 at 03:16:25

Someone who used to post here did turbo charge a Savage, but it wasn't an easy exercise.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Dave on 10/31/17 at 04:08:57

5059494E55515F493A0 wrote:

Someone who used to post here did turbo charge a Savage, but it wasn't an easy exercise.

Nope - it was supercharged.

It is relatively easy to get a bit more HP on the Savage with a cam, Wiseco piston, and some intake and exhaust changes - it is far more complicated to get power with a turbo or supercharger. Fuel injected engines can adapt to mixture and timing issues - the Savage engine cannot.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by ohiomoto on 10/31/17 at 05:22:41

Turbo charged Savages?

I had a friend who got his first Harley in 94. He got a Fatboy and put 22k miles on it in the first year he owned it. He had a saddlebags and backpacks all over it. Added a windshield. Rode it from Ohio to FL and I forget where else.

Anyway, he needed a battery and went into his local dealer. The owner who was Amish or probably Mennonite says to him in his "Amish" accent, "You know Mr. Buttonworth (not his real name), you ride this thing like it's a touring bike. Why don't you get yourself a touring bike?"

My friend didn't get a battery that day. He got a 95 Ultra Classic and has owned several since.

There's a lesson in there somewhere. :)

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Mike Franklin on 10/31/17 at 09:51:19

It's a more complicated world and bikes are getting more complicated, too. For me part of the fun of the sport is being able to maintain, fix and modify my ride with a few hand tools. That's one of the reasons I was attracted to my S40. It isn't terribly fast, it just handles OK, it has a couple of downright quirks, but it's an honest old thumper that gets me down the road while having a lot of fun, and if something goes wrong I can usually put it right. I wouldn't dare mess with most of the sport bikes, dual sports, or even cruisers on the market now.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Dave on 11/01/17 at 03:30:48

This could be a fun bike......if Yamaha decides to build it.
It might be easy to restyle it into a Cafe' if a dual sport isn't what you want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI1TWCSYNvU
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI1TWCSYNvU[/media]

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 11/01/17 at 03:58:13

They will build it but not sell it here !

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 11/01/17 at 05:56:25

754E4354454952544F474A55260 wrote:
This could be a fun bike......if Yamaha decides to build it

That bike looks to be 100% win. That means we will never see it.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Tocsik on 11/01/17 at 12:03:12

Apparently, Suzuki is releasing an Intruder 150 in India.
Hard to find any good pics but this may be it.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Ruttly on 11/01/17 at 19:39:21

I just want that tank for my tracker !

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by badwolf on 11/03/17 at 20:47:59

I saw the picture of the new ''150'' and thought it was going to be a monster 150 CI !
Nooooo, it is 150 CC!

https://www.motoroids.com/news/new-suzuki-intruder-150-details-images-features-expected-launch-date-and-prices/

That tank is scaled to the bike, 11 L. About the same as a S40's.
The bike is shot at a angle to make it look good, BUT riding on it you would look like a nerd on a over styled moped!!

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by snels516 on 11/04/17 at 05:33:12

Looks like no changes for the S40?

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by Dave on 11/04/17 at 06:05:12

MPescatori says the bike is no longer being sold in the EU.......2018 may be the last year for our beloved Savage.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/17 at 08:32:02

That's a shame. Suzuki could do some changes and make a popular bike that doesn't have the little gremlins. The engine and drive system are rock solid.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by zipidachimp on 11/04/17 at 12:54:21

Why not EFI, a trip od and another 20 years? 8-)

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/17 at 15:15:59

Reasonable to Us.

Title: Re: Changes coming to Suzuki !
Post by JLC on 11/06/17 at 08:11:10

I think Suzuki would have to do a little more than just EFI. Probably a cat in the exhaust, and hopefully roller cams so we could more easily find suitable engine oil.

I was surprised to read that the S40 was just pulled out of the market in Italy. I don't think the S40 has been able to meet emission controls in France , Germany, Sweden and other countries in Europe for several years.

Traveling in Spain and France in 2015 and 2017 during the summer, I don't recall seeing a Savage/S40 on the street. In Paris, that would have most likely been a post 1999 Savage/S40, as bikes made that year or before are banned from the town during the week.