SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Getting hard to dialogue....., /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1514055543 Message started by raydawg on 12/23/17 at 10:59:03

Title: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/23/17 at 10:59:03 Seems as a society we are coming to a point where perhaps we will be forced to talk about issues without having to label folks for the asking. Example, a Christian asking about Gayness, a white conservative asking about affirmative action, etc. The divide and conquer seems to have revealed its own bias, or self promotion, over educating.... Now that how men and women view sex differently. No way do I think Al Franken intended to hurt anyone, it was all prank, a very common practice for a comedian. But it seems a scorch earth mentality is alive and well, as it have been played religiously with political correctness, but perhaps, hopefully, it will now be revealed as the shame it is and we can allow honest dialogue to begin....

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by MnSpring on 12/23/17 at 12:00:12 intended to hurt anyone, That is so, ‘wide’.   Say I am reading the front of a Woman's ’T’ shirt, which has a  manifesto, of their thoughts on , ’Sexual  something’.      I am looking at their chest. Is it to Read, what is written ? Is it to Look at their boobs ?          What is the, 'intent' ?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/23/17 at 12:27:56 I guess you could ask if a low cut top/blouse is meant to invite a glance, or just to cool the milk  ;D This is what prompts the question, looking, versus gawking, or what? WE NEED DIALOGUE  ;)

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Trippah on 12/23/17 at 12:53:35 Or see through tops? ;)

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/23/17 at 13:07:21 50766D7474656C040 wrote: Or see through tops? ;) Exactly..... If we look, we are screwed, if we ignore, they feel rejected? Bikini’s..... If I look, my wife cracks my head  >:( We jest, but if you are a high profile person????

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/27/17 at 05:35:05  I would say the "If we ignore they feel rejected" perception is extremely rare.  I've never heard a woman complain about it, there's always another guy literally seconds away that will look.  If someone dresses for attention and "feels" rejected its nobodies responsibility but their own.  I have no obligation to help anyone feel better about their clothing choices.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/27/17 at 10:05:18 I wonder if you could extend your reasoning about rejection, and their feelings, etc, into public policies too? Do you understand the question?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/27/17 at 11:36:31 If we look, we are screwed, if we ignore, they feel rejected? Bikini’s.....  Are you asking how men choosing to not look at girls in bikinis fit into public policy?  I don't have a way to implement that.  My point was that I do not know of any women that "feel rejected" when a person does not look at them based off of their clothing choices.  Its extremely rare by my accounts and when it does happen its usually with adolescents.    "Feeling" rejected is not commonplace enough for it to be taken into account.  I say if someone thinks looking at someone elses body could be offensive at that time, then don't.  Do not feel you should look so they don't feel rejected from your opinion of what is attractive.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/27/17 at 12:12:18 The bikini is just an example. Is making ANY policy based on offending others justified? Example, how does displaying a confederate flag, or a nativity scene, offend?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/27/17 at 12:28:22  I think in regard to clothing and personal observations of people the basic sexual harassment guidelines have been fine.  Compliments are ok, sexual  advances aren't.  Looking is ok, blatant staring is not.  As for flags and nativity scenes areas with Homeowners Associations that one agrees to when buying/building in that area should abide by the agreements.    Flags other than state, national, armed services, Coast Guard and Red Cross (only when servicing) should not be displayed on public property.  nativity scenes, due to separation of church and state should not be displayed on public property.  Private property is fine as long as it does not violate public decency regulations, like nativity scenes with nudity/sex in them, or flags that say "Fu ck Jews" should not be displayed.  I don't judge this based off of whos offended, but off of local and national laws.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/27/17 at 13:00:23 Thank you for replying, but would you not say the basis for these HOA, etc, policies are to NOT offend? To me that seems the foundation of the complaint..... A complaint, then a motion, then a decision to implement policies.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/27/17 at 14:23:48 Must everyone behave so as to not offend anyone? Where is their responsibility to deal with the harsh realities of life? If you're Offended by the idea that you must go to work, go to the store, pay bills and cook, who must protect you from that? No, someone Offended By my clothes can look away. The constant pressure to change for others is getting really, really, OLD. People need to STFU and leave others alone.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/27/17 at 18:41:40  My experience with HOA's are not based off of who's offended as much as a vested interest in maintaining property value by requiring consistency in architectural and landscaping methods.  It could be true that some HOA somewhere is more interested in not offending people, I just haven't seen one that has a Basis prioritized on that over investment in the property itself.  People can complain all day about what I do on my private property, none of the laws in my area apply to things that offend.  I can fly flags, and display nativity scenes if I want.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/27/17 at 18:57:26 I agree with your understanding of the purpose of the hoa. But when they come down on someone for what is clearly temporary, because someone else is butthurt over a Jesus plaque in a manger, that is bullshit.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/27/17 at 21:25:47 5D4244435E5968586850424E05370 wrote: I agree with your understanding of the purpose of the hoa. But when they come down on someone for what is clearly temporary, because someone else is butthurt over a Jesus plaque in a manger, that is bullshit. We got a winner here! That is exactly right, how can a nativity scene, etc, displayed during appropriate times subtract from the value of the HOA, well maybe if they are Black, or........

