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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Is it time? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1520099787 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/18 at 09:56:27 |
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Title: Is it time? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/18 at 09:56:27 Is America ready to overturn the Gun Free Zone at our schools? Yes? No? Why not? |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/03/18 at 10:14:25 No..... From having been indoctrinated by our Madison Avenue propaganda, if we say something, see something, hear something, enough, it becomes truth. It becomes a need. It become reality. It is merely symbolism, but we assign it as having the value to change us, or sustain us. It is extremely hard to change a core belief. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/03/18 at 10:33:27 Those signs haven't Always been there. And difficult as it may be to change a belief, when that belief has been Demonstrated a failure over and over, then realistic minds change. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/03/18 at 11:06:13 Jog, it has been said there is nothing new under the sun.... Well, we know it technology terms that is not true, however, in psychological terms, that is right. Man’s needs and motivation has never changed, other than to get a little more sophisticated in his attempt to get his needs met. Men are born with a need, a deficit, and as we grow, we try different means to achieve that need, and to satisfy it, externally. I suggest to you that the answer lies within each one of us already. Our quest is co-opted by others, for their own gain.... But their attempt is merely like trying to grasp the wind and hold it within your grip. Upon birth, why do babies smile and laugh? A nature response, to what? What is it in this uncorrupted mind that finds joy and happiness within its extremely unsophisticated mind? That riddle is what prompts me to believe we already possess what we need to know to be happy and content. All this external stuff is just matter, it can not give us anything that we are not willing to give ourselves. The victimization and blame, just like drinking and drugging, or any other vice that diverts our attention away from looking within to see who we really are..,. Dang, what was the question? ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Serowbot on 03/03/18 at 12:52:25 706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:
If that were true, we would get rid of guns like Australia did... No mass shootings there... Japan No mass shootings there... England No mass shootings there... America is one 20th of the world, and we have more than half of all mass shootings. It's proven time and time again... Your belief that guns will fix the gun problem is unrealistic. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/03/18 at 13:41:49 Jog, and another example, thought..... Has smoke/tobacco free bars stopped folks from using a killing substance? Have they shown wisdom in deciding to quit, saving countless of dollars in healthcare, and the safety of others? Yet, how long have these LAWS been on the books now? Forest Gump was right ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by MnSpring on 03/03/18 at 13:50:30 3D2B3C21392C213A4E0 wrote:
Your Belief, that the Removal of Firearms, in the USA, Will STOP, Violence and Murder, is, ‘… unrealistic….” The USA is NOT, the UK or Australia, there has Never been, (and Never will be) the likes of the 1, 2, 4th Amendment. Would suggest, if some people think the USA, is such a, ‘$HIT HOLE’, It would be better to MOVE to a Country. Where you have no Freedom. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by JOEL2014 on 03/03/18 at 14:33:27 How about a compromise. If there is so much hoopla about teachers being armed with guns, maybe consider tasers. Train them in it's use and let them carry them. They would have a fighting chance against an aggressor, no danger of crossfire injuries, should be no legal issues with it either. Just something to think about. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Trippah on 03/03/18 at 19:31:16 MnSpring's response" Move if you don't like it" is the stereotypical response of the mindless NRA robots...semi automatic weapons in the hands of a small number of gun nuts will not arm an uprising against the US military and its government. Nor will it protect you from the government should they decide to run over you. What is does do is allow quick and easy access to weapons that kill for almost any whacko (whose mum thinks learning to shoot will help jr with his issues..or Daddy has little dickie stand next to him while he opens the gun safe ((Jr wouldn't steal the combo!!). The little whacko's are usually bright enough and cunning (been trying to pass as normal) compared to parents who really are on a different planet (occupied by grownups who are trying to amass wealth, power etc). Do you think little shooter won't, If he thinks killing fellow students is the way to fame, glory or death, figure out he can shoot up a school bus, track and field event, etc etc. Will YOU pay for an armored personnel carrier to transport children to school?? So lets get realistic for a moment. (1) If we can id whackos can we get the government to put them somewhere where they wont hurt others??The past 30 years has been a Republican Party led discontinuance of institutions (they cost too much) abetted by the Democrats (how inhuman to wharehouse the poor misunderstood whackeretts) (2) perhaps then we should reduce the easy access to weapons of speedy killing. If whacko comes in with a knife, chances are the 4-6 minute police response time might end the bloodshed with only a few stabbed, not 14 or 55 or 200. ;) |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Trippah on 03/04/18 at 07:30:29 an interesting take, which I read this am in the Syracuse (NY)paper by Noah Shusterman who is a history dude in Hong Kong Univ argues the second amendment was adopted out of fear of a standing federal army and what that does (historically) to the citizen's rights. He also indicates our gun rights laws are part of our historical white supremacist program, and I suspect he might be right (of course I argued this many moons ago in this forum so I am prejudiced.) ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/04/18 at 08:26:36 77514A5353424B230 wrote:
