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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Those Lucky Rich People! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1516252348 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/18 at 21:12:28 |
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Title: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/18 at 21:12:28 The average person gets Screwed while the rich and corporations get the breaks. acility and add 20,000 employees over the next five years. Apple’s new plans include $350 billion in U.S. investments. Apple bringing ~$250 billion in overseas cash back to US, paying $38 billion in repatriation tax, investing $30 billion in domestic CapEx and creating 20,000 new American jobs thanks to tax reform. https://t.co/r4rgTNFLiY — Anthony Scaramucci (@Scaramucci) January 17, 2 Aaand Another company brings money home, pays buttloads of taxes, and hands out cash and builds facilities and hires people. Uh Huh, it's just the results of the foundation Obama built. The tax cuts didn't do anything. Ohhh No |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/18/18 at 06:24:10 jog - this is capitalism at work. The companies, for over 8 years, allowed the US to wallow in a economic slowdown rather than invest the billions they held overseas, waiting for a change in the tax scheme. The new tax code saves them billions, oh yes, we should bow down and be greatful. You always look for conspiracies - try looking at the United Corporations of America, our country's real name. This is the significance of the Supreme Court 's ruling that corporations can "speak" like humans in donating millions to campaigns. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/18 at 09:34:55 You should flesh that out. Go ahead and type some. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/18/18 at 14:21:37 Well, I think you were saying how wonderfully corporate America was responding to the new tax codes. If Trump says that 20 billion for the wall is chump change, Apple's 38 billion is just a little bit more than chump change. And , this is only a guess, but it is a lot less than their tax burden was when the money moved overseas. This is simply an open air bribe. They could have helped americans by investing 5 years ago but waited. Oh wait, they were slowing service on older to phones to prompt people into investing in new phones. I am beginning to suspect the Apple in their name is more Bibilical than any of us realized way beck when. As an aside, I have always though coperate taxes need to be competitive otherwise businesses will travel where taxes are lower. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/18 at 14:39:46 Not all chump change is created equal. First, understand that Apple isn't alone in repatriation cash , building plants, creating jobs and benefiting people Other Than the rich whom the left said would be the beneficiaries of the tax change. Second, monies spent that protect American jobs and reduce the burdens on our social safety nets pay dividends, and create a more prosperous society for us. I remember Obama mocking Trump, saying You're gonna bring jobs back? How you gonna do that? You gotta magic wand? No. He has an understanding of what businesses need to be able to function, provide jobs and prosper. The take away is Taxing the people who provide employment to the point of destroying their ability to do those things will cause them to move to where they can. Trump made it economically feasible for them to come back. Now, for the people who have been arguing against the cuts, when will you see you were wrong? Did you support Bamicare? Nafta? What's it going to take to get you to see how wrong it was? We destroyed Mexico's agricultural community and bankrupted their farmers by forcing them to accept our agricultural products creating poverty and causing many to Need to move here. It was never about A Level playing field. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/18/18 at 15:22:03 JOG Bamicare is less expensive than what we had before, and will have again. Big Pharma won this round. NAFTA was part of the internationalists plan, championed by Clinton (The President). While we used it to spread our agricultural products, it came at the cost of auto infrastructure (auto parts manufacturing and distribution, etc). The only way we as a nation prosper is a prosperity with a more even distribution of the wealth, which is what this is always about. Trump stands with the billionaires, not with Americans. And they don't really care you know, so long as we continue to help them accrue money/wealth and thus power. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/18 at 15:49:08 42647F6666777E160 wrote:
Even rich corporations need customers. Henry Ford paid his people enough to buy a Ford. He also said If the people understood the financial system there would be revolution |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/19/18 at 13:28:47 JOG - I will leave this at this: wait until you have paid your taxes, State & Federal, AND your healthcare expenses for the year and THEN we will compare costs. (I add State because in many states, they will add the burden for the programs shunted by the feds..and yes, this might not be a fair comparison, we'll kook at it both ways). Trumps tax plan is for the very wealthy (often people with the last name Trump) especially the estate tax which allows people born to wealth to keep it while people who earn their income are taxed. and yes, I wish I were wealthy so I could give it to my children, but alas. :'( :'( :'( |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/19/18 at 14:04:07 The estate tax is something the very rich Want. It's what forces the sale of family fortunes Before they are able to cross the threshold that puts them in the Elite wealth category. How many people were uninsured that caused people to support, Demand, Bamicare? How many people are currently actually uninsured And how many are Effectively uninsured because of high deductibles and the ever increasing copay? I'm disabled and in Texas. Medicare and no state income tax. I got a raise. I brought home less money |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/19/18 at 14:36:17 JOG - better check the water there in your part of Texas..the "estate tax is something the very rich want"????? I don't think so. The Affordable care act brought a smidgen of health services to the poor and almost poor; but it shafted the next step up, the working poor with unaffordable copays and deductibles. as to your specific situation, no state income tax is due, I think but not sure, to the massive amounts of money paid by the oil industry. or perhaps you are saying you as an individual do not pay any state income tax as your income source is non-taxable status. and yes, my SS went of 1 penny more in this years' COLA than the increase for my medicare insurance. