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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> See something, say something, get ignored /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1519448436 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 02/23/18 at 21:00:36 |
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Title: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/23/18 at 21:00:36 http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/23/full-transcript-tipster-warns-fbi-parkland-shooter-is-going-to-explode/ |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/23/18 at 21:58:15 And more https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/23/florida-school-shooting-sheriff-got-18-calls-cruzs-violence-threats-guns/366165002/ |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Matchless G11 on 02/24/18 at 03:46:00 Sadly What else is new? Reminds me of the scene in Tora Tora Tora. Nevile Brand, "Sir I think we need to check this out." Commander, "No we need confirmation." Nevile Brand, "Umm Sir, I really think we need to check this out" Commander, "No we need confirmation." Later when the battle is in progress. Commander, "Whats going on?!!!" Nevile Brand, "Confirmation Sir! Thars your confirmation!!! " |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 05:29:06 That certainly did clarify the issue, Feb. 5, 2016: A Broward Sheriff’s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns. The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson, a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. [ch9642] Sept. 23, 2016: A “peer counselor” reports to Peterson that Cruz had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt, was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun. A mental health counselor advises against involuntary committing Cruz. The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment. [ch9642] Sept. 28, 2016: An investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules Cruz is stable, despite “fresh cuts” on his arms. His mother, Lynda Cruz, says in the past he wrote “hate signs” on his book bag and had recently talked of buying firearms. [ch9642] Sept. 24, 2017: A YouTube user named “nikolas cruz” posts a comment stating he wants to become a “professional school shooter.” The comment is reported to the FBI in Mississippi, which fails to make the connection to Cruz in South Florida. [ch9642] Nov. 1, 2017: Katherine Blaine, Lynda Cruz’s cousin, calls BSO to report that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and asks that police recover them. A “close family friend” agrees to take the firearms, according to BSO. [ch9642] Nov. 29, 2017: The Palm Beach County family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. A member of the family says Cruz had threatened to “get his gun and come back” and that he has “put the gun to others’ heads in the past.” The family does not want him arrested once he calms down. [ch9642] Nov. 30, 2017: A caller from Massachusetts calls BSO to report that Cruz is collecting guns and knives and could be a “school shooter in the making.” A BSO deputy advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff. [ch9642] Jan. 5, 2018: A caller to the FBI’s tip line reports that Cruz has “a desire to kill people” and could potentially conduct a school shooting. The information is never passed on to the FBI’s office in Miami. [ch9642] Feb. 14, 2018: Nikolas Cruz attacks Stoneman Douglas High. Peterson, the school’s resource officer, draws his gun outside the building where Cruz is shooting students and staff. He does not enter. I think plenty of Confirmation Existed before he killed. The FBI was warned, cops had seen plenty And yet, It's Guns Why isn't it a Massive Law enforcement failure? Why aren't people demanding that the Authorities be held Responsible for the clear and obvious Failures? The focus on the Gun is so intense that the obvious is being ignored. Instead of If he hadn't been able to get a gun He couldn't have killed, Why isn't it If Just One person had acted on the information available He wouldn't have been able to kill.??? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by MnSpring on 02/24/18 at 08:50:05 JOG, good Post. But haven’t you been reading the, Troll ? 332D22232E332835470 wrote:
So most certainly, you are NOT, ‘listening to reason’. How dare you repeat, FACTS. ! Everyone KNOWS, it’s the NRA’s Fault. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Eegore on 02/24/18 at 09:04:52 Was there any legal grounds to hold him in any sort of confinement or take his personal property? From what I've read nobody pressed charges, and no psychologist or physician ordered a mental health evaluation. They should have, but didn't therefore making committing him or taking his property against his rights until he actually commits a crime. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by MnSpring on 02/24/18 at 09:21:51 5C7C7E766B7C190 wrote:
Perhaps read, Post #2 again ? Their is a great difference, between, (say), a Spouse, telling lies about a husband, just to get them in trouble. And this Florida case. In the, 'spouse', case telling lies just to, "committing him or taking his property", in that case, most agencies hearing that would say: 'Sour Grapes". And, your above would be very, 'reasonable'. In the Florida case, I believe, Information, coming from several different sources, at different times, would require a, "..."Umm Sir, I really think we need to check this out"...". |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Serowbot on 02/24/18 at 09:23:31 1535373F2235500 wrote:
Pub's think they'll arrest him for thought crime... |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/24/18 at 09:26:30 Pub's think they'll arrest him for thought crime... You mean like hate crimes? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 10:58:57 Seriously? You can get pissed off at the nra and pretend their dollars run D.C., and here are statements made by people to the FBI, who , BY THE WAY, Admit that they FAILED, and you pretend I'm just looking at Brown vapors and calling it substantial. Really,people, pay attention. He posted THREATS. He wanted to be a professional school shooter And Had a Way less than sterling history. But let's ban guns, That's what is going on here. Lefties are so focused on the Gun, they Will Not See how this event Should have been stopped in the weeks prior to it. The FBI FAILED, and They Admit it. Why can't you? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/24/18 at 11:17:00 Jog, here is facts; https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/five-states-allow-guns-to-be-seized-before-someone-can-commit-violence/2018/02/16/78ee4cc8-128c-11e8-9570-29c9830535e5_story.html But I believe it’s folly to believe you can get an honest exchange of dialogue here buddy. Expecting to have those who just copy and paste talking points, and drive-by sniping, is like trying to have sex with your clothes on ;D Notice which party is pushing these laws even further.... Maybe they want to retract their snide, I doubt it ;) |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 11:54:40 I've used up my monthly allowance of free articles . The FBI FAILED . They admit it. When threats are made, action needs to be taken. He had his guns taken by a relative, at one time. He was mollycoddled, instead of being held responsible for the outbursts. The FBI was told, at least twice, he was a dangerous guy. If See something Say something Can't be acted on Why bother? If the government says The police will act. But they won't Then WHOSE JOB IS IT to protect You? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Serowbot on 02/24/18 at 12:06:44 3B28302D283E2E490 wrote:
Hate crimes are crimes where the motivation punished... Thought crimes are motivations where no crime has occurred. You don't see the difference?... :-/ |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 12:12:17 His violent outbursts Coupled with the I want to be a professional school shooter online statement The FBI ADMITTED they screwed up And I feel alone in my position This event Should have been Kept from happening. Maybe it's because so many people believe the Great Government is Never to blame for a disaster. It's GOTTA Be The GUN! |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/24/18 at 13:04:10 5C4A5D40584D405B2F0 wrote:
Hate crimes are crimes where the motivation punished... Thought crimes are motivations where no crime has occurred. You don't see the difference?... :-/[/quote] Hate crimes punishment is more severe because they portend to know the thought of the perpetrator. So, in effect, it’s being charged with an additional crime, based on thought. If I am wrong, how so? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Matchless G11 on 02/24/18 at 13:19:46 Unless you are starving and having to steal a loaf of bread to feed self. Aren't all crimes "hate crimes" ? :-/ |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 13:49:16 No |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/24/18 at 14:12:40 4A555354494E7F4F7F47555912200 wrote:
Here: . (The Washington Post) In the wake of massacres similar to Wednesday’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla., a small number of states have passed “red flag laws” that allow the seizure of guns before people can commit acts of violence. California, Washington, Oregon, Indiana and Connecticut have statutes that can be used to temporarily take guns away from people a judge deems a threat to themselves or others. Lawmakers in 18 other states — including Florida — plus the District of Columbia have proposed similar measures. At the federal level, Rep. Salud Carbajal (D-Calif.) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) introduced legislation last May that would encourage states to adopt the approach. Mental illness, escalating threats, substance abuse and domestic violence are among the circumstances in which a judge can order weapon restrictions under the statutes. Just part of the article, but you can taste the flavor ;D |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by MnSpring on 02/24/18 at 14:32:47 "... statutes that can be used to temporarily take guns away from people a judge deems a threat to themselves or others..." Good Idea, but Watch the ULTRA-Liberals, SWING the Pendulum, To FAR, AGAIN ! And Feinstein, (and the like), will ABUSE that law. To, 'Punish', people that, speak out against them. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 14:55:14 Almost makes See something Say something A joke.. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 14:59:48 Yet, nothing explains why the school district set up a plan to get the reporting and police response to Illegal Behavior changed, Except for the fact that By decreasing the arrests and reports of criminal activity In the schools, the schools were rewarded by the feds. It's true, it's reported, I've linked to it. I think it's obvious now that there was no Failure by Broward leo community. They were following the New Rules. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 17:45:07 The FBI owns this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fbi-tipster-warned-nikolas-cruz-start-shooting-places-article-1.3838211 Others should have had him committed. And the woman who so generously took him in? The one who didn't file chargers after her son had to forcibly put him out of the house? Filed papers to take power over his $800,000.00 inheritance. May she sleep well.. Not |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 17:45:40 But Gun |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Eegore on 02/24/18 at 18:17:30 So nobody has a reference for "legal" grounds to take his property or commit him involuntarily to an institution or treatment center. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 18:52:26 There was an opportunity for domestic violence charge and a shrink declined to call him less than stable, regardless of the fresh self inflicted cuts and the suicide post. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Eegore on 02/24/18 at 21:58:35 5B444245585F6E5E6E56444803310 wrote:
Agreed, but since no charges were pressed and no psychologist or physician filed an M-1 hold there were no legal grounds for law enforcement to do anything. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/24/18 at 22:17:44 19393B332E395C0 wrote:
Agreed, but since no charges were pressed and no psychologist or physician filed an M-1 hold there were no legal grounds for law enforcement to do anything. [/quote] Then this is where we need to focus our attention, these gaps..... All the signs were there, yet, we couldn't protect the public, until we knew for certain the status of the person? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/24/18 at 22:50:18 Posted Suicidal desire Shows up for evaluation with cuts, self inflicted Said I want to be a professional school shooter Isis cheerleader The school system adopted a policy of Ignoring criminal behavior in order to make the school system Appear to be a safe and disciplined environment For Federal Dollars. It's in the stuff I posted. Just because they DIDN'T take the guns and lock this murderer up doesn't mean they didn't have a legal way to do it. The F.B.I ADMITTED they screwed w. The Coward county cops Screwed up too But THEY were operating under the See something Don't DO anything Policy IT'S in the stuff I posted. Or, there is so much out there I read it and didn't post it. I think it's here. Check A system designed to fail I posted it there I think. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/24/18 at 23:21:17 I read a article about the simplistic rationale behind those who used the “gun free zone” as a political statement..... It was very well written, and documented. In one sense, we are putting people at risk, to what, score some kind of make believe victory, over the fact you believe yourself superior, than these wild west mentality cowboys? Why do the Hollywood stars have armed bodyguards? Shouldn’t those who preach the use of gun free zones, be a gun free zone themself? Anyway, it made a link/connection, to how the libs use others, like minorities, or natural disasters, etc, as a prop, a vehicle, to further empower themselves, as their main objective. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by MnSpring on 02/25/18 at 09:49:37 0121232B3621440 wrote:
Be VERY Careful Eegore, A Troll, may call you a, ‘Knuckle Dragging, Stupid, Ignorant, Moran Nazi, Fascist, and even, (GASP), ‘Bat $hit Crazy’ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/25/18 at 10:30:58 I believe there was ample legal room for taking action. That it wasn't doesn't prove there wasn't. Especially considering the Policy of ignoring criminal behavior in order to improve their statistics and gain federal dollars. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Eegore on 02/26/18 at 08:20:59 I missed the criminal behavior part that supplied ample cause for incarceration or involuntary psychiatric placement. Can someone point me to that action? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/26/18 at 09:38:48 26352D30352333540 wrote:
Hate crimes are crimes where the motivation punished... Thought crimes are motivations where no crime has occurred. You don't see the difference?... :-/[/quote] Hate crimes punishment is more severe because they portend to know the thought of the perpetrator. So, in effect, it’s being charged with an additional crime, based on thought. If I am wrong, how so? [/quote] Since Bot declines to answer, can anybody else point out why to me why my thinking, that “hate crime/legislation” is law based on perceived “thought”, using it, thought, as intent. How can one prove, beyond the shadow of doubt, a person acted accordingly based on what you think, they thought, because the victim meets certain criteria to be protected beyond the normal scope of a exsisting law? Anybody? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/18 at 11:11:25 The standard is Reasonable doubt Not Shadow |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by raydawg on 02/26/18 at 13:19:56 5B444245585F6E5E6E56444803310 wrote:
Tomato.....Tomatoe :-* |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/18 at 13:36:26 0121232B3621440 wrote:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201684874.html |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Eegore on 02/26/18 at 20:11:32 I read that article. What part of it allows law enforcement to incarcerate him, or place him into psychiatric care? Nobody pressed charges - is it legal in FL to incarcerate someone for domestic dispute without anyone pressing charges? No physician or psychologist ordered an M-1 psych hold, can a medical center in FL detain an individual who is not being treated? |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/26/18 at 20:58:54 The F.B.I. admitted they screwed up. The cops didn't do anything. The guy posted things that should have been enough. He was evaluated by a shrink WHILE SPORTING FRESH CUTS After suicide talk. You're RIGHT. Nobody did anything. And you are deeply in the circular logic of Well, since nobody did anything They Must not have had a legal way to do it. All While The school system policy of Ignoring criminal behavior To get more dollars Is acknowledged. Yeah, you're right. Nobody did anything And the F.B.I. admitted they FAILED |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by Eegore on 02/27/18 at 16:02:11 My point is that they didn't have a legal way to incarcerate him without violating his rights. We can complain, or cite some examples of more restrictive legal reform that would allow incarceration or at a minimum forced psychiatric care if we think a crime might happen instead of after. Those specifics can't come about if we ignore that there wasn't a legal way to get this guy off the streets. |
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Title: Re: See something, say something, get ignored Post by MnSpring on 02/27/18 at 16:42:36 4060626A7760050 wrote:
That’s a ’Slippery Slope’. Say it is, a law. T&T, and I are walking down the street, he doesn’t like the hat I am wearing, because it is not the same as his. So he flags down a Policeman, and tells him, I am Crazy. Policeman believes him, and I am hauled off. Really Ripe for Abuse ! Now a, teacher, tells a Policeman, “so and so, threatened to shoot up the school’ Policeman believes the teacher , and hauls off the student. Saving, other students/teachers Lives. One is good, one is not. But before a, ’new’ law is created. One must examine the Old law. JOG was Perfect, in his assessment of: ‘Because, nothing was done. it does Not mean, something could not have been’ If, the people, listening to the, ‘charges’, Wanted to, ‘charge’, they would have found something. Yet it appears, that, No charges were ever asked, simply because, the school, wanted a cleaner record, to receive more money. |
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