I think it takes an obvious, and runs with it under a new context..... Just like the Civil War Confederate Statutes, etc.... The nation was crafted by "white" men, for that was the norm, historically at the time. You try and pull things out of context, just like with numbers, you can make then deliver any result you want/desire. Its lazy journalistic pandering without any ability to be proven. I think its high time we strive for facts, goodness, Ray Bradbury seems more a non fiction author than what we see today passing as historians ;D |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/04/18 at 08:53:09 4F594E534B5E53483C0 wrote:
If that were true, we would get rid of guns like Australia did... No mass shootings there... Japan No mass shootings there... England No mass shootings there... America is one 20th of the world, and we have more than half of all mass shootings. It's proven time and time again... Your belief that guns will fix the gun problem is unrealistic.[/quote] I don't understand that. Armed guards protect precious things everywhere. Armored trucks, people, banks, and some schools. How does it make sense to Remove the protection from our children at school? Why, through legislation, would we Disarm Teachers? I've Explained why they should be armed. Apparently, in Ohio, the teachers agree. But you Don't Explain Why it won't work. Is that because armed people are used to protect everything of value? And if More Guns Isn't the answer, then I guess you wouldn't call cops and Add Guns to the situation if bad guys show up at your house. Correct.? |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Serowbot on 03/04/18 at 09:29:51 392620273A3D0C3C0C34262A61530 wrote:
Let's look at it reasonably. An armed teacher against an armed mass murderer. 50/50 odds at the very most optimistic. a- the murderer likely has an assault rifle and 100's of rounds b- he's likely suicidal c- he may be wearing armour d- the teacher will be caught off guard, the shooter is fully prepared and focused e- most teachers will have minimal training and little enthusiasm for guns f- even police and military don't like going in "mano a mano" with killers g- there will be accidents... and and deaths... to go along with that, there will be outrage, lawsuits, headlines, and protests. I have a decent amount of gun experience, at least more than the average school teacher, and I wouldn't feel super confident going up against a suicidal nutjob with an Ar15. (Especially with a pistol I've had locked away in a drawer for 6 months) Would you?... Armchair heroes, like Trump, are not in the real world. Facing a barrage of bullets is... |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/04/18 at 10:29:20 Armchair heroes, like Trump, are not in the real world. Facing a barrage of bullets is... Fair enuff, then admit a sign announcing a gun free zone has about the same effect as Trump. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Trippah on 03/04/18 at 11:36:44 Do you think a sign saying "gun Free Zone" has any impact on the whacko's mind? Almost all of the school shootings, the shooter has had a connection - mom taught there, the girl who dumped me was there etc. When the shooter is older and wiser..it seems to get less directly connected, e.g. The lack of a "Gun Free Zone" sign undoubtedly had great impact on the Las Vegas shooter - not the fact there would be police all around the area AND possibly the attraction of a large crowd (as this was apparently not a personal grudge but simply insanity thing). None of the more guns arguments have any merit as far as I can see. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Trippah on 03/04/18 at 11:39:45 JOEL - would you run at a shooter armed with a AR-15 or AK-47 spitting out a steady stream of bullets armed with a taser - gee can I get close enough before a bunch of bullets hit me? If you would, you are much braver than me; I ducked and went for cover every time someone shot at me. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Serowbot on 03/04/18 at 12:15:28 796A726F6A7C6C0B0 wrote:
Gun Free Zone signs aren't there for criminals.... (neither are traffic lights, or no littering signs) They are there to prevent law abiding gun toters from entering places where accidental discharges could do great harm or a curious child might touch them. They are also there so that a legal carry citizen won't be mistaken for a "shooter"... Many people just aren't comfortable with them being around... and I know, "It's their right",... but it's also their right not to go to theses places. Police don't want to enter a school where there are 15 people running around the halls with guns... creating confusion in the search for the real shooter. They see a gun, you're going down. You're in a Gun Free Zone... Guns just don't belong around children in public places. For anybody that thinks guns are protected by the Constitution,... your "well regulated militia" duties aren't needed in a school or crowded public place. There ain't gonna' be a sinister government overthrow happening there, or an attack by invaders, or whatever you think. So your right isn't protected there... |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/04/18 at 13:13:25 Without responding in detail, point by point, I will just offer my final thought. I think the gun free zone is more symbolic than it is as a deterrent, or a tool for law enforcement, or those uncomfortable