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/19/18 at 14:50:05 I've checked the water.. And I have done a lot of reading And I have a wealthy friend who I run ideas by, we talk about stuff, and the estate tax is destructive to building a family legacy. The really rich people have foundations and IRS approved ways to protect the wealth. The estate tax is just a way to appease the envious and protect the Elite from upstart competition. Our lives aren't improved by forcing the sale of the business a family has built. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by raydawg on 01/19/18 at 14:56:03 Estate tax is death tax..... If not, please explain how? Would make more sense to have birth tax, wouldn't it? |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/19/18 at 15:29:35 Yes JOG - and the estate tax functionality is based on reducing or eliminating those legalized methods of avoiding paying the tax when it was in force. Yes Rawdawg, it is a DEATH Tax, so big deal. Is there a birth tax? Not yet. But there are heavy expenses we as a society acknowledge within the realm of rearing children. There are very few expenses lying in a pine box feeding the little critters. So name calling .."death tax", is simple BS. The fundamental question is simple..should we penalize (by taxation) those who work and try to live the "American Dream" but not tax the lucky who are born to inordinately wealthy families making this not the land of opportunity for all by the oligarchy of the wealthy a la Europe and the US of the Newport (RI) era. Note: we already tax at a much lower rate (money) profits from legalized gambling known as the stock market which YES, funds the companies efforts to grow and expand (which is why we give them this write off) thru the individual investors reduced tax burden. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/19/18 at 15:31:35 And if you look closely at the tax packet, you perhaps noticed the tax write off for "donations." Does anyone know if it is capped? |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by raydawg on 01/19/18 at 16:19:18 Trippah..... You read me wrong, I say tax the SOB while they are still alive ;D Look, neither you or I will just succumb to the tax policies DC crooks impose on everyone but them, without trying to hang on to what we can.... Not that many are charitable. Tithing instructions by Jesus are manifested in teaching believers to actions of giving, instead of doing it for a tax write off. Rich people consume more costly stuff, and this is where I think we can create a equitable tax system.... Everyone spends according to their ability, so the percentage would be equal, but taxes collected, greater as you get to enjoy your lifestyle wealth brings. As with the current system, you would need to help those on the bottom, if their lack of creates shortfalls on basic life necessities, booze, tobacco, etc, are not needs ;) |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/19/18 at 16:44:03 Consumption taxes on the people who spend everything they bring in just to stay afloat Versus Consumption taxes on people who make millions.. Let me think... NO.. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by raydawg on 01/19/18 at 16:48:51 Yeah.....keep it as it is, working great ;D |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/19/18 at 19:54:32 Remember that argument that was used to support Bamicare? Doing what is logically unsupportable because what Is isn't Doing what YOU want doesn't make it smart. Things JUST got changed. Positive results are being seen Already. So let's jump into something that absolutely Will screw the little guy. Who can afford consumption taxes? The guy who spends everything he earns just covering the bills? Or the wall street guy? Defend it, Ray. This is the third time you've said this. Let's hash it out. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by raydawg on 01/19/18 at 20:38:12 You won’t like my answer :D Ain’t no system that will be fair/perfect for everyone. You are playing to the same game as the libs with identity politics, the poor and unable will be unjustly hurt, targeted, etc. Well guess what, they ain’t fairing to well now. I agree if you look at the Reagan tax policies is created growth and led to revenue increases, but spending increased as well. I think with a consumer based tax policy it would eventually lower the price of goods, services, as that is the nature of a competitive market. Look at “free healthcare” for the poor, it’s increased all prices throughout the market because it stifled competition. Also, taxes would be gathered from visitors as well as illegal immigrants, and those working under the table, etc. With less opportunity to hide your money, I believe it will rack in more overall. It would also expose those on the dole, as they have to consume, even if it just puts ill begotten money back into the government. Those who really are in dire need, and honestly need help, programs will be needed to assist them, but we can do that with much better accountability I believe. It still allows for capitalism to power folks to a higher standard of living, maybe even more so, as transparency will be more visible. No deductions or deductible or write offs, period. That is the hole that all the loops retreat into. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by Trippah on 01/20/18 at 06:16:11 Most states have a sales tax. A consumption tax for the feds would just add to the pain; however, if you exclude foods (not meals) that might help. Used to be a luxury tax on furs, jewelry, Jaguars. Europe used the Value Added Tax, which I think is a complex yet interesting thing. Just as businesses fled the frozen North for the mini taxed South, we need to look at the world and how taxes affect business competitiveness. We produce food which the world needs, that's good. Much of what we are now selling around the world is based on Brain Power, computing etc. Medical Technologies....and the occasional Fix Or Repair Daily. ;D Oh, and bain of the Sales tax, it is the bartering system folks use to avoid it. |
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Title: Re: Those Lucky Rich People! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/20/18 at 07:50:36 are playing to the same game as the libs with identity politics, the poor and unable will be unjustly hurt, targeted, etc. I wasn't playing games when I pointed out what a disaster Bamicare was gonna be. Not playing games now. It's pretty obvious that the people who have no savings and investments spend everything they make just to stay afloat. People who have money for a yacht don't. The way you describe your idea will screw the poor. Exempt necessities and expenditures up to a certain value and you create a system that isn't horrible, maybe.. But if you tax BUYING products, you inhibit SALES, which damages business, costing jobs. Applying logic is not a game. And what exactly isn't working about the tax code today? We don't know, it's changed.. But you've been pushing this idea for a while. What are you seeing that you think this idea would make better and for whom? You said It's working so well now, |
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