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/28/17 at 07:52:52  When you sign an HOA agreement and it indicates you can not display religious material in view of the public, then you have agreed to not do that.  Same for landscaping, paint colors, and signage.  "Butthurt" isn't a reason an HOA can provide consequence to a display.    The Jesus display you are referring to is about the signage, which is clearly indicated prior to home ownership.  Don't agree if you plan on putting signs in your front yard, even if it says Jesus, Muhammad, or Nancy.  Don't sign agreements you don't plan on following.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/28/17 at 10:57:44 Let's inspect the spirit of the law. The letter of the law becomes tyrannical. Why, again, was the rule Made? Why would anyone complain about a name written in lights? Is every word a sign? Really? I thought signs carried messages Eat at Joe's. Beware of dog. But Jesus name in lights? Get real.. And again Being not a Vote for Ralph Or Advertising Or something permanent SINCE THE OBJECT OF the hoa is to preserve and protect the values, And since the Christmas decoration in question is very temporary and CAN'T AFFECT THE VALUES of adjoining properties, butthurt tyrants are the only people who have a problem. Screw THAT. It's a Christmas decoration. Get over it.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/28/17 at 11:02:04 6040424A5740250 wrote:  When you sign an HOA agreement and it indicates you can not display religious material in view of the public, then you have agreed to not do that.  Same for landscaping, paint colors, and signage.  "Butthurt" isn't a reason an HOA can provide consequence to a display.    The Jesus display you are referring to is about the signage, which is clearly indicated prior to home ownership.  Don't agree if you plan on putting signs in your front yard, even if it says Jesus, Muhammad, or Nancy.  Don't sign agreements you don't plan on following. Not sure anyone here is disagreeing with that. You agree to a contract, or sworn statement, you need to adhere to it. Like a mayor of governor who swears to uphold the laws, but decided after the fact they are not fair, etc, and decided not to apply them. I am not sure if you understand my question or just want to avoid answering it. Are any of these laws, regulations, implemented because some are offended and they want to make policies to make others adhere to their beliefs, ideas, etc? It really is a yes, or no, answer.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/28/17 at 11:08:51 We obviously think differently. The Letter of and Spirit of the law,I  consider both. If I'm in the Left Turn Lane I don't have a turn signal on. Because the Law is written so that OTHERS can predict what I am about to do. My intentions are made clear By my location. No signal required. Since the law is to protect values and since the Christmas decorations are so temporary , they can't affect the values, so, leave people alone. They are not Hurting anyone. Suggest you study libertarian theory.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/28/17 at 18:45:40 "I am not sure if you understand my question or just want to avoid answering it. Are any of these laws, regulations, implemented because some are offended and they want to make policies to make others adhere to their beliefs, ideas, etc? It really is a yes, or no, answer."  No.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/28/17 at 19:23:38 Ok, thanks.... That is straight out. You have stated previously that it’s your property and you will do with it as you please, or sumtin like that in this thread. You own a duplex, you live in one, rent the other, who decides the criteria you use to rent it out?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/28/17 at 20:06:05 133331392433560 wrote: "I am not sure if you understand my question or just want to avoid answering it. Are any of these laws, regulations, implemented because some are offended and they want to make policies to make others adhere to their beliefs, ideas, etc? It really is a yes, or no, answer."  No. Ridiculous, stifling enforcement because someone complained. Bullshit , as if Jesus spelled out in lights for a coupla weeks would impact property values. Authoritarian jackasses, The REGULATIONS are designed to protect property values. The needless enforcement was over a butthurt jackasses.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/29/17 at 05:30:20 "The REGULATIONS are designed to protect property values. The needless enforcement was over a butthurt jackasses."  This I agree with.  If I didn't sign an HOA I would refuse to remove the signage/display.  If I agreed to not do this, I would think its petty, but I would remove the sign because its in the HOA.  I would then actually attend HOA meetings and attempt to get a clause allowing temporary holiday signage.  I'd take part in change and not post social media complaints that will get me nowhere.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Eegore on 12/29/17 at 05:37:03 "You own a duplex, you live in one, rent the other, who decides the criteria you use to rent it out?"  There are laws in place stating certain criteria if one is renting property.  They vary from state to state but most of them to my knowledge deal with contract verbiage, smoke/CO-2 detectors, eviction practices, safety deposits/refunds etc.  Who I would rent to is up to me however certain discrimination rules apply especially if one is receiving funding for low income housing etc.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/29/17 at 08:30:50 Who I would rent to is up to me however certain discrimination rules apply Then its not wholly up to you. Who would you not rent too?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by buster6315 on 12/29/17 at 08:36:49 In renting a property I believe some important considerations are: Rental history, employment history, background check & most important credit rating.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by Trippah on 12/29/17 at 08:42:06 Who would I not rent to - people without money. ;D