with the fact others carry. Life has no guarantees, nor should it, as that would reduce society to such a captiviness, it might resemble a prison, instead of a freedom. On the same vein of reasoning, I would also suggest the right to bear arms as assurances against a tyrantical government, is symbolic as well. To believe in this day and age a “coup” standing against our formed democracy, based on the arming of limited firepower, is silly.... Therefore the only thing it really represents is a symbolic gesture. Also, so many other implements of destruction exsist nowadays, biological attacks having much more damaging capacity than a rapid firing gun powered driven tool. If we as a society believe gun control is a fix to our ills, that too is mistaken. I would venture to suggest our real threat come from the lack of respect, and understanding, of what it means to grant freedom of speech, as a right, unfettered, to all. You constrain or abridge that, then expect, rightly so, fallout. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by Serowbot on 03/04/18 at 13:19:32 34273F22273121460 wrote:
I agree... The question then is,... are all these deaths worth it. How many is too many to die for a symbolic gesture?... |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by raydawg on 03/04/18 at 14:01:28 No, of course not. But keep in mind, and this is crucial to beginning to debate such a challenge to the constitution..... The foundation upon which it rest, can not be readily dismissed. What it “represents” is more than a “instrument”. We must always stand guard against a “power” overseeing its own welfare. I think history is chalk full of examples, and death counted in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. We must keep that fact as manifest, and find a solution that can accomplish that, without compromising it. That is why I believe using emotions to generate interest, is a bad way to go about finding a solution..... Not to even mention how politicians try to use it to their own benefit, capitalizing on the misfortunes of others. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by MnSpring on 03/05/18 at 13:07:56 7A6C7B667E6B667D090 wrote:
“… most teachers will have minimal training and little enthusiasm for guns…” Wonder what a, ’Snowflake Fairy Dust Sprinkler would say, if someone else said: Most Gay Males could not get out of a wet paper bag. Most Lesbian Females, are overweight, do not shave, (and are like Pat in SNL) (Which as JOG said, “It’s okay to do … as long as lefties approve”) Perhaps, ‘more than average’, teachers, in a very urban setting, would have little enthusiasm for guns. Yet, ‘Most’ teachers, in a Rural setting, would have, a high level of enthusiasm for guns. “… teacher will be caught off guard…” Is that like one person driving a MC, Slams into the side of a car that pulled out. And another person did Not ? Could it have something to do with; one is aware of his/her surroundings, and one is not? Giving a ‘reason’, that, ‘Guns’ are Bad, and certain ones should be banned, (because of a, completely, prejudicial, attitude, that a ’teacher’, can not do something) Is NOT, a real Reason. “…a pistol I’ve had locked away in a drawer for 6 months…” Well I am guessing, you have NO Locks on your front door. And a Sign in your front yard, saying: “Gun in this house, is LOCKED up” Suggestion, Publish, your address. Then, ANYBODY, at Anytime, can come and do, Anything. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by MnSpring on 03/05/18 at 13:27:51 07213A2323323B530 wrote:
When someone is CONSTANTLY, PI$$ING and MOANING, About how this Nation is so bad, Because of, Health Care/Guns/Poverty/Gay Rights/etc/etc/etc. And another Nation is SO MUCH BETTER. It is, NOT, “…the mindless NRA robots…” It is, ME, stating my Opinion. Which simply is, “Get on the Bus, or stand in the street and CRY” As to the rest. My opinion is, Mindless Ultra-Liberal Robots, parroting what they are told to say. With No, thinking it out. Just KEEP, Pushing the Pendulum as FAR Left as you can. |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/18 at 13:28:02 6274637E66737E65110 wrote:
Gun Free Zone signs aren't there for criminals.... (neither are traffic lights, or no littering signs) They are there to prevent law abiding gun toters from entering places where accidental discharges could do great harm or a curious child might touch them. They are also there so that a legal carry citizen won't be mistaken for a "shooter"... Many people just aren't comfortable with them being around... and I know, "It's their right",... but it's also their right not to go to theses places. Police don't want to enter a school where there are 15 people running around the halls with guns... creating confusion in the search for the real shooter. They see a gun, you're going down. You're in a Gun Free Zone... Guns just don't belong around children in public places. For anybody that thinks guns are protected by the Constitution,... your "well regulated militia" duties aren't needed in a school or crowded public place. There ain't gonna' be a sinister government overthrow happening there, or an attack by invaders, or whatever you think. So your right isn't protected there... [/quote] Great! Now you have quoted a part of the Second Amendment. The RIGHT of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Now, either you believe that the founders created an amendment that conflicts with itself, or, you're forced to acknowledge that the Right to carry for self defense isn't up for argument. Which is it? |
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Title: Re: Is it time? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/05/18 at 13:29:38 protected by the Constitution,... your "well regulated militia" duties aren't needed in a school or crowded public place. Really? Then why do the places where armed people are illegal keep getting shot up? |
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