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/17 at 09:07:51 6646444C5146230 wrote: "The REGULATIONS are designed to protect property values. The needless enforcement was over a butthurt jackasses."  This I agree with.  If I didn't sign an HOA I would refuse to remove the signage/display.  If I agreed to not do this, I would think its petty, but I would remove the sign because its in the HOA.  I would then actually attend HOA meetings and attempt to get a clause allowing temporary holiday signage.  I'd take part in change and not post social media complaints that will get me nowhere. Years ago we were looking at a property in a nice community before I had heard about the hoa. I was almost ready to buy when someone said something about it and I walked out. I would not live there. So, I don't go to meetings. I don't care what They do. I do care about how people Think. I try to get people to consider what is really happening inside their heads and hearts when they take a side. The needless authoritarian position, determined to see the little guy punished, is all too common. REGULATIONS are designed to protect property values. The needless enforcement was over a butthurt jackasses." This I agree with.  If I Finally, after I said it enough times. My position never changed. Just how I said it. It's in every one of the posts. @@@@@@@ Hold on a minnitt.. Doing a reread..saw your post indicates you can not display religious material in view of the public, then you have agreed to not do that.  Same for landscaping, paint colors, and signage I didn't see that. I saw signs, and religious material went right by me. Where was that? How can a manger even Be there if religious stuff is out?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/29/17 at 09:19:04 2E393F38293E7A7F7D794C0 wrote: In renting a property I believe some important considerations are: Rental history, employment history, background check & most important credit rating. I kid you not, in Seattle that is considered not fair. I am not up to snuff on all the criteria, but to use the "past" to judge is considered discriminatory. They are presently pushing a "the first to apply" gets it. Here is a link/article:  https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-primer-on-seattles-new-first-come-first-served-renters-law/

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/17 at 11:00:52 It IS discrimination. It's NOT PREJUDICIAL discrimination. Insanity.. just Frikken insanity

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by buster6315 on 12/29/17 at 11:19:15 My understanding is that if you set the bar at the same height for all prospects, you should avoid any discrimination problems.  But in this day and age........          If a prospect does not pay their bills, what chance do you have of them to paying their rent?

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/29/17 at 11:55:12 To be honest, I don't agree with the credit report being so important. People who get in trouble with finances and don't pay some things may well pay the rent. Most people know that not paying the MasterCard won't get you evicted. As long as they don't have a history of destruction, and eviction, more than one eviction, I'd be likely to give them a chance. But I tend to be too trusting.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by raydawg on 12/29/17 at 13:52:09 3B2C2A2D3C2B6F6A686C590 wrote: My understanding is that if you set the bar at the same height for all prospects, you should avoid any discrimination problems.  But in this day and age........          If a prospect does not pay their bills, what chance do you have of them to paying their rent? Buster...... you sound White. Bubba.......sorry, the rental is taken.

Title: Re: Getting hard to dialogue....., Post by MnSpring on 12/29/17 at 16:16:07 22312934312737500 wrote: [quote author=2E393F38293E7A7F7D794C0 link=1514055543/15#25 date=1514565409]In renting a property I believe some important considerations are: Rental history, employment history, background check & most important credit rating. I kid you not, in Seattle that is considered not fair. I am not up to snuff on all the criteria, but to use the "past" to judge is considered discriminatory. They are presently pushing a "the first to apply" gets it. Here is a link/article:  https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/a-primer-on-seattles-new-first-come-first-served-renters-law/ [/quote] “…Before accepting a prospective renter’s application materials, a landlord will need to provide the renter with information on the landlord’s minimum screening criteria…” Not a problem.  Just be clear enough in the, ’screening’. But  the, REAL  Reason the Snowflake, Fairy Dust Sprinklers are wanting to do this,  Is  NOT,  to ‘help those poor people’.  (Which they, ’think’, other  Snowflake, Fairy Dust Sprinklers believe) The, REAL  Reason is: “ … it will need to add two staffers to handle work related to the first-come, first-served policy — to the tune of more than $200,000 next year…